May 2008 mailing list messages

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From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Rip Off.
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Roger Grier wrote:
>
> When Garden Centres like the one you describe do not readily sell their orchids and the flowers drop off, they then place them in an area adjacent to the others and sell them at £5. Question is, at this price are they still making a very slight profit?????
>
> Rocky.
>
Without a doubt. I have them for less than £1 − and I suspect they still
make a profit from them. In the streetmarkets of southern China you can
buy orchids in bundles of anything up to 20 or 30 plants for less than
£3 − and that is the tourist price. Due to huge number of seeds produced
the production costs in those places are next to nothing per plant, and
I doubt if any great retailer pays as much as 10p per plant, so don't
worry − you are not ripping them off ;-)

From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Lycaste culture.
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Rocky,
Just read your message below.
What is special about your mix? Did I miss it earlier?

Can I get Paphs to flower? Can I fly!! I've re-potted and fed as Geoff
advised but still no luck!

> ...This passion of mine got me to have a good look at Paph roots, as I
> never had any success with them at all.

> Wow!!! To see a Paph root under a microscope is something else.
> Beautiful tiny roots growing all round the root. And in such quantity
> that very tiny pieces of grit were lodged in between them, and some
> other tiny items. BUT.....in capitol letters, it was plainly obvious
> that the whole structure would not like any items that readily rotted to
> lodge there.

> That's when I formulated my own mix.....and boy have I done well, or
> should I say my Paphs have.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] rip-off Britain
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

It is the same in Germany. In the Supermarkets you get them for about
5 − 7 Euros and in the Garden Centres you have to pay between 15 and 30
Euros. Why?
They all come from the same 'factories' where they are 'made' by computers.
I'm not so sure that the Garden Centres sell them later at lower prices.
I believe they rather dump them to keep the prices up.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

> I thought you might be interested in this snap ; its taken in a
> small town in Switzerland (Chur) in a department store, and is a
> tiny fraction of a rack, three shelves high , maybe 50 feet long ,
> packed with good quality phals − all clean, perfect, beautifully
> packed − in ceramic ornamental ( but plain white) pots − each
> holding the usual plant pot inside − and the price − 15 Swiss
> Francs each. The conversion rate is 2 : 1 . In other words £7.50
> pence each.
>
> So how can a Swiss store sell them so cheap?

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: and her's the other 5...
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

The Bulbophyllum is very pretty − the often seen cartwheel spokes type (
half a wheel here). Individual flowers say 2cm, so the wheel 4cm dia. I
tried a close up of the hooded dorsal sepal etc, but these are flowers which
sway in the wind like little ballet dancers, and the lips are mobile too -
and I had to use 1/60th even at f3.5, so couldn't get a really bitingly
sharp pic. I'll take it in the house and try again with a clamp and a camera
tripod, if and when...

Name not known . Sold to me as Bulbo sp. Any ideas ? Bulbs are smaller
than the last fingertip joint of my little finger, spaced apart on a
rhizome.

Dendrobium Stardust . I remember showing this in the beginning of the year I
think , or was it last year ? , and giving keikis away − hope you-all have
em in flower − this is one of the keikis I put into Perlite and hydroculture
in February this year when about 2 inches high with two little roots.

Encyclia allemanioides. Part of a thrice branched stem of 30+ flowers, each
3cm across.

Promenea hybrid ; I think it is Golden Meadows or some-such, but it seems
that Promenea xanthina, citrate or whatever other yellow name you give it,
has the same characteristic as its quite near relatives Zygopetalum Mackayii
etc they are so dominant that the pollen from the other parent seems to
have had no effect whatsoever. I think inb this case the other was P
Rollinsonii.

Renanthera monachica. Seedling size still − barely 8 inches high , just
flowering for the second time, now managing a spike with one branch and
some 30 flowers and buds. Needs a lot of light ( I have been taking
measurements with my new Light meter , and I'll say more later.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Bulbophyllum medusae
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Thank you All for the favourable comments of my plant.
It is not scented at all. There is no smell whatsoever.
B. spiesii is one of them that smell like rotten meat.
Here is some advice for future growers of this plant.

Do not mount it. If it is mounted, take it off and plant it in a
basket or shallow pan.

I have my plant for over 10 years and it was mounted. So I left it
like that and it grew poorly. One or two flowers per year that was
all.Actually it grew 'backwards'.

It became less of what it was originally. It produced on or two new
bulbs, but it lost also the same number of bulbs. So, no progress. 4
years ago I planted it into the basket and it took off like weeds. In
2006 − 6 flowers, in 2007 − 9 flowers, and this year, so far 10 and
another 6 coming. Most likely I have to move it into a bigger basket
when it finished flowering.

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] wartsy epidendrum
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Beautiful photographs and wonderful orchids Geoff and they do brighten a rainy day like today. Attached are two photos (reduced size) of my £2 B & Q orchid bought about 4 years ago. − Jean

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Lycaste culture.
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

It was only after looking at a Paph root through my microscope that I could
see its makeup.....beautiful short hairs, radiating all round the root.
Also I could see tiny fragments of rock, etc which were caught up in the
hairs. I could just imagine a Paph growing on the forest floor. I am sure
that a similar type of plant grows on the floor of the New Forest in a well
populated area of trees. Meaning that such plants grow in a nice soft,
light in weight, open/porous litter.

Three parts Vermiculite
Two parts Grit.....size, from about a match head to a small garden pea.
Two parts of a 'roughish' garden compost. Definitely not bulb fibre as that
is far to dense.

And it sure has worked wonders for me. I am now always on the lookout for
Paphs..........especially the multi-flowering types.

> Rocky,
> Just read your message below.
> What is special about your mix? Did I miss it earlier?

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] a few pics to brighten your day − six here and five to follow in another e-mail
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Geoff,
Awesome photos!
What kind of Temps do you keep these lovely plants at? Seasonal Changes.
This may sound strange but I have several that I can not get to flower. I suspect they want to be a little warmer.
Jim

It is always interesting to see the pictures of the members plants. However, it seems to me that some are more curious than beautiful.
Beauty, as some wise old sage, can't recall who, said, is in the eyes of the beholder, and I can only think that the reason for growing some of them is for the challenge.

Geoff's 15 Phalls were to me the most beautiful, and Peters mop head, Bulbo Medusae the most interesting. I can't make up my mind as to whether it is curious or beautiful. Probably a bit of both, but which ever or whatever it is for you, I wish you successful growing.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: wartsy epidendrum − my Encyclia cordigera rosea
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Here is a picture of my encyclia cordillera rosa. it was grown on a concrete wall in full sun in the dry season!
Jim

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Warty Orchid
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

I did not respondearlier as it may have been recognised. Two years ago a Clematis in my garden developed a similar appearavce and being a member of the RHS I sent a specimen bloom to the Wisley Laboratories. Within a week I was adyised it was a common fungus and. if the weather dried up the next lot of blooms would be free. They were.
If you belong to the RHS send a sample bloom but it looks lika a funfus and should be treated as such but I am not an expert.
Regards from an overcast Devon Dennis

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: native orchid societies
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Hello All, does anyone know of any native orchid societies in the wiltshire and surrounding areas that go out on field trips as well as the normal stuff, or indeed any organisations that go out on native orchid safari's?hapy growing!
Gavin

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] photos
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] wartsy epidendrum
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

I can't think that an insect would have damaged every bud the same way ;
deformed flowers are very typical of some viruses − I suspect this.
Sacrificing a £15 (?) plant now is cheap compared to what may happen if it
is spread − and remember that sucking insects spread it just as easily as an
unsterilised knife.
I think its an area where better safe than sorry should be the rule .

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: wartsy epidendrum − my Encyclia cordigera rosea
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

I have not managed to flower my plant of this species, as yet. Do you think
this is a typical form ?

> Here is a picture of my encyclia cordillera rosa. it was grown on a concrete
> wall in full sun in the dry season!

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] native orchid societies
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Try googling Botanical Societies, Natural History Societies ; ask The
Botanical Soc. If it has a local branch, etc... Also try The Hardy Orchid
Soc.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] a few pics to brighten your day − six here and five to follow in another e-mail
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

All my plants in one house ; winter night stat has been 17, day 19 , but
after recent fuel price hikes reset to 15 night and day ; but the shape of
my greenhouse ( a standard Hartley Botanic shape − almost a semi-circular
roof in cross section ) gives much better light at all times than the
conventional Vee pitch which is so often used in small greenhouses in UK -
and this means that with any sun at all − even if the outside temperature is
very low ( frost is uncommon here on the UK south coast , a mile from the
sea but day temperatures are certainly down to single figures most of the
winter) there is a lift above those figures.

I have a Jaybird 400 − set to 70% humidity − and two big ( for domestic
purposes) swamp coolers , all plumbed to mains water via a water softener ,
and in the recent mini-heat-wave ( for UK) with a week or more of
temperatures about 25 in the shade, the inside temperature has been about
30. There are four big vents powered by Bayliss Professional big rams which
actually open a crack at anything above 15.

Earlier this week at 11 am , when light values are perhaps 95% of the
possible peak, direct Lux readings on the sun gave 90,000Lux, and the
interior of the greenhouse , readings taken from leaves varied from 5000 to
19000 Lux. Later, when the sun was off the greenhouse, the internal figures
( from a 12000 Lux sky) were 960 Lux lowest and 2500lux highest.

> Geoff,
>
> What kind of Temps do you keep these lovely plants at? Seasonal Changes.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Beauty
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

What a joy modern phals are − both in introducing so many people to the wwoo
( wonderful world of orchids) and also in widening the choices at affordable
prices and moreover of plants which are so dead easy to grow.

Since my hobby is known to many locals I find that even my hairdresser
brings out plants for my advice − and so often when people do this, they are
damn good plants, that 50 years ago orchid enthusiasts would have given an
arm and a leg to get...

Whatever grumpy old men say about the world going to the dogs − and I've
just got home from a Probus meeting and have been listening to so many
contemporaries going on , and on and on...- mind you, if I'd said, well one
thing is better anyway − and its phalaenopsis − they would have thought me
even madder than they (probably) already do.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] and her's the other 5...
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Members#recent batch of photos show the diversity and beauty of orchids#which appear to be able to be grown in varying environments.#My problem seems to be that I get mine to flower once and then they slowly die. What do members suggest that I am doing wrong or not doing correctly. Most of the plants are young when I get them to flower.
Gordon.

From: jeff parkes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] and her's the other 5...
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

Hello Geoff
Off subject and you have probably mentioned it before but what lens are you using for your orchid pics?
Regards
Jeff

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Wildcatt orchid database
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

I found that Wildcatt won't run on my 64bit Vista system. Went to their
website , and noted that although they say, updates every six months in
March and September, the last one on offer is September 2007..

Gone bust ? − bad news if so , since there seems no sign at all of a new
RHS version − the last was, I think 1998 ?

Anyone know anything on this general subject of searchable databases for
orchid hybrids ?

Is it possible that the taxonomic botanists are being paid by the label
makers, in order to increase sales ? (joke)

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Replies and answers.
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

First to Jean, what a superb plant with such clean and healthy leaves.....not bad for two quid.

Second to Jim. I have always found those very hard bulb types of Encyclias difficult to grow, but by looking at your photos I have taken on board some new information. Thanks Jim.

Third for Andy. What did you think of my remark about a possible tiny rascal getting inside the buds??? Geoff wanted to burn it because he no 'Kemo sabe'.

From: Jean Lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Epi and Paph mix
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

That is a beautiful Epi. Jim − whereabouts are you? What is your average temp? Roger with the 'compost' bit of your mix would the loamlike orchid mix do − the type that comes in various size bags at Garden Centres − mared 'Orchid Compost'? − Jean

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] and her's the other 5...
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

The last set were done with a Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro lens. Usually I use a
Nikon 60mm micro ( both will focus down to 1:1 if used on a film camera, but
with a digital I'm not sure what the effect is − may be to 1.5:1 or maybe
its 0.66:1 ) but the Nikon − which I have had for 20 years maybe − has gone
back to Japan for a check and repair.

> Off subject and you have probably mentioned it before but what lens are you
> using for your orchid pics?

From: N & T Burgess
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Wildcatt orchid database
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008

It does work with my Vista, but on closing the programme I get an error notification for pfwrun − I just carry on and delete it − then I get an application error, I close this and carry on regardless − no problems at all.

> The March 2008
> available. This update includes Sander's orchid registration data
> published through February 2008
> through Volume 4 issue of 2007.

> Please note: when ordering at our secure site your browser may warn
> you that the name on the secure certificate does not match the web
> address. This is because we are using the secure certificate
> provided by our web hosting service Value Web. There is no cause
> for concern about this, the ordering site is completely secure and
> valid. Also please note that computer issues have prevented us
> from updating the date of the newest update on our web site. Even
> though it says March 2007, we will send our current March 2008
> version.

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] wartsy epidendrum
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Still, there is a chance that it is a fungus − perhaps if it is
possible, quarantine the plant in a seperate room and treat it with a
fungicide to see if that clears it up?

geoff hands wrote:
> I can't think that an insect would have damaged every bud the same way ;
> deformed flowers are very typical of some viruses − I suspect this.
> Sacrificing a £15 (?) plant now is cheap compared to what may happen if it
> is spread − and remember that sucking insects spread it just as easily as an
> unsterilised knife.
> I think its an area where better safe than sorry should be the rule .
>
> Geoff
>

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Epi and Paph mix
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Roger with the 'compost' bit of your mix would the loamlike orchid mix do − the type that comes in various size bags at Garden Centres − marked 'Orchid Compost'? − Jean.

NO... a definite NO. When I give my 'Orchid' chats to people, I take along four bags of so named 'Orchid Compost' and have some of the contents put into four plastic saucers so that the audience can see and feel it. Three of the bags are 'Garbage/Crap'.

One of them is full of large to medium pieces of bark covered in dust and other items.

If you can find a bag of compost in a Garden Centre which contains some small pieces of bark, some peat or similar item etc. then use that mix.

Failing that, try to find if the company named 'Roffeys' of Throop, Bournemouth, have their product for sale in your area.

The actual product that I use is called Roffey's 'Container' compost. [For hanging baskets, tubs, etc.]

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re-naming and labels.
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Geoff's comments about the re-naming completely amazed me, and I could not agree more with what he said.

Ps I hear that Sophronitis which became Laelias are now Cattleyas ! Exit all SLCs ? etc....
Is it possible that the taxonomic botanists are being paid by the label makers, in order to increase sales ? (joke)

Taxonomic botanists should stick to common sense and VISUAL recognition, as that is what we all SEE when we look at plants.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Growing orchids.
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

How about giving a rundown on how you grow your plants, giving us all as much inform ation as you can please. Then we may be able to see if there are one or two points that may or may not require attention.

From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Lycaste culture.
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Thanks for the info. You may be interested in a new product at
B&Q.....'re-cycled glass'. It is crushed glass and found in the
'building section'. I'm using it in my Alpine compost mix instead of the
horticultural grit. I'll try it in your mix.
I'll also add some slow release fertiliser and see how that works.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Epi and Paph mix
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Hi,
It is actually an encyclia, I am in the central valley of Costa Rica, at 5000ft this plant was grown at a friends house at 3000ft. Temps in the day in the sun 80s nights 60s at 3000ft.
Jim

> That is a beautiful Epi. Jim − whereabouts are you? What is your
> average temp?

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] and her's the other 5...
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

If your plants are dying or not flowering it is generally (without know what you are doing or not doing) one of 3 things, too much water most plants need to dry out and then be watered again. If the roots are sitting in soggy media, it is real bad and will Eventually kill the plant. 2) light generally put them in as much light as they can stand. 3) and a little fertilizer once every couple weeks.
Jim

> Members recent batch of photos show the diversity and beauty of
> orchids which appear to be able to be grown in varying
> environments. My problem seems to be that I get mine to flower once
> and then they slowly die. What do members suggest that I am doing
> wrong or not doing correctly. Most of the plants are young when I
> get them to flower.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: wartsy epidendrum − my Encyclia cordigera rosea
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Geoff,
Mine is very typical form, do you see the color of the plant and the shriveled bulbs? LOTs of Sun heat, and general neglect (lack of water and fert) and abuse! It is hard to bring your self to do but look at these flowers!

> At first glance looked like an English sweet pea ! I have not
> managed to flower my plant of this species, as yet. Do you think
> this is a typical form ?

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Wildcatt orchid database
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Thanks for that Norma − I did in fact get a belated reply from Wildcatt this
a.m. saying that an April08 ( so they are still in business() version should
run on Vista. But I know from bitter experience that 64 bit systems are
picky − it depends on what drivers are in the programme , it seems. So I
went back with a query ; if they will guarantee it I expect I'll buy the
updated version anyway.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] wartsy epidendrum
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

I would go along with quarantine − just get it away from the others
somewhere . But ; problem. Some viruses only show up this way . What is to
be done, keep it in quarantine for a year ?
Would be difficult for me !
Geoff

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Bulbophyllum medusae
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

> Here is some advice for future growers of this plant. Do not mount
> it. If it is mounted, take it off and plant it in a basket or
> shallow pan. I have my plant for over 10 years and it was mounted.
> So I left it like that and it grew poorly. One or two flowers per
> year that was all.Actually it grew 'backwards'. It became less of
> what it was originally. It produced on or two new bulbs, but it
> lost also the same number of bulbs. So, no progress. 4 years ago I
> planted it into the basket and it took off like weeds. In 2006 − 6
> flowers, in 2007 − 9 flowers, and this year, so far 10 and another
> 6 coming. Most likely I have to move it into a bigger basket when
> it finished flowering.

From: jeff parkes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] OFF TOPIC ( ORCHID PICTURES )
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Thanks Geoff
I want to get a dedicated macro lens for my Nikon so was interested to see what you have been using.
Yes for 1:1 with the digital its a choice really between the 105mm or 60 mm f2.8
I only changed to serious digital last year so am on the learning curve again
Its always nice to see peoples actual pictures .
Thanks
Jeff

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Ascocentrum miniatum
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Beautiful flowers, beautiful pictures. Unfortunately one
has an incorrect name.
Ascocentrum miniatum is not the correct name. This Asco. is definitively
a hybrid. I attach a picture of the real Ascocentrum miniatum. This picture
was taken from an article in Orchids Australia, December 1995, pages 18,19
by Jim Cootes and Eric A. Christenson:
The Orange Flowered Ascocentrum Species.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it is a very beautiful Ascocentrum.
Very good shape and a clear colout.
Kinds regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

> ...a few pics to brighten your day − six with one e-mail and five
> to follow in another e-mail.

From: John J. Rupp
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Lycaste culture.
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

What do you think of using your Paph mix for Phrags? I have a Phrag in
a bark mix, and it is getting time to repot it. I have always heard
that Paphs and Phrags had similar culture but to keep the Phrags
wetter. Any thoughts?

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Epidendrum Cashen's Chocolate Rose
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

I thought I'd put in a new title rather than condemn it more permanently
with the name Wartsy epidendrum!

When I first saw the problem I thought they were beads of the nectar-lik
e
ooze that spikes produce in high light conditions because they were all
showing some fungal growth. It was only when I wiped it off that I
realised what was happening.

I was inclined to think it a physiological disorder in response to the
fungus though a friend who saw it suggested a sucking insect − hence my
query. I think your comment Geoff on the distribution of the nodules is

I am away for a week or so now but when I return I will take some microsc
ope
sections..........

I wouldn't keep a dubious plant to save UKP15 but I have had this plant f
or
many years and I am very fond of it and − most importantly − I think it i
s
not likely to be a virus. I am also careful about infection control
measures in the orchid house. In past years I have burned many a plant f
or
fear of virus only to find later that they were simple physiological
problems. Nowadays I am a bit more relaxed and I am willing to wait and
see.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] photos
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008

Can't say I totally agree with you, some of the cheap supermarket Phals, look a bit woeful with propeller like flowers, what ever the colour, but a big 10cm plus white, with the top petals touching sure is a joy and does take some beating. However you don't get those for two or three pounds in a supermarket. The best white I ever had was Zuma White Puff which produced 11cm plus flowers with the top petals often overlapping. I had the plant for 3/4 years then it just faded away.I have tried to replace it but at this time have not been successful.
Ronbow.

I like scented plants and here is a nice one for the kitchen window I think. Easy to grow, likes low temps, delicious scent that drifts around the room and attractive blooms too.
Regards
Alex Scott

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re-naming and labels.
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

Unfortunately what we all see may not be quite as simple as that − in
the good old days taxonomists tried to use the same criteria as were
used for all flowering plants, I'm sure, but in many ways, when you get
down to the basics, orchid flowers are amazingly similar. Colour and the
overall shape of flowers are unfortunately not very good criteria,
scientifically, as it tends to group species together that have little
relation to each other, while it seperates others from their nearest
relatives.

At the bottom of this mess it is all about subjectivity: each botanist
will have their own idea about which features are important and which
are not, and too little is known about orchids to set up a clear and
unambiguous set of rules. There are simply too many species, and in many
cases they seem to form a continuum rather than a group of distinct species.

Now we have finally got a tool that just might give us an objective way
to distinguish orchids from each other: genetic analysis. But it is
going to years, if not decades, and in the meantime we will just have to
live with things as they are.

I don't think it is too bad. Personally I feel it is quite exciting at
the moment; and instead of trying to keep up with the latest names, I
just enjoy my plants − they are the same, after all. When it all settles
down, I'll just go and relabel everything, that is why my plant labels
have numbers, not names on them: it's a lot easier to change the names
in my big black book instead of having to make a new label.

> Taxonomic botanists should stick to common sense and VISUAL recognition, as that is what we all SEE when we look at plants.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coel. ochracea
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

From: Jean Lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Roger and Alex
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

Thanks for the mix info Roger. I'll look out for it and do a Garden Centre search around this area this afternoon:) Alex − what a wonderful C.Ochracea − one of my favourite orchids. I have three − one of which flowered this year and I'm looking forward to them getting to the size of yours when I hope the number of spikes will increase. − Jean

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: epiphytic paphs
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

Hello All, after my recent enquiry about paph lawrencianum i have decided to try and grow it mounted, unfortunately i can find no info on mounting paphs and there preferences.Also i cant find any piccys of lawrencianum in the wild, can anyone recomend a good site to look at piccys of mounted paphs;wild or domestic?does any one out there grow paphs mounted?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.happy growing!
Gavin

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] photos
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

The problem in getting good white phallys was ( past tense) that white is
the colour of mourning in the far east , generally . Hence there is little
demand for white flowers in their home market, and even for displays, the
did not want to use white. If this seems odd, just change the word white in
the foregoing, to black, and consider UK. Not a lot of demand for black
flowers, who wants a house full of black flowers, etc etc.

But they have caught on to the western like of white, and so we are
beginning to see nice whites as well as the coloured ones.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: My yellow bulbo.
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

I have spent some time looking through Emly Siegerist's book, but get no
clue to what the specific name is − but it's a big genus with over 2700
published species .

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Lycaste culture.
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

Yes I had thought of using it for my first Phrag, which I had intended to
buy last week, but it did not happen.

Maybe some time in the near future I will buy a Phrag, try my mix and then
let you know how it fares.

> Hi Rocky,
>
> What do you think of using your Paph mix for Phrags? I have a Phrag in a
> bark mix, and it is getting time to repot it. I have always heard that
> Paphs and Phrags had similar culture but to keep the Phrags wetter. Any
> thoughts?

From: Alex Scott
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Coel. ochracea
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

Yes, nitida is a synonym for ochracea or the other way round, not sure
really. The one in the pic is var. lemoinei, it lacks the brown edge to the
yellow in the lip. Jay Pfahl's list has them both.
Regards, Alex

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Lycaste culture.
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

I potted a phrag in Rocky's mix a few weeks ago and so far it seems
very happy. I will keep you posted on it's progress.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coel. ochracea
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008

Unless this is another re-naming job, the two − nitida and ochracea are
quite distinct.

I have seen nitida in the wild − it was growing on the top of the highest
mountain in Thailand, which from memory is Doi Inthanon, and most of that
area is a National Park . It is an interesting example of the very picky
nature of orchid seeds germinating in the wild. I only found it at one site.
Growing always on the vertical boles (trunks) of trees of a single species,
and I can't remember what sort of tree it was, if I ever knew anyway.
Moreover, there was a good clump of those trees − the size of those copses
you see on the English downs in the middle of large areas of open grassland
or arable − and you know it's the site of a round barrow (tumulus- late
Neolithic burial chamber or whatever) . But, even more picky than that ;
they only grew on trees on the edge of the clump looking into an open area,
and only on one side ( one compass point) − so perhaps on a dozen trees ,
and even then, the plant had started from the point most remote from the
centre of the copse − but in many cases had grown into a belt completely
encircling the tree ( bole dia, from memory say 25 cm ) and up and down for
the same sort of dimension. Very pretty snow white flowers, scented,
rather wider than ochracea ( see below) and taller too. I do have some
slides somewhere − but my 5000 plus slides from my orchid life are in an
untidy un-indexed state....rather like my brain I suppose !

Burnham Nurseries used to sell it every spring − in fact I can recall a
Chelsea flower show many years ago when they had a bank of it in their
display. The bulbs are like a piece of my middle finger , perhaps 2 inches
high on a good one ; light green − paler than a Granny Smith apple. Niida
has bulbs more like the shape of a decent tulip bulb, and quite a dark
green. I'm quite sure that the plant in your pic is the same as the ones
sold by Burnham for very many years as C.ochracea.

Incidentally, whilst I have no data for C.ochracea in the wild, C. Nitida is
certainly subject to a touch of frost on one or two nights in cold winters.
I remember reading in the English language newspaper they used to have at
the nearby city of Changmai that a temp of minus 2 had been recorded on the
mountain one night − with the comment , the lowest temp this decade − which
registered on us as we had spent a sleepless shivering night at a Hill Tribe
lodge in a stilted hut with a wall of thin bamboo between us and the
exterior , on the same night , albeit we were a couple of thousand feet
lower down the mountain.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] epiphytic paphs
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008

Catherine Cash "The Slipper Orchids" says " Growing on river banks...this
species roots in detritus and moss..."

Phillip Cribb "The Genus Paphiopedilum" 2nd ed. says "According to Veitch
(1889) it is found in primary forest in small colonies growing in deep leaf
litter ..."

Now when I saw small jewel orchids growing in deep leaf litter on the floor
of a forest somewhere, it occurred to me to wonder how it was that they were
not buried by the leaf-fall . In mixed tropical forest there is some leaf
fall all the time, it seems, not just September (!). I realised that they
must do two things − grow very fast , and grow upwards.

> Hello All, after my recent enquiry about paph lawrencianum i have decided to
> try and grow it mounted, unfortunately i can find no info on mounting paphs
> and there preferences.Also i cant find any piccys of lawrencianum in the
> wild, can anyone recomend a good site to look at piccys of mounted
> paphs;wild or domestic?does any one out there grow paphs mounted?
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.happy growing!

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coel. ochracea
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008

Yes − I have been doing a bit of research too − Dudley Clayton has Nitida as
the right name and ochracea as a synonym. I have also checked several South
East Asian references but got no further.

Of course the obvious answer is that either the plants which Brian
Rittershausen sold for many years were a sub-species, or he got the name
wrong at the beginning , leading to a whole generation who would think like
me − they know what ochracea looks like − and if shown the plants which were
identified for me by National Park staff as nitida, they would agree that a
different species was involved. Or maybe the Thai people got nitida wrong.
Who knows. But I remain convinced the two things I was talking about are
probably distinct species.

But as I have been saying elsewhere , I'm not starting a herbarium , and
although I do like to have the correct name on a plant , I'm not going to
lose any sleep over it if I have one different from what you think it should
be − whoever you are.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Attention Geoff
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008

Thanks Tricia − I did know that Symantec had been fiddling about with it
(clock) − when they reinstalled my Norton programmes by remote control ;
I'll go and set it right.

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coel. ochracea
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008

They are the same according to Dudley Clayton and the Kew Monocot
Catalogue. Other persons say that bloom periods and fragrance are
quite different, and that there are subtle morphological
differences. We may have a good analysis on this in another year or
two as a graduate student at Leiden is working on this group of species.

From: Bhotplant@aol.com
Message-ID:
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Coel. ochracea
To: Orchid Talk List

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Attention Geoff
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008

Geoff, your new computer/OS has a clock problem − your mail yesterday
was dated 03 May, todays are dated 04 May. It has at least got the
correct year...

From: rudolf günnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] epiphytic paphs
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008

Of course I also read reports about epiphytically growing Paphs but this
always gegarded Paphs of the subgenus Polyantha (e.g. rothschildianum,
sanderianum and others) less than of the other subgenera e.g. Sigmatopetalum
(with lawrenceanum), Paphiopedilum or Cochlopetalum.
I understand those reports − I've got to admit I never saw Paphs growing in
situ in their habitats in the wild − in the way that some Paphs are able
either to grow terrestrially or under specific conditions even
epiphytically.
From my own experiences I never would dare to grow Paph. lawrenceanum
mounted except under conditions that guarantee figures of humidity above 70
% permanently e.g. nearby a running fogging system.
Paphs roots are very sensitive due to the lack of a covering and protecting
velamen and therefore liable to dry out / wither. The probability is very
high that this will happen to a mounted Paph in a green house / conservatory
on a hot summer day when the humidity drops down far below 60 %.
BTW Paphs roots are even able to adapt to constantly wetness therefore Paphs
can grow happily in hydroculture or semi-hydroculture.
I'm also member of an online Paph forum and though there are many
member/contributors from all around the world (e.g. also Roy Lee) I never
read or heard that anybody grows his Paphs mounted.
But if you want to give it a try, please keep us posted about the results.
Best regards from Germany, rudolf

From: rudolf günnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Paph supardii
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008

At the moment Paph supardii is in flower and I thought I should share some
photos with you.
It is flowering with 4 flowers but you will see only three of them. To be
honest the flower at the top of the stem is misshaped − it's pouch is nearly
missing and it looks like a poor freak. Although this happened I'm very
pleased with this plant and to use some words I learned from Rocky − I'm
chuffed about it !!
The flowering growth has a leaf span of 75 cm that's not really huge but the
plant needs its space like it's close relatives of the subgenus Polyantha
(rothschildianum, sanderianum and so on).

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] epiphytic paphs
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008

Hi Rudolf, thanks for your input, i will be trying to grow my Lawrencianum mounted, i can give a regular humidity of about 65-7o% as i grow indoors under lights so things are a little more controlable. I will publish some results and piccy's in six months so everyone can see how well it goes.Happy growing!
p.s.Are you a member of the slipper orchid forum?
Gavin

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: native orchids
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008

Hi All, today(18/05/08) i had a wonderful walk on whitmoor in wiltshire, I dont know if what i sore is usual or not;but i found quite a few common spotted orchids in flower and many going over as well, also i found a fare few twayblades in the early stages of flowering. It was a real pleasure to see both these native species and i hope to find many more species this year as ive decided to make a concerted effort to find all i can from now on. Any pointers to good locations in the wilts area (unless its something really special) would be gratefully received.Hear are a few piccy's for your pleasure!happy growing!Gavin

From: Jean Lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: paph photos
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008

Those are fabulous Paphs Rudolph you must be very pleased with them. I'm becoming much fonder of Paphs than I used to be and have about 6 now and have just sent to Italy for another two − regards − Jean

From: Alex Scott
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Coel. ochracea
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008

Yes, I got mine from Burnham some time ago. Incidentally there is an
interesting account in the Review of a trip by Peter Williams to a National
Park on a mountain in Thailand which sounds like the place you went to.
My C. ochracea has flowered better this year after quite a cold spell in my
garage window, dropped to 6C occasionally.
Regards, Alex

> Unless this is another re-naming job, the two − nitida and ochracea are
> quite distinct.

From: Alex Scott
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Roger and Alex
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Thank you Jean − I am sure yours will get masses of spikes. I havent
repotted mine BTW as they dont seem to like it and have kept it quite cold
this winter.
Regards, Alex

> Alex − what a wonderful C.Ochracea − one of my favourite orchids. I
> have three − one of which flowered this year and I'm looking
> forward to them getting to the size of yours when I hope the number
> of spikes will increase. − Jean

From: Jean Lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: native orchids
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Excellent photos Gavin and some lovely orchids. We have quite alot of them around this way − also white ones although the name escapes me at the moment − Jean

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Gavin's orchid trip.......up !!!
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Nice to see your photos and to hear that you are very keen on our native orchids, but you will have to have a damned good look at all of the parts of a plant and then have a damned good look at one or more very good books.

Common Spotted Orchid.....cobblers, ha, ha. It's all right folks, Gavin and I live not that far from each other and we have spoken on the phone a few times.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: off message
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

I came out of the greenhouse half an hour ago , and happened to look up and
saw a Red Kite ( bird). I think the shape is very distinctive, so I am
convinced I got it right.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] My yellow bulbo.
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Tis picture is perfect. I wish, I could do them like this.
Kinds regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Bulbophyllum medusae
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Hi Esther,
It is a mixture of small pieces of pine bark, fern roots,
sphagnum moss and coarse river sand.
Regards
Peter

> Hi Peter,
>
> That is interesting to know. What media do you use in the basket?
Chat online and in real-time with friends and family! Windows Live Messenger

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: While sorting Phalaenopsis jpgs from the WOC 19 I came across this stinker.
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

I have a few hundred jpgs from the World Orchid Conference and I am now working on the Phalaenopsis and will soon post a movie clip. My site: www.togofcoralgables.com has new move clips. The enclosed picture may find lovers but for me it's the worst Phal that I have ever seen. This is what you get when the judges award heavy texture and dark colors.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: While sorting Phalaenopsis jpgs from the WOC 19 I came across this stinker.
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

If you didn't see the picture open it with 'Show quoted text' or 'Display
images'

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] off message
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Last year the Red Kites were just to the north of the M5, so you could be right. Are you sure it was not a Buzzard ??

Years ago, I had to go all the way to the Corfe Castle area in Dorset [Isle of Purbeck] to see Buzzards, but they are now two a penny in this [our] area.

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Gavin's orchid trip.......up !!!
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Hi Rocky thanks for the correction on the orchid name, i thought it wasn't as speckly as i remembered from last year(the flower that is), on the bright side though i found my first group of early purple's.i will be going back to the same site in june as i now know there are common spotted and bee orchids there to.Can you let me have the name of a good book! as my wild flower book doesn't have good close piccy's of the orchids!Rocky can you ring me and recomend some easy sites to find as i know your a hardy orchid buff.Happy growing
Gavin

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: UK Native Orchids.
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Jean and Gavin, It is just about our only orchid that has those large somewhat circular markings on the leaves. Blackish-purple in colour.

1. The markings will sit astride the leaf central vein. Not so with all other orchids, although of course there will always be the odd case.

2. Have a look at the underside of the leaf.....more markings, just a few, and they are not the upper markings that have percolated through.....separate markings. I know of no other orchid that has markings on the underside of the leaves.

Gavin me old mate, your third photo....the one in tight bud is of a Common Spotted Orchid. And thanks for putting it in as you have shown many observation points.

1. The markings are generally this shape.....I call them 'Sausage shaped' markings.

2. The markings will go right up to the central vein.....but they do not sit across it.

3. The bottom two leaves [one each side of the stem] are MUCH wider than all the others.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] paph photos
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Please let me know what your Paphs are like from 'Italy'. Is that our friends 'Azienda Agricola' ???

Hi Jean, what area are you from if its close id love to come and look
around.Happy Growing!
Gavin
> Excellent photos Gavin and some lovely orchids. We have quite alot of them
> around this way − also white ones although the name escapes me at the
> moment − Jean

From: Mr G.Horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] off message
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Hi Geoff, i would not be surprised to see red kites down in the dorset
area,as they have been secretly in hampshire(Andover area) for a few years
now.Happy Growing!
Gavin

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Te rainy season has started here, yesterday we had a real "toad strangler" It was as strong as any hurricane I have ever seen (but without the wind....

I have been re-potting some 100 cymbidiums and a bunch of other Oncidiums. The pots are full of Slugs What do you all use to kill these little bastards? Metomil, metaaldehido? This breaks down when water touches it so in the rainy season it is almost of no use.

I think I need something strong (like napalm) to put around the border to keep them out. The border of my greenhouse is the jungle and we cut it back very often but stuff here will grow on concrete.

What do you all use as insecticide or what do you hear other people use...?
Thanks.

From: John W Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] off message
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008

Hi Geoff,
There have been reports of southern counties sightings for a while now, but I didn't know they'd become coastal. near you. However,see for eg.,(as if I need to tell you!):

They have app-arently got S to Dawlish in the SW bur I don't have a line of latitude handy!

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

I have heard that cloudy ammonia added to your water (4:1 or weaker) and poured through the pots once a week gets rid of slugs & snails. I tried it out on a few slugs that were wandering in places that they shouldn't be, and they decided that dying was a better prospect than cloudy ammonia. Don't leave the stuff lying around as I am sure it will evaporate. Mix it and use it. The ammonia breaks down into nitrogen which orchids love.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Gavin's orchid trip.......up !!!
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

A great orchid book is Native orchids of Britain, by David Lang. If you check on the net, you can find some cheap good copies. Also, the same book is on the net (can't remember the address), and you can check the pictures and descriptions at your will.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] off message
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

Hi Rog' I was quite positive about the red kite − the only other bird with
the same silhouette from one angle is one I have seen in the tropics − I
think it was Frigate Bird − and global warming or not I guess that
twitchers would be swarming in from all Europe if one of those was about !

And no, I'm sure it was not a buzzard , I remember being thrilled when those
were first seen in Warwickshire, and I guess they are common all over UK now
; certainly I see them occasionally down here although any self-respecting
Buzzard seeing Bournemouth in the distance is likely to do a U turn .

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

I use the little blue pellets made by Bayer ( although they appear in many
different makers packs and names. But as you say , rain destroys them − they
stand a light shower, but not your kind of rain.

Have you thought of bait ? A few years ago I had a terrible problem with
them in my garden when I lived in a vegetable growing area of the country. I
used little pots ( the kind we get cream or yoghourt in) and sunk them into
the ground so as to be flush with soil level, then filled with beer. I had
well over a hundred of them, one every few yards along the garden path both
sides ( I had a very long − 100 yards) narrow garden at that house − the
greenhouse at the far end). I used so much beer that I made it − home brew -
by the gallon. After a few weeks I would empty the pots − by then fully of
decomposing slug mush ( ugh ! )

I used to catch a few that way − they were attracted by the smell, came to
sip , and a few fell in and had a happy death. But most I caught by walking
along the path at dusk with a long bamboo cane ; and all the voyeurs who
came to look got encouraged ( pushed in). I would count as I went along, and
on a good night I would get over 50 , on a rainy or damp warm evening over a
100.

Then, following the idea that they come out in the greenhouse at night -
strictly speaking, when it first gets dark − I started going out with a
torch , and I discovered that after a warm day they came out of the lawn -
where presumably dew was trapped making the damp conditions they love − and
I'd find them in twos − copulating. I kept a special pair of scissors, and
snip, snip − where there were two there were now four − although the four
were not quite so active after a bit. I'd sometimes get several hundred that
way in a single evening.

That summer I kept tally, and got to a score over 11000 before I got tired
of counting.

Some soft-hearted folk pick them up and throw them over the garden wall − or
even carry them down the road. It does not work. Their movement is so
random, they could be back again tomorrow; The best you can do is keep
killing them as they come, but some attraction to divert them from the
orchids has to be worthwhile. I have read of using apples, carrots or
grapefriuit as bait ; but I don't want a garden full of decaying fruit. The
little pots were very discreet.

By the way , the next year we had a drought − no rain for two months, then a
thunderstorm, then more dry weather. What slug problem?. It seems that the
natural population ( in UK anyway) fluctuates between extremes, depending on
the weather , and in a bad year ( for slugs) there may be only 1 for every
100 there are in a bad year for orchid growers.

> Te rainy season has started here, yesterday we had a real "toad strangler"
> It was as strong as any hurricane I have ever seen (but without the wind....

> I have been re-potting some 100 cymbidiums and a bunch of other Oncidiums.
> The pots are full of Slugs...

Hi Rocky,
Yes we have ordered from Nardotto e Capello again. Our local society orders 3 − 4 times a year. The plants have always been first class and the paphs I have ordered as advertised as having flower spikes so I'm looking forward to receiving them at the end of this week. I'll photograph them so that you can see what they are like and yes as soon as possible they will be transferred to your mix. All my other paphs are now in it and doing very well so thanks for that − Jean

From: Jean Lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchis Mascula
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

Roger I forgot to say thanks for the info on Orchis Mascula. We seems to have thousands of Dactylorhiza (spelling?) this way and some of the white ones but I'm not sure of the name − Ladies Tresses I think is the common name. I'll look out for the Orchis Mascula. Oh we also have a few Bee Orchis − Ophrys something or other. Jean

Geoff we have lots of Red Kites now in Mid Wales. We visited a farm a few years ago and they have been undertaking conservation for years. They feed the Red Kites at the same time every day and have hides that the public can go into and watch. It was so fascinating − a farm truck went out and starte scattering food for them and the sky was filled with them circling around and then swooping down to pick up food and then off they flew to the treetops. I did manage to get a few photos but they were not much good as they were too far away. I can now spot a Red Kite by the markings under the wings. It is so wonderful to see them and it sounds really good if there numbers are growing and if they are now flying further south. − Jean

Hi Gavin,
I'm living in Barry − The Vale of Glamorgan − South Wales − where are you? I have to say that we travel as little as possible by car these days:) − Jean

From: Jean Lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Phalaenopsis
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

What lovely photographs and wonderful Phals jns. I like these vibrant colours in a Phal. I'll look at your website later to see more of them. Jean

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] off message
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

> Hi Rog' I was quite positive about the red kite − the only other
> bird with the same silhouette from one angle is one I have seen in
> the tropics − I think it was Frigate Bird − and global warming or
> not I guess that twitchers would be swarming in from all Europe if
> one of those was about !

> And no, I'm sure it was not a buzzard , I remember being thrilled
> when those were first seen in Warwickshire, and I guess they are
> common all over UK now ; certainly I see them occasionally down
> here although any self-respecting Buzzard seeing Bournemouth in the
> distance is likely to do a U turn .

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Red Kites
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

We regularly see Red Kites here; it is rumoured there is at least one
pair nesting in nearby trees. A breed-and-release programme which has
been in operation for a number of years by The Hawk Conservancy is
proving very successful and it is quite possible that one of their
release sites is near Geoff's district.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Red Kites
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Gavin's orchid trip.......up !!!
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

I still think that the best book is 'Wild Orchids of Britain' by V. S. Summerhayes. It's one of the ' New Naturalist' series of books. First printed 1951, with many re-prints. ISBN 0 00 219549 6

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

Please tell us more, especially if we want to buy some, what does the label say etc. etc. And where should we buy it from.

> I have heard that cloudy ammonia added to your water (4:1 or
> weaker) and poured through the pots once a week gets rid of slugs &
> snails. I tried it out on a few slugs that were wandering in places
> that they shouldn't be, and they decided that dying was a better
> prospect than cloudy ammonia. Don't leave the stuff lying around as
> I am sure it will evaporate. Mix it and use it. The ammonia breaks
> down into nitrogen which orchids love.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

Tony,
Do you have any more info cloudy amonia? What strength is it? What type a store do they sell it in?
Thanks,
Jim

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

I rather think that cloudy ammonia will be on the poisons list in UK − and
Health & Safety will insist on you wearing a diving suit and doing a 3 year
training course before you get it . But tell me I'm wrong, if you can.

Unlike the years when I first grew orchids and I could walk into a shop
called a drysalters and buy a gallon of concentrated sulphuric acid...

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

I thought the same but a quick Google shows it as household ammonia,
a cleaning product, which can be bought online from:
http://www.heritage-homeandgarden.co.uk/index.php?cPath939_984_986
and, presumably, from places such as hardware stores.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

wow sounds great! What do you think of mixing it with my fertilizer and appling it together?

Here is the original article that brought it to my attention. My good lady wife gets it from the local supermarket for me.

Larry Clemmons, an accomplished hosta grower from Dubuque , had an almost slug-free gorgeous garden last year while many of his friends from nearby towns were being overrun. Unlike the beer and lightweight chemicals they were using, Larry was spraying the hosta once a week or so with a dilute solution of plain old ammonia. The slugs hate the ammonia and the plants love the nitrogen. He uses a regular inexpensive tank and nozzle sprayer and went over and down into each plant-and he has a lot of them. He sprays the hostas with a dilute (4:1 or even weaker) solution of water and household ammonia in the evening once a week-more often in the spring or with a lot of rain. It would take him no more than two hours a week and there were almost no slug holes. The folks visiting from Iowa City which was being inundated by molluscs were astounded by his lush foliage just a few miles away and many have adopted his system.
By Robert C. Olson

These are all plants that I have for many years and they bloom
every year at the same time.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Gavin's orchid trip.......up !!!
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Wales
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

hI jEAN, I AM IN SALISBURY, WILTS, A LIITLE FAR APART, BUT FOR A GOOD COLLECTION OF DIFFERENT NATIVE ORCHIDS I WOULD COME AND VISIT, WHAT DO YOU THINK! happy growing!
Gavin

HI all, thanks Roger and Francis for your book suggestions and im looking forward to seeing those sights with you Rocky. Ive attached two foliage piccys from yesterday, which clarifies the points of identification that Roger was making. The first is the common spotted and the second is the early purple (i hope) Happy growing
Gavin

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Gavin's orchid trip.......up !!!
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

Those New Naturalist books were brilliant. But Collins once told me that
they are all out of date, that's why they won't reprint them,, although they
are often asked . This was a few years ago − maybe Collins don't exist now.

> I still think that the best book is 'Wild Orchids of Britain' by V. S.
> Summerhayes. It's one of the ' New Naturalist' series of books. First
> printed 1951, with many re-prints. ISBN 0 00 219549 6

From: Mr G.Horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Gavin's orchid trip.......up !!!
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

Hi to whom has mailed to say the prin ts are in b&w, i think you need to
check your settings as ive just downloaded them and there in colour!Happy
growing!
Gavin

This is my best Lycaste. Named after Betty Garton of Wyld Court fame. It measures 15cm wide and was awarded an AM RHS in 1952.
Regards from a glorious Devon. Dennis

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Native Orchids.
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008

Gavin, your two photos.....I would say that you were 'Spot' on with your naming.

Jean, yes you have the spelling correct.....The Dactylorhiza group with the most common names are, the Early Marsh Orchid, the Common Marsh Orchid, the Common Spotted Orchid and the Heath Spotted Orchid. And don't these buggers cross pollinate with each other. I am very lucky living in the New Forest as the heath Spotted Orchid grows here in the thousands, and then the two Marsh orchids also grow here. The surrounding chalk soil is loved by the Common Spotted, so we get all four cross pollinating and we don;t half get some terrific looking offspring.

Ladies Tresses it is Jean, but have a trip to where they are and you should still be able to see the leaf rosette.....which soon will disappear.

The Bee Orchid you say, then Ophrys something or other...........something or other, hell, I'll smack your wrist. Did you know the meaning of the word 'Ophrys' ?????? As a lady, you often pay much attention to them.....EYEBROWS. Ophrys is a Greek word meaning 'eyebrow.

When they are in flower 'bout the middle of June, have a good look at the flower face on, see the two little black beady eyes, and then just above the eyes are the two 'eyebrows' or petals. And have a look at the little appendage at the back of the lip, and note its position, as all of the Ophrys species have this little 'leg' or whatever, and each species has it in a different position.

The Fly Orchid, Ophrys Insectifera is a real treat. The books tell us that, like the others in this Genus, it grows its leaves in the Autumn like its cousins, but my friend and I dispute this fact. We have looked at plants over a few years and we are sure that it does not grow a new set of leaves in the Autumn. Let's face it, it grows up in Sweden where the Winters are much colder then here, so I doubt if it would be sane to have your leaves on top of the soil through their type of Winters.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

Thanks Tricia − ask them for your commission on my order !
I'll give it a whirl.
One thing, I don't like the smell of ammonia − you don't know of any gas
mask suppliers too by any chance ? (joke)
Geoff

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Some pics
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

I once saw a Portia grown in a box 4 feet x 4 feet − with I forget how many
hundred flowers . I guess the grower is long since gone to the land where
Cattleyas flower 4 times a year and there are no slugs, scales, thrips.....

> These are all plants that I have for many years and they bloom every year at
> the same time.

Hi Gavin,
The place to see many wild orchids is at the Kenfig Nature Reserve − at a guess 25-30 miles west of us here in Barry. I'll give the url of their website below. It has quite undulating land for the first half and then opens out into a more flat area where most of the orchids are. Ray and I haven't been their for a couple of years because of the uneven ground and arthritis of knees makes it a painful place for us to visit. Give me a day or two and I'll get to the Barry ones to photograph what there is. There aren't enough I would think to make such a long journey but I'll try to get a good photo so that you can make up your mind about that. They are in a woodland area in the Porthkerry Country Park which is a short way from here. I won't be able to get there until Friday or Saturday as we are out for the day tomorrow but will get back to you as soon as poss. Here is the website for the Kenfig Nature Reserve so you can have a browse around. They also give a contact number so that you could check on the best time to visit if you think it worth the journey − regards Jean

lol so you'll resort to violence then Rocky! I consider my wrist slapped:) Thanks for all the info. I'll print it out and be armed with knowledge when I pop down to see the local ones. Unfortunately the Bee Orchid is a bit too far for me to go in June but one of our local members is growing one successfully with her alpine plants. She brought it to the last meeting to let us see how it is progressing and it looks really good − Jean

Beautiful photos Peter and Dennis − thanks fo sending them − a feast for eager eyes!lol − Jean

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: thanks jean
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

Hi Jean, many thanks for the info, i coudn't find the kenfig web address can you send it again!i also look forward to your photos but please be careful on the rough ground;id feel terrible if you hurt yourself. Hopefully im going out again myself this weekend so i might have some more piccy's of iris's(a joke there for Rocky) to show next weekend. If anyone has any places they think i could visit to see orchids in the wiltshire-Dorset-somerset area i'd be most grateful, being only a novice and fairly new to wilts im short of ideas.I look forward to your response eagerly everyone.happy growing!
Gavin

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: restrepia tabeae (Dennis)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

Hi all, here is a lesson in just how slow some plants are to take from cuttings. I dont know if you remember Dennis last year at a Dos meeting, i think it was april; you gave me about 10 leaf cuttings of restrepia's to share with Colin. Anyway i got them home and a month or so later they all started to produce new leafs except one,restrepia tabeae. So i waited and watched for the next couple months, still nothing, then i lost interest until about a month ago when i came across it again; and guess what still nothing! So i had a quiet word with the cutting informing it of its fate and gave it a compost heap date if it persisted with its current performance. It must of put the fear of death into it as two weeks ago it started producing a new leaf about a year since the cutting was received.It makes me wonder just how many plants i could of wasted in giving up on them. Anyway many thanks Dennis, and if you ever have anymore cuttings etc you want to trade please let me know!Happy growing!
Gavin

From: gavin horne
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Bulbophyllum rhizomes
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

Hi All, i have a few bulbos that need repotting and some attention soon, my main problem is getting some of them back growing in and on the pot, is there a way to treat the rhizomes so they can be u-turned or bent a little without damage to return them to contact with the substrate.happy growing!
Gavin

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cattleya gurus which is it?
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

It looks like a Cat. warneri, But it also looks like labiata, trianaei, jenmanii , mossiae, and there are others. Which is t anyone know?

If you look here http://www.chadwickorchids.com/Cattleya/index.htm
Art wrote a bunch of wonderful articles I refer to a lot!
But I am not sure which it is. When the ticket disapears on my plants my helper always says just wait till it flowers, but he was no help here either.
Jim

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Restrepia tabeae
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

Gavin, This is always ,I find, a difficult one to root as is R. flosculata.
Patience is a virtue ..... I will not continue in case I upset the equality police.
Regards Dennis

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Slugs etc.
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

I always use the Sluggit water on method but I have just been told a sure way of keeping them at bay. Boil up a full clove of garlic in a pint of water untill it is soft. Then mash it up in the boiled water and dilute with a gallon of water and water over the plants (Hostas in this case) Personally I could not abide my orchid house smelling like a continental transport cafe
but in the open it may work.
Regards Dennis

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Jim's Cattleya.
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Areas to visit.
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

You wrote, If anyone has any places they think i could visit to see orchids in the Wiltshire-Dorset-Somerset area I'd be most grateful, being only a novice and fairly new to wilts im short of ideas.I look forward to your response eagerly everyone.happy growing!

So what's wrong with the South West corner of Hampshire.....known as 'The New Forest' ????? Or have you not got your visa cleared yet ???

I saw Jeans reference to orchids in her area and the Mention of 'Kenfig'. I remember the Gower Peninsula and going there to see and photograph the Fen Orchid.......................bloody waste of time, petrol, etc. It's a most miserable 'nothing' orchid. Yes it is one of our forty nine species, but believe me, it sure is a turn off.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Peter's photos.
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

You said 'some' pictures. The emphasis must be on the SOME pictures as they are an orchid growers delight. You must be highly chuffed.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] slugs, balbozas (spanish) in the pots -
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

Well, would you Adam and Eve it !!! Just last evening I filled a bowl of
water with household bleach/ammonia and a tiny drop of Jeyes fluid and
immersed a Phally in it. Just below the rim of the pot.

Now just this one Phally had two buds eaten, part of the damned new leaf was
also chewed and one of the two flower spikes had been chewed.

I'm damned if I could see or understand what 'critter' was responsible for
the damage.

This morning I had a damned good look at the top layer of my rock chippings,
where the roots dive down, AND THERE WAS A BLACK SLUG.......WELL AND TRULY
DEAD.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Roger
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

Just a bit m ore ammunition for you. You may remember that I do like a bit of the Botanical Language...when it makes sense that is.

So, the Bee Orchid, or Ophrys apifera. I Bee Keeper is known as ???????? and where hives are kept is a ???????

From: rudolf günnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] epiphytic paphs
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

I hope Tricia will apologise my impoliteness to mention another forum in her
forum. Tricia, I'm sure you will do !!
No I'm not a member of the Slipper Orichid Forum − I'm a member of
Slippertalk.com.

From: rudolf günnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] paph photos
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

I'm pleased to read that you discovered Paphs as worthy to grow and nice as
well to read your comments here more often again.

>Those are fabulous Paphs Rudolph you must be very pleased with them.
>I'm becoming much fonder of Paphs than I used to be and have about 6 now
>....

From: Jean Lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Gavin et al
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008

Gavin this is the url for the Kenfig National Nature Reserve: http://www.bridgend.gov.uk/Web1/groups/tourism/documents/marketing/001799.hcsp
and also just to let everyone know I will be away all day tomorrow − going to hear the Dalai Lama speak in London so won't be around now until Friday − Jean

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May 2008 Archived Messages

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