2007 mailing list messages

2007 Archived Messages

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Polystyrene and roots.
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007

From a very frosty New Forest. A glorious day, but the frost is going away already, leaving drops of moisture everywhere!!!!

The large holes in that polystyrene moulding that I used were made by my good self, however, if you look at the first photo you will see a root that has, all by itself, grown all the way through the one inch thick wall of the moulding.

To tell you the truth John, I was very surprised to see this happen. It sure goes to prove how strong orchid roots are.

I had, many years ago, seen couch grass roots go all the way through a potato, but this action by orchid roots was new to me.

Also of course, seeing how the roots will do this, I see no point in coating it with cement wash.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Water quality.
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007

Roger, About 8 years ago on a visit yo Sylvan Orchids by Gatwick, then run by the late Alan Graham, he showed me his Disa growing area. These orchids are reputed to be very sensitive to chemicals in water and he had set up an experiment using de-ionised water, rain water and various tap waters from acrpss Southern England including one with a reading of 600ms. At that time it was impossible to detect any difference in growth of those kept permanantly wet.
Those that were allowed to dry out between watering from the tray were notedly stunted. As they were all in moss his conclusion was that the dried chemicals affected the plant. He used tap water on all his stock but never allowed them to dry out.
Regards from a sunny but frosty Devon. Dennis

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Phalaenopsis parishii and culture
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007

Yes I have tried to grow it on uncoated polystyrene. It works not as goods
as coated. Polystyrene as such holds no water, wheras cement absorbs some
water and the plant can use it later. Furthermore you get a certain
build-up of algae, actually not a problem but unsightly.

The cement coating is like a hard shell around the polystyrene. It gives
more strenght to the polystyrene slab. Polystyrene tends to break easily.
As I said earlier, the cement holds some water, one can see it as it
changes colour when wetted and later goes back to it's original colour.

Like all mounted plants, they have to be watered more often. I have them
sprayed with overhead sprinklers for 5 minutes twice a day in spring and
autumn, thrice a day in summer and occasionally in winter. Humidity is
never below 60%.

The plants do not grow well if they are not watered at least once a day.
Feeding, they get watered with fertilizer every second week, and not at all
in winter. The high flower count could be a result of the low temperatures
this past winter. The temperatures were on about 10 days below 10 º C.
Normally the low temps. are about 12 º C.

Sylvain is absolutely right, the roots will grow through polystyrene, but
not when it is coated with cement. However they grow through the holes that
are there to tie the plant to the slab. To tie the plants, I use thin
strips of pantyhose. Copper wire can cut the plant. I do not use it.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: The nicest orchid out at the moment...
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007

To see the picture, click on the link − which takes you to the Photobucket
web-site where this pic is posted, and then opens it on your screen.

It is EPC Lim Sherbert "Green Jade" − flowers about3 inches across − a
stunner.

Should it be Lim because bred by a chinaman ? or is it really "Lime " − I
haven't stopped to check.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/Geoffrey-75/EPC-Lim-Sherbert-Green-Jade.jpg

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: History and money.
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007

It may also interest you to know that as I grow all of my epiphytic orchids [except Cymbidiums] in stone chippings, that it has cost me nothing at all for some years now, and I can't see me ever paying out for any more. Money in the bank..........money for some more orchids perhaps, if space allows !!!

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phalaenopsis parishii − happy slabbing?
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007

This is one I am going to try, I think. It sounds sufficiently out of
the ordinary − I wondoer if this qualifies as 'happy slabbing' (as
opposed to 'happy slapping' which is so popular in our cities)

PG Hieke wrote:
> The plant was bought as a seedling 7 years ago. It didn't grow well in a
> pot.
> So I mounted it and then it started really growing.
> It is mounted on a polystyrene block which is covered with ordinary cement.
> I attach an article which was in ORCHIDS magazine, which explains the
> whole procedure.

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polystyrene, cement, whatever.
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007

As to the 'why' − who knows? Maybe they thought that it looked better
that way; I can think of many things that are better looking than
polystyrene. And perhaps they had already had succes with orchids growin
on cement surfaces − like buildings etc.

I think I can understand how it can work − as I recall, we have heaths
growing on chalk in some places in UK; what happens is that the chalk
get insulated unter a layer of plant material, which allows the acid
loving plants to thrive. Maybe something similar happens for orchids
growing on cement?

Roger Grier wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As Sylvain said, roots of an orchid will grow through the walls of polystyrene. My photo, No 1. show this, and in the other two photos then roots have taken an easier route.
>
> Esther confirms this fact, which of course brings me on to what Geoff has said: Why the hell would anyone want to paint it with a cement wash ?????

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: An experimant.
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007

As it is an awful morning here, blowing and raining like hell, what better than to sit in the warm!!!

As the 'Subject' says, An experiment, I wonder if I can get some of you to try growing an orchid in an inert medium.

My attachment does show that it was being used by an orchid establishment in southern Florida. One that I visited some fifteen years ago.

What do you say 'Tropic'??? I expect that your weather is so much better than ours at the moment.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] An experimant.
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007

The Fennels came down to Florida in the 20s. Tom the first and his son the second brought there orchids from the north (I think it was Ohio). They built the Orchid Jungle and charged the visitors to see the orchids growing in the jungle. Orchid growers could go to the green house with out having to pay an entrance fee. I first went there in the 40s with the junior orchid society. The jungle was a nice attraction back then, but Disneyland took all of the tourist action away. I the 90s Tom the third won the state lottery ($5 million). By this time the jungle was no longer an attraction. Shortly after, hurricane Andrew flattened the jungle. Tom III closed the jungle. Tom IV started a small orchid business with the remaining orchids. But that's gone.
When Tom III wrote you we had good orchid fertilizers and inert substrates were common. His was just one more.
His jungle plants were fairly well grown. But the greenhouses never seemed to come up to commercial standers. It seems like we have all been looking for a better media for our plants. Right now I am using a mixture that uses a peat moss from Latvia. We orchid growers are all alike − crazy.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Semi Hydroonics
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007

A photo of my attempt at growing a Phrag as a semi hydroponic. The plant had one root about an inch long before putting it into this system.
The pot is a 3inch + ( 80mm) plastic disposable cup from the supermarket with 3 holes bored in it 1 inch (25mm) up from the base. The red stuff is Hydroton, baked clay balls. The plant sits on the bench withall the other plants in the equal size normal pots and the water level is checked every day or so, depending on temp. Its fed with all other plants. What you see is after about 8 months in situ.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: is there anyone there ?
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007

I have just been doing a grand tidy-up in the greenhouse − visitors expected
soon, and it wouldn't do for them to see a brown leaf, they might faint or
something. and I noted what an extraordinary number of flowers − spikes,
buds , etc there are everywhere. I have not counted up and when I do I
won't tell you ( it would sound like boasting − but I have a large
collection.) and surely others are in a similar position ?

But not a word. Maybe you are all waiting until they are out, and then you
will confound us.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Alan Graham.
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007

Alan Graham, and his wife Silvia..........what a tragic loss and an awful shock.

They were both excellent friends who would always have a chat with whoever. When our Orchid Society used to share a tent at the [Romsey] Broadlands Flower and Plant Show we always had a good time.

Sylvia and I would stand to one side and just watch Alan talking to the punters and just share in the good humour.

Yes, he did some experiments and generally 'mucked about with orchids' [my words] but he was such a joy to be with.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchid Digest and Lycastes
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007

But I know some people here who do. If keen, you must try and see this
month's Orchid Digest − Vol 71-4 which is mostly devoted to them , including
a new infrageneric classification by Henry Oakeley ( of course) , and
articles on culture, on the new Japanese hybrids , etc. The pictures in
Orchid Digest are always numerous and wonderful − it's the only orchid
magazine I keep after reading − the others I give away or throw away..

They are good enough , in this case, to make me begin to think again about
lycastes.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: composts − foam
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007

There was some discussion recently about the "Orchid Focus" compost which I
had formulated for the manufacturers. I had included foam , and it seemed
that the makers had stopped including it.

I have just been reading the latest Orchid Review, where the product is
advertised on the back cover, and it clearly states that the foam is
included.

Whilst I had been thinking of telling the makers to take my name off the
bags because what they are selling is not what I designed, I am now unsure
of my ground.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] An experimant.
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Yes the weather is fine, sunshine, not hot yet, 22 deg C.
Yesterday was awful a galeforce southeaster blowing which comes
right from the southpole and is icecold.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchid Digest and Lycastes
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

I agree but I am biased as my main interest is Lycastineae. Have another try as there are some beautiful smaller species L. campbelii, guatamalensis, tricolor, candida, bradeorum and my favourite Ida cobbiana. The difficulty is finding them in this country.
Regards ( i'll not mention the weather in the hope it improves ) dennis

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] composts − foam
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

No comment on the compost but I would like some feed back on the fertiliser as I think that the ''grow'' version speeds up the growth of pseudobulbs.
Regards Dennis

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Semi Hydroonics
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

I have the same setup for 3 of my Phalaenopsis hybrids. The one in the photo has been in semi-hydro for about a year and produced 2 new leaves before it stopped growing any more leaves. The roots are still growing though.

> A photo of my attempt at growing a Phrag as a semi hydroponic. The plant
> had one root about an inch long before putting it into this system. The
> pot is a 3inch + ( 80mm) plastic disposable cup from the supermarket with
> 3 holes bored in it 1 inch (25mm) up from the base. The red stuff is
> Hydroton, baked clay balls. The plant sits on the bench withall the other
> plants in the equal size normal pots and the water level is checked every
> day or so, depending on temp. Its fed with all other plants. What you see
> is after about 8 months in situ. Roy

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Semi Hydroonics
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Very good − it's so nice to see good roots on any orchid, and slippers are
not the easiest in this respect.

The baked clay balls are sold under many different names, and vary a bit in
other respects too − One maker produces ones in the 6-8mm size which are
almost like ball bearings, and another produces 12-15mm lumps which are much
rougher − as yours are. I have bought them at times under the name Hydroleca
and also 'Leca. There is very little difference in their value for the
plants though − I believe it is the simple physical fact of air spaces
between them, and the balls remaining wet on their faces due to capillary
action.

However, anyone trying these should beware that sometimes the balls are
covered with dust which is very alkaline − and I always give them a swill
to wash this off before use.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] composts − foam
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Hi Geoff n all,
Geoff; I thought you were our legal eagle! I guess it is a question of you allowing your name to be used as an endorsement of a product as opposed to the manufacturers claiming that the product is according to your formulation . . . or something. Isn't it?
There's also a question of misrepresentation if they say they include foam but don't . . . . . isn't there?

Presumably the foam is included in your recommended formulation to maintain a non-compacted structure? Should it be closed-cell or open-cell foam for their respective water absorption properties?

Oh, there are at least three of us extant and there must be a Tricia in the background.
Maybe a case of Christmas a comin' on?!
Cheers
John

> There was some discussion recently about the "Orchid Focus" compost which
> I had formulated for the manufacturers. I had included foam , and it
> seemed that the makers had stopped including it...

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Brown leafs.
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

> I have just been doing a grand tidy-up in the greenhouse − visitors
> expected soon, and it wouldn't do for them to see a brown leaf, they
> might faint or something.

And quite correct to. I must admit that I did smile at what Geoff said, as I feel sure that the best incentive to tidy up ones greenhouse is to have guests due in a day or so.

I always take a few brown leaves along with me when I give my orchid chats, and why do I take them with me you may ask, because it might surprise some of you to know that many of the people who just buy orchids from shall we say a Garden Centre are absolutely frightened to death when they see the BOTTOM leaf of a Phalaenopsis turn that blackish brown colour and have such alarming [to them] streaks and blotches on them. And of course that goes for all other orchids.

I say to them, "For Christ sake, it's bloody natural", and I often use exactly those words.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Roy's Hydroton culture.
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Must say that your experiment looks to be working very well. And yes, I have done the very same thing, or nearly, with a beer glass, sorry should say a beer receptacle made of plastic. Even drilled holes in it like you. But it split some time ago.

Point being that both of us use a non rotting/de-composing/decaying type of medium.

Question that I want to ask you is this, does the porous nature of Hydroton get clogged with anything?

I look forward to your answers, and I feel sure that it will let loose a barrage of E-mails, as Geoff has 'ordered' them.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Semi Hydroonics Phrag
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Your plant looks wonderful. Would like to see a photo of it when it is in bloom. Thanks.
Janet Fabricant
Wirey hugs and love and xxx and licks from Janet, Bobby and Asta

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] composts − foam
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

I was the person that recently started the discussion on this compost. Our
society here in South Wales had a large delivery from the suppliers in
Somerset (I think something like Growth Technology was their name, but not too sure
on that), and I can assure you that there was definitely not any foam in the
compost, just bark. I added some Grofoam to my compost which I had already.

That is not to say that since my query with them they have decided to again
add the foam.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: grand tidy-up in the greenhouse , visitors expected soon
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Geoffrey you may have a lot to do, but think about someone in south Florida that has friends around the world that are coming to the WOC and plan to visit my garden. They all expect the garden and greenhouse to be neat as a pin. Well I know it's not as good as it used to be. Arthritis takes it's toll on me and thus the garden. We are looking forward to a member of this group staying with us as well as a commercial grower from Germany.
Yesterday I found out that there is a second orchid show running at the same time. Motes Orchids has had a winter show for the last 6 years. It is full of international growers with material that is not found at the big box stores (Costco, Walmart etc.). Motes had his date long before the WOC finally found a date.
I will just pay for a single day at the WOC ($50) so I will have time to go to the Motes show ($6).
I do not plan to go to the party at the Parrot Jungle. The $250 a person is a bit rich for me and my wife. I think that I have better things to do. We may have a dinner in our garden for friends and members of this group that would be more comfortable with a more modest party.
See Geoff some of us are alive, with aches and pains but alive.

The attached file is Bro. negrilensis, a winter bloomer growing on a mango tree.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Wendy from Wales.
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

You tell us that your Society [which one please] took delivery of a large quantity of a certain compost.

My question of course would be to ask you if any of your members have tried my method? Especially as the rock chippings come from your area.

Trouble with you Welsh people is that it was you lot that gave our roses that terrible trouble..........at least my friend tells me so, it's called 'Di Bach', sorry about the humour.

I was thinking of the similarity about the direction of your cold east wind to ours. The worst possible wind direction around the mouth of Southampton Water, which is just above the tip of the Isle of Wight is easterly. It blows up between Portsmouth, aka 'Pompy' and the 'Island'. No good whatsoever for small boats and just about everything else.

My best advice to you would be to key in the words, 'What is expanded shale' on the Internet.

I think, only think, that 'Vermiculite' is produced by very high temperature firing into the product that we buy.

I also know that expanded shale is used to such excellent advantages in building.

Isn't it marvellous what we all, [Club members] manage to store in our 'old' heads.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchid Digest and Lycastes
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Weather ? what#s wrong with the weather # still summer here in Christchurch ( crossed fingers behind back..)

Seriously though Dennis , the Lycaste species you mention don#t have leaves which blot out the light ?

> I agree but I am biased as my matn interest is Lycastineae. Have another
> try as there are some beautiful smaller species L. campbelii,
> guatamalensis, tricolor, candida, bradeorum and my favourite Ida
> cobbiana. The difficulty is finding them in this country.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] composts − foam
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

> No comment on the compost but I would like some feed back on the
> fertiliser as I think that the ''grow'' version speeds up the growth of
> pseudobulbs.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] composts − foam
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Ps I had no hand in their fertilisers, but have a healthy respect for the fertiliser knowledge of the guy who runs the outfit ; as I recall it , he was a chemist, and started out growing tomatoes etc hydroponically ( commercially) in Australia, and when undercut by immigrants doing the same thing but employing all of their family from the age of 5 upwards at no labour cost , switched to selling them the fertilisers for the job , and formulating different fertilisers for different purposes . Started Growth Technology in Oz, then moved to Uk# in discussions with him I soon found that his knowledge went very, very far beyond my own.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Brown leafs.
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

My personal calculation is this ; assume I have 1000 orchids ( I expect it's
rather more − but who wants to count them.) ; assume that on the average
they have 2 new leads each − phals and my several hundred vandaceous things
have only 1 , but odonts etc have maybe 6 or more.etc. So 1000 x 2 2000
new growths per year with an average of 5 new leaves each ? 10,000 new
leaves per year.

But growths live , or at least the leaves do − on average − for 4 years. (
If you question this, look at your plants ; how many bulbs can you count
back in a straight line, before you get to a leafless backbulb ? ) By the
way , the length of time that they do live is, I think, a measure of the
quality of culture, but that's another story.

So , 10,000 leaves will turn yellow, brown, drop ( or be taken off) per
year, about 30 per day.

That's why there are yellow or brown leaves on my plants, and will be
every day − but they will all be gone by 11am on Thursday !

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] composts − foam
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Wendy , suppose you message them ,(?) pointing out their advert − and do
mention my name if you want . Quote me too, if you want.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Roy's Hydroton culture.
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

( Sorry Rog ; my sense of humour is not the same as other's − just remember
that all orchid growers are mad, but not necessa8ily in the same way)

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] grand tidy-up in the greenhouse − visitors expected soon
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

How nice to hear from you Jordan − I'm sorry that I shall not be one calling
on you during WOC , but I have decided ( after the very first WOC I visited
actually ) that they are a great rip-off, and anyway, my missus has said no
long-haul flights again ever.. ( after getting about 4 hours sleep in 36
hours coming home from China − and since that is so recent, I can't try to
get round it yet − although I have inveigled her into a 5 hour flight -
booked today − for her 80th birthday , and when its mine she will I expect
come with me − but I haven't decided where, yet.)

But tell me all about WOC when you have been , and either I'll drool at what
I missed , or tell myself how clever I was.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] is there anyone there ?
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Geoff,
I agree with you on two points. Like you I seem to have a exceptional number of plants showing spikes, buds and flower for the time of year, a number of them putting up 2 spikes. I also notice many of my plants( Phals) putting out branches, more so than usual.My growing conditions have not changed. Maybe the warmer and somewhat drawn out autumn has some thing to do with it

I also agree with you in regard to your comment of lack of postings. I seem to recall Trish giving the number of members. I think about 130? But be that as it may, one usually gets a response to any question for help or information. However, I must say that I was some what surprised at the total lack of comment to my observation re the cost of heating. I suppose it depends on where and how you grow your Orchids, heating obliviously won't be a matter of great concern to growers over the pond and in the warmer parts of Europe. I wonder how many list members are UK based? Personally I don't know of any one who grows Orchids in the North East. I have never been in any other growers house, nor has any grower been into mine, and whilst my friends like to see the flowers, the odd brown leaf would not faze them.I wait until the leaf drops of naturally or to the touch.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] grand tidy-up in the greenhouse , visitors expected soon
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

I hit the wrong line and the picture is Sobralia decora, noot Bro. negrilensis. Sorry, I know better.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Brown leafs.
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007

Hi All,
There is a solution to this vexing (?) problem; simply have so many plants in your orchid house that access is impossible for anyone unable to bend double while moving alternate sections of their anatomy to the left and then to the right. Our greenhouse is so full of plants that we can't even be sure if our last guests ever got out.

Should any guest, by chance, meet the above criteria, make sure the automatic fogger can be activated by a person's proximity to a brown leaf.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Roy's Hydroton culture.
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007

The Hydroton could get clogged but it can be washed and sterilized easily. If they look bad in the pot, simply tip them out and add fresh. What sticks to the roots, leave there.
A small pointed grinding tool works best for the holes in the plastic pots.
I have a Rhy gigantea alba the same way to try & get some roots on it and its working.
On another forum, a member posted some pics of his Paph godefroyae v Leucochilum plants growing like crazy. His method is 5 − 6 inch clay pots for ALL size plants out of compots using polystyrene and hydroton in the bottom, topped up with hydroton with a layer of polished small river pebbles on top.
He waters daily, once only. Feeding weakly, weekly. I haven't seen brachys grow so well. He only repots when the growths start getting smaller because the roots have run out of space to grow. They also get lots more light than I would have thought brachys should have by about triple.
I have trouble growing brachys ( except niveum & concolor ) so I tried some of the hybrids brachys in a mix of, red scoria ( volcanic rock) & crushed white quartz. After 2 years of doing NOTHING, they are making new leaves & hopefully roots. I used the same mix with a little bark added on some other brachys & they seem to be doing well now also.
I'm looking forward to flowering the Phrag in the semi hydro to take to a club meeting, it should make for some interesting discussion.

From: Max Redman
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Semi-hydroponics.
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007

Hello folks,
I thought that I would show you a couple of plants that are grown in an
inert material and pure water.
These plants have been growing and flowering in this manner for a number of
years and only very ocasionally get fertilized.
The cymbidium has just recently finished flowering and you can see the new
growths coming up on the cattleyas in the glasshouse.
Hope that it is of interest to some of you.
What do they say about not keeping the roots wet??
Cheers
Max,

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk]..heating costs
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007

> I must say that I was some what surprised at the total lack of comment to
> my observation re the cost of heating. I suppose it depends on where and
> how you grow your Orchids, heating obliviously won't be a matter of great
> concern to growers over the pond and in the warmer parts of Europe.

I wonder if this is one question that most of us simply do not want to think
about ? − if we did we might give up ! But then, I tell myself that I don't
gamble, have no mistress (shame) (joke ! ) am not (yet) an alcoholic , I
don't smoke or "do drugs" , I am not allowed to beat my wife, so- I must
have some vices.

Many years ago we used to anguish over spending five bob a week ( 25p) to
heat a tiny greenhouse growing cymbidiums. But now you can take answer (a)
- we live in an affluent society , or (b) I spent 51 years at the mill with
my nose to the grindstone ( metaphorically)_ and now I'm spending my savings
- and a lot of orchid growers are in the answer (b) situation.

And you are right Ron that relatively few people in the north grow orchids
- of course there are a few − Sheffield Soc.for example used to have a lot
of members. Manchester & North of England was I think UK premier Society ,
but I haven't heard of them for years, maybe gone to the wall ? And even
Scotland has a society now. But I would guess it still adds up to a smaller
percentage of the population than in the South. The causes being obviously ,
mainly social − ( economic in terms of income) but after that, heating
costs must be very much higher in say Newcastle on Tyne than in Weston super
Mare .

It was not just a coincidence that the largest odont nursery used to be in
Leeds. A place where the sun never shone,( don't throw bricks, it's just a
slight exaggeration, and I'm in my nuclear shelter already) mist on the
moors ( ideal humidity) and heating the greenhouse to a mere 8 deg. C. was
not too expensive, hence local customers got what they wanted.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] composts − foam
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007

Geoff, Sorry, I meant to say that the ''Bloom'' version seems to encourage pseudo bulbs and the ''Grow'' version seems to promote leaves. The description on 'bloom' quotes flowers and the 'grow' version quotes leaves. Pseudo bulbs are not quoted. A few years ago I used a high nitrogen fertiliser − got fantastic leaves that fell over and no pseudo bulbs.
Regards from a so far sunny Devon. Dennis

in this overcast depressing weather do many with green hses use suplimentary
lighting?if so for what orchids?
tom

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Xmas is a comming !!!
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007

I have just received Burnham Nurseries E-mail showing some nice plants for sale, but the prices.......................

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Vanda tricolor var. suavis
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007

This is the first time that this plant blooms with 2 inflorescenses at the same time.
Each with 9 blooms. It grows better under intermediate conditions. I have another
plant which I grow in the hothouse and it is not doing very well. I'll have to give
it a new place to grow. Usually both plants flowered at the same time, but this
year the other plant doesn't show anything.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Suitable containers for growing orchids.
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007

As Geoff said we are all mad but in different ways. How true, but it's the humour in life that keeps us going, and growing orchids.

When Geoff said that it was a waste of a beer glass I thought that Tricia may just allow me to send this photo which came to me from another orchid nut from the Sydney area of Oz.

I feel sure that Geoff could grow a few of the large rooted Vandas in these glasses.

Hi Folks,
Yesterday I sent a message to the tissue culture site with a number of
attached pictures to illustrate what I was talking about.
When I looked at it I see that none of the pictures were attached. I think
this is something to do with yahoo as whenever a link is shown from this
group it goes to yahoo and I am unable to open it.
Anyway, here are the pictures and if you read the e-mail in conjunction with
them you will be able to understand what it is all about.
Hope tat this makes sense.
Cheers
Max

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Suitable containers for growing orchids.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Rocky,
I think you are mistaken; Any fool can tell that the illustrated people are but a mere 30cm high. However, you have to hand it to those Aussies, compared to their diminutive size they seem to manage a plastic 'glass' of daught XXXX very well (or is that milk in the white ones?).
Mad? All of us? You speak for yourself
John

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Vanda tricolor var. suavis
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Hello Peter -
A very excellent blooming! Can you tell me if these
flowers are scented? I have a small seedling, so it
will be a wait, but I understood that the flowers were
nicely perfumed.
Regards − Nancy in south Louisiana

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Paph curiosity
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Do you recognize this Paph? The plant is labeled Paph. wardii x
praestans. This is a vigorous hybrid that grows quickly, blooms
reliably, and is slowly being spread around South Dakota and
Wyoming. It is a smallish plant, less than a foot in height, with
faintly mottled leaves. So far I and others have found no
information about such a cross being registered, nor widely
marketed. Rumor hath it, that the cross is probably from a presently
undetermined Dutch breeder. It was acquired by a friend from a
nursery in Florida, and my division is from her plant. Information
tracking has hit a dead-end on these muddy shores of the pond. So,
my questions are: 1) Is this a known hybrid on your side of the
great waters? 2) Are you familiar with the possible origins of the
cross?

From: James H
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] lighting
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

i grow all my plants under lights, i prefer to use metal halide for cats and
other light loving plants and for ones that do well with less i use T5
fluorescents with those purple plant bulbs.

> in this overcast depressing weather do many with green hses use
> suplimentary lighting?if so for what orchids?
> tom
>

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Suitable containers for growing orchids.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

I am sure they have another useful purpose after drinking all that beer!!!
Gordon.

From: James H
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: LC. ANGEL HEART 'HIHIMANU' AM/AOS
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

I bought this a few years ago and this is the first bloom, best growing catt
i have ever owned, it has 2 flowers open and another 3 buds to go :)

the last one is a carrion flower, not an orchid i know but thought some
might find it interesting

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Semi Hydroonics
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

I wasn't sure whether Shale and Leca are the same things.
I had a very bad experience with Leca last year. A friend
gave me some of these balls to try, was imported from
Germany some years ago. I selected 6 different keikis and
potted them in Leca. Within 2 weeks all 6 were gone. They
just shrivelled up, starting from the roots. I did some
enquiries over the Phalaenopsis Alliance and nobody could
give any explanation. So, I took the balls put them into
a net and hung them into the swimming pool for a week to
rinse. After that I put them into a container with water
and some Physan. A week later I rinsed them in plain water
and placed them in the sun to dry for some time. Then I
started all over again and potted some keikis into the
now "clean" balls and the plants started to grow new roots,
leaves, and spikes and flowered. When I reported this back
to the Phalaenopsis Alliance then some people said, yes
they should be rinsed before use, because there could be
some toxins from the manufacturing process. I would probably
make use of them, because they are lightweight, but they are
not available here in SA.
Peter from Bloubergstrand

> The baked clay balls are sold under many different names, and vary a
> bit in other respects too − One maker produces ones in the 6-8mm size
> which are almost like ball bearings, and another produces 12-15mm lumps
> which are much rougher − as yours are. I have bought them at times
> under the name Hydroleca and also 'Leca. There is very little
> difference in their value for the plants though − I believe it is the
> simple physical fact of air spaces between them, and the balls
> remaining wet on their faces due to capillary action.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] grand tidy up in the greenhouse − visitorsexpected soon
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

I would never think about, to " Spring Clean " the greenhouse for
any visitors. They are welcome to visit as it is. I remove the one
or other leaf that fell onto the ground or lying between the pots,
every day when I'm in the greenhouse, but would never go from plant
to plant and polish it for visitors. It is a working environment,
so to say, the plants are growing 24/7, non-stop, and not a museum.
I had Michael Ooi and family here recently when he was in Cape Town
for the Expo 2007
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Vanda tricolor var. suavis
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

I do like these "other " vandas. This one seems to be fairly variable . I
have seen it shown with flowers some 3 inches high ( 7.5cm) and also as
small as 2 inches (5cm). My own larger plant , grown from a seedling from
the firm near Antwerp ( I can't think of their name at the moment) did not
flower until it was quite large and then produced two spikes very similar to
yours, but I was disappointed in their short life. It has not flowered since
( 2 years now) but has produced an offset or branch or whatever, from near
the base, although the growing tip is still good. I wonder if you have put
your finger on it − growing temperature. What do you mean by intermediate
and hot Peter ? ( in terms of minimum night temperatures) ?

The best of them − for me − so far, is V.lamellata v boxallii which produces
spiukes in pairs quite frequently, and they last for several months.

> This is the first time that this plant blooms with 2 inflorescenses at the
> same time.

> Each with 9 blooms. It grows better under intermediate conditions. I have
> another plant which I grow in the hothouse and it is not doing very well.
> I'll have to give it a new place to grow. Usually both plants flowered at
> the same time, but this year the other plant doesn't show anything.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Paph curiosity
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

I am familiar with both parents − the mottled leaves come from wardii which
has quite hairy petals , no-where near as shiny as in your pic ( although
paphs don't photograph well − the pictures are lovely, but not really true
to life IMHO). Praestans is said to be a synonym for glanduliferum , which
of course provides the multi-flowering possibility , and also most of your
colouring.
Wardii I think of as basically green, praestans as yellow/brown.
The petals are narrower and longer ( with praestans) than wardii , and your
plant certainly looks intermediate of the two so I'd guess this to be a true
name.

We do see a lot of similar paphs , un-named, in garden centres, coming over
the water from The Netherlands.( most of the garden centre orchids in UK are
un-named, or named as either "Cambria" or "Orchid" ).
When I did a tour of the Dutch nurseries a few years ago , with another
member of this group , I was surprised to see just how many large growing
units we drove past , several of which announced their speciality as being
paphs. I have learnt that they are favourite pot plants in (continental)
Europe − a much larger percentage of their population live in apartments
without gardens than is the case in UK, and paphs are liked because they
will remain in flower for months at a time. Of course they throw them away
after flowering.

> Do you recognize this Paph? The plant is labeled Paph. wardii x praestans.
> This is a vigorous hybrid that grows quickly, blooms reliably, and is slowly
> being spread around South Dakota and Wyoming. It is a smallish plant, less
> than a foot in height, with faintly mottled leaves.

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Suitable containers for growing orchids.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Well bred Australians do not drink beer from plastic containers. Wine maybe, if we really have to.

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Glovebox.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

I did something similar myself a few years ago. Got the gloves from a vet.
They use them for sticking their arms in cows and horses.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] LC. ANGEL HEART 'HIHIMANU' AM/AOS
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Hi James,
Nice to see your pics and to find someone else interested in both orchids and succulents. As for the stapelia, some certainly would find it interesting if only you could send an attachment of its scent!
Wish I could succeed repeatedly with my stapelias − what's the trick?
Thanks
John

From: "Blowers, Dave"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] lighting
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

I have a 250W Metal Halide, and have just bought a 400W MH with a
Jupiter II lightrail to move it back and forth over a 2m length.

I can't say I could prove it improves overall health, in particular I
wonder whether perhaps improvements would only come with raised
temperatures as well as raised light, but the light levels are so poor,
especially through several layers of bubble wrap that it seems a
reasonable proposition. The fact that they generate a lot of heat can
only be a benefit in winter as well.

As a side benefit -it kind of cheers me up as well to have a small patch
of summer

> in this overcast depressing weather do many with green hses use
> suplimentary lighting?if so for what orchids?
> tom

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Glovebox.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Hi Max,
Perhaps not entirely irrelevant to your message but, notwithstanding the
reference to Spamfighter, your emails go straight into my spam folder where
I discovered this one when tidying up!
− I wonder why?
John

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cycnoches and Cycnodes
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Lasts year we had a discussion, when several of us here in the group all
bought plants from a show − and wondered how well we would do this year,

Last year, as purchased , it had a bulb as thick as my ring finger and maybe
20-25 cm high.

My bulb from just 12 months of cultivation is a little shorter , say 15cm,
but definitely thicker − (than my thumb) . Last year 2 flowers, maybe 6 or
7cm span, this year two flowers 12cm span. I think I'm not doing badly ?

I looked it up in a few books. My old Williams Orchid manual − from the
century before last − says 12 high bulbs ( 30cm) and up to a dozen flowers
5 inch (12.5cn). Jay's internet encyclopaedia says medium sized, "few to
several flowered inflorescence" of flowers 7 inch (17.5cm).

And talking about shows, since I missed both Boga and Peterboro, I'm getting
withdrawal symptoms ( no , I'm definitely not going to Miami for the WOC) -
but it seems a very long time to the London Show in mid-march. Why are there
no proper (international) orchid shows in UK in the autumn I wonder ? If the
Boga show was in October instead of that dreadful August Bank Holiday when
you can't move on the roads, and anyway, family want to visit before the
school term starts, I'd be there every year ( maybe).

012 − yes I know its upside down − is to show you the swan orchid − two
swans, actually

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Suitable containers for growing orchids.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Paph curiosity
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Geoff,
Many thanks for the information and insights on the wardii x
praestans (glanduliferum) bastard breeding.

The photo's are actually not too far off of the real thing, and other
than reducing their size for e-mailing they were not color adjusted.
Indeed, slippers are most always difficult subjects for photography.
In this case I used a Nikon D200 with a 105 mm Micro Nikkor (1:2.8)
and a Sigma EM140DG flash (a pair of small strobs mounted front of
the lens). I almost always use manual settings. With this setup
general macro work is pretty good, but the recent crop of Nikon
digital cameras and lens are not very good with rendering the red
tones. Hence, the `purples' and `browns' are often terribly
uninspiring.

The onslaught of un-named and `disposible' plants is increasing over
here, too. The advent of orchid sales at Walmart and other large
chains is I think largely to blame. On one hand this trend is good
in that cheaper plants [price and quality] are available for people
than might not have previously indulged in orchids. On another,
there is now the growing tendency for industrial cropping of orchids,
much as on the order of growing grains (e.g., wheat, corn) and
soybeans here in the middle of North America − uninspiring,
monotonous, production cost controlled. My understanding is that
this was exactly an attempt by Ratcliffe's when they first opened
their Florida operation, now apparently closed. But, that was just a
rumor, though that is where my plant originated and now I see why the
reluctance by them to provide information − there was nothing to
provide.

From: Drexel Standley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] is there anyone there ?
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Yes l am here, and very much interested with your growing culture. Could
you explain more to me do you use water or some mix to feed your
orchid's. l have seen some of your picture's of your plant's and l have
wondered how you grew them so good Beryl Standley

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Potshards.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Potshards, or as they are sometimes spelt, potsherds are just pieces of broken clay flower pots to me, and highly useful they are.

I know that some of you are trying my method of culture using clay pots and stone 'chippings'.

Well, to tell you the truth, pieces of broken clay flower pot work equally as well, and they don't cost the earth, especially if you have some broken pots about your garden and/or workshop.

And in case you had not noticed they can be broken up to EXACTLY the same size and shape is pieces of bark.

They do 'Hold the damp' very well, never decompose, and offer the roots an excellent area in which to sprawl about.

You wrote:
> Yes l am here, and very much interested with your growing
> culture. Could you explain more to me do you use water or some mix to feed
> your orchid's. l have seen some of your picture's of your plant's and l
> have wondered how you grew them so good

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Swan Orchid.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Where did you buy the plant from and have they got any other nice items that are not seen that much.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Suitable containers for growing orchids.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

> Well bred Australians do not drink beer from plastic containers. Wine
> maybe, if we really have to.

From: James H
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] LC. ANGEL HEART 'HIHIMANU' AM/AOS
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

well thats my first stapelia and im sure nobody would want me to send its
sent out to the list :O it smells like rotten meat mixed with rotten milk.
My gf hates it but i dont find the smell travels past a foot or 2.
i potted mine in a mixture of sand peat and african violet mix, probably
about 4-1-2 and i water it every few days, it sits on a bright windowsill
with my dragon fruit and blood orange tree, all doing well and in the same
mix
i started this one from seed, i was sold 10 seeds and only 1 grew but in one
year it bloomed and overflows from the pot.

ps.
im interested to hear what people have to say about my Lc. i should have
taken a picture of the pot, its handmade fired clay with no glaze full of
holes and a mesh for a bottom, i have never had orchids do so well and i
will be getting more pots of a similar construction as soon as i can find
someone else who is getting into pottery (my sister made it as a gift).
currently i am switching from traditional orchid mixes of bark to hydrotron
and lecia but this one was in bark still but maybe next year i will repot
into hyrdotron.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Culture.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

Actually, not *all* of us are wondering − if you look at the headers of
Beryl's message (and how many of us do that?) it is clear that she was replying to Ron B's reply to Geoff's query 'is there anyone here?'...

There has been a lot of traffic since Ron B's message so possibly a good
example of why it's a good idea to mention the subject matter in the body
of the message as well as in the subject line.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Swan Orchid.
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

> Where did you buy the plant from and have they got any other nice items
> that are not seen that much.

I'll second that. I would also like to know where I can get a Cycnoches
chlorochilon.

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Vanda tricolor var. suavis
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007

A picture of Vanda tricolor var. suavis taken at a club meeting this month
in Perth. (Not the Scottish one)

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2007 Archived Messages

15—21 November