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2010 Archived Messages


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MONTHDATEDATEDATEDATEMONTHDATEDATEDATEDATE
January 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 February 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-28
March 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 April 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
May 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 June 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
July 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 August 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
September 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 October 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
November 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 December 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31

January 1—7

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 03:05

Geoff,
Your plant seems to have the same curious problem that has become very
common over here on a variety of Phal's, but especially the newer
Taiwanese bred varieties. The basic problem is similar to mesoderm
collapse; plants will sometimes appear to recover, but new leaves will
eventually show the same symptoms. Some of the symptoms seem viral,
some bacterial, some fungal, but pathology assays suggest that these
are secondary infections. What you see as dust or fibers seems to be
healing calluses at sites of dermal opening. There does not seem to
be any consistent correlation with pests, though I have noticed a
higher incidence of flat mites on infected plants. The most common
association, not a correlation, seems to be with cool temperatures. I
have heard speculations of a possible response to low growing
temperatures or cool water used for irrigation, the argument being
that coolness may weaken a plant and cause it to be susceptible to
latent virus that is not normally lethal. I have also heard
hypotheses that the recent Taiwanese varieties are generally subpar on
genetic vigor with regard to environmental conditions when the plants
leave the optimal conditions of their originating greenhouses. I have
also heard a conspiracy theory that combines the idea of genetic
bottlenecking in the breeding programs with environmental
vulnerabilities, and that this is overlooked/ignored because the
plants are designed as one bloom house/office plants − the near-
ultimate to intentionally produced throwaway plants. Over the last
several years, I have corresponded or directly discussed these
problems with numerous Phal growers, including commercial growers, and
none have yet declared a "I know what it is and what to do"
scenario. It seems that nobody seems to know the cause, or if they
do there is a reluctance to provide information.

If you do learn something more or different, I would be interested.

Happy New Year!

Paul

On Dec 31, 2009, at 11:46 AM, geoff hands wrote:

> The plant is a species Phal – P.bastianii ( a link below would take
> you to the orchid species encyclopaedia page with the picture). It
> came from Nardotto .

> Today when watering I spotted what at first sight was dust or
> fibres – the sort you get from dried sphagnum moss before you
> re-wet it – on one leaf. But they wouldn’t wipe off.

> The plant is one of a hundred or more phals all together , and is
> the only one showing this – I have never seen anything like it
> before. I don’t think it can have been like this long , I overhaul
> my plants usually every week, but it could be two weeks since I
> last handled this plant , and nothing struck me then.

> You will note the faint brown edge to the leaf too , as well as the
> large areas of brown. All of the leaves have a definite edge of a
> slightly different colour , but all of the other leaves are all
> green and its merely a different green – darker.

> Also, many of the little hieroglyphic marks are associated with a
> slight bump or raised area.

> The underside of the leaf shows smaller areas of dark brown – and
> here it looks like a rot – something which has destroyed the cells
> inside the leaf leaving the outer layer of cells intact, even if
> now dead – whereas on the upper side, the brown areas don’t look
> dead. Maybe the rot – if that is what it is has destroyed all but a
> single layer of cells on the underside, but has left a few more
> layers on the upper side.

> What should I do ( the plant is of course isolated – quarantined in
> front of my computer). Cut it off ? Wait and see ? What is it
> anyway ?

> Geoff.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:35

Thanks to all who replied very helpfully on this subject.

For the moment it is staying on my desk, and I am sending a message to the
nursery where it came from ; whether I get any response is an interesting
question.

Usually, if there is a problem, the supplier can say it was OK when it left
me -and thus duck responsibility. But here, I think that it is a plant which
came from my last order − which was not long before Xmas.

The problem in ordering from many web-sites is that the e-mail does not go
through the usual system on my PC , so I can't find a copy in my "sent" box
; I don't always remember to keep a separate copy − in fact sometimes the
usual highlight/copy/open Word/paste routine doesn't work at all.

Maybe I'll ask them that first of all, then tell them why .

But otherwise − it's not false spider mite, otherwise known as Red Spider ;
that's easy to detect even if you don't have bionic vision to see them
without a magnifying glass. Wipe with moistened cotton wool on the underside
of the leaves − and the cotton wool comes off with a red stain. No red
spider on this plant for sure, and none in my greenhouse I am reasonably
sure . My normal humidity makes it unlikely , and the nearest orchards are 3
mile away ( don't live in the Vale of Evesham, if you don't like red
spider...a hundred thousand apple trees, or whatever he real number is,
means that you stand no chance ! ).

Viral ? Yes, I think so. The preceding leaf is pitted − suggesting the
double whammy , so it had the problem then, now worse − as a secondary
infection. Very probable.

A pity, I rather liked the look of this species − perhaps those Taiwan (?)
people who had all the phal species at Peterborough (?) will come again, and
I can get it from them..

Not the best way to start the New Year ; I think I'll go and water my catts
to cheer myself up , and take some new piccys whilst I'm at it.

A happy new year to you all.

Geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: FW: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:45

Following my message below, I discovered a pdf listing the plants on the
last order , so I have definitely only had it for weeks − it arrived just
before the cold weather started. So I have sent the pics to the supplier for
comment.

Geoff

> Thanks to all who replied very helpfully on this subject. .........

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:35

delspyes

Tony,

Thanks for that information! It appears that something of value was
actually missed by dropping the AOS subscription for awhile. If you
can provide the complete bibliographic citation I can get the article
through the library.

cheers,

Paul

On Dec 31, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Tony Watkinson wrote:

> I refer you to an article by Chin-An Chang in the Sept 2008
> the AOS Mag 'Orchids", page 668. I do have a scan of the article
> with pix but they are not too easy to read. The gist of the article
> is that these problems arise when the plant has both the Cym mosaic
> and the Odont ringspot viruses together. It's like a double whammy
> and brings out the worst of both.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:50

Geoff, I am not a biologist but about 12 years ago at the Living Rainforest our Amazonica Lily was attacked by mites. We were told it had been attacked by one of yhe 1600 species of tetranychidae ( hope that is correct − memory not as good now). Red spider mite is one of the species. Our water lily,(note water)was infested. We could not use insecticides due to fish so all we could do was continually burn the leaves as they were infected. It did not spread to other plants as it was specific to that Amazonica Lily.
I would revert to the drastic methylated spirit drench of the total plant 0root as well but keep it isolated.
Best of luck. Regards

--- On Fri, 1/1/10, geoff hands wrote:

> Thanks to all who replied very helpfully on this subject. For
> the moment it is staying on my desk, and I am sending a message to
> the nursery where it came from ; whether I get any response is an
> interesting question.
[Snip]

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:25

Paul, and any one else who has an opinion.

Why would anyone design or produce a "Flower once only Plant" orchid or any other plant. I wonder.Who would it benefit? The seller, Tesco for example probably sold/bought for and given as presents any way. The designer/grower/botanist, unlikely. So who would want to do it, and who would benefit?
Certainly we live in a throw away society and things are made that way by manufacturers for obvious reasons, but whether a grower/botanist/hortrocultrerist would spend probably years cultivating a plant species that wasn't a annual would and may spend years producing such a specimen is to me most unlikely. Certainly the bloom once only house/ office gift plant will only flower once as it does not live long enough to flower a 2nd time.
I often feel compassion for them as well as a mild degree of penitent feeling on behalf of the suffering plant.

Geoff, Your picture of Phal Bastianii 271 (32.0OKB) Looks to me like the underside of the leaf. Is it?

Best of health and good growing to all for 2010.

Ronbow.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:55

Hi Paul

I have attached two pages of the article and will attache the other two in another email. Sorry about the quality but you may be able to read it if you screw your eyes up.

Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:55

The third and fourth pages.

Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kenneth Bruyninckx
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 09:40

Hello Ron,

The answer is quite easy in my opinion.

Imagine that you grow as a producer 1 million Phalaenopsis with a lot of
competition from within the UK and abroad.

If you sold every plant within the UK that would mean that each year you
have 1 million people less to sell a plant to, no worries you think, there
are still 65 million people to go but unfortunately for you they do not
all like your Phalaenopsis hybrids!

If every one of your 1 million plants survived you would be in deep trouble,
as the people who like Phalaenopsis already HAVE a plant of yours, why add
another one?

If you were able to convince people that it is a 'flower once then dump'
type of plant then you could sell your Phalaenopsis to a large portion of
your initial customers over and over again and at the same time trying to
add new customers because you are most likely going to produce more and more
each year.

So who would do that?

The breeder (because he can patent it and hope to enforce it :-D), the
wholesale grower (because he has a winning crop), the complete
wholesale/distributor chain (because they need to sell plants to earn a
commission), the local supermarket/the florist (because people are looking
for cheap plants all of the time, the flowers last longer than a bouquet
;-)) in short all of them would profit from these extra 'flower once then
dump' sales.

This of course is in stark contrast with real orchid growers, the ones who
make a living from really growing plants and selling these to the orchid
enthousiasts. We'd like to hear stories about 'I bought a pant from you 20
years ago and it won first prize last week with a 1000 flowers on it'. Ok,
we will not be selling you another one of those, that's obvious, but because
you are pleased we may have something else to tempt you with ;-)

For most of the Phalaenopsis hybrids you would not even know who to commend
of complain to, you just bought it from supermarket abc or florist xyz and
you just KNOW they did not grow it, so why bother!

Have you ever looked at the small Phalaenopsis (less then 5 inches) being
offered today how large do you want them? It's all being reduced to
chemistry add a drop of product xyz for size, a drop or two for colour and
'bang' there is the next lot ready for Mothers day

Next they'll try, no doubt, to produce them with gigantic flowers on a small
plant in every colour you can imagine to match your furniture. J

Kind regards,

Kenneth.

Kenneth Bruyninckx

Akerne Orchids

Laarsebeekdreef 4, B-2900 Schoten, Belgium

tel. +32 (0)3 651 40 36 fax +32 (0)3 653 06 76

www.akerne-orchids.com

See us at the following shows and events in 2010:

*Orchidea 2010, Brussels, Belgium (February 5-7)
*London Orchid Show, London, UK (March 20-21)
*Orchiade, Leiden, The Netherlands (April 2-5)
*Danish Orchid Society 50th anniversary show, Denmark (April 9-11)
*Orchidee in centrO, Monte Porzio Catone, Italy (April 23-25)
*Orchidays 2010, Thieu, Belgium (May 13-16)
*Open Nursery Weekend, Schoten, Belgium (June 5-6)
*Expo L'Ami des Orchidées, Charleroi, Belgium (October 16-17)

Looking for orchid books and magazines? Visit
www.orchidbooks.eu

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Keeping detailed copies of online orders
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:10

Geoff wrote:

"The problem in ordering from many web-sites is that the e-mail does
not go through the usual system on my PC , so I can't find a copy in
my "sent" box ; I don't always remember to keep a separate copy − in
fact sometimes the usual highlight/copy/open Word/paste routine
doesn't work at all."

I too find the copy/paste routine doesn't always work as expected on
some sites − what I tend to do is take a screen shot of the details I
want to keep and save that to a specially created folder. If you do
it often enough it becomes second nature :-)

Happy New Year to all,

--

Tricia

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:30

It does look like the underside, but is actually the top side !

Geoff

Ron Bower wrote Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or
what ?

> Geoff, Your picture of Phal Bastianii 271 (32.0OKB) Looks to me like the
> underside of the leaf. Is it?

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:15

Hello Ron,
First, I will thank Kenneth for his reply. Though I may add that
during a Christmas period travel my wife and visited a number of
garden centers, nurseries, and commercial greenhouses. What to be
seen? Benches and benches and benches and benches. . . of glorious
monotony. Clones. Divisions. Or, otherwise identical or near
identical species and varieties of a wide variety of plants. This is
not relegated to just orchids, but also all those garden plants and
house plants that most of us see on a daily basis.

In one commercial production house that we visited there must have
been several hundred thousand plants, most intended for florist and
box store sales, not an atypical site in such facilities. There
simply are not a hundred thousand serious orchid growers out there.
If there was, Kenneth might be a wealthy nurseryman. Instead, Kenneth
and other orchid nurserypersons are fighting to keep their businesses
at status quo, and all but a few of those plants in that greenhouse
will be in somebody's trash bin or compose pile within the year and a
relatively small percentage of the original production will even be
purchased by someone with the intent of trying to keep it alive past
its original bloom period. Consider these lines from a Friday article
in the San Jose [CA] Mercury News about a local company that imports
Taiwanese Phal's:

"Clark [the U.S. seller] expects his company to sell about 2 million
orchid plants this year, up from about 1.5 million sold last year."

"Prices have plunged so fast, though [in recent years], that orchids
could become a commodity products, which happened to the poinsettia
industry and drove a lot of growers out of business, said Charles
Hall, an expert in international floriculture at Texas A&M University."

URL : http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14103306

Unfortunately, the development of rapid production, high volume
production, cloning, and genetic manipulation of orchids (and other
things) was in large part directed at inventing throwaway plants for
money making purposes. Satisfying us, the serious orchid growers, is
not on the minds of mass producers; heck, they would not even give a
thank you for a sale to a serious grower! Remember those Phal's at
the supermarket? Throwaways. They were not produced by a nurseryman
dedicated to a niche business, a limited customer base, or for
conservation purposes. Every Euro spent on one of these plants goes
to wealth production in a corporate system, often starting in Taiwan,
not in support of a dedicated specialist in a Belgian village, or
elsewhere.

Okay. Sorry! That started to get a bit ranting. Time to check on
the status of my greenhouse, then breakfast. This morning, a fine
sunrise into a clear sky, and reflecting off a deep snow cover.
Though, it is -24F at the moment and the high temp is predicted to
reach 0F. A -44F windchill last evening just north of us a bit.

cheers,

Paul

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:40

Kenneth,

H,mmm, very well put.

I will have to go and have a further think on this.

The best to you and all for 2010.

Ronbow.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:30

There is lot of truth here , neither Kenneth nor Paul will (perhaps) be
familiar with that great British institution, popularly known as 'Marks and
Sparks' , (Marks and Spencers) who have large shops in every British town (
often several shops) selling clothes, food, furniture and home furnishings ,
and some flowers and plants too ; but in my local very small 'Food only'
Marks store they are now selling nice phallys , good clean plants, at a
penny under five pounds , that's about 4 Euros the way things are going , or
8 US $. ( Not very much more than they sell for in the street market but
much better plants.)

I don't think that M and S are going to put any proper orchid nursery out of
business ; on the contrary, one in a thousand who buy these plants, grow
them and succeed, will turn to other orchids. 'Proper' orchid growers like
us will still go on growing 'real' orchids , a diet of nothing but sweeties
would soon become boring .

But personally I like to have flowers in my house , on my desk, on the
windowsill, on the mantelshelf ( except we don't actually have a
mantelshelf) on the coffee table etc....I do bring in plants from my
greenhouse, but in many cases they are phallys, just because they are so
well adapted to these conditions, and last and last and last...

But, philosophically, what's wrong with any of this ? Just don't include
them in your orchid thinking. And what if folk throw them away ? We are
all humans, we all do wasteful things, we are not ecological saints , it
keeps the world turning....

Geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: seven pics and notes
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:50

260 . I have been collecting Cattleya species for a year or two now , and
find them very rewarding. This one is C. Labiata var coerulea. Not a real
true blue, but then very few orchids are − the pigment here is an
anthocyanine it seems, quite different from the delphinase pigment of
delphiniums. The colour is a very delicate blush violet ; hardly visible at
all when the flower first opens − one merely thinks "that is not a very
clean white" − but it becomes a little more pronounced as the flower ages.
Size and shape wonderful ( to the infatuated eye ! ) for a species . Its a
good six inches − 15cm natural spread, a herbarium specimen flattened out
would be 3cm more than this. Very fragile almost ethereal − looks as though
it will only last a day or two, but already 2 weeks old and merely getting
slightly darker in hue. My plant has two leads, each with a single flower,
but I think that when better established it will do much better than that.

261 . Cattleya buffs will expect any rich dark luscious cattleya like this
to have one particular Carter and Holmes hybrid − Blc Oconee − in its
parentage, which it does. I think my pic does it justice ; the ones shown
in the Orchidwiz images page for this cross are pale and washed out
versions. Maybe the Orchidwiz editor did not believe the images received !.

Long lasting , a lot of substance here, and if anything darkening with age,
although perhaps losing a little of the fire as it does so.. If looking for
this one, you will find the same grex, but many different cultivars with
similar names − Bang Ching Tian , Bau Chang Tian, Pau Chi Ten − which I
suspect are different transliterations of the same Chinese language
characters. The other popular cv is New City , which I have but as a small
plant not yet up to FS.

262 a nice little species with two alternative names − Coelia ( correct
name − the file name above is a typo) or Botriochilus, and bella or bellus.
I grew a specimen plant of this, and took it to the RHS hoping for a CCC/RHS
- with 15 or so flowering growths − took it to London on the train − and
when I got there, the draughts when the carriage door opened and closed ( it
was December or January a few years ago) had made the flowers go off − and
you only get awards for plants in the very peak of condition. I split it up
after that, and the pieces are now starting to flower. As here.

263 Angraecum arachnoideanum . Not the most exciting of angraecums, but
worth a show , briefly...Of course it would be better with a dozen spikes,
but I doubt that I will be that patient.

264 Polystachya coriscensis − one of Kenneth's little marvels. Six spikes,
all in a 6cm pot. A curious little thing , worth a good look − preferably
with the plant in front of your nose and a magnifying glass.

265. Burrageara Stefan Isler used to be sold by everyone in the cv "Burning
Embers" . Now this is one of those plants that Paul and Kenneth were talking
about ; mass produced, rows of them to be seen, all identical ( thanks to
our Parisian friend who published his meristem process − invented for mass
producing virus free potatoes − back in the 60's ! ). Burning Embers long
ago went to dead ashes in my collection , not that it is a difficult plant
to grow , the same thing happened to many odont based hybrids in my
collection over the years. It keeps nurserymen in business providing
replacements . Whether I can keep Lava Flow, which I think came from
Nardotto, remains to be seen. Maybe I grow them better now ( crossed
fingers) and this plant of mine is producing branched spikes 60cm high, so I
am well pleased with it. Isler is I think a Swiss hybridist ;he is the chap
who lives on an island in one of the lakes near the Italian Swiss border (
Garda etc) I think − La Bella Isola or something like that − maybe the
isl;and is named after his family ? I went there once, to look at the
gardens, when on holiday in the Italian lakes, but didn't know about the
orchids at that time, or I would have asked to see the collection. He has
certainly produced a lot of hybrids using his family name − 18 at least
listed in Orchidwiz. Older growers ( longer-time growing ones, anyway)
will recognise Vuylestekeara Edna ( cv Stamperland) here and even older
ones, Oda Charlesworthii as the starting point of the blood line. − both of
which are still worth growing , if only someone would find them and
reproduce them again.

266 The Catasetum with the fantastic lip − 9 cm wide... I bought it at
Dresden with a spike of 7 flowers, going over ; the dealer only had half a
dozen, and they had all gone in 10 minutes. The flowers were dead when I got
home, they were none too fresh when I bought it. Then the leaves fell off ,
but that is normal for these plants, they are (often, but not invariably)
annually deciduous. Then quite quickly I had a new shoot, but it turned out
to be this spike. I cut the flowers off as soon as I had taken this pic, and
now have it dry waiting for, and hoping for a new growth. They can be a bit
choosy about whether to grow or die, until properly established in new
surroundings I find. Once they are going they are pretty easy. I have
another cv of the species − there are quite a lot of named varieties about -
and that other one is established and now starting its first spike. But I do
so hope this one won't turn up its toes.

Another 7 pics on the next mail; − kept down to avoid clogging up mailboxes
- I hope.

Happy New Year to you all.

Geoff.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: the other 7...
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 10:10

267 Renanthera bella . Flowers quite as big as the hybrid shown here today -
perhaps 6cm in the north-south direction , but a darker more crimson colour.
A ( non-branched, on this quite small plant ) spike of perhaps 15 flowers.

268 As I have said, these Brassavola species mounted on plaques and sprayed
daily seem to produce one new growth and spike after another , so that with
half a dozen or so plants representing 3 species I almost always have one
in flower. These are just opening and with more contrast between the tepal
colour and the lip colourthan I have seen before.

270 Bulbo laxiflora makes me think of sparklers − the little hand-held
fireworks my kids used to love at their birthday parties. What a charming
plant − with the lovely habit of flowering for successive years from the
same bulb. In a mere 4 or 5 inch pan I have 6 spikes ; the plant has only 7
or 8 bulbs and three of them are new and not yet flowering.

274 The hybrid dendrobium is nameless ; but I grow it using the name of the
grower who gave me a keiki some 10 years ago. Another thing which flowers
for year after year from the same cane. I stopped watering in mid September
and put it in the cold greenhouse ( used for tomatoes in the summer, and
chrysanths' later in the year ) and left it there until the temperature was
going down to 6 C on colder nights ; hence this display.

275 Ren Manila x phill' This plant was in flower last Xmas ( and won "best
plant" at my OS Xmas lunch table display ) ; flowered again in July , and
now again. The flowers now are better in size and shape , due to the extra
light it gets under my lamps. They can perhaps also take the credit for the
flowering frequency.

276. The oncidium species came from Ian Plested many years ago ; he thought
that it was 4n and certainly the bulbs are much bigger than the norm for
this species. It invariably produces 4 spikes per bulb and you only see part
of one spike here.

278. Not a thing to boast about , a mere 5 spikes from this mass of plant
some 75cm across and too heavy to lift. When hanging up, a couple of years
ago, it had over twenty spikes, with as many as 15 good at any one time -
and far better flowers than these too − much longer tails and more flowers
per umbel. But I feared the weight would bring it crashing down, and it
needed some repotting or something. When I got it down I funked it ; or
couldn't see what to do ; so I just sieved some compost on to it, which gave
it a great growing boost and it increased in size a lot . Then I put it in a
corner, and of course it is not getting the light it needs to flower, except
at one side. I shall have to grasp the nettle I think , take half a dozen
strands of rhizome with 4 or 5 bulbs on each ,and put in a new pan to start
all over; and the rest on the compost heap.

Cheers − its time to go and have some coffee.

Geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:40

Nardotto say that they think it is cold damage well I did take the risk having them sent in a winter month . If so, then the plant should grow a better leaf next time.

I shall put in my bathroom where it will be undisturbed and quarantined, and see what happens.

Geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] the other 7...
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:55

Geoff,

Fantastic plants, as usual. Regarding your Bulbo Elizabeth-Anne I would be mortified if you were to throw some of it to the compost heap!

I have tried this plant twice already, and in both occassions my plants have slowly died for no reason at all... Other bulbos do fine in my growing conditions, and last year I had Bulbo lowii with 8 beautiful flowering spikes (5 opened at the same time, and 3 later on).

If you decide to break it up into a few plants, I would be glad to buy some of it and give it another go!

Regards,

Francis

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From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:20

Geoff, That seems to make sense as eachscar looked identical. Please keep us informed as it can all be stored in the little grey cells (for a while at least)
Regards from a sunny -3C here in N. Devon

--- On Sun, 3/1/10, geoff hands wrote:
RE: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?

> Nardotto say that they think it is cold damage...

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From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] the other 7...
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 10:45

Let me have your address Francis and − when it warms up (!) I'll send you a bagful − you can send me the postage.

Geoff

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From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:00

Geoff,

Attached are three photos showing what may be a similar problem but this on an Angraecum hybrid which originated in The States and was bought from Lawrence Hobbs. I wonder which plant it was that was mentioned by David Martin? The strange 'hieroglyphs' on your Phally leaves seem to be very similar to those in the first two photos.

I've kept this plant slightly away from others in the Greenhouse and there has been no sign of any other plants with this problem. All plants get the occaisional drench with Provado and Armatillox ..... when I remember (must do it more regularly in 2010!). It does seem to be 'growing out' if you observe the third photo. It is interesting that I also do not have a problem with red spider mites in the house, so maybe it will grow out. There is a new growth at the side (which is not visible in the photos, so I will see what happens to that.

With respect to your other problem of "nibbled roots", I noticed this problem on (yet) another orchid in my collection. There was no way a mouse could have reached the point of destruction. However, I did find a garlic snail looking very healthy! ........................... It's not healthy now.!!!!

New Year's Greetings to All!

Tony G.

geoff hands wrote RE: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?

> Nardotto say that they think it is cold damage...

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From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:35

That cracking seen on Angraecum.1 and the holes on Angraecum 2 are surely places where the interior cells right up to the exterior leaf wall cells, have collapsed completely . That part I m sure of. So those cells died . Buy why ? That s the really difficult question !

However for myself, I didn t see the similarity of the hieroglyphs at all but then I have the benefit of still having the actual leaf to look at.

I think I mentioned previously that there were bumps, i.e. protrusions outwardly of the leaf in the vicinity of these , in many cases, and that does seem to agree with the idea of cold. If the water in the plant went below 4 (?) degrees, as I remember my schoolbook physics/chemistry, the fluid would expand, hence rupturing cell walls, and maybe leading to the hieroglyphics and the bumps. ( when I was a kid, most cold water pipes were lead pipes, and they used to burst when there was a thaw ; we were taught that they actually burst as the water froze, but we only became aware when the thaw came, since that was when the water started coming through the ceiling.

Growing out ; yes, I think a lot of what is blamed on virus is poor culture, and when the growing improves, the symptoms disappear. Or is it that the well grown plant is strong enough not be worried by the virus, and it s still there ? Who knows. If virus testing did not cost the same as the young plant, I d try it out ; but at say 12 a test, it hardly seems worth while. I have seen very misshapen laelia flowers not in my collection said to be the product of virus, but most plants I have suspected, in my whole growing life, when flowering have had perfectly normal flowers, and merely marks on the leaves.

Re the mouse, I never did catch one, or get the Rodine eaten ; I occasionally find the empty shell pea-sized of a snail, and even more rarely find one resting on the underside of a leaf. Garlic snails yes, but not very often, but probably they hide in the daytime. So could be.

geoff

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From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:20

Tony,

The plants I saw at Lawrence Hobbs were Phal's and the damage to the leaves was exactly the same as the damage on my Phal's. As I said , Lawrence had no idea what it was, and he didn't know he had plants in his greenhouse with the problem.

I said in my previous e-mail that I was told it was False Spider mite. That was discounted. Can anyone enlighten me because I thought false spider mite was very small and hard to detect unlike Red Spider which I am familiar with on my Cymbidiums.

David

tony garthwaite wrote Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?

> Geoff,

> Attached are three photos showing what may be a similar problem
> but this on an Angraecum hybrid which originated in The States
> and was bought from Lawrence Hobbs. I wonder which plant it was
> that was mentioned by David Martin? The strange 'hieroglyphs' on
> your Phally leaves seem to be very similar to those in the first
> two photos.

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From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Strange thing on phally leaves − a new pest, or what ?
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:30

I have done a little digging into the question ; it seems I was wrong in my thinking.

Actually, as far as I can discover, there are two different pests False spider mite and red spider mite. At least, googling these brings up pages about mites with different genera names but then, entomology is as bedevilled with taxonomy as any other life science we have to blame the invention of DNA for that leading to the discovery that things ain t what they seem not always anyway. Maybe they are both talking about the same thing.

However, from what is said, neither of these things is a spider ( I don t thing that any spider is a sap sucker [?] they are all insectivores, ( bird-eating spiders an exception) hence the possibility of using the word false . Both suck sap and at some stage in their life are red. Both live on the underside of leaves ( mostly) and eventually produce some kind of web hence the spider misbelief.

With a final larval stage and adult size of 0.3mm they are going to be hard to see, although there are some tips to spot them on the useful site at http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/mites.htm

Which just talks about spider mites which of the two, we don t know.

Also see the RHS pages no latin names for the beasties − http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid190

For more about the two, considered separately , if they are indeed two , see :-

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/O &T/flowers/note47/note47.html − false spider mites ; and http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid190 − Glasshouse red spider mite.

But I still think that a wipe with a clean damp cotton wool ball over suspect areas will show up something , if anything is there. Years ago when I used to suffer badly ( living in a fruit growing area) I used to find that Dendrobium nobile hybrids were the first to suffer − the undersides of the leaves would look quite grey and dirty from the webbing when the infection was bad. But like all pests, removal by wiping off with a damp tissue or cotton wool id a great start , and if there is nothing to wipe off, then there can t be anything there ! There was nothing to wipe from my phally leaf.

geoff

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From: N & T Burgess
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Bulb Elizaberth Ann
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:30

Geoff
If you have an extra few Elizabeth Ann I would love to have a piece.
Norma

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From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Bulb Elizaberth Ann
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:05

As I said to Francis, I will defer breaking it up until it gets a bit warmer
and then I will be able to send without risk. Let me know your mail
address, and I'll print it off, so that I don't forget.

This cold weather has to come to an end sometime ! We had our first snow
today , but its not enough to make the lawn white ; but I think that the
snow-free or only slight snow is a small area on the South Cast here, and if
I venture far I shall soon meet it.

Geoff

Norma wrote re: [OrchidTalk] Bulb Elizaberth Ann

> Geoff

> If you have an extra few Elizabeth Ann I would love to have a piece.

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From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Vascocenda Pine Rivers
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:40

This is the Vasco shown on November, in bud. It is now in full flower
on the windowsill with a white background...

Previous image (without snow!):
www.orchid-talk.co.uk/archives/2009/images/11november/pages/page8.html

Hope everyone is OK,

--

Tricia

Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

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From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Vascocenda Pine Rivers
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:45

An interesting picture. A very good spike ! I like your white background -
snow has some uses it seems.

But you have had some snow, haven't you ! I thought that your end of
Hampshire had copped it a bit ; we ( just outside Hampshire, into Dorset )
have only had one centimetre, although it has been cold ; minus 5 this
morning when I went out , but only another 7 miles inland it was minus 8.

geoff

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From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Bulb Elizaberth Ann
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:30

You would meet it if you came to Knutsford Geoff − minus 11 last night and
about 6 inches of snow frozen solid. And we have had 3 days without the
central heating since the 23rd Dec, not consecutively thank goodness. I
think my dormant pleiones will be all that survives.
Regards, Alex

Geoff wrote:

> This cold weather has to come to an end sometime ! We had our
> first snow today , but its not enough to make the lawn white ; but
> I think that the snow-free or only slight snow is a small area on
> the South Cast here, and if I venture far I shall soon meet it.

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