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2012 Archived Messages


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MONTHDATEDATEDATEDATEMONTHDATEDATEDATEDATE
January 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 February 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-29
March 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 April 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
May 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 June 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
July 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 August 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
September 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 October 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
November 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 December 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31

January 1—7

From: Pankaj Oudhia
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Medicinal Orchids
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 04:20

Dear Members,

I am India based researcher engaged in documentation of Traditional
Medicinal Knowledge about flora and fauna. At present writing a book on
Medicinal Orchids in India based on my surveys in different parts of India.
Through this group I wish to interact with the members working on Medicinal
Orchid and share my experiences.

Although reference literature give very superficial information about
Medicinal Orchids but the Traditional Healers (more appropriately the
Traditional Orchid Experts) practicing Orchid based Herbal Formulations
have in depth knowledge and major part of this knowledge is still in
undocumented form.

regards

Pankaj Oudhia

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From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Medicinal Orchids
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:10

Welcome to the group, Pankaj. Your area of interest in orchids sounds
fascinating and I look forward to reading more.

I do hope that orchids used for medicinal purposes are cultivated and
not simply taken from the wild.

Regards,

--

Tricia

Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.

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From: Peter Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Bulbophyllum nocturnum
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:25

Happy New Year to All,

go to google.com and type in Bulpophyllum nocturnum and then read in
Wikipedia the write-up about this orchid. It is a new dicovery of 2011.

Peter

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From: Peter Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: First flower of 2012
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:50

Hi All,

Angraecum magdalenae is the first flower of 2012. I have this plant
since 1995 and it flowered for the first time in 1996 with two
floweres. Now it is the first time with 3 flowers. I'm quite happy
about that.

Peter

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From: Geoff
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] First flower of 2012
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 12:15

What is it growing in Peter ?

Geoff

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From: Pankaj Oudhia
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Medicinal Orchids
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:45

Thanks Tricia for your interest. I am documenting Traditional Medicinal
Knowledge about Medicinal Orchids from two decades and interacted with
thousands of Traditional Orchid Experts in India. All of them are using
wild orchids as medicine.

In Indian metros, Orchids are cultivated for flower market, not for
medicine in general.I see it as big vacuum. There is tremendous scope to
train the Traditional Orchid Experts for Orchid cultivation so that
pressure on its wild population can be minimized.

In general cultivated species are considered less effective in terms of
disease treatment and wild species are considered more effective. Hence it
is big challenge to demonstrate the Traditional Orchid Experts that
cultivated orchids are equally effective.

regards

Pankaj Oudhia

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Tricia Garner wrote:

> Welcome to the group, Pankaj. Your area of interest in orchids sounds
> fascinating and I look forward to reading more.

[...]

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From: Peter Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] First flower of 2012
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 07:10

Hi Geoff,

It is in my standard mix of polystyrene and sphagnum moss.

Peter

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From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Medicinal Orchids
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 09:20

Hello Pankaj,

This is a most interesting subject... And something I know nothing about, to tell you the truth. Can you tell us of some of these medicinal orchids? Like the names of the plants and what are their suposed medicinal effects?

Many thanks,

Francis

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From: Pankaj Oudhia
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Medicinal Orchids
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 18:40

Thanks Francis for your interest.

The Traditional Orchid Experts (TOE) of different parts of India use
Medicinal Orchids through different methods. The TOE of Central India use
Medicinal Orchids in form of Herbal Formulations. Medicinal Orchids are
added as Primary, Secondary and Tertiary ingredients. Primary ingredients
play direct role in disease management whereas Secondary ingredients play
partial role in treatment and important role in enhancing the performance
of Primary Ingredients. Tertiary ingredients support Primary and Secondary
Ingredients. For example in Complex Herbal Formulation for Type II Diabetes
present as CHF15502 in my database is having 300 herbal ingredients
including one orchid species but TOE have named it as Medicinal Orchid
based Formulation because among 299 herbal ingredients main role is played
by Medicinal Orchid. Living with medicinal orchids since time immemorial
the TOE know how Medicinal Orchid interacts with remaining 299 herbs inside
the formulation and also outside in Mother Nature's Experimental Fields.

Medicinal Orchids are also used as single remedy both internally as well as
externally but the TOE prefer mixture as they have unique thinking that use
of Orchids alone may increase the pressure on natural population and in
coming time its availability may reduce.

There are few research papers available with us giving typical
Ethnobotanical survey results like Orchid A in diarrhea, B in Diabetes and
so on. It is good from academic point of view but in ground when it is
question of life and death the TOE have to rely on Traditional rules
strictly.

I have tried to document the knowledge in its original form. Original form
means case by case documentation from one week to 5 years. I have
documented a lot but still it is endless knowledge. We have to encourage
the entire generation to honor the TOE and document their knowledge.

regards

Pankaj Oudhia

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From: Richard Baxter
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Coconut husk
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 19:30

What successes, or failures, have people had using coconut husk instead of Bark as compost?
It has been around for a while now so I wonder what peoples' experiences are. I gather Ray Creek's is particularly pure stuff.
I am having real problems getting decent Bark. I use Melcourt, but availability is difficult. Living in Newark, the closest distributors are either in York or Evesham − either is about 90 miles each way. Burnhams will send a 70 litre bag for £25 plus £9.99 carriage on each bag, but I think York might do it for £15 each and as many bags as I like for a single £15 carriage.
I can get Rexius from my local Society, but I find that is extremely difficult to keep damp for my Odontoglossums.
This is not getting any easier, hence my exploring coconut.

Richard

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From: brian.gould83
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchids in flower
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 22:10

The plants are cymbibium Khan Flame "April" Catt "Sir Jeremiah Colman" White Vanda(anyone know the name) and Catt Big Ben "Blue Mountain".All are in the same greenhouse which is kept at 54f.
I sent these photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 6.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopelwin/

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From: Geoff
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 08:15

I am interested in this topic ;I have bought direct from Melcourt, who required a minimum order of 100 then. It keeps perfectly well stacked in the garage ! But now they won t deliver less than a complete lorry-load which is too much for me. I have been buying from Burnham, and if I get them to take it to a show for me, there is no carriage cost, but it is a lot more than 15 per bag !

I have used Ray C reek s small particle size CHC ( Coconut Husk chunks) and did a careful trial of this comparing it with a similar size Melcourt seedling bark, on deflasked plants in my propagator which are repotted every 3 months btw. There was no doubt at all in my mind that bark was far superior, much better growth rates.
I have also used large chunk CHC coming from the big Dutch firm who supply a lot of the orchid factories and have a list of composts and ingredients as long as your arm I used this large stuff for my Vandas , and whilst this was not by any means a controlled experiment, I have no doubt that the growth has not been quite what I expect , in fact I have recently scrapped 4 or 5 of the older Vandas , ones I have had for 20 years or more, and every one of them has been in CHC , none in just chunky bark.. Nuff said !
I should be very interested to have the York details, Richard although the cost to Dorset might be rather different.
Fortunately , my usage is much diminished now that I have all of my Cattleyas and Oncidiums etc in Hydroleca, but even so, 10 inch pots for Vandas do eat up a lot of chunky bark !.
geoff

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From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:10

Richard,

I suggest you get a quote from George at Green-tech. I've just received an
order of Melcourt Bark from them and the prices were much cheaper than you
are quoting!

Tony G.

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From: Richard Baxter
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 11:50

That is interesting, Tony, because it is George at Green-Tech in York who I have been dealing with.
His price quoted for Orchid Bark 70L is £15.42 per bag, but for Growing Bark is £8.38 per 70L (both +VAT). I have to admit to using the Grow Bark in the past for my odonts and cymbidiums, which seem to be quite OK in that. I do sieve the stuff first to get rid of junk, but otherwise it seems fine for my methods. One has to economise somewhere these days to offset the cost of heating the greenhouse.

Geoff, the York place is one of the suppliers on the Melcourt site www.green-tech.co.uk. These days Melcourt does not seem to offer a direct supply method to amateurs. I was interested in your observations about CHC because I have also read an article at http://www.ladyslipper.com/coco3.htm which sings CHC praises.

I suppose the demise of good bark is going to hit us all sooner or later. I would be a fool to switch completely in one go, so I might try my own controlled tests on both when the 2012 re-potting season starts.

Richard

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From: brian.gould83
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 20:50

Hello Richard,
Why do you not use rockwool as it is the perfect medium.I have used rockwool on seedlings of paphs straight out of the community pot they grow very well.The same rockwool is used on 5 to 10 ltr pots.In this medium you can grow cymbidiums,paphs,miltonias,odonts,dendrobiums,masdevillas,cattleyas and phrags.Everything I have tried in rockwool has succeeded.As a member of bournemouth and Wessex orchid societies more awards are given to plants grown in rockwool than in bark in the last year at their spring/autumn shows.When you consider that very few people in the societies use rockwool it shows how good the product is.Try it and be amazed at the results.
Brian

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From: brian.gould83
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchids in flower
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 21:05

All these plants are grown in rockwool. 1paph Wayne Booyh 2phrag Grande 4n 3catt old whitey seedling 4odont Avranches
I sent these photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 6.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopelwin/

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From: Max Redman
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Coconut.
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 23:40

Richard asks about the merit of coconut fibre/pieces for the growing of
orchids.

Out here in Australia it is becoming very difficult to obtain good bark and
consequently a large number of growers are turning to the use of coconut.

I have been using it for a couple of years and find that although there are
some orchids that do well in it there are also some which do not like it at
all, I generally use a mix of bark and coconut along with some stone. I
find that this works very well. I use roughly about 1/2 bark, 1/4 coconut
and 1/4 stone .

The thing to be aware of with the coconut , is that it requires a thorough
washing and soaking in at least two changes of water. Of course, I am
talking about the coconut we get out here and I do not know what the one you
are looking at is like.

Ours comes in blocks that make up to about 60litres and some have fertiliser
in and some do not. Personally I prefer the one without as I like to know
just what my plants are getting.

I hope that this helps and if there is any thing else I can tell you ,
please let me know.

Cheers
Max

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From: Richard Baxter
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 09:50

Thanks, Brian.
I do keep a very large bag of rockwool in stock which I use more as an additive than as the main medium. For instance, Phragmipediums have a basis of rockwool with bark added to keep it a bit more open, whereas Masdevallias & Restrepias have a basis of bark with rockwool and perlite added. I did try pure rockwool cubes a few years ago for Phragmipediums, but found it went stale and smelt. Having said that, I note that plants from the Foundation are extensively in rockwool, so perhaps I need to experiment with rockwool a bit more this year.
Richard

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From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:10

Hello Richard − I havent seen melcourt bark and wonder if it is a
particular type of bark or an extra quality?
I usually get a big plastic sack from ratcliffes at the annual NEOS show
at Tatton but a common complaint from friends is that more and more bark
comes with wood splinters in it.
Regards, Alex

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From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchids in flower
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:10

Brian I have just bought some Epiphoam, do you know it and if you do would
you consider it the same as rockwool?
Regards, Alex

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From: Richard Baxter
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:15

Alex
Melcourt is a firm which produces many kinds of bark for different
purposes − everything from plants to mulching. You can see them at
www.melcourt.co.uk . I had not thought of Ratcliffes, but I don't see them
on the local circuit around here.
Richard

Alex wrote Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk

> Hello Richard − I havent seen melcourt bark and wonder if it is a
> particular type of bark or an extra quality?
> I usually get a big plastic sack from ratcliffes at the annual NEOS show
> at Tatton but a common complaint from friends is that more and more bark
> comes with wood splinters in it.
> Regards, Alex

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From: Sheila Bicknell
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchids in flower
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:55

Alex. Just jumping in here, I'm sure Brian will respond but I'm not sure if
he is aware of 'Epiphoam' and its make-up. When Brian talks of Rockwool, he
is referring to absorbent rockwool in 1cm cubes, Epiphoam is a mixture of
soft cotton wool type rockwools and chopped horticultural foam blended
together to give both good water and air retention, and good drainage. I
have used Epiphoam as is, and also with 1cm cubes and more foam added for
growing my Cymbidiums for over 20 years and cant imagine growing in anything
else.
Regards, Sheila

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From: brian.gould83
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: epiphoam
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:30

To Alex
I have never used epiphoam but I have seen the product.I would appreciate
the positive aspects of the epiphoam but rockwool hold the fertiliser for a
short while allowing the uptake of fertiliser by the plant before draining
away.I would consider epiphoam to be far better than bark as when you use
bark one does not know how much fertiliser is taken up by the plant and how
much is absorbed by the bark. This is the problem of all growers using bark
and when you consider that bark varies so much in quality that I wonder why
people even use bark. It is about time that the old guard in orchid
societies opened their eyes and took onboard the positive aspects of newer
composts.
Brian

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From: brian.gould83
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: rockwool
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:55

To Richard
Rockwool and bark are not compatable.You either use one or the other ie one holds fertiliser the other does not.Try using 1cm cubes as a base and then if yourplants dry out quickly then add some wet rockwool(this is like cotton wool and you use it in your mix to get the required wetness for your particular plant type)ie cymbids paphs or whatever.In the old days rockwool was a hit and miss affair and my brother lost a stunning collection of cymbidiums to rockwool.(Yes be was absolutely distressed) Now rockwool will become the number one medium within the next ten years and deservedly so as people fully understand fertiliser uptake by plants.
Brian

Richard Baxter wrote Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk

Thanks, Brian.
I do keep a very large bag of rockwool in stock which I use more as an additive than as the main medium. For instance, Phragmipediums have a basis of rockwool with bark added to keep it a bit more open, whereas Masdevallias & Restrepias have a basis of bark with rockwool and perlite added. I did try pure rockwool cubes a few years ago for Phragmipediums, but found it went stale and smelt. Having said that, I note that plants from the Foundation are extensively in rockwool, so perhaps I need to experiment with rockwool a bit more this year.
Richard

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From: brian.gould83
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: More orchid photos
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 21:10

1my greenhouse now 2cymbid april seedling 3cymbid valerie 4yowie rose seedling.All plants are in rockwool Try growing in rockwool.

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From: Ed Deckert
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut.
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 21:10

Greetings,

I got curious about the coconut chips, did some searching, and found some
information at this link:
http://www.ladyslipper.com/coco3.htm

They make it clear that the chips must be soaked and drained several times,
and recommend using two chemicals in the second soaking to apparently help
get rid of leachable salts. A piece of the article is shown below.

Could someone comment on this? I am not an expert, in fact, I'm not even
remotely close to one.

Thanks,
Ed

To prepare the husk we first hydrate the bale in two 32 gallon containers at
least overnight , and then transfer the hydrated husk and excess water to a
second container that has had a large number of holes drilled into the
bottom, and about six inches up the sides. After the husk drains, a steady
stream of water is washed through until it appears to run clear from the
container. Then the husk is again transferred back to the solid container
and again covered with water with a few ounces each of Calcium Nitrate and
Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salts) added at least overnight. The draining and
washing procedure is repeated again using pure water, with the final rinse
being extensive. At this point measurements have revealed virtually no
significant leachable salts and a pH just slightly below neutral. The
conditioning with calcium and magnesium is done because of the moderate
Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) of the coconut husk. Sodium (Na) and
Potassium (K) ions are strongly bound to the CHC. Laboratory comparative
analysis of extracts of coconut husk products using distilled water versus a
barium chloride solution demonstrate that as much as 2/3 of the Na and K may
not be leached by water alone. What then happens is that you cation exchange
calcium and magnesium for sodium and potassium in your early fertilized
irrigations, creating possible calcium and magnesium deficiencies and sodium
and potassium excesses. If you irrigate heavily as we recommend, the problem
is quite temporary and limited. Unfortunately, it seems to be more and more
common to hear about people using less extensive irrigation practices, and
under these circumstances problems may arise. The addition of calcium and
magnesium in the wash stages allows for cation exchange to occur then,
creating a more balanced state from the start.

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From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchids in flower
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:55

thanks Sheila and Brian − I have just tried out my epiphoam on a small
paph and it is evident it is a mixture of grey, what looks like rockwool
of some kind and a fluffier foam. it certainly holds moisture and so I
will see how it goes. Reassuring that it gets a recommendation!
I suppose I am fairly typical in having plants potted in just about
everything but I cant help feeling I would be better off having all my
plants in one thing and learning their needs with at least one thing (the
compost) as a constant.
Regards, Alex

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From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coconut husk
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 17:10

Just looked at Melcourts site and its a big outfit with everything
possible that you can do with bark. I hadnt heard of it but I guess
Gloucester is a long way from Cheshire. The big problem is always the
carriage fee of course.
Regards, Alex

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From: brian.gould83
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: epiphoam
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 21:10

I hold my hands up,I am confusing epiphoam with the new sponge rock product.I appreciate the benefits of epiphoam and it would in my eyes be a usefull product.Now here is the problem.Ray Bilton would say that 1cm cubes of rockwool are non absorbent because of the air between the cubes.I know they hold water and are heavy after watering but they dry out very quickly.This is why Ray would add the heavy cotton wool type rockwool which comes in three gradesnonabsorb med absorb and heavy absorbent.Thisis available in 350 ltr compressed bags.I would think(guessing here) that the cotton wool type rockwool is the core product of epiphoam with non absorb foam being added .I use a mixture of 1cm cubes combined with the cotton wool rockwool to give a perfect balance for growing my orchids.when you consider that this mix is suitable for seedlings as well as large pots it is something that bark sadly lacks.The only problem with rockwool is that it is very unforgiving if unbalanced fertilisers are used as it holds nothing.Understand fertiliser and all orchids will be a joy.
Brian

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