2008 mailing list messages

2008 Archived Messages

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From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Photos for the Clubs Website.
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008

Good point about adding the name on the piccy − come back Photoshop, all is
forgiven....

As to John's Living Fire, I am assuming "first flower" means on this spike,
rather than on the plant − since the other buds suggest a good spike,
unlikely for a first flowering seedling.

Strange, and a little unusual (?) to see more colour on the back than on the
front − maybe the flower will deepen in colour as it matures ? Be
interesting to know .....

The brilliant red − from besseae − gave Phrag hybrids a lot of lift and
increased interest in the genus; I assume that when we start to see kovachii
hybrids a bit more freely they will do the same .

However, I saw a talk by a well-known phrag grower recently , showing a lot
of slides , and to me − ( of course this is always a personal thing ) I have
to say that apart from a few botanical curiosities of the P. pierceii type,
I found his plants wonderful for the first few slides, and then increasingly
boring when I saw endless red flowers of similar shape and colour,
differering only in the announced name. I do grow a few of these, but this
is why I don't grow more, I guess.

> I must admit that I have rarely had a good look at the Club's Website that
> Tricia so expertly puts together and keeps updated. I especially had a good
> look at the photographs/images.

> Recently I have been putting the name of the orchid actually in the image,
> as does friend Rudolph Gunnel, AND, John Rupp. In fact it was John's image
> today of his fine Phrag that spurred me to write this E-mail.

> So, Tricia, it would appear to me that this naming of the orchid, or
> whatever, actually in the image would make your life much easier and have
> the name staring at the observer without having to search around.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Surprise.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

I was looking at what I call a very nice Cattleya named, Cattleya Clark Herman 'Carl' AM/AOS, as you can see from the attachment.

What 'Surprised' me was the description of the temperature range that it showed for growing this orchid.

I am most puzzled, especially as I could not get much information on the two parents, themselves being other hybrids.

What I was looking for was a species so that I could do some research as to where they grow and the temperatures that they grow in.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Surprise.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

From: Kenneth Bruyninckx
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Surprise.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

Have a look at the Wildcatt printout enclosed for your information on the
parentage.

Just watch out when reading the description. Santa Barbara Orchid Estate is
located in Santa Barbara, not quite as cold as an average village in the UK
or Belgium during wintertime. I'm not even sure if they ever had snow?

Having visited them many, many years ago (in 1990) I must say that I believe
most of the plants were grown in shadehouses with some of the more tender
ones under glass. Of course after 18 years my recollections may be wrong.

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/93106?fromtenDay
_bottomnav_undeclared

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly
/graph/BEXX0003?fromtenDay_bottomnav_undeclared

You cannot compare their down to freezing (during a short time in the
morning no doubt) to our frost "all day" situations ;-)

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Surprise.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

Clark Herman is composed of 39% C. Lodigesii, 32 % C.mossiae − and the
balance is no less than 7 other species, none more than 7%.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Surprise.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

I hadn't looked at the pic − just went straight to my laptop to work out
the blood lines for you ( I have been doing a similar exercise − see later
mail from me )- but now I do − it had me rolling on the floor − best laugh
this week. Hot to freezing eh ? Like 0 degrees C to say 40 degrees C ? Or
what...

Where did you find that silly description I wonder − did the salesman also
sell snake-oil by the way ?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Surprise.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

When I saw your 'Attachment' I said....."Bloody hell". That sure is some information Dennis and I am truly gobsmacked and delighted to have it, so many thanks.

Having had a very quick look at it and seeing the species in there, I still do not see how the information about the fact that it can take those temperatures as stated ever came about.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: s0me new piccys...a la wot Roger said to do......
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

1. A seedling grown from a flask − first flowering, still in a thumb pot
; big flower ( but there's only one) but still bodes good for results in the
future. Pity I only had one seedling − it was after a show somewhere,
comparing flasks bought, and I did some swaps with other guys − "I'll give
you one of mine if you give me one of yours etc..."

2. Very big flowers on this Miltassia − I have several plants − divided
up a big pot a couple of years ago , and the divisions are just settling
down and coming into flower now.

3. An interesting dendrobium species from New Guinea (?) supposed to
flower only on the cane tips, but actually flowers from nodes here and
there. But such a curious flower shape.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: More piccys, like I said...
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

5 I shall be pleased to hear any suggestions about names for this . I
certainly bought it at the Weston BOC or the following London Orchid Show
from one of the Taiwan people. My label looks like Cycno. Taiwan. There is
no such registered hybrid. There is Cycnodes Taiwan Gold − and I have a
plant of that ( now in early spike) and when I flowered it − and showed it
to you − last year I recall that the flowers were very definitely gold − not
this lovely dark rich colour. I have investigated the genealogy of the
cross, and can't account for this colour at all . The only species I can
find anything like it is Cycnoches cooperii , but the pictures I find ( on
Jay's Enyclopaedia) are a pale washed out version of the lovely colour here.
So what is it ? Any suggestions ? I'll show it again when all the flowers
are out − it deserves a good airing , and whatever it is I love it.

6. and 7. This is one of the Italian Friends plants (Nardello or whatever) ,
although I am not sure if they still list it − I had it last year. Very
vigorous − now in a 2 litre pot, the three small growths on it when it came
made good big bulbs all now spiking − after some hanging about − and I like
the flowers too.

8. Renanthera are supposedly difficult or worse − to actually flower here in
UK , the story is the light is not good enough. This is a first flowering of
a seedling I have been growing for about three years now. Fantastic colour -
not much wrong with our light, I think !

9. The Vanda is a goodness knows how many generations-from-species hybrid;
7, ? , more ? but 75% of the parentage is V sanderiana − which is what the
flower looks like. A very good sanderiana , but still sanderiana. But I'll
not grumble.

From: Kenneth Bruyninckx
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] More piccys, like I said...
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] More piccys, like I said...
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008

I have grown Cycnodes Taiwan Gold 'Orchis' and Cycnodes Wine Delight 'Jem' FCC/AOS. I think yours is Wine Delight a plant from Jem's Orchids (now closed)
Compose using Plain Text editor

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] More piccys, like I said...
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Temperature statement.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008

Thanks to those of you that replied to the shall we say rather unusual statement about the temperature range that Cattleyas will grow in ?????

Where did you find that silly description I wonder − did the salesman also sell snake-oil by the way ?

To pick up on the word 'Salesman'. Many 'Salespeople' just want to make a fast buck and get to hell out of there, but of course 'Salespeople' from a well established and well known Orchid Nursery want people to keep coming back and buy more plants as they are very satisfied with what they get.

Going back to that 'Statement', it can do a lot of harm, especially to newcomers.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] More piccys, like I said...
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008

I am now convinced that it is Wine Delight, after looking at both parents
and also at many pics of the hybrid on various sites found for me by google.
Interesting that the small-flowered Mormodes parent has provided such
wonderful colour − the Cycnoches parent is green and fairly pale in the pics
I have seen. But also, interestingly, the Mormodes is heavily striped , both
on the usual dark red form and on an alternative maybe semi-albino , but
still heavily dark striped − but not a trace of a stripe on the hybrid;
genetics is a big black hole of mystery to me !

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Surprise.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008

Roger, It is p88888g down outside so I thought I would go back to my Orchid Wiz ( I see Kenneth has the same) and see if I could get a bit more info,
Here is a graphical pi chart of the specie percentages.
I know that Orchid Wiz is considered to be expensive but I bought mine a few years ago and I bought the upgrades when it was $2 to the 1. I get a lot of interest in finding the make-up of hybrids but this latest is the most complicated.
Regards Dennis

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchid Wiz.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008

I was a bit surprised when you said that it was 'Pizzen' down with rain. Not arrived here yet.

That 'Orchid Wiz'.....first time I have seen such detailed information so expertly written. I had a very good look at the Website. Which leads me on to books. There was talk recently about a new book by Isabel La Croix, [hope I have spelt that correctly] but, similar chat was heaped upon a book some years ago....'.Manual of Cultivated Orchid Species' by Bechtel, Cribb and Launert. It was priced at £55.00. I bought it from a store for a 'Tenner'. There were many of them on sale at that price.

As many of us know, there is more detailed information these days just at our finger tips.

I wonder if Isabel's outlay will prove to be worth it ??? Must cost a bomb these days.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Surprise.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008

For the pie chart you can do exactly the same with Wildcatt ( at a small fraction of the cost); also the parentage tree with Wildcatt, and searching among hybrids is very easy too.

What is difficult in Wildcatt is the reverse operation finding the hybrid name when the parents are known. In theory it can be done; it appears that in the list of hybrids all in upper case initial letters of course, there is also a list of species in lower case which ( following the usual computer logic) appears at the end of the hybrid list because lower follows upper.... However I have not so far managed to put the two species names into the box to find the hybrid name . The woman who runs Wildcatt does answer e-mails ( slowly) and maybe I ll ask her for more advice one day she did tell me that the operation is possible in Wildcatt.

Of course the RHS Register will do the find the grex name for you free but is very user unfriendly ; you can t make the slightest mistake in spelling, and must get the pollen/seed parent relationship right, or do it again in reverse order to be quite sure, so I don t use this too much. Its not so bad if putting in species names I can be sure that I ll spell those right ( well, fairly sure...) but hybrids are a different matter. For example is the plant really called.... Mem Bert Field . or is the registered name Memoria Bert Field.... and so on. And a cattleya I have just been researching is clearly called Chia Lin on the register, but I have a plant labelled Chai Lin the RHS would say not known even with this small a mistake...

> Roger, It is p88888g down outside so I thought I would go back to
> my Orchid Wiz ( I see Kenneth has the same) and see if I could get
> a bit more info,

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchid Wiz.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008

As it is such a superb programme, but I am surprised that the price is not dropped so that they would then get money coming in from literally thousands more orchid hobbyists.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchid Wiz.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008

Roger, I have just worked out how to download a gallery. Here are the ancestors of your Cattleya Clark Herman.
According to Geoff the book on species can be found on the internet for 28.
So far I cannot find info on where specie orchids are found in Orchid Wiz.
Regards Dennis

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchid Wiz
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008

Re my last message. I have just found where info on specie location is on the Disc
Regards Dennis
PS I shoulb take my own advice when I was a consultant.
When all else fails --READ THE INSTRUCTIONS -.

As many of you know I like large orchid plants but this is my largest and it is not a Lycastineae. It is a member of the Odontoglossum Alliance --Maclelannara Pagan Lovesong. The plant is over a metre wide and high. It has 46 buds and blooms and the largest bloom is 12cms across. End of boast
Dennis

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Size?
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008

We ll forgive you for this one Dennis ( for your self-declared boast although I would call it no boast, just a statement of fact).

I d be glad of a close up of the flower, too I used to have this in my collection and perhaps still do , among the many lost label plants. I may be able to write a label when I next see it if I am reminded.

> As many of you know I like large orchid plants but this is my
> largest and it is not a Lycastineae. It is a member of the
> Odontoglossum Alliance --Maclelannara Pagan Lovesong. The plant is
> over a metre wide and high. It has 46 buds and blooms and the
> largest bloom is 12cms across. End of boast

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchid Wiz.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008

It is useful in some areas where the net can t help. E.g. I am updating my cattleya labels. Mosty BLCs for example are now RSCs as the Brasso digbyana is now a Rhyncolaelia, and many laelias are now sophros.

But when I come to species I ask myself ah but which laelias are sophros ? all of them ? The book helps ; Isobyl explains that it is the Mexican and Central American species which are still Laelias, and the less closely related Brazilian species ( some of which spill over in to other countries I think − I m sure I saw some in Venezuela. Or were they cattleya ?) , which are sophronitis. All I need then is to go back to Carl Withner s cattleya series, and see where a laelia comes from, and I m home and dry.

> Roger, I have just worked out how to download a gallery. Here are
> the ancestors of your Cattleya Clark Herman.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchid Wiz.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008

Roger, As to your 'thousands' In britain we have about 50 societies with about 50 members in each on average 2500. which gives no more than 3000 enthusiasts. At BOC Congresses we get about 500 through the door each day.
In Japan and the USA they have about 100,00 through the doors daily.
Britain punches way above its weight in the Orchid World only because in the 1850's because of Lindley. Sanders and Paxton et al we were growing orchids and the rest of the world was fighting to survive.
Orchid Wiz is used extensively by judging panels, due to its information of Hybrids, throughout the USA and the Far East.
I am sure they will not reduce the price to sell the odd copy in Btitain.
Regards Dennis

> Mornin' all, Having had another look at 'Orchid Wiz' I must say
> that I am very impressed. However, the cost and the cost of the
> updates causes me to zip up my pockets. As it is such a superb
> programme, but I am surprised that the price is not dropped so
> that they would then get money coming in from literally thousands
> more orchid hobbyists.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchid Wiz.
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008

Very many years ago − think it was at a − or was it the (i.e. the only one there ever has been ?) meeting of The International Orchid Alliance in London , Brian Rittershausen , who happened to be sitting next to me at the dinner, said that UK had about 2000 serious orchid growers . So 3000 today is not a bad guess .

Actually Dennis I think you are being a bit optimistic at putting the average membership of orchid growers as high as 50 in many Societies quite a few are struggling , and often membership figures are based on couples, of which only one is a real grower, the other goes along for company. In fact I see that Cotswold is still listed as a Society the last meeting I attended had 6 other members present out of the 11 paid up members....

I suppose Wiz is not cheap to produce and keep up to date ; I had some correspondence about the work involved in such programmes with the woman who runs Wildcatt Orchid Database when I had troubles with my running it on my system ( which is the 64bit Vista system , and many programmes just won t run on 64bit) . She told me that it is a nightmare trying to make the programme so that it will run on Windows and Linux and Mac never mind 32 and 64 bit , and then on all the popular browsers Internet Explorer , Opera, Firefox, etc etc. I can believe it ; when I kept my web-site up to date , in the last version which had an animated sequence where one picture automatically changed to the next through a dozen different ones , on the opening page, I used Dreamweaver 8 and Photoshop 10 ( or 11) to make it, and after getting it running well on my browser ( Internet Explorer 6 at the time, I think) I then ran the check and list problems programme and came up with 50 pages listing points in the code where there would be problems somewhere or other ; this colour would not show up on IE versions earlier than 5 ; That picture would not appear at a fixed place but could pop up anywhere if shown on a Mac, and so on I decided that I had two options become a programmer , and spend my life studying php and other computer languages, or grow orchids there was not room for both so I gave up the (sophisticated) website. Wiz and Wildcatt and other similar things must be full time operations to produce, and it would be naive to think they will then give them away.

And as a matter of curiosity , out of our group perhaps 150, even if mostly lurkers , how many could put their hand up and say I bought Wiz/Wildcatt/the RHS disc/The one produced in Australia, which was the first computer produced one I think ? I have owned all of these except Wiz ( and once had the Sanders paper version in all its shelf-full of volumes, too ). I know Dennis has Wildcatt not the latest update perhaps and Wiz, but how many more ? So 1 or 2 % of growers keen enough to look at a web-site chat group will buy a programme ? No wonder it is not cheap.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Maclellanara Pagan Lovesong
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008

Geoff, Here is a picture of my Maclellanara Pagan Lovesong. The plant is a division of a plant bought from Burnham Orchids a good 10 or 15 years ago. It looks very similar to Mac. P. L. 'Sandridge' that won an AM for Ivens Orchids back in 1985, after they re-made the cross using a special Brassia, and so could be a mericlone. The spots on the petals should be more brown and this flower is 12.5cms wide.
Regards Dennis

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchid info.
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008

I am a glutton for knowledge of my hobbies and for orchids I have Wildcat, Orchidwiz on my computer and on my shelves I have Hawkes Encyclopedia of cultivated orchids, Bechtel, Cribb and Lamberts Manual,Rentouls 4 Volumes, Marie Selby Gardens book of Genera, Dr. Oakleys Lycaste, Ida and Anguloa plus others by Rittershausen, Macensie Black.
The Two books that got me hooked on orchis information are Orchids − Their cultivation and management by Watson and Chapman -Owned by a Mr. Hughes in 1908 and the first book I bought on Orchids − Home Orchid Growing by Rebecca Tyson Northen. AND
I have just bought the latest on species by Isobel La Criox.
Regards Dennis

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Photo of Dennis's orchid.
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008

Full marks for the name in the photo, but why I really write is to just have a small discussion about something that I do know something of, and that is, that your orchid flower against that background shows up the flower very well indeed.

I still think on the lines that some colours do take sharper photos than some others, and I feel that this shot of yours goes a long way to proving the fact.

Drying up nicely this afternoon, so please do not send us any more rotten weather.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Knowledge.
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008

What makes this book so special is the coloured plates, they are fantastic.....when you think of the date.

To show you all how good they were so long ago, have a good look at the attachment.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Maclellanara Pagan Lovesong
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-29
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2008 Archived Messages

22—30 November