2008 mailing list messages

2008 Archived Messages

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From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coca Cola − Citric Acid
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008

Hydrochloric, nitric & sulphuric acids will work but they will dissolve the
metal as well, forming the chloride , nitrate and sulphate of the metal, be
it ferrous, copper, bronze etc. Citric acid is much milder and will dissolve
the salt build up.
Peter Fowler

"PG Hieke" wrote on Monday, January 14:
Re: [OrchidTalk] Coca Cola − Citric Acid

> Coca-Cola didn,t work for me. I left the nozzles in it for 48 hours and
> they are
> still blocked.
> I had two nozzles in Hydrochloric Acid and that worked 100%.
> Now I'm trying Citric Acid. I made a solution and have some nozzles in it.

From: John J. Rupp
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: New pics
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008

While I have followed and agreed with the discussion on cleaning the
nozzles, and found interesting the discussion on CITES, but ughh, I
don't want to go there, I find it most enjoyable to see what others have
blooming, so I include some pictures here of two of my recent blooms.

The Lc. Purple Cascade 'Fragrance Beauty' AM/AOS with the purple splash
is still in bloom with a nice light fragrance and the flowers about 3.5"
across. The white Lc. Eagle Eye 'Victory' also has a nice fragrance
with flowers a bit over 7" across. The flowers were so large that when
the second flower opened, there was insufficient room to let both
flowers spread out naturally. Bummer! After 3.5 weeks, the Lc Eagle
Eye 'Victory' flowers have started to droop. Sure wish I could keep
them going forever.

Just coming into bloom is a supposedly Cattleya maxima which I was told
was collected in Peru. It has gorgeous flower which does not quite
look like C. maxima, but which I like better than any C. maxima I have
ever seen. When I posted the picture last year, no one could identify
it, but only commented that it had a lot of resemblances to C. maxima,
but probably was not.

Hi.
I am wanting to get hold of masdevallia cassiope. I have looked at the
lists of most of the uk based dealers and ecuagenera but have had no
success. If anybody spots this variety I would be grateful to know of its
whereabouts.
Thanks from soggy Hampshire!

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: London Orchid Show
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008

Someone − forget who − made a comment about being bowled over by the
offerings of someone in Taiwan ; I haven't been able to track the message
down.

But in my browsings of dealers web-sites − the dealers listed who are
attending the show, from that country ( only one has a web-site − namely
Orchis Floriculturing -I can't get past the home page.

So where have I gone wrong ? Has anyone else discovered mouth-watering lists
of orchids from Taiwan which we might think of pre-ordering ? Where ? Link
?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] New pics
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008

Like you, I also have a great like for Cattleyas. Your two plants sure look
very nice. The 'White one' and similar types always remind me of two great
hybrids, 'Bow Bells' and 'Bob Betts'.

Your last of the three images shows both flowers and to the right I see what
looks like some damage to the leaf by maybe some type of bugs, yes, no? Can
you please tell me if I am correct, and do you want any ideas as how to keep
the critters at bay.

> While I have followed and agreed with the discussion on cleaning the
> nozzles, and found interesting the discussion on CITES, but ughh, I
> don't want to go there, I find it most enjoyable to see what others have
> blooming, so I include some pictures here of two of my recent blooms.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Pots designed for growing orchids.
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008

I have been complaining for a very long time about the fact that us orchid hobbyists, not necessarily the so called 'Growers', do not have access to pots that have holes and or slots in them.

Fairly recently I did buy a cheapie Dendrobium in a small clay pot that did have pre cut slots in it. And I did hear of at least one orchid establishment that did have them for sale, but I do not think they stock them anymore.

This brings my story on to last Sunday when another friend and orchid nut paid me a visit.

We were looking at a Cattleya that I had purchased from a local Garden Centre and my friend remarked that the pot had cracks in it. I agreed, but them we both had a closer look.

The 'cracks' were in fact pre-formed small slots, as my image shows. I wonder why ?????

My guess is that there have been so many complaints about the type of 'compost' that comes to England from across the Channel being often soggy and wet for a very long time, eventually killing the plant, that something had to be looked at.

I wonder if this will be a 'mould' for the future, and perhaps my dreams will come true when I see plastic pots with holes of all shapes and designs in them similar to the image that I have attached.

Of course, I will still continue to grow in clay pots, but then I cut my own holes.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: London Orchid Show
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008

> Someone − forget who − made a comment about being bowled over by the
> offerings of someone in Taiwan ; I haven't been able to track the message
> down.

I think it was Tony Garthwaite on 8 Jan, referring to the files from Orchis
Floriculturing which you forwarded to the List. The thing is, they don't
say in their message to you if they are actually coming to the Show (they
are on the list but so is the chap who told you he isn't coming).

> But in my browsings of dealers web-sites − the dealers listed who are
> attending the show, from that country ( only one has a web-site − namely
> Orchis Floriculturing -I can't get past the home page.

Well, if you click on the Read More link in their bit about the new English
website, you will see emails from other people complaining they can't get
to the e-catalogue, so they clearly need to sort it out...

> So where have I gone wrong ? Has anyone else discovered mouth-watering
> lists of orchids from Taiwan which we might think of pre-ordering ?
> Where ? Link ?

I put the files on our website:
http://www.orchid-talk.co.uk/links/catalogues.html

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: The North fights back!
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008

The problem with" having a dip" in any thread is that a message can be read
in a light which was not intended . There is a certain amount of joshing
going on you know !

But to take your remarks more seriously than might (?) have been intended,
let me say first that my browser only saves a specific number of most recent
sent and received, so I can't access the whole thread myself , but I believe
I remember some query about why does "the north" not have any or many
orchid nurseries and then some discussion about relative affluence/weather
conditions etc.

The points you make now were not made in the discussion − but since you
chose not to take part, you can hardly blame us for failing to see your
point of view which had not been expressed.

As to your string of "have I never " etc − yes I've been there, done that
etc − but maintain that there is still something of a divide between the
north and south in terms of affluence etc . and hence of the things
affluence buys . No criticism , just stating a fact as I see it.

> Having opted out of orchid-talk, I had a quick look at the website to see
> what I had been missing. I regret that I cannot let your comments expressed
> on 20th November go without challenge.

> Orchid societies in the north are thriving! We do manage to heat our
> greenhouses and buy the plants we consider worthy of growing. Quite a few of
> us are even wealthy enough to travel to EOC, WOC, etc. and to exotic places
> see our favourite species growing in the wild. Sheffield, Harrogate, North
> of England, Cumbria, Cheshire & North Wales, etc, all have regular meetings
> and shows. My own society also arranges, for example, field trips and 'open
> greenhouses'. Have you never visited the Sheffield show at Chatsworth? Or
> the NEOS one at Tatton? Did you not go to the BOC Congresses at Southport
> Conference Centre, Sheffield and Leeds Universities, Llandudno Conference
> Centre? All large and successful events. And the Scottish Orchid Society
> encompasses many regional groups.

> We do have nurseries, too. I am sure that both Mansell & Hatcher and David
> Stead of Leeds would not like you consigning them to history and there are
> several others. Chris Channon, of Deva Orchids, visits the continent each
> month to keep up with demand and will also take orders and search for that
> special species that is difficult to find.

> So you see, there is orchid life up here − please don't give foreign
> orchid-talk members the idea that the north of Britain is an economic
> wasteland where the residents do not want, or cannot afford, the finer
> things in life. Nothing could be further from the truth.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Phragmipdium Kovachii, CITES, and the future.
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008

I would like to think that many of us 'Orchid Buffs' have read all that there is to know about Phragmipedium Peruvianum re-named Phragmipedium Kovachii. And if you have not, then just key in the words 'Phragmipedium Kovachii'. Very interesting reading.

In the beginning there were many of these orchids found growing in Peru, hence the original name.

AND BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A STUNNER, AND ONLY BECAUSE OF THAT FACT.....THE CASH MACHINE WOULD BE WHIRRING AWAY MAKING LOTS OF MONEY.....the countryside was raped.

But, such plants will never be classed as being, 'As dead as a Dodo', because MONEY is the driving factor.

Will it ever be re-introduced into the wild again??? It would be nice to think so. As so many nurseries in Peru and farther afield are now mass producing these plants they will become cheaper and most Orchid Buffs will no doubt have a go at it. Let's be truthful, it sure is a stunner.

So, what role has CITES had in all of this turmoil??? What did they stop??? What did THEY achieve???

The facts are that no orchid on this planet of ours need no longer to be classified as ENDANGERED, because as the case of Phrag. Kovachii has shown that it does not take long to mass produce orchids.

If CITES could be seen to be very actively working with individual Countries to help explore, catalogue and start a concerted effort in laboratories to mass produce any threatened plants, then I for one would give them [CITES that is] an annual fee to support their work.

Or, take away all of the unnecessary paperwork which only makes enemies of CITES, and perhaps just charge a small fee per plant, stating that the fee would be ploughed back into conservation as I have outlined.

So then, to be quite truthful, I could import a Cattleya hybrid from shall we say Australia without the need of ridiculous permits/paperwork and be very glad to pay just a very small fee per plant, knowing that the money would go towards the mass production of endangered species.

Yes, I would be prepared to pay a fee for importing non-endangered orchids, but not the sky high price that CITES ask at the moment, and that fee would do so much good if channelled into correct areas.

Hello CITES !!! Are you listening? How about starting with my Country.....England. What's being done about are endangered species. That is if there are any ???

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: London Orchid Show
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008

You were drooling over the lists from Taiwan − can you send me a link to the
site ?

The only one I have is Orchis Floriculturing at www.orchis.com.tw and
whilst that has a button "English" it doesn't lead me to the catalogue.

Maybe if you could get the catalogue up on screen again, you could copy the
whole page URL and mail it ?

From: Kenneth Bruyninckx
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phragmipdium Kovachii, CITES, and the future.
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008

>Yes, I would be prepared to pay a fee for importing non-endangered orchids,
>but not the sky high price that CITES ask at the moment, and that fee would
>do so much good if channelled into correct areas.

It is not CITES that asks for a fee. it is the administrations in each of
the member countries that impose the fees!

Many years ago the Dutch were not pleased with the fees charged for all the
paperwork, while their southern neighbours almost paid next to nothing for
the same type of permits.

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phragmipdium Kovachii, CITES, and the future.
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008

I think your words are written 'in a spirit of friendly discourse' and
with a twinkle in your eye − but spirits and twinkle aside, I still
think you are way off the mark, reality-wise.

Are you suggesting that it was OK to, as you say, 'rape the countryside'
because a single, beautiful orchid was commercialised and mass-produced?
I have several problems with that − one thing is that nobody knows which
undiscovered species have been eradicated in the process, and we we
probably never will. Perhaps there was the perfect cancer cure out
there, or a compound that could have iven us 200 years of healthy
lifespan − we just don't know. Yes, I'm serious − this is in fact some
of the worries researchers have about the destruction of natural
habitats. And of course, we never know how many undiscovered orchid
species are eradicated simply because they aren't 'stunners'. Is 'pretty
flowers' all orchids mean to us?

The other thing is genetic diversity − commercial growers will take a
small subset of the natural plants − the one they find most sale-able −
and mass-produce them. The rest of them are most likely just discarded.
Who knows what they have thrown out because it didn't seem worth the
effort? Resistence to disease? Some less garish, but more beautiful
varieties?

Finally, when you say that 'no orchid ... need no longer to be
classified as ENDANGERED', it is simply, manifestly incorrect. How many
actual species are there? 20,000 − 30,000 seems to be the most popular
numbers; and how many species are in active cultivation? I mean species,
not hybrids, cultivars and so forth, but botanical species. Many orchids
are ungrowable (or very difficult) and simply not showy enough − even I
have several species that have small, unremarkable flowers.

I don't know is CITES is good or bad − but I do know that if we left it
to commercial interest and 'the market', that sacred and almighty god of
capitalism, we would very soon have very few natural orchids, or any of
the other things CITES is meant to protect. But of course CITES only
restricts the trade in endangered species − it will never work as long
as most people don't care enough to stop the wholesale destruction of
the natural habitats.

Roger Grier wrote:
> In the beginning there were many of these orchids found growing in Peru, hence the original name.
>
> AND BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A STUNNER, AND ONLY BECAUSE OF THAT FACT.....THE CASH MACHINE WOULD BE WHIRRING AWAY MAKING LOTS OF MONEY.....the countryside was raped.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phragmipdium Kovachii, CITES, and the future.
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008

> Are you suggesting that it was OK to, as you say, 'r**e the countryside'
> because a single, beautiful orchid was commercialised and mass-produced?

Jan, are you seriously saying that is how you interpret Roger's words???
Just shows how easy it is to put your own spin on what you read. It seemed
to me that he was saying it was a Bad Thing.

By the way, I have altered the word referring to the way the plants were
removed from the countryside as at least one ISP has quarantined the
original message as they think it contained inappropriate content. Perhaps
now is a good time to remind people (are you reading this, Roger?) to mind
their language.

I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, so I have copied your sentence:

> Are you suggesting that it was OK to, as you say, 'rape the countryside'
> because a single, beautiful orchid was commercialised and mass-produced?

What I was pointing out was that some person saw this lovely orchid and immediately the cash registers rolled in front of his eyes, so, the countryside was raped/cleared of as many plants as possible.

Then after all the rumpus/fines/court proceedings/and whatever else had died down, then, and good luck to them, the Peruvian people decided to mass produce the orchid in question.

To get up to date, Kenneth replied with another aspect of CITES that many people find repulsive.

> It is not CITES that asks for a fee.. it is the administrations in each
> of the member countries that impose the fees!

> Many years ago the Dutch were not pleased with the fees charged for all
> the paperwork, while their southern neighbours almost paid next to
> nothing for the same type of permits.

So why are there different fees??? Should be the same the world over. 'Fair Trade', you must be joking !

I wonder if people who import Fuchsias/Begonias etc have to have CITES permits ???

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES.
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008

Roger Grier wrote:
> Mornin' Jan,
>
> I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, so I have copied your sentence:
>
Hi Roger,

I'm glad to hear it − I genuinely read that meaning into it, although I
found it less than credible that this was what you intended. No harm
done, I hope?

Roger, Remember ''The History of Mr. Polly'' when he said ''the bicycle is here to stay'' Cites is here to stay but not because it is an invention that will help people. It will stay because rhe BEAN COUNTERS have found a cow well worth milking. They extract money to swell someons coffers. It generates mounds of paper to keep them in work and gives them expense accounts to travel. Similar to the MPs.
Phytosanitary Certification is a seperate arguement and this country is lamentably lax in allowing non certified plants and food into our island.
At the moment it is dry in Devon but the sky is dark. Dennis

You asked me if any harm was done.....goodness gracious me no. You'd have to go a long way to harm me.....skin like elephant hide. I'm a really easy going chap, but I do like chipping away at CITES.

Bean Counters.....as you say Dennis. You seem to have them well within your sights, and correctly labelled.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phragmipdium Kovachii, CITES, and the future.
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008

Stripping the wild places of orchids happened long ago , largely in the 19th
Century and perhaps the first 1/3rd of the 20th century. For the areas and
species involved, the horse has been gone so long that the stable has rotted
away into the jungle . It's far too late to shut the door. Most of the "old"
species are hardly present in sufficient numbers or quantities to justify
commercial collecting.

It is true as Jan says, that habitat destruction is even more dangerous than
theoretically collecting might be ( but see my comments on collecting below.
However, I don't believe that we, or anyone, has the right to say to another
country − you must stop chopping down your jungle , as we don't like it. Had
some power said that to the ancient Brits, we should still be a stone-age
tribe, without agriculture, living in clearings in the climax vegetation
(oak and birch forest for example) covering pretty well all UK. But, if we
didn't pass laws and expect other countries to obey them, that would leave
say Costa Rica to decide which orchids it wants to conserve, and which
forests it wants to cut down, in the interests of its own people − (I have
this strange idea that people are more important , somehow) and then − in
the absence of our laws , they would be free to sell the orchids from the
forests they cut down. A bad thing ?

What personally niggles me, as an aside − another aside − is that the rules
only apply to anyone − effectively − wanting to collect and grow; collect
and press for a herbarium, why, that's scientific, and licences are granted
, or maybe just assumed. Am I wrong ? Try asking any major herbarium how
many examples of a species they have in stock. You can get an answer by
reading say Cribb on Paphs, where in some cases he merges two old species
into a common one, pointing out that there is continuous variation
throughout a large range, as he can see by looking at the large number of
examples in the files at Kew !

More recently new species have been discovered ( I wonder what the rate of
new discovery is ; Kew might know but has better things to do than waste
their time answering such questions). I'd bet it is quite substantial double
figures ( I even discovered two myself in company with Peter Williams and
another chap, on my never-to-be forgotten expedition to an area of Thailand
which shall be nameless ) but very, very few of those new species are of
the slightest commercial interest.

The ones that are of interest rapidly get collected out. It can't be stopped
. Cites officials don't have the manpower or resources ( thank goodness − if
they did, guess who would be paying for them ! ) to do 24 hour/365 day/ for
the foreseeable future, guarding the sites.

The collecting is done illegally . There is no way you can prevent the
native of the country, who lives around the corner, nipping in at night and
making a quick buck − which is probably more than he earned the whole week
toiling at his day job. In Thailand, that year mentioned above, I saw a
nice plant of a paph species ( I'm still looking for a good plant of the
same species in UK etc...) priced at £30 ; I was paying villagers just £2
per day to act as porters − and they found their own food and etc ; if I did
pay out for a dinner, it was over and above the contract. Can you wonder at
them taking any chance to make extra money by collecting, what to them, are
just useless weeds ?

So, arguably, Cites is unnecessary, ineffective, and just a source of a
living for all the bureaucrats involved. Oh , and it makes conservationists
feel good too.

We could all spend a good many evenings in the pub thrashing out this
conundrum, which might be more enjoyable than this annual thrash around the
same questions.

From: Kenneth Bruyninckx
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES.
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008

> I wonder if people who import Fuchsias/Begonias etc have to have CITES
> permits ???

But, did you know that snowdrops and cyclamen are on the list (see
http://www.cites.org/eng/app/e-appendices.pdf pages 33 & 39 ), hmm...

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Further address change
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008

I received this E-mail from an Orchid Nurseryman, and I would like to hear from any of you in the know so to speak who can tell the true facts about how we people who live in the 'E-U' group of countries can buy and import orchids without the need of CITES etc. etc.

It may not seem fair, however the nurseries in the EU are also required to obtain CITES for all appendix I plants and for appendix II, their phyto serves as a CITES, so they just choose not to and if caught can be fined heavily. It's also why they ship them via mail. So, I could choose to do the same, but would only risk all the work I have done to date with kovachii.

The reason that I am highlighting this fact is because I do not believe that many orchid growers/sellers outside of the 'E-U' realise that they are being unnecessarily penalised. Or have I got it wrong?

FACT: I HAVE purchased orchids from an E-U Country and had them delivered to my door with not a whisper about any paperwork whatsoever..........and so have many of us.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES.
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008

Thank you very much for the information, which of course is also some more ammunition.

I wonder what the American Fuchsia Society would say if CITES tried to muscle in on them.

>> I wonder if people who import Fuchsias/Begonias etc have to have CITES
>> permits ???

> But, did you know that snowdrops and cyclamen are on the list (see
> http://www.cites.org/eng/app/e-appendices.pdf pages 33 & 39 ), hmm.

> So, arguably, Cites is unnecessary, ineffective, and just a source of a
> living for all the bureaucrats involved. Oh , and it makes conservationists
> feel good too.

> We could all spend a good many evenings in the pub thrashing out this
> conundrum, which might be more enjoyable than this annual thrash around the
> same questions.

Speaking on his second paragraph, I can only say that we would have to get there early, have a meal, a damned good chat..........and someone to drive us home.

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coel mooreana `Westonbirt'
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008

Geoff, I gather that you have returned from your wilderness travels.
A couple of questions for you or others. . .

In the RHS registry of `Westonbirt' (1906) and `Brockhurst (1931) are
there dimensions or other descriptive information given, respectively?

Surely there must have been write-ups on either cultivar in
Gardener's Chronicle. Do you have any citations for such articles?
I am unaware of references to them in G.C., but do not have ready
access to the journal.

> Maybe this has already been answered − I have not been online for
> some time, as I'm in North Africa, and this is the first place on
> my tour ( around the edge of the Sahara and across the Atlas
> mountains) where there has been a wireless hot spot.
> However, I grew the Westonbirt variety some years ago and I can
> tell you a bit about it -. Sir George Holford lived at a house in
> the cotswolds called Westonbirt and had a famous collection − the
> best known being the 4n cymbidium − C. Alexanderi v Westonbirt,
> which was the fore-runner of many of the better Cym. hybrids. I
> believe he was a member of the RHS committe and put on some fine
> displays at Chelsea etc.
> The true mooreana Westonbirt was said to have flowers 50% larger
> than the normal variety − according to Gardeners World journal. I
> have to say that mine was hardly any better than the ordinary C.
> mooreana in my collection . The late Laurie Humphries who was
> effectively chairman of the RHS committe in the late 60's
> ( officially vice-chair, but Maurice Mason the actual chair was
> never there ) and who was extremely knowledgable − he ran Armstrong
> & Brown , a fine orchid nursery at Tunbridge Wells , and was a
> great friend of mine and taught me a lot − said that most of the
> C.mooreana "Westonbirt" circulating was not the true variety
> anyway , and furthermore he thought that the "true" variety was
> probably a hybrid .
>
> But even the "ordinary" mooreana can be a very good plant − lovely
> white long-lasting flowers with a very good habit on the plant. It
> is a pity that these Coelogynes have not been widely seed-raised −
> or if they have , it's been off my radar. There are many I'd like
> to get backj in my collection , this being one.

Just another stir of the pot. In Ecuador, wherever you drove you saw acres of Sobralia, hundreds of Epidendrums and Stellis, all would need a Cites Permit. There were also some Alpacas (Vicguna pacos) and GuineaPig (Cavy cavidae). They do not need Cites as it is for ENDANGERED SPECIES and they are not endangered ( although they taste delicious).
Roger -- just another stir of a very murky pot. From a saturated Devon.Dennis
PS. RHS Rosemoor are having an Orchid Sunday on the 20thJanuary. The Devon OS will put up a table show and answer questions from the public. There will also be two general orchid talks.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Coel mooreana `Westonbirt'
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008

Coelogyne Mooreana
Awarded FCC 1906 shown by Sanders. Ref is in OR15 at P19.
Another one "Magnifica" given AM to Hanbury in 1930 − OR38 p316 − the same
plant FCC the next year − OR 39 p182.
The RHS references I have seem to show the dimensions of the paintings ,
but not the flowers !

Paul Johnson wrote on 18 January 2008:
Re: [OrchidTalk] Coel mooreana `Westonbirt'

> Geoff, I gather that you have returned from your wilderness travels.
> A couple of questions for you or others. . .

> In the RHS registry of `Westonbirt' (1906) and `Brockhurst (1931) are
> there dimensions or other descriptive information given, respectively?

From: John J. Rupp
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] New pics
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008

Roger Grier wrote:
> Your last of the three images shows both flowers and to the right I
> see what looks like some damage to the leaf by maybe some type of
> bugs, yes, no? Can you please tell me if I am correct, and do you
> want any ideas as how to keep the critters at bay.
There is a little leaf damage as you indicate, but so much more
observable in the picture than in real life. Darn those reflections
from the flash. They are very small straight line indentations, almost
like one might expect if a sharp knife point may have touched it. I do
not think that it was from insects. All my plants go outside for the
summer and tremendously benefit from the experience, but they might very
well seek out some other things that go munch.

I like to think of it as they are going to Summer Camp to get
rejuvenated. They need the outside experience as I do not have a
greenhouse, but harbor them in the basement under lights, in the living
room, bedrooms, etc. No way that I could maintain a greenhouse where I
live − too cold for too long. I just love reading about you folks
commenting about the cold rain you are having. I would usually love to
have it warm up enough to have cold rain. OK, I must admit that last
week we did have a warm up to 60 deg F with winds of 85 miles per hour
which took our snow depth from 4 feet down to nothing − nice floods,
too. It has cooled off again and we are to have low temps of -20 F
tomorrow.

Getting back on track. Yes, insects are always a concern, especially
with the outdoor experience. When brought inside, each pot is
inspected, cleaned, sprayed with an insecticide, and the pot dunked in a
pail of something in an attempt to discourage, no kill, critters hiding
in the potting medium. The only pest that has been a problem for the
last few years has been mealybugs, and I just have not been able to
totally eradicate it.

I have tried many things over the years, Neem oil, pyrethrins,
malathion, Cygon, etc.. I use Ortho's Sevin for the soil drench in the
pail. For the sprays, I am currently using Ortho's Orthene, and Bayer's
Imidacloprid. I really hesitate using these sprays in the house, so I
have been using 3% hydrogen peroxide as an indoor spray. The hydrogen
peroxide does seem to do a good number on the mealybugs, but they are so
good at hiding. I would prefer to use a systemic insecticide, but do
not like to use it often due to ventilation.

I am always interested in learning of different ways, methods,
frequencies of applications, etc. to keep the critters under control.
Oh, yes, one critter control that does really work is the standard old
mousetrap, baited with cheese, for mice! Somehow, I got an infestation
last year, and harvested about a half dozen in the attic and another
half dozen or more in the basement. All gone, and none so far this year.

From: jean Lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: [RE][OrchidTalk] Digest 2008
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008

I noticed someone asking about pots with holes in. This type of pot used to be sold by Ray Creek − I bought some from him but I have a feeling he doesn't stock them now but it would be worth asking. I now use pots instead that are designed for ponds − they are really baskets but are in the shape of a square or round pot. I don't use them for all my orchids but for selected ones. Plastic pots of this kind are sold in Australia. As they are very light perhaps it wouldn't be impossibly expensive to import them − if all else fails? Their pots look alot like our pond baskets though. − Their email address is: − Jean

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Mealy Bug.
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008

Mealy Bug. One sure way that I got rid of any on my plants was to do the following.

As they are just smaller than a match head and are easy to see, I would take a tooth pick or similar object and then carefully pick each one of them off of the plant, squashing them as I went.

As to what to spray with..........being that most of the problem was now dead, I think that your normal spray that you use would do the job.

> In Ecuador, wherever you drove you saw acres of Sobralia, hundreds of
> Epidendrums and Stellis, all would need a Cites Permit. There were also
> some Alpacas (Vicguna pacos) and GuineaPig (Cavy cavidae). They do not
> need Cites as it is for ENDANGERED SPECIES and they are not endangered (
> although they taste delicious).

Of course, those acres and hundreds of orchids would scatter MILLIONS of seeds between them. Try Telling CITES that an endangered species would no longer be endangered if seed was distributed wisely.

> So within the US CITES is not applicable as crossing a stateline is
> not like crossing a international border

This is where I continually have a go at CITES. May only concern, which I have hammered home at them from the start is the fact that I will never pay them any money for buying non endangered species and hybrids. So, we come to 'International Borders', and here I smile. I see no difference between crossing a State Border, than crossing an International Border, especially if they 'touch' each other. Like Washington into British Colombia, or Montana into Alberta. We could all talk of other such 'Borders'. The plants would still be posted as per normal for many parts of the world, in a nice cardboard box. The whole thing is just bloody ridiculous.

> The rules are then in fact very easy: once the orchid has entered the
> EU (be it through Heathrow, Frankfurt, Roma Fiumicino, Brussels, ...)
> it has been checked/cleared by customs and benefits from the free
> movement of people and goods principle.
> If then a UK customs guy claims that orchid A is wild then he'd better
> have a good case to overrule his French/German/Belgian colleague.

To add weight to my constant battle with this one section of CITES [non-endangered species and hybrids] I add Kenneth's next paragraph:

> The fact that other nurseries are not treated in the same way is then
> logical, they are from across the European border.
> Switzerland is the best example, at the EOC in Padua the Sheffield
> Orchid Society wanted to visit the show and initially thought of
> driving their coach through Switzerland. When we heard that we told
> them to RECONSIDER and drive around Switzerland, although a European
> country they ARE NOT part of the EU, so just passing through with some
> CITES regulated plants would have been enough to ruin a perfect trip
> and display as the plants would have been confiscated...

Running round it circles like headless chicken, I guess that just about describes CITES.

Looking back at the last few days comments from many of our 'Club Members', it reinforces my aim, which of course is to 'permit' [sorry about the pun] me to buy and have shipped/mailed to my home address, orchids that are NOT ENDANGERED SPECIES.

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Mealy Bug.
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008

> Mornin' John,
>
> Very mild here this morning, about 55 to 57 F. But also very windy
> and damp.
>
> You spoke of MINUS 20 F. Can't even imagine what that is ???
>
> Mealy Bug. One sure way that I got rid of any on my plants was to
> do the following.
>
> As they are just smaller than a match head and are easy to see, I
> would take a tooth pick or similar object and then carefully pick
> each one of them off of the plant, squashing them as I went.
>
> This kills maybe ninety per cent of the problem, and then I sprayed.
>
> It sure worked very well with me.
>
> As to what to spray with..........being that most of the problem
> was now dead, I think that your normal spray that you use would do
> the job.
>
> Imidacloprid rings a bell with me.
>
> Kind regards, Rocky.

From: Tony Garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: ref.ORCHIS FLORICULTURING INC.
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008

I contacted ORCHIS FLORICULTURING INC. about the English version on
their website.
They have now sorted it out!

Also, for Jean, here is a photo taken last week using those plastic
'Pond pots' you were talking about. (Den. Yukidaruma 'King')

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Valua for money.
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008

The multi flowering Paph is sure earning its keep. And the top sepal is slightly different.

As for the cattleya labiata..........it was a gift last year and required a bit of 'TLC', and it has rewarded me. And what a lovely perfume when I walk into our conservatory. Oh yes, one other thing that I liked about it was the way that the four buds stood out well and did not get in each others way.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] ref.ORCHIS FLORICULTURING INC.
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008

I grew the Den. Noble types and they bloomed prolifically every winter, but 15 years ago Miami became too warm. I lost all of them except Den. Yukidaruma 'King', and it flowers every year. But now last year it bloomed off and on for over two months. This year one of the plants are showing buds and the other hasn't started to show buds.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: It's cold and dark
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008

Ron N. will be here in an hour, for the WOC. Today the sun didn't come up. We have very little rain but it was misty all day and 60F. I haven't seen a day like this in 10 years. Ron is going think that he is London. If we had to have a dark day at least we should get some real rain. Not enough light to take a picture.

I would love to meet both of you. I will be volunteering in the Commemorative booth Wednesday morning and then in the Hospitality Booth on Friday morning. I will be at the preview Tuesday night and at the gala on Saturday night. I will probably have a badge with my name on it. Looking forward to meeting some of our email friends.
Janet Fabricant

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: paper envelopes for capturing seeds?
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008

Capturing seeds? Anyone ever loose seeds because the pod opened and you didn't catch it in time?

I am looking for input, new Ideas ( to me) on capturing seeds. Anyone every put paper envelopes on the seed pods to catch the seed? I tried plastic but he moister inside the plastic bags is a problem.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-29
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
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September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2008 Archived Messages

January 15—21