2008 mailing list messages

2008 Archived Messages

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From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: Phalaenopsis appendiculata, Phalaenopsis appendiculata (4), Phalaenopsis appendiculata (6)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008

Not this topic but I'm being idle! A while back you were seeking the identity of a Schoenorchis sp. Don't know if you ever got there but it occurs to me that Jay Pfahl's site is pretty good on the genus with a fair representation figured. Just in case you haven't already tried it why mot look at http://www.orchidspecies.com/indexqrsel.htm
Cheers
John

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008

Yes, I've had some progress on the Schoenorchis identity. David believes that it is S. pachycris, and provided a link to a picture on Jay Pfahl's site that looks rather like the plant I have.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: Phalaenopsis violacea alba (2)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008

Hello all,
Here's another Phal species, an alba specially for Rocky. It is mostly
white although a Gongora galeata alba I had some years ago was a mucky
golden brown colour. So they, don't all seem to be white.
David

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: Phalaenopsis violacea alba (2)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008

Another lovely little plant David. Have you been using milk on the leaves?
Gordon.

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: Phalaenopsis violacea alba (2)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Highly Chuffed.
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

Yes, I am 'Highly Chuffed', as my plant of L.C. Loog Tone 'African beauty' is in bloom. I purchased this plant earlier this year from 'Our Italian Friend's.....Azienda Agricola Nardotto e Capello. As always their plants are excellent.

I see from wandering around the Internet that this plant was hybridised by one Mark Rose in the U.S.A. I am trying to contact him to ask about the name 'Loog Tone'.

My plant has nine blooms.....should have been twelve, but in the early bud stage some critter started to gnaw at three of them, so I cut them off.

This plant is advertised at 14 Euros plus of course the postage..........I saw one American website where it was advertised possibly in spike at about $80. Just goes to show why I buy my plants from Nardotto & Capello.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Not so chuffed.
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

I would just like to hear from some of you as to what you think about this plant of mine.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: David's latest Phalaenopsis.
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

And yet another excellent plant. Tell me, do you wipe the leaves, if so, what do you wipe them with.

I had a look at the 'Italian's' website yesterday and they sure do have a lot of the type of species/small flower type Phallys that you grow. Thing is.....what would you say was the LOWEST Winter temperature to keep them happy.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Not so chuffed.
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

# Interesting Paph Roger, Probably a P. philippinense hybrid using something like P. callosum or superbiens maybe as the other parent. The flower quality isn't great compared with similar crosses available but still quite nice.
#
Roy

From: Nathaniel Green
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Highly Chuffed.
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

As to the name L.C. Loog Tone 'African beauty' are you sure it is not meant
to be L.C long Tone 'African Beauty' as I have just looked at the web site
and there is one more L.C just called long tone red chocolate as it could
just be a typing error on there behalf?

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Not so chuffed.
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

You know Claire de Lune, I suppose − wonderful Maudiae breeding, plant with
Granny Smith Apple green and white colouring. Big wide, round, flat dorsal ,
pretty straight ( slightly drooping from horizontal) laterals, etc. Single
flowered, of course.

As to the other supposed parent , P.phillipensis alba is a pretty rare plant
; I've never seen it in flower, but here's a link -

Some think that this is not a true sub-species at all , but merely some kind
of temporary albinism , meaning that if grown under different conditions it
would revert to a more 'natural' colour − in the link it certainly looks as
though it had been grown under a stone or something ! ( half joke ).

It is also generally said that Maudiae types just don't produce beautiful
hybrids when crossed with paphs from other sections. I can't think of any -
but of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and some that I ( and a
lot of other people ) think are 'dogs'; might be the best thing since sliced
bread to you.

If I had bought it from the people you will find in the first link , I'd ask
for my money back.

Ps. It seems that when I converted the font from the one my message writer
was trying to use( which I couldn't read very easily) I lost the hyperlink
from the references ; anyone who is interested can of course just copy them
and paste into their browser address bar.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: Phalaenopsis violacea alba (2)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

In answer to your question "Do I use milk on the leaves" I must say no. In fact I don't use anything at all on the leaves, not even water, too frightened of getting water in the crowns and getting the dreaded crown rot. I have occasionally, "about once a year", sprayed with Roseclear 2 but then spend all day drying out the crowns with kitchen paper. I would think that milk would attract botrytis as it breaks down.

Have pollinated appendiculata today with the help of Phillip Cribb. Very difficult as the flowers are so small and the pollinia are not very sticky. We ended up using tweezers in the end. I think we must have had a go at about 10 flowers, so keep your fingers crossed.
David

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Not so chuffed.
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] David's latest Phalaenopsis.
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008

Hello Rocky,
Just answered the same question from Gordon. They just grow like that, no added extras, just an occasional wipe with a moist cloth to remove dust. Don't spray with water as it marks the leaves, and gets in the crowns. Some of the species like maculata are very susceptible to crown rot.
I have dropped the temperature to about 17deg C at night time in the winter but then push it up to about 24 deg C in the daytime. Phal pulchra and Phal lindenii can be grown at intermediate temps as they come from higher altitudes. Others like Phal hainanensis and Phal honghenensis can be dropped to below 10 deg C at night in winter, but I wouldn't risk it.
Must go to bed now or I won't get up in time to see the Olympics.
David.

> And yet another excellent plant. Tell me, do you wipe the leaves,
> if so, what do you wipe them with.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Not so chuffed.
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008

Identification/labelling; Earwig 'o again!
I'll leave the correctness or otherwise of the plant to experts like Geoff (Oh yes he is)
However, the orchid looks nice to me (the beholder) whatever it is and it wouldn't be thrown out of our glass house although we prefer species orchids.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Highly Chuffed.
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008

Like you, I have always been sceptical about the name, but on looking at several websites on the other side of the pond, there are many references to 'Loog', so if I get an answer from Mark Rose you will be the first to know.

As I suspected, my plant must have been the runt from the pod, or whatever. I will wait until the next flower spike and then decide if I want to keep it or not. The leaves look lovely...................

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] My Paph.
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008

The Paph Society used to have a competition , or shall we say a class, for
the plant with the best ( prettiest ? ) leaves . My memory records the
interesting fact that most of the entries were of the same hybrid but the
interesting thing was that a careful inspection of the plants − sometimes
really filling large pots − gave the distinct impression that they had
never flowered at all. Which may go to show that a plant can be worth
keeping even if you decide that you don't like the flowers. Maybe even take
them off !.

Sorry I can't remember the name of the non-flowering plants − usually, but
not invariably , I grow plants for the flowers and would not go out of my
way to acquire hybrids difficult or impossible to flower.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Not so chuffed.
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008

I just loved the 'Earwig 'o again'. I would never throw it out, and in fact the next flower which id part open has a better looking lip.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Trip Report − Finca Dracula ------------>WOW
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008

I just got back from the northern part of Panama, a very very beautiful part of Central America, Had a Swiss feeling to it, it was at 2000 meters, kind of out of the way very nice roads but 8+ hours from The capital city.

If there are any miniature orchid enthusiasts out there this is the place for you, masdevalias like you can not imagine, Pleurothallis everywhere, and of course Draculas. Lots of cool growing Pescatoreas, Acienetas, Bolleas, Huntleyas, Sophriantis, encylias, epidendriums, lots more. Basically it is Andrews private collection of 100,000 plants. It is truely amazing! Just looking at his library is worth the trip. If anyone wants more info I'd be happy to elaborate more.

I took a lot of photos but the names are in my notes and need to do some translating....(of my handwriting).

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Oh No! Problem paph again
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008

Sad (or is it "dischuffed") to report that yesterday I discovered a new
symptom in the non- blooming paph I've repeatedly asked for advice on. Its
youngest leaf had stopped growing a month or so ago and is significantly
undersized, and 3 of the oldest leaves had gradually become odd textured
(leathery) and eventually lost color... so I decided to investigate
further... good thing I did... the last 2 times I had this plant out of its
pot it had 2 long thick healthy roots and 3 skinny little treadlike ones.
Now the healthy part of the 2 thick ones is only about 1/4 to 1/3 as long as
it used to be and only one of the threadlike ones are alive. The plant has 2
other spots where rooty looking bumps are forming.... the most distal spot
has dozens of them, so I repotted it (minus the dead roots, of course) in
such a way that all 3 of these areas are in/under the compost. then I
lightly sprayed the leaves with plain water and covered the whole pot and
plant with a vented clear plastic bag. The culprit was probably a compost
change....I had used plain fir bark until the last time I repotted it, when
I switched to somebody's recommended vermiculite, gravel, and bark
mixture...which appeares to have stayed too wet. Unfortunately I was unable
to find any plain fir bark yesterday and had to settle for a course horrid
mixture of giant chunks of charcoal, bark, and rock sold locally as "Schultz
Orchid Mix". Any comments? Sue B

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Oh No! Problem paph again
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

Paphs are not the easiest of orchids to grow − I think that it took me the
first 25 years of my orchid growing life before I hit it right, and then,
quite suddenly , I could actually see them growing.

Before then, every re-pot meant a smaller pot − whatever I grew them in,
however I tried. Afterwards, I could be away for 2 weeks and come back and
see that leaves had doubled in length.

If you have never seen them grown well, it's hard to believe, but just
consider that in the wild, a healthy plant can grow a complete fan of leaves
and produce a flower spike in just one season . If you calculate it, say 6
leaves, average 6 inches ( one of the callosum group for example) that is 36
inches of leaf growth in 6 months − its at least an inch and a half a
week....

My "road to damascus " conversion came when I stopped poisoning the plants.
I changed from tap water ( my greenhouse at that time was not designed to
collect rainwater, and the main house roof was cement tiles, so that was
useless for rain-water too). I bought an Reverse Osmosis plant , stripped
out all the dissolved stuff from the tap water down to EC 005 , and then
added back a (weak) cocktail of Calcium Nitrate, "balanced fertiliser" and
sea-weed based Maxicrop, giving a total EC of 300 ( I get confused between
micro and milli and all the other d**** units of Siemens) − but most meters
read in two figures and tell you to add one zero.

As to composts − when my collection became the UK National Collection , I
had to be inspected by a high-powered lot of folk, who mostly knew nothing
at all ( in our terms) about orchids, but they knew their plants − mostly
Royal Botanic Gardens − Kew, or Royal Horticultural Society − Wisley
trained people, and they could spot a blemished leaf or a limp growth a mile
away... and my plants sailed through − no "provisional status" or anything
like that. I grew then in bark ( Douglas fir bark, pieces the size of a
largeish finger-nail) plus charcoal plus Perlite − 6:1:1. Many years of
messing about with other composts getting "wonderful results" for a few
weeks, but then downhill all the way... lead me to go back to that at my
next major repotting, but do remember that every compost change probably
means that you have go to grow a complete new set of roots ; root structure
forms to suit the compost , and when formed, can't be changed ( on that
root).

My advice is don't mix chalk and cheese − by which I mean gravel and bark.
I know that some folk get good results in gravel − Roger does − but I'm not
clear how long he has been growing paphs in it , in fact now I think again,
he doesn't − he uses an organic mix − I'm sure he will chime in and tell you
if I'm wrong. And there is a difference between good results this week,
and good results from plants which have been grown in the same media for
several years and haves consistently got bigger and better all that time.
Good paphs can be divided into two equal parts after 3 years, each bigger
than at the start point ! That's a pretty good test of growing quality. And
of course, all this is a generalisation, or two (!)- and there are always
exceptions − but don't take one exception − one particular example of one
particular species in one particular collection , and generalise out from it
!.

Best of luck − paphs are worth persevering with. Orchids of character, not
necessarily beauty . I'll settle for character any day, anywhere.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Oh No! Problem paph again
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

I have never been very good with Paphs, so my advice is to be taken with some caution.

I have lately managed to get some (not all) of my paphs to flower, though, so I can't be doing all that wrong.

My compost for paphs is the usual 'orchid compost' that you can get at any garden centers, to which I add plenty of perlite to keep the compost open. They seem to like it, as they grow rather well (well, bigger leaves than the older ones), and I have managed to flower 3 of my 5 paphs so far!

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Sue's problems.
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

Sue, you wrote; I had used plain fir bark until the last time I repotted it, when I switched to somebody's recommended vermiculite, gravel, and bark mixture...which appears to have stayed too wet.

So, let me take you up on the "Which appears to have stayed too wet". You obviously now know how much water/moisture to give it, and when not to water again until it needs it.

I can assure you that this mix works very well for quite a few people, especially those that have changed over to it.

Please just try it for a little longer and to not water until it requires more moisture.

I was once as you know, definitely not a Paph lover, but I now have about twelve of them.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: FW: [OrchidTalk] Oh No! Problem paph again
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

Post-script to my message below − I got hauled off to take my wife to do our
shopping , and had one or two thoughts left unsaid -

The exact compost is unimportant , but certainly an organic base . Must be
very, very, very free-draining . This probably means using a sieve to get
rid of anything smaller than pea size bits, so as to give lots of free
space.

Watering is to get the plants soaking, and then let them dry out thoroughly
; of course frequency varies with other matters, but I kept my paph house at
15 degrees winter night temp, had constant-running fans, high humidity, and
watered by immersion of the pots, individually, in a bucket of
water/nutrient mix ( at every watering). I can't repeat too often, let them
dry out − but you will then see them start to flop − the newer less rigid
leaves − and that's the ideal time to water again ; they will be stiff and
erect the following day.

My watering frequency in the summer came down to every 10days and went up to
every 3 weeks in the winter. This for the small and normal sized pots -
seedlings approaching first flowering in say 9cm pots , mature hybrids up
to 18cm pots and then divided , species grown into as large specimens as
possible − even then say P.callosum with ten flowering growths hardly needed
anything bigger than 18cm, and my best ever charlesworthii with 15 flowering
growths was in a 15cm pan as I recall . Very large pots ( usually the
multi-florals based on say P.rothchildianum, which I also kept undivided,
got up to 30 cm pots ( the bottom half full of crocks or an upturned pot ,
so as to minimise the amount of compost ) and the frequency came down even
less , say 3 or 4 weeks in summer, maybe 6 weeks in winter.

If using lower temperatures − I have tried growing some species down to 7
or 8 degrees C for several months − then watering frequency came down to
6-8 weeks .

Nutrient specification is unimportant too − I just mentioned what I happened
to use, but whatever you do, mix it up a bit − a cocktail seems to work best
in so many things from antiviral drugs against Aids, to pre-dinner drinks !
( do you know the American poet Ogden Nash ? " Candy is dandy, but liquor is
quicker" − sorry, my sense of humour intrudes at times...a digression ! )

But nutrient value amount is important. These are low feeders . I have
seen them growing in mud made from decomposing sandstone and tropical rain
in the wild, and also in crevices in Karst ( very hard limestone almost like
marble) and the available humus and nutrients in both can't be very high.
Too rich a diet and they just plain sulk ( indigestion ? ).

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: What's in a word.
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

I am still searching for a definition of the words 'Loog Tone', as in my Laeliocattleya Loog Tone 'African Beauty'.

It is, as some of us thought, possibly.....Long Tone, but as this cross was made by a Thai person, I have at least found out that the word 'Loog' means something to do with Children/Offspring.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What's in a word.
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

I have it in bud too , I discovered whilst out watering , just now − same
source, no doubt.

Answer − its now a GsL ( whatever that means − didn't stop to look that up !
)

Cross is Gsl Netrasiri Doll ( I grew that many years ago − tall multifloral
two leafed job with shiny dark flowers, as I recall ) x C. Thospol spot.

So no mistake − Loog Tone is what it is . Registered by a Thai sounding
name − Thongprasit, T in 1987. This may be T orchids in Bangkok ?

> Hi all,
>
> I am still searching for a definition of the words 'Loog Tone', as in my
> Laeliocattleya Loog Tone 'African Beauty'.

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's problems.
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

Rocky, to be fair, I should not have said the problem was the compost
itself, but that in changing the compost and continuing to water the plant
the same way I had watered it on the previous compost I apparently watered
it more than it needed in this compost... or more than it could drink with
"no' roots at some point. Sad but true. Sue B

> Good morning Sue,..... how do you do.....could not resist it.
>
> Sue, you wrote; I had used plain fir bark until the last time I repotted
> it, when I switched to somebody's recommended vermiculite, gravel, and bark
> mixture...which appears to have stayed too wet.
>
> So, let me take you up on the "Which appears to have stayed too wet". You
> obviously now know how much water/moisture to give it, and when not to water
> again until it needs it.
>
> I can assure you that this mix works very well for quite a few people,
> especially those that have changed over to it.
>
> Please just try it for a little longer and to not water until it requires
> more moisture.
>
> I was once as you know, definitely not a Paph lover, but I now have about
> twelve of them.
>
> Kind regards, Rocky.

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Oh No! Problem paph again
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

Perseverance! I'm going to leave the poor thing alone in it's little
bag/greenhouse for at least a month unless it tells me otherwise. at least
it's still green and looks alert.How it can possibly survive with so little
root is beyond me. thanks for the encouragement and ideas for me to sort
through. Sue B

> Dear Sue,
>
> Paphs are not the easiest of orchids to grow , I think that it took me the
> first 25 years of my orchid growing life before I hit it right, and then,
> quite suddenly , I could actually see them growing.
>
> Before then, every re-pot meant a smaller pot , whatever I grew them in,
> however I tried. Afterwards, I could be away for 2 weeks and come back and
> see that leaves had doubled in length.
>
> If you have never seen them grown well, it's hard to believe, but just
> consider that in the wild, a healthy plant can grow a complete fan of leaves
> and produce a flower spike in just one season . If you calculate it, say 6
> leaves, average 6 inches ( one of the callosum group for example) that is 36
> inches of leaf growth in 6 months , its at least an inch and a half a
> week....

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Oh No! Problem paph again
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008

There is an excellent article re growing new roots on Paphs in the latest Orchid Digest. I had a club copy until yesterday when I handed it back so can't scan it for you at this stage.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Wildflowers
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008

A member of a computer group to which I belong has made a very
interesting website http://wildflowerfinder.org.uk/ which lists a
huge variety of British wildflowers, including photos of several
orchids. You need to expand the width of your browser window to fit
all the page in, but it is well worth a look.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: Phalaenopsis venosa,
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008

Hello All,
Here's another one of my Phal species. Not such a pretty colour. I think
it would rather be outside the pot, most of the roots are.
David

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Oh No! Problem paph again
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008

> There is an excellent article re growing new roots on Paphs in the latest
> Orchid Digest. I had a club copy until yesterday when I handed it back so
> can't scan it for you at this stage.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Calling Rocky and others − native orchid identification request
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008

Further to my message about http://wildflowerfinder.org.uk/ the
site's author, Roger Darlington, has asked if our members could help
identify the orchid featured under '???' "What's This" [click on the
'???' link at the top of the first column of the main page, then
click on 'Enigma No. 1' link in the second column]. Also if you spot
any mis-identified orchids please let him know. Contact details are
on the site.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: Phalaenopsis venosa,
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008

Another little beauty David. I notice your mix looks fairly open. What is the make-up Please? Would you consider mounting and if so on what?
Gordon.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: Phalaenopsis venosa,
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008

Hello Gordon,
The compost is chopped up wine corks, sponge rock, few bits of Dynarock or perlag and about a fifth New Zealand sphagnum moss. I vary it according to which plant it is.
I would consider mounting venosa except for the fact that I have so many mounted, and finding somewhere that doesn't drip on plants below is getting difficult. Also it's one of the medium sized ones and mounting them leads to a root explosion. I tried an experiment with Phal phillipinensis this Spring. I mounted it on a piece of cork bark that is 2 ft long by 5 inches wide. The roots have grown right up to the top and half way back down again, much more that would be expected in a pot. An odd thing is that one of the roots I tied on initially has a quarter inch piece missing, only the wiry centre is there and I thought it would die off. It's growing just as strongly as the others, so it's obviously passing food back to the plant, or is it just staying alive on it's own?
I normally use Cork bark to mount plants but have used Oak bark and Silver birch successfully.
David

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-29
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2008 Archived Messages

8—14 August