2012 Archived Messages

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January 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 February 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-29
March 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 April 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
May 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 June 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
July 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 August 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
September 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 October 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
November 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 December 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31

1—7 October

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Fwd: Importation of orchid plants in vitriol
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 03:10

Thought about importing some Disa flasks from Cape Town, but although Cites is not needed a phyto cert is required. I sent off for info. And got the following. The subject line is theirs as well.
I had to tell them that vitriol is an old term for sulphuric acid! And in vitro would be more correct.
List has been quiet lately.

Peter Fowler

Begin forwarded message:

> Hello Peter,
> You would still require a phytosanitary certificate to import the
> sterile Orchid seedings. This should be issued by the plant health
> authorities in the country of origin and tells us that the plant
> material has been inspected and found free from pests and diseases.
> The procedures for clearing consignments of restricted plants with UK
> customs are summarised below:
> * You will need to pre-notify your import using the electronic
> PEACH system before arrival. This notification should be at least 4
> working hours if brought in by air and in all other cases (including
> ship) at least 3 working days. You can register with PEACH at:
> http://ehmipeach.defra.gov.uk/. If you need any help registering or
> entering the information on PEACH you should contact the PEACH helpdesk
> on 0845 607 3224).
> * After you have completed the notification fax a copy of the
> phytosanitary certificate(s) together with a copy of the
> invoice/delivery note/airway bill etc to: 01904 352200 or by email to:
> phyto.york@fera.gsi.gov.uk (if arriving at Heathrow or Gatwick fax to
> 0208-538-2762 or email phyto-heathrow@fera.gsi.gov.uk) − this is so we
> can carry out document and identity checks. Please make a note of the
> PEACH Reference Number on the cover sheet of the fax or header of the
> email.
> * You will need to print off a Quarantine Release Certificate
> (QRC) from the PEACH system and fax or email this to Customs (they will
> no longer accept a phytosanitary certificate). The QRC will only be
> available on PEACH once the necessary physical inspection and
> documentary/identity checks have been completed with no problems found.
> * Finally, the original phytosanitary certificate should be posted
> to The Food and Environment Research Agency, Room 10GA01, Sand Hutton,
> York, YO41 1LZ no longer than 3 days after the consignment is landed.
> Restricted materials will be subject to inspection and
> documentary/identity checks by Defra on arrival in the UK and there will
> be charges related to these activities. For details please see the Defra
> website at:
> If you need any further advice, please let me know.
> Paul Rambridge
> The Food and Environment Research Agency
> Rm 10GA02/04
> Sand Hutton
> York
> YO41 1LZ
> Email: paul.rambridge@fera.gsi.gov.uk
> Web: www.defra.gov.uk/fera
> Tel: 01904 465616 Fax: 01904 465628
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
> -----Original Message-----

> From: Peter Fowler
> Sent: 01 October 2012 09:43
> To: Rambridge, Paul (FERA)
> Subject: Importation of orchid plants in vitriol
> Dear sir, I am aware that you do not require CITES papers, for orchid
> seedlings that have been propagated in the laboratory. Do you require a
> phyto cert. for sterile plants. I would have thought not, as any
> disease would grow on the nutrient agar and the flasks would be
> incinerated.
> Only clean plants would be used. Could you please let me know what ,if
> anything , is required to import the sterile seedlings into the UK.
> Regards
> Peter Fowler, UK


From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: Importation of orchid plants in vitriol
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:40

Well, to be fair, vitriol is a fairly easy typo when vitro is meant. In fact if using a new-tangled thing like my iPad, the programme will choose a suitable word actually in its dictionary and substitute it for what you actually typed − and if you don't spot it in time, some real howlers transpire ! I have seen dead robins when I typed dendrobiums.....

Btw I am registered for peach − if that helps ?


Sent from my iPad


From: Peter Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: Importation of orchid plants in vitriol
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 11:15

Hi All,

I have the strong feeling that they make it as difficult as possible to
annoy people and stop them from importing plants.




From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Quiet posts.
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 11:30

I agree Peter, very quiet, but I suspect it is the summer months that have us all working like stink making hay whilst the sun shines! .yes we did have a modicum of sun!

I ve been taking some photos of a few orchids that are in flower at the moment. Not as good as Geoff s but I m pleased with getting them to flower.

I ll try to get them posted tonight, this is simply a coffee-break!

Tony G.

Peter Fowler wrote: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: Importation of orchid plants in vitriol

[...] List has been quiet lately.


From: Richard Baxter
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Quiet posts.
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 19:15

I have recently obtained a Macbook Pro, so trying to operate that is a change after faithful Windows, so a quiet time too.


From: John Dennis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: Importation of orchid plants in vitriol
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 20:35

Hi Peter,
There is apparently still a lot of work involved importing the flasks, but it could be very worthwhile. Perhaps I could help you with the cost and we could share the plants at deflasking time.
John Dennis

Sent from my iPad


From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: P1010685, P1010689, P1010691, P1010681
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 21:20

As promised, just a few photos of blooms out at the moment.

The pleione is Pl. Confirmation. This photo was taken 5 or 6 days ago and
there is much more mauve colour on the petals now. I'll have to take another
shot to get a contrast!

There were one or two more, but I'll re-photograph and put names to them

Tony G.

P.S. How are you regarding your eyes now Geoff? Oh! And 'your' Phrag.
Sedenii is flowering, but only on one stem! How do you get multiple flower


From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: Importation of orchid plants in vitriol
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 08:40

Hi John.....Hildegard may be coming over from Cape Town sometime . She would then bring over some Disa flasks. Thanks for the offer .

Peter Fowler


From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: Importation of orchid plants in vitriol
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:45

I would not go so far as to impute a desire to stop importation. But I do think that the average civil servant is quite clever but has no common-sense. I also think that Government has little or no control over what they actually do . This is why Ministers including the (any) Prime Minister make speeches , and we all say "jolly good − that needs doing" and then it never happens. The civil service obfuscates, delays, impedes, ... And then there is a new Minister, or a new Government and it gets forgotten.
How many Governments have talked about sweeping away red tape, and (also, as a separate matter) increasing world trade. And what happens ? 12 forms instead of one, ever increasing fees − now over 70 for one CITES permit , when common-sense would scrap the whole system, and demand just a phyto' and maybe an export permit − putting all the cost and work on those who want to sell to us, instead of more than duplicating all the work and bother, and worse.
Sent from my iPad

On 2 Oct 2012, at 11:16, "Peter Hieke" wrote:

> Hi All,
> I have the strong feeling that they make it as difficult as possible to annoy people and stop them from importing plants.
> Regards
> Peter


From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fw: disas
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:05

Thought you might be interested in Disa price list.
Do not require CITES but the Phyto cert. is very long winded.
Peter, Alton

----Original Message-----

From: J & H Crous
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:36 AM
To: Peter Fowler
Subject: Re: disas

No problem Peter,
I can also send the plants as I send them to America, in sterile polyprop testtubes in liquid medium. That does away with the cites problem entirely.
The phyto costs R390, and is sent with the flasks.
hope this solves everything,

----- Original Message -----

Dear Hildegard Thank you for your email. The big problem is that they are not in flasks and therefore require CITES papers, which are very expensive in the UK. I know it is silly needing CITES for plants fresh out of flasks or maybe the rules have changed and it is OK to send to the UK. It is a long time since I imported plants from abroad.
Maybe there is a way we can get around it , although I certainly would not want you to break any rules.
If you could let me know if you have exported any seedling to the UK and what paperwork was required.
I look forward to your answer.
Peter Fowler, UK

----- Original Message -----

Hi Peter,
apologies, I have had alot of visitors this weekend, − together with the usual flurry of spring,
the days just don't seem to contain enough hours!!
At the moment I have available:

5 plants disa barbata @R150 each
disa cardinalis @ R45 each
disa racemosa @ R45 each
disa racemosa alba form @R65 each
disa Pink Pride @ R65 each
disa uniflora (pink worcester mtn form) @ R75 each
disa bivalvata @ R65 each
disa uncinnata @ R65 each
disa Coconut Ice @ R65 each
3 plants disa kewensis 'OudePost" (yellow form) @R65 each
satyrium muticum @R65 each

As I prefer to send the plants flat packed in sterile sphagnum moss, they are priced individually.
Let me know which ones you would be interested, I then make up a pro-forma invoice including packaging
and postage costs.
I send the plants per airmail, it usually takes 5 -7 days to the UK.
For payment we do have a speedpoint terminal in the office, so you can pay by credit card,
or I am registered on PayPal, some clients prefer to pay with this rather.
If you are looking for something specific, eg, other colour forms of disa uniflora, other species, etc.
let me know and I will let you know when they are available,
Hildegard Crous


From: Bill Haldane
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Recent Flowerings
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:40

Hello All,
Following are pictures of some recent flowerings to brighten up the dull
days of Autumn.
a) and b) Phrag. 'La Vingtaine', unusual in the scale of
floriferousness. The plant has four flowers and eight buds. The first
flower, which has already gone, was 142mm across.
c) Lycaste Memoria 'Olga Anton'
d) Phrag. 'Bel Royal'
e) Lycaste ' Lucianii'
Hope you enjoy them.
Regards Bill


From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Recent Flowerings
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:45

La Vingtaine is absolutely stunning − the first kovachii type I have seen which I actually covet !
If I see any plants on offer at Writhlington, at less than a second mortgage, I shall be seriously tempted.
Thanks for showing me this , al though my bank manager won't join in.


Sent from my iPad


From: brian.gould83
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Vanda Coerulea
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:25

I posted this plant on orchid talk on 22/8/2012.It has been to Dinton Pastures and the Bournemouth Autumn Show and is still in absolutely perfect condition. For aVanda plant is this unusual as I thought the flowers lasted about a month at best and it is now October 5th
Regards, Brian


From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Quiet posts.
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:55

I keep thinking about some kind of Mac − in fact do a lot of things on my iPad....which is perhaps why I have been quiet here, since I don't do pics on it. (Could of course, but life is too short to go to all the trouble involved )
My orchid world has moved on, as it often has over the past many years. I'm getting a bit bored with big "in yer face" vandas − well that phase has lasted a long time − I gave up trading in them (which I only did for a couple of years anyway ) in 1992' so more than 20 years.
I'm getting back to pleurothallds, masdevallas etc, whilst continuing my interest in the smaller vandaceous stuff, and catasetums and their allies are the new interest

I went back, at least made a fresh start with hydroponics a couple f years ago, and now have the first Paphs in bud in the system, some from a flask , where others from the same flask are growing more conventionally, and the first of those to bud is at the same stage. I am also trying a few vandas in it − too early to say whether that's good or not.

I have corresponded with some guys in USA who use the system for cattleyas, with success, but they seem very slow to settle in. It's all a matter of roots of course.

I will pst some pics soon, maybe by the week-end, but after that I'm in your area- well, almost, walking in the Peak District with my club.

Sent from my

On 2 Oct 2012, at 19:19, "Richard Baxter" wrote:

> I have recently obtained a Macbook Pro, so trying to operate that is a change after faithful Windows, so a quiet time too.
> Richard


From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: more photos
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:15

As promised a few more photos.....this time with names!

P1010681 Phalenopsis veltina
P1010689 Burragara scarletta
P1010699 Pleione "Confirmation" The petals have developed a deeper mauve
shade over the past 10 days.
P1010700 Ceratostylis rubra

I've just set up a humidity system in my Orchid house (Simply Control,
Perthshire) and whilst I am still experimenting with the positioning of the
spray nozzles as well as timing and 'set point', the plants do seem to be
enjoying the change of climate. Following on from Geoff's comments on
Vandas, mine are developing some good root systems now and I'll have to
seriously research the feeding regime in order to stimulate flowering.

I've had a disastrous year with the cool growing Pleiones, (Confirmation is
a warmer growing variety which stays with the orchids in the warmer part of
the greenhouse). I suspect that a late frost (-9C) just after I started
giving more water was the cause. I had no heat in the section used for
these, however other growers in my area who had frost-free greenhouses have
not had any losses. A lesson to be learned I think! Anyone else had problems
with Pleiones this year?

On with the Battle!!

Tony G.


From: Geoff
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: First a couple of no-flowering subjects...
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:00

Have you ever really seen what virus can do ? If not, it can be a
temptation to dismiss it as a bit over-blown , exaggerated ....
Here is a Cattleya loddigessii – nice form, good colour,
largeish flowers. Grown 'naturally' for coming up to 4
years now. Leads up to 3, best flower count ( in the past) 5 on a spike.
Then this year – disaster, No warning, no obvious rings on the
leaves, just colour breaks all over the place, and deformed flowers..
Ugh !.
No ashes – its the only way !

ON a more cheerful note , here are some Cattleya intricata seedlings
ex-flask about 18 months ago, growing naturally. Best bulb now up to
about 4cm, but every growth is a big step up. One advantage here is that
I may end up with several flowering plants all on the same mount
– which is of course possible if you put adult plants on
– but a bit cost prohibitive to do it that way, in my opinion.
Of course I have to wait, but I do get pleasure from just looking at
these plants every time I handle them.
First a couple of no-flowering subjects...



From: Geoff
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: and then a few flowers in September
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:10

and then a few flowers in September
https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid66cc6b7e29550ebd&pagebrowse&resid66CC6B7E29550EBD!610&type5&authkey!AFSWDX1kT6iwBrU&Bsrc Photomail&BpubSDX.Photos

In order ; Aerangis brachycarpa. I have recently accumulated some 15
species of Aerangis, mostly bought as NFS seedlings from various
European dealers, and current;y have half a dozen or so in spike ;
mostly with two spikes. But I do find the spikes rot off, if given the
same treatment as when growing, so I have had to move the to a drier
windier zone – and have only actually lost 2 or 3 spikes
– crossed fingers. Amazing perfume, at night .

Aerides , probably falcata ; these Aerides are very hard to name
accurately, and most dealers names are wrong, it seems. We lack a good
book on the genus, but one requires a bit more taxonomic knowledge than
I have, although compiling it would be great fun – visiting the
herbaria of a few Eastern countries etc... maybe its a task for my next
decade, when I slow down a bit...

Ascovandoritis Thai Cherry. Flowers a bit bigger than most straight Ascd
crosses, due to Vanda Rothschildiana in the background.

Aspms Everglades x Miltonia ;, Bluntii ( The Aspms is an intergeneric
with Aspasia in it ).

Two pics of Bulbo laxiflorum , which I have shown before – I
liken it to bunches of sparklers – the indoor fireworks I had as
a child. Nine spikes this year – all in a 5 inch pan with less
than an inch depth of compost.

Two pics of the white Den. monoliforme ( a USA awarded form of this ).

Another dendrobe – this one is griffithianum, which is in Sect.
densiflora, and needs resting for about 300 days of the year – I
exaggerate – but it does need very little water unless actually
in growth, if you are to see flowers- and they are proving to be a bit
longer lasting than I had expected , perhaps because the plant is a bit
happier now with my treatment.

Doritanapsis Kenneth Schubert. Lovely small phallie type. I
don't grow the biggies.

Next a couple of Liparis species – the red one is crenellata,
the green one is viridis which somehow found its way from a fallen tree
somewhere out east, into my sponge bag (joke).

The Masdevallia was bought under the name Belle Vallia – not
found in any Register – but seems to be doing well , quite
against all odds in my vanda/cattleya conditions !

Then two pics of what was a NOID until I suddenly realised that it is
the same as another plant I flowered two months earlier – which
is a cross between Holcoglossum amesiana and Neofinetia falcata
– and I don't know the proper name for that ? The
originators call it it a vandetia, but I don't think this is
official ?– and the specific part is Newberry Jasmine –
it is one of Carter & Holmes crosses, and the jasmine bit refers to the

Two pics of the tiny Octomeria gehrtii – I love plants which
keep on flowering from the same cane every year until the cane finally
withers from old age ; only small, true ( say 8 or 9 mm ) but hung up
above my head , and I look up and see all these golden starts –

A couple of Paphs – Caroline Hands ( which is moquettianum x
roth' – named for my mother, RIP ) and a Transvaal which
I call 'Jewel Box' to distinguish it from two other
named clones in my possession , one of which is an AM clone, but the
difference between them is miniscule – I don't think I
could tell you which is which if you lined them all up, all in flower at
the same time, which does not often happen anyway.

And finally, Ascofinetia Twinkle – which is Neofinetia falcata x
a very small yellow orange Ascocentrum (miniatum).

This a month's flowers – apart from ones you have seen
many times before, or which I didn't get around to snapping for one
reason or another.



From: Peter Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] and then a few flowers in September
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:00

Hi Geoff,

Your NOID -1 IS Sedirea Japonica x Vanda amesiana



From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] and then a few flowers in September
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 22:45

You are quite right Peter. The actual name is Vandirea Newberry Jasmine. I knew that all along, I just forgot it when doing the mail.
Its the Vand bit which annoys me. Vanda amesiana never did look like a real vanda, any more than vanda teres did, and Christenson moved it to Holcoglossum 35 years ago. Sedirea japonica got its name 38 years ago − being an Aerides before then. So why did Carter & Holmes use two out of date names when they registered the hybrid ? And why did the registrar let them ?
Maybe it is because it is so wrong, is the reason why I keep forgetting it !


Sent from my iPad

On 6 Oct 2012, at 13:04, "Peter Hieke" wrote:

> Hi Geoff,
> Your NOID -1 IS Sedirea Japonica x Vanda amesiana
> Peter


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