2008 mailing list messages

2008 Archived Messages

Click on the week you require.
To return to the main Archive index, click the button at the bottom of the page.
Links to all the Photos and other images accompanying the list messages can be found on the Images page.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: That List.
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

After both Dennis and I received that 'List', Dennis told me that a contact to E-mail was Lucinda Lachelin. So I did, and here is her reply.

I have forwarded your e mail to those involved with the show organization as I do not have any involvement with this.

Oh well, I will keep trying to nail someone down. In the meantime, as you may well know, both Geoff and I seem to like 'PeruFlora'. Their prices, plus the extra for paperwork/permits etc is excellent.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: RHS Orchid Show
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

I have just received a reply from Lucinda Lachelin concerning the March Show. She advised that it would be passed to those concerned. This intrigued me so I went to the RHS web site and started searching. It seems that the RHS shows are run by a Business Board. They are advised by a Shows Committee. The Show Director is Stephen Bennett ( stephenbennett@rhs.org.uk ) and the Show Development Manager is Bob Sweet ( bobsweet@rhs.org.uk ) In November The Orchid Committee appointed Mr. Evison as Moderator for the show as theis main influence.
Now I begin to understand. The people running the show are not Orchidists and so do not understand our needs of wanting foreign addresses threemonths prior to the show. I would doubt if they solicit entries but wait for people to apply as in the good old days when we all? had gardeners.
No wonder the WOC, BOC Congress and Peterborough sat is fy our needs better.
This may be incorrect as I am not part of the Inner Circle, but it may explain a lot.
Regards from a sunny and mild ( 8C ) Devon. Dennis

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: FW: emailanfrage von der website!!! plant list
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

> Dear Geoff,
> attached you will find our latest list, thank you for your interest. It
> would be very kind if you could send your wishes not later than two weeks
> before london so that i can get well prepared for the show. If any
> questions, please ask.
> best regards

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: New address
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

Would all interested "chatters" please note my new email address with immediate effect.
Gordon.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: The List.
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

Asendorfer Orchideenzucht
bauch@paphiopedilumworld.com
www.paphiopedilumworld.com

Orchid Society of Great Britain
royjoewhite@hotmail.com
www.orchid-society.gb.org.uk

Orchids by Peter White
peter@orchidsbypeterwhite.co.uk
www.orchidsbypeterwhite.co.uk

Rollke Orchideenzucht
RoellkeOrchideenzucht@t-online.de
www.roellke-orchideen.de

Writhlington Business and Enterprise School
spughjones@tiscali.co.uk
www.writhlingtonorchidproject.org.uk

Orchids by Peter White
peter@orchidsbypeterwhite.co.uk
www.orchidsbypeterwhite.co.uk

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: FW: The London Orchid Show 2008
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

Confirmed list including contact details for all exhibitors at this year's London Orchid Show as requested:

Geoffrey Hands wrote
On: 04 December 2007
To: Blythe Barlow
RE: The London Orchid Show 2008

blythebarlow@rhs.org.uk wrote
On: 04 December 2007
To: Geoff Hands
Re: The London Orchid Show 2008

I have spoken to the London Orchid Show Manager, who has informed me that exhibitors are currently in the process of being confirmed for the show. Once we have had correspondence from the confirmed exhibitors that we have their correct Company/contact details, we will be able to email you the exhibitor list.

It is anticipated that we will be able to email you a list of exhibitors by mid February.

Blythe Barlow
Deputy Exhibitor Services Manager
Shows Department, 80 Vincent Square, London SW1P 2PE
Tel: 020 7821 3358 Fax: 020 7233 9525
email: blythebarlow+AEA-rhs.org.uk
www.rhs.org.uk

Geoffrey Hands wrote
On: 04 December 2007
To: Blythe Barlow
Re: The London Orchid Show 2008

I think (hope) we have our wires crossed . I am talking about ( enquiring about) Trade exhibitors − you can't be telling me they only make their minds up a few days before hand ? Or is it that your organisation does not want to bother about it until a few days beforehand ?

My understanding of the planning is that all the spaces are allotted well in advance − the trade nurseroies I am interested in probably have to apply for their paperwork (CITES permits etc) at least 3 months , and maybe 6 months in advance.

When I have been asked to show as a National Collection holder, I am asked to commit myself six months in advance. Why is it different for me , then ?

Let me explain a bit further − if the trade attending the London Orchid Show is just the usual UK orchid nurseries, I will probably not visit the show . I get to see the UK people all the time without a journey to London and frankly , their offerings get a little bit uninteresting − I could express this more strongly .

But usually − often − you have trade exhibitors from South America, even the Far East − if they are coming , fine, I will probably visit.

If I know their names a few weeks before the show, I will correspond with them by e-mail using the e-mail address provided in the advance info ( other orchid shows all seem to give this ) find out what they have to offer, make an advance order of what I want, and then I certainly will visit.

If you want visitors like me − the keen UK orchidists − that's what we want . I know many who take exactly the same view as myself.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: The List.
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

For those 20 or so who didn't get Geoff's message with Orchis
Floriculturing's catalogues attached I have put them on the website along
with the others he has sent:

From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] is there anyone there ?
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

Speaking for myself, I'm busy trying to sort out my watering
system.......so you are not alone.
Then I discovered the outside connector for mains water on the
Greenhouse was leaking. So that is now sorted.......but the Orchids are
being sprayed by hand with my Grandfather's 'Abol' Sprayer, which must
be about 100 years old......and still "going strong"!

I've been drooling over the lists from Taiwan.......
Now I see there are more from Peru!

My Dendrobium 'Yukioama King' is in full flower. I'll try and send a
photo tomorrow.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: FW: RHS Orchid Show
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

I think we have made our point but we must start earlier next year.Regards from a saturated Devon. Dennis

> Dear Mr Read
>
> Thank you for your e-mail of 7 January to Lucinda Lachelin and for taking
> the trouble to write to us regarding this year's London Orchid Show; Ms
> Lachelin has asked me to reply on her behalf.
>
> I am sorry that you had difficulties obtaining a list of exhibitors at
> this year's show. We have always waited to publish this list until we
> have been able to confirm and verify that all details are up to date and
> correct. I have attached a list containing e-mail and website addresses
> of all confirmed exhibitors. This list has also been passed to our
> publishing department to display on the RHS website.
>
> I fully appreciate that earlier access to this information would be more
> helpful because of the need to pre-order a long time in advance with
> nurseries travelling from abroad. The experience for both visitors and
> exhibitors is central to the success of our events and I can assure you
> that we will seriously consider your comments in the planning of future
> shows.
>
> Finally, may I take this opportunity to thank you for supporting the RHS
> and we look forward to welcoming you in March.
>
> With best wishes,
>
> Yours sincerely
>
>
>
> Georgina Barter Show Manager

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cycnoches
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

Geoff, A while ago you posted a picture of a Cycnoches? you bought at BOC Weston. Who did you buy it from and are they at RHS?. Regards Dennis

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Akerne Orchids catalogue added to OT website
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008

Quick note to say Kenneth Bruyninckx has just sent the latest Akerne
Orchids catalogue for the website and I have added it to the others.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: The List.
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008

It's a pity that we all had to ruffle a few feathers to get what not only we want, but something that others want, and should be an ongoing item that the RHS should attend to.

This morning I had a look at the RHS web site.....London Orchid Show.....information.....NO LIST OF EXHIBITORS.

At least I have put in my order and I hope that those of us who were waiting for this information can do likewise.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Buying plants.
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008

Can anyone please tell me if they have bought plants from Peru Flora and what they think.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008

Rocky,
I bought some flasks of Kovachi but they all fungused and died. However I blame myself as I know others have not had any problems. My advice would be to buy as seen at the show as I am told they have a good selection.
Gordon.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008

Thanks for that Gordon. I myself steer well clear of flasks as I did try one once. And that was most probably one step too far.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008

Roger, I bought plants from Perufloria last year and I got value for money. They had all sorts of problems with Cites etc. and could not get to Peterborough.They got my order to Belgium and posted it from there − well packed. I bought about a dozen species that I had not grown before -Cycnoches.Mormodes, Angulos and Mormolyca. All are growing well except two but that is down to my learning. Remember plants from S. America are not grown incontrolled houses but under shade in the open so they do get attacked by various bugs. I would buy from them again. Hopefully you will correspond with a lady called Hajnalka.
Regards from a rain and wind swept Devon. Dennis

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008

When I did get their E-mail and list I got a man named Manolo, so you get the girl...........I'm out of luck again.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008

I was reading what you said when I thought about you telling that they had all sorts of problems with CITES. I thought to myself, "What if a CITES representative came to the London Orchid Show and wished to see their plants, and other 'Foreign' sellers plants". The plants would I guess have labels on them, or maybe not, and not be in flower. So how would the CITES representative know or not know if what he or she was looking at was Endangered ??? And then what, if the 'Seller' could prove that they were nursery grown, and had been inspected several times a year by that Country's government officials and had the documents to prove that fact?? What then ???

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008

Maybe you didn#t know that Cites police Do visit the London Show. A few years ago ,a Danish chap (KJ Orchids) showed me a fantastic Paph species # a micranthum album I think it was # he wanted US$ 7500 for it , as I remember . I didn#t have quite enough in my trouser pocket, and wandered off. Later I went back for something else, and found him not there # he had been marched off into a private room for interrogation. I don#t have any more of that story#.

And only a couple of years ago at Dijon, at least two dealers had every plant examined, taken away from them, with all paperwork etc, and one at least only got his stock back several days later, when many of the buyers had gone ( who stays every day of a 5 day show ? ) and then the stock was in bad condition, with flasks broken through lack of packing by the CITES people − no redress available, as I understand it # it was not their fault (!).

This does not say that Cites is a bad thing , but it is alas administered by people who have little knowledge of plants !

As someone has commented in the latest Paph Soc. Journal , 99% of the business of CITES is about animals, but 99% of the problems and paperwork are with plants. Governments don#t want it, and maybe they too are looking for a solution. Unfortunately the easy one for them wouldn#t suit us at all ( that is, abolish cites, but ban all imports/exports) and fortunately that would not suit a few countries who are big in trade , e.g. Netherlands and Taiwan to name but two. The alternative is no Cites, no problem # but that is a bitter pill for the conservationists to swallow, and they are not ready for it yet. A compromise will eventually be found#..

I have just heard that Cites is bringing in a new system called PEACH . I gather it is an electronic system using London Airport but I can find nothing about it.
Regards, Lets not mention the weather. Dennis

From: Kenneth Bruyninckx
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008

The "CITES police" do not only visit the London Orchid Show, they also
(always?) visit other shows like BOC's as well.

Although they never make themselves known they are in fact so easy to spot
if you just observe people :-)

Look for a small group of 2-3 people with the following description: one of
them carries a clipboard to take down plant names, they have a profound
interest (or should I say obsession) with Paphiopedilums, they take pictures
of a fair number of Paphs and make some inquiries if they have been imported
/ seedgrown (ok, they don't always make themselves THAT obvious by posing
that question).

They're decent civil cervants that you can have a talk with, ok, they don't
always know the matter 100% and sometimes need some correction on dates, but
who doesn't!

It was at the BOC in Weston-Super-Mare that one of the guys made some
queries about the legality of our Paph. sukhakulii and during our talk it
became obvious that he thought that it was a recent introduction to science.
we just walked over to the nearest bookseller and consulted a copy of The
Genus Paphiopedilum by Cribb (it was described in 1965) and that was it,
matter resolved.

I don't know if there were several teams walking around at the WOC in Dijon,
but at least the team that we got in front of us knew what they were talking
about.

One of them no doubt grew orchids as a hobby and when this customs (?) guy
makes inquiries about the difference between the Coelogyne speciosa on the
table and our "Ambiorix" clone, that hadn't offered in the catalogue for a
number of years (!!!), then you just know that he knows what he is looking
at.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008

It was so nice to read your piece about the CITES people, especially the part about some of them knowing about orchids and what they were talking about.

So, to talk a little on what they know. I will still keep knocking on their door, so to speak about one very important issue. And that is, that we see so many photographs, and also know for as fact that many establishments grow orchids in their respective laboritories. These orchids are mass produced. These orchids stop the need for someone to rape the countryside. These orchids that are produced in this way are doing a fantastic job for the hobbyist, the grower, and for future generations.

And in this day and age with the instant knowledge and proof so accessible via the Internet, I ask this question. Why do CITES expect to be paid a fee for the trading of such plants, when they, especially the knowledgeable Civil Servants, know that they are not ENDANGERED SPECIES.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008

I won't ask you if it's a wind up just yet, but like you I wait with baited breath.

> I have just heard that Cites is bringing in a new system called PEACH .
> I gather it is an electronic system using London Airport but I can find
> nothing about it.

Hi Peter,
A good way to check on the weather is to go to www.wunderground.com and put
in 33126. That is the zip code for the Sheraton. You can find a 5 day
forecast there. I wouldn't trust the forecast accuracy but you can get a
pretty good idea of the temperature. Looking forward to meeting you.
Regards,
Janet Fabricant

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] suggestions please − descaling hydrofogger ...
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008

I want to try Citric Acid, but I don't know how much to use.
I bought 100 grammes of it, the smallest quantity. How much
do I have to use for 100 ml. of water? Can you help?
Thank You
Peter from Bloubergstrand

Peter Fowler wrote on Sunday, January 06:
Re: [OrchidTalk] suggestions please − descaling hydrofogger ...

> As I chemist I use a solution of Citric Acid rather than Phosphoric acid
> which is Coca Cola. Citric acid is mild and will not corrode the metal,
> like Hydrochloric , Sulphuric or Nitric acid.

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] suggestions please − descaling hydrofogger ...
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008

I would first try a 10% w/v solution. Weigh out 10gm of Citric Acid and make up to 100ml with water. Any water will do.
I use it to descale my kettle, shower-head and loo. Leave it overnight. I use a saturated solution for the loo. Add citric acid to warm water with stirring until you have undisclosed crystals. You don't need to filter it, just use it as it comes.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008

Providing they are (a) in flower , so that a non-specialist can check the
appearance against a picture they have in the data-base,

(b) that the one in question is
included in the quite long list of such mass-produced species.

> ...And in this day and age with the instant knowledge and proof so accessible
> via the Internet, I ask this question. Why do CITES expect to be paid a fee
> for the trading of such plants, when they, especially the knowledgeable
> Civil Servants, know that they are not ENDANGERED SPECIES.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] suggestions please − descaling hydrofogger ...
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008

Peter, I don't know whether you missed my mail on the subject , but I did
find that coca-cola did a good job − and that was simply leaving the parts
in question in a bath of it overnight. Of course this would not be very
appropriate if you wanted to do something quite large .

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008

Providing the plants are in flower. Providing that the plant is included in quite a long list.

I wish to buy a plant from a well known Orchid Nursery in the United States of America. It was produced by them in their laboratory. Of course it will NOT be flown over in flower, especially if it is a young plant. It may well be on 'The List'. The Orchid Nursery could provide written documentation that the plant was cloned/grown by them in their laboratory and that the plant in question has nothing to do with trying to save endangered species.

CITES must learn that people tell the truth, that orchid hobbyists like to buy plants from reputable nurseries. That they also recognise that CITES in respect of trying to help save endangered species is a good idea, but if CITES keeps asking me to pay a fee for buying a plant or plants that are mass produced in laboritories then my battle with them will continue.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] suggestions please − descaling hydrofogger ...
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008

Geoff, I read your mail about the coca-cola and I tried it. One nozzle was
clean and one not. I have another two in the coca-cola and leave them now
for a bit longer, about 48 hours. The nozzles are quite small and the "hole"
is so small that one cannot get the tip of a pin into it. Just out of curiosity
I want to try the Citric Acid, to see which works best. I have about 30
nozzles to clean from time to time and up to now I used a lye which I was
given. I don't know what it is. It works, but on some nozzles it doesn't.
So, I'm trying the acid solutions now to see whether it unblocks the nozzles.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] suggestions please − descaling hydrofogger ...
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008

I have no such devices as you describe, and I have only a modest interest in then type of problems that you all have with the blockage of the tiny holes. I just wonder, and I am sure there must be in many Countries, same as here, a powder which is poured into boiling hot water for de-scaling kettles, irons etc.

Excuse me if this has been discussed, but I wonder what the correct words are that would describe the ingredients, and is this product helpful ?

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008

Lets be practical Roger: have you tried buying anything from a USA grower
recently ? If CITES are needed, they will charge you up to $125 for the
paperwork.( in my personal experience of quotations ! )

You need a phyto too . I have been quoted up to $100 for that − as the
nurseryman in question said − " I've got to drive 60 mile to the nearest
certification centre − wait − and then come back. My time is valuable" . (
personally, when I was in business, I would have charged a lot more than
$100 for that kind of journey and time ! ) .

You see, they can make a living selling to customers in their own country
with no hassle. You want the plant, tell them to send it in flower − and
incidentally there is then no doubt that its true to name ; no hassle for
them , no cost to you.

I am not known as a defender of Cites, and I am known as a critic of it ,
but I have to be honest, and in these circumstances, problem is the
customers making , not the system !

From: Roger Grier [mailto:theorchid.man@virgin.net]
Sent: 13 January 2008
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.

I wish to buy a plant from a well known Orchid Nursery in the United States
of America. It was produced by them in their laboratory. Of course it will
NOT be flown over in flower, especially if it is a young plant. It may well
be on 'The List'. The Orchid Nursery could provide written documentation
that the plant was cloned/grown by them in their laboratory and that the
plant in question has nothing to do with trying to save endangered species.

CITES must learn that people tell the truth, that orchid hobbyists like to
buy plants from reputable nurseries. That they also recognise that CITES in
respect of trying to help save endangered species is a good idea, but if
CITES keeps asking me to pay a fee for buying a plant or plants that are
mass produced in laboritories then my battle with them will continue.

From: Roger Grier [mailto:theorchid.man@virgin.net]
Sent: 12 January 2008
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.

It was so nice to read your piece about the CITES people, especially the
part about some of them knowing about orchids and what they were talking
about.

So, to talk a little on what they know. I will still keep knocking on their
door, so to speak about one very important issue. And that is, that we see
so many photographs, and also know for as fact that many establishments grow
orchids in their respective laboritories. These orchids are mass produced.
These orchids stop the need for someone to rape the countryside. These
orchids that are produced in this way are doing a fantastic job for the
hobbyist, the grower, and for future generations.

And in this day and age with the instant knowledge and proof so accessible
via the Internet, I ask this question. Why do CITES expect to be paid a fee
for the trading of such plants, when they, especially the knowledgeable
Civil Servants, know that they are not ENDANGERED SPECIES.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Seed pods.
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008

I have got two different plants of Dryadella simula.
One adquired from a German nursery, the other bought
from a private collection in the UK.

Both are currently in flower, so I tried to
cross-pollinate on flower, and it looks as though it
might have worked... The flower itself hasn't dried
out or collapsed (as I would have expected), but the
ovary looks larger and is more extended than the
ovaries on the other open flowers (on both plants).
This is my first try at cross-pollination and I have
no idea how long dryadellas take for seed to mature.
Any ideas?

Also, as I have no idea as to how to grow orchid from
seed, and I know that there are a couple of people in
the group that have had seed pods from me in the past,
if you are interested in growing this seed pod, just
let me know (privately, so as to not clog the list),
and we can talk about it.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying plants.
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008

I was not talking about ME buying plants, or for that matter anyone in particular. I was talking about the fact that the plants that I may or may not wish to buy would be much easier to obtain, if, Laboratory produced plants did not require a CITES permit. After all, such plants are not endangered...are they ?

As to the Phyto: I don't seem to remember having to pay for one when I buy from Italy.

And finally, I was not speaking for myself, but for the general hobbyist the world over.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Coca Cola − Citric Acid
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008

Coca-Cola didn,t work for me. I left the nozzles in it for 48 hours and they are
still blocked.
I had two nozzles in Hydrochloric Acid and that worked 100%.
Now I'm trying Citric Acid. I made a solution and have some nozzles in it.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-29
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2008 Archived Messages

January 8—14