2007 mailing list messages

2007 Archived Messages

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Francis, I have just heard that the OSGB are organising a trip to Ecuador. Contact Sally Mill at sally.mill@genzyme.com .
Regards Dennis

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Cattleya maxima
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007

Three weeks for a C. maxima is fairly normal. Some of the Bc.s last only a week and C. skinneri lasts 2 weeks. I have a blue skinneri that opens pure white and is a beautiful blue on it's last two days. I also have an alba skinneri that has a pink lip during its last two days. C. skinneri semialba'David Jordon' is on my site: http://togofcoralgables.com/Cskinneri.aspx

From: yanelys luis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: thank for your help Roger help me again
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007

My name is yanelys and I think that my orchid is an endemic cuban specie,
so I think maybe for you is hard to be sure what kind of orchid is

I only have two pictures of that orchid and you can see al least one leave
in this one I send you

I'm sending you pictures of another orchid I have and I don't know what kind
is it either

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Pleased as Punch!!!
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007

As my photo shows, It's Paphiopedilum Spicerianum. Not the most fabulous Spicerianum in the world maybe, but at least growing and flowering in my new mix I am very delighted with it.

From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Tropical rain
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007

Yes very interesing Geoff. I have summered a couple of plants from branches of my greengage tree and they did very well so maybe they benefitted. I must do a few experiments next year and measure the EC.
I wonder if pine and fir forests would give different results?

> Geoff,, Just read your article in Orchid Review. Very interesting and
> informative...

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cuban Orchids.
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007

So, you live in Cuba [I think]..........that's a good piece of information for us to work with. Your English is O.K. and you say that is 'not good', well, it's better than some English people.

The two photos of the green flowered orchid with many flowers. This is for sure an Epidendrum, but of course the name was changed and some of them are now called Encyclia. In one of my books it looks like Encyclia belizensis.

Your first photo showing some orchids growing on trees shows us that the bulbs seem very hard and also then leaves look hard/firm, also this looks like bulbs and leaves of Encyclias.

I have had another look at the photo that you first sent, and the one with the leaves, and there is an Encyclia that does have the strange looking 'teeth/fangs' behind the lip. So, maybe it is a kind of Encyclia or a hybrid.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Ecuador
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

Thanks for that info. I have already got in touch with
her last week. They are going in April 2009, which is
not what I had planned for. However, I am thinking
about it, and I might join them then, and go somewhere
else this coming summer.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] thank for your help Roger help me again
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

The plain yellow one is probably an encyclia . Looks very much like sevral I
have in my collection, as shown here from time to time. It may need a
botanist to say which one − or certainly a plant in the hand rather than a
photo.

Try looking for a Cuban flora..( book − listing/showing all Cuban flower
species ) It's not the kind of thing many people have in theior library ,
here in UK.

> My name is yanelys and I think that my orchid is an endemic cuban specie,
> so I think maybe for you is hard to be sure what kind of orchid is

> I only have two pictures of that orchid and you can see al least one leave
> in this one I send you

> I'm sending you pictures of another orchid I have and I don't know what kind
> is it either

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: FW: [OrchidTalk] thank for your help Roger help me again
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

Ps the one you showed first looked vandaceous , rather like a plant I grew a
very long time ago under the name ( as far as I can remember) Esmerelda
clarkeii or maybe E. cathcartii , but they ( unless my memory is playing me
tricks − quite likely ! − are South East Asian species and not found in the
New World.

> The plain yellow one is probably an encyclia . Looks very much like sevral I
> have in my collection, as shown here from time to time. It may need a
> botanist to say which one − or certainly a plant in the hand rather than a
> photo.

> Try looking for a Cuban flora..( book − listing/showing all Cuban flower
> species ) It's not the kind of thing many people have in theior library ,
> here in UK.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Tropical rain
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

By the way , the editor of OR ( who inserted that annoying #it is largely an unanswered question as to how nutrients become available to tree dwelling orchids# ( I thought that the whole point of my article was to answer that very question ! ) # and who by the way is a well known orchid botanist herself # told me that she had never heard of anyone seriously asking this question or trying my experiments#

It seems amazing to me that we have been trying to grow the things for a few hundred years and no one has indeed asked or answered it, but there you are ! And if I#m wrong , then I shall be very interested indeed to read genuine published results # none of your # Oh I#ve known that for years but never bothered to put in print# nonsense.

And as to fir trees Alex , yes it had occurred to me to wonder ; on the one hand they are green plants too , but they don#t transpire a lot I would have thought # in the rain forest it is the sappy green growths ( vines etc) which must have tremendous sap pressure to keep them standing up, hence leak a lot and contribute to the orchid feed. Trees have wood which does the job without wasting sap all the time.

> Yes very interesing Geoff. I have summered a couple of plants from
> branches of my greengage tree and they did very well so maybe they
> benefitted. I must do a few experiments next year and measure the EC.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Five days.
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

I was interested to find out how long it took for my Paph flower to open fully. Five days so far and I think that is about it.

The photos also show my interest in why the two lovely petals twist in opposite directions.

I have noticed that my Paph. Spicerianum, although not having twisted petals, do slightly twist, but in the same direction.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: We learn all the time !!!
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

When I sit in my conservatory, my little plant of Rodreguizia sits just to the right of me, and I have been enjoying the sight of the four flower spikes gradually opening.

It was when the first few flowers had opened that I noticed the lip had some tiny pointed 'teeth' at its bottom end.

It was then that I observed that the bottom two sepals grew in a much more downward position than a lot of our orchids. The tiny 'teeth' were in fact the pointed ends of the lower two sepals that grew quite close together and even just poked out beneath the lip.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Rodreguizia
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] what kind of orchid I have
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

I think it is an Encyclia, but very difficult to say which one.
There are about 150 Encyclia species.

From: yanelys luis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: I think it is a encyclia tampense
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

thanks again for you help
yes, I live in cuba and I started to grow orchids just 2 years ago because I
was on a trip on the mountains and I bought some orchids, I have some
dendrobiums, encyclias and other orchids that I cant identify
I think that my orchid looks more like an Encyclia tampense than an Encyclia
belizensis, I found in the web an article about Encyclia tampense and there
is an endemic orchid from this specie in cuba named amesiana
well write me back to know what you think about it

From: yanelys luis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: I think my orchid is encyclia tampense var
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Five days.
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Cuban Orchids.
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007

Hi Rocky,
I don't think that it comes close to Enc. belizensis. E. belizensis
has narrower petals and looks more longish.
Coming back to the first picture that he sent, it is possible that it
is Enc. vespa. Enc. vespa it widespread throughout the american tropics
and it is a very variable species, still it is very difficult to be
certain.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cuban orchid ???
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007

I think that I may have the start to finding out more about the orchid that you have no name for.

You will remember me saying that I noticed the 'fangs' at the bottom of the lip, or slightly behind the lip.

Well, I have just seen a photo in one of my books of, Encyclia vespa, and it has tiny 'fangs' on it. Also the markings on the flower are similar but not quite.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Phalaenopsis parishii
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007

Now it's my turn to be *chuffed*. I do know the meaning of this word. I have heard it
here in SA before, although not often.
The attached picture shows Phalaenopsis parishii. It is now 7 years old und blooms
like never before. It carries 28 blooms and 15 buds. I grow it in the hothouse very
shady and cooler as the other Phallies.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Peoples thoughts!!!
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007

I can see why you are so chuffed with your Phalaenopsis Parishii, a splendid plant.

We must have been reading each other's thoughts as we both came up with the Encyclia vespa theory.

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phalaenopsis parishii
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007

From: rudolf günnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phalaenopsis parishii
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007

Your Phal. parishii is really impressive − a real stunner.
So far I have never seen a plant with such a great amount of flowers before
- at least here in Germany they are regularly shown with 3-5 sometime few
more blooms. I also havn't seen it growing on cement coated plaques but it
seems it likes it (so far I just knew the article about cement coated
plaques for mounting orchids).
Well done − gut gemacht.

PS. Hier in Deutschland regnet und schneit es − ein wirkliches Mistwetter.
Ich glaube in Südafrika ist es jetzt besser auszuhalten.

> Now it's my turn to be *chuffed*. I do know the meaning of this word. I
> have heard it here in SA before, although not often. The attached picture
> shows Phalaenopsis parishii. It is now 7 years old und blooms like never
> before. It carries 28 blooms and 15 buds. I grow it in the hothouse very
> shady and cooler as the other Phallies.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phalaenopsis parishii
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007

Superb plant − I too would like to know about the plaque its growing on ,
and how do you water it ?

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phalaenopsis parishii
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007

Well grown, Peter! I just hope that my recently acquired P. parishii will do well under my care.

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: a common 'no id' Dendrobium hybrid
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007

I bought this plant about a month ago with 3 spikes of unopened buds. Here's what it looks like in full bloom:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_5882b.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_5884b.jpg

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Phalaenopsis parishii
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007

The plant was bought as a seedling 7 years ago. It didn't grow well in a pot.
So I mounted it and then it started really growing.
It is mounted on a polystyrene block which is covered with ordinary cement.
I attach an article which was in ORCHIDS magazine, which explains the
whole procedure.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Polystyrene slab culture.
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007

I feel sure that you will be getting many replies to do with various items that are included on the information sheet.

2. I see no point whatsoever in putting a layer of coconut husk over the roots..........it sure don't happen in nature.

3. The information sheet states: 'The lack of potting medium eliminates any worry about its breaking down or the build-up of fertiliser salts.'. How very true.

Peter, have you ever tried to grow orchids on a slab of polystyrene without coating it with anything???

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polystyrene slab culture.
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007

I found it very surprising, in fact without the picture and the info. I
would have been very sceptical indeed.

Cement is very alkaline , and whilst I can't go along with Roger's comment
about layers of coconut husk over the roots "don't happen in nature" ( in
the first place, it does − I have seen an orchid growing in the wild on a
fallen coconut, in Sri Lanka , and rooting very nicely, thank you ; and in
the second place it is so easy to say that about almost to do with orchids.;
you don't see orchids in square pots in the wild, or in pots at all , or
watered with Peters orchid feed, or Maxicrop, or growing in pebbles, and on
and on.) . Once you grow an orchid in UK , in a greenhouse, everything is
different.

I shan't be rushing to copy, but still admire the culture here − clearly
everything is exactly right.

> I feel sure that you will be getting many replies to do with various
> items that are included on the information sheet.

> 2. I see no point whatsoever in putting a layer of coconut husk over
> the roots..........it sure don't happen in nature.

> 3. The information sheet states: 'The lack of potting medium
> eliminates any worry about its breaking down or the build-up of
> fertiliser salts.'. How very true.

> Peter, have you ever tried to grow orchids on a slab of polystyrene
> without coating it with anything???

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polystyrene slab culture.
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007

Hi All,
Having silently followed the discussion about 'polystyrene' slab (or fragment) as a culture medium I find myself revisiting ideas from far back. In fact, I begin to wonder if there is anything more or less inert that orchids won't grow on!

'More or less inert' may well be the operative words; if there is no risk of adverse chemical effects then it all boils down to physical properties − doesn't it?

The only physical properties I can think of that could be relevant are;
1. Is is porous (expanded polystyrene isn't) and therefore capable of holding water in its pores (assuming the plant 'wants' a damp substrate). (sandstone pieces, natural tuff or synthetic pearlite, rockwool − although there are varieties treated to repel water −
2. Or, is it simply permiable (allowing water through but not holding it)? (scoriaceous lava , some limestone (but not inert), flint pieces, charcoal etc..
3. Whatever it is, will it stay that way or crumble or get blocked up with algae?
4 Does it look good? (not entirely irrelevant!)
5. One might ask if a substrate is needed at all? Or does it simply provide a sheltered environment to keep the roots from direct sun? (Many orchids do well enough!) Or simply prevent the plant falling over.

What we really need to do are controlled experiments but I'll bet we'd be reinventing the wheel. Someone, somewhere, once must have done some . . . . . .?

One anxiety I would personally have over expanded polystyrene is that there are different varieties; for example, some is treated (with what I wonder?) to render it less of a fire hazard. Another is treated with a coating to enable it to be painted (I presume with paint that would otherwise dissolve it or to allow water based paint to spread. In either case, broken fragments would offer untreated surfaces I suppose (?)

So much depends on individuals' preferences and we can't assume that one person's ideal is great for someone else. There must be a host of extraneous factors we're missing out on.

A related topic; if we bind the plants to a slab of bark, polystyrene or whatever, what do we use to bind it with? I notice an increasing number of sellers using, of all things, copper wire! Maybe it is from transformers of some source where the fine wire is insulated with a varnish but I would have thought that copper is one the the last elements one might choose for the purpose. Copper compounds are notoriously toxic to plants. However, we have a few so fixed to cork mounts and they show no distress . . . yet.
Comments?
John

From: Sylvain VAN DER WALDE
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polystyrene slab culture.
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007

In my experience, roots will grow _through_ polystyrene. This may or may not
answer your question about the cement.

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Culture on inert 'stuff' was slab culture
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007

Greetings John -
I grow my terete-leafed vandas on a cylinder of wire
mesh (like chicken wire). The plants are wired to the
outside, with nothing else (no moss, bark, etc.) and
they seem to flourish, so long as the sun shines and
they get watered frequently.
The roots readily wrap around the wire, though just as
many grow off into space.
Regards − Nancy (balmy south Louisiana)

~~~~~~~~~~~
"Age does not protect you from love. But
love, to some extent, protects you from age."
---------------Anais Nin

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Polystyrene slab culture.
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007

Quite a few answers/questions from you that I am sure other people will touch on, but one that I will have a go.

Your item No.5. tells it all. I always LOOK at what Mother Nature does, and so as you say, and I totally agree with you, is the fact that an orchid must have a very good FOUNDATION.

Tomorrow, if I remember and have the time, I will take a few photographs of one of my pieces of Dendrobium delicatum growing in a hollow block of polystyrene. Not sure how I came by it, but it was to be thrown away, and I looked at it and said to myself, "this could come in handy".

And as you also said, orchids CAN grow very successfully in a variety of 'items', as long as they do not disintegrate.

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polystyrene slab culture.
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007

I have a Phalaenopsis modesta grown on a slab of bare styrofoam. It is growing well and has produced 3 spikes but the spikes refuse to develop any flower buds

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polystyrene slab culture.
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007

On the subject of growing orchids on or near any kind of plastic at all, it
should be remembered that many kinds of plastic are produced using moulds or
rollers or what-have-you in the machinery line which is sometimes lubricated
with quite complex chemicals which can be inimical to orchids if not plant
life in general − even in incredibly minute proportions. This could explain
why one person had a bad experience and another doing apparently the same
thing has every success − the one had traces of something poisonous, and the
other not.

Some years ago another National Collection holder- who will be known to most
here (?) as Chairman of the RHS Orchid committee and as a Lycaste expert (
correction − The Lycaste expert) − had great problems with his collection
and traced it to using a bubble-film plastic lining to his greenhouse which
had been produced using some kind of mould release spray which was poisonous
at least to orchids. I think it was written up somewhere. This was I think
in the early days of such material when it was being sold for packaging ;
nowadays I think ( hope ! ) that the kind we buy has been produced for
horticultural purposes and should be OK in that respect − although I still
put mine on the outside of the greenhouse rather than the inside for that
among other reasons − the other reasons being that it is much easier at
least in my case, and also just as effective.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Polystyrene, cement, whatever.
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007

As Sylvain said, roots of an orchid will grow through the walls of polystyrene. My photo, No 1. show this, and in the other two photos then roots have taken an easier route.

Esther confirms this fact, which of course brings me on to what Geoff has said: Why the hell would anyone want to paint it with a cement wash ?????

Then Nancy tells us how she grows some of her Vandas. Nothing to rot or decay..........no problem.

Geoff's comment about cement being alkaline is quite correct. If you handle cement with bare hands you will soon know about it as the skin soon shows. So why choose cement????? Why coat it with anything? Sure don't need it.

Back to my plant of Dendrobium delicatum growing in stone chippings in the polystyrene 'box'. If I remember correctly it came via the Mother-in-Law as she had an alarm clock delivered in it. I quite often use Dendrobium delicatum as an experiment plant because it grows so very easily, and of course it sends up so many young plants.

I must admit that I was very surprised when an orchid root thrust its way through one inch of polystyrene. If that's not anchoring itself to its host, then I don't know what is.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polystyrene, cement, whatever.
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007

Hi Rocky,
Are you saying that the orchid roots found their way through the polystyrene (and you enlarged the holes) or that the roots found the holes to get through?
John

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Water quality.
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007

I remembered that I wanted to chat to you all about water quality, so here goes.

I cannot remember exactly what triggered my memory, but it was all to do with tap water and where it came from.

I know for a fact that a friend of mine who lives in Cornwall between Redruth and Camborne ALWAYS use tap/mains water on his orchids. He even sprays overhead with tap water. Of course, his tap water does not run through layers of chalk like mine, as Cornwall, at least his part does not have layers of chalk, but the water is collected and runs through rock. That's why it is called 'soft' water. If you look at the electric element in an electric kettle in that area it always looks as good as new, even if it is SEVEN years old. I know!!!

Look at elements in our kettles, emersion heaters, dishwashers etc and you will see the difference. Heavy corrosion after just a few months. Very 'hard' water.

So what am I getting at. You all know that I marvel at the wonderful honeycombed structure of orchid roots and that I keep telling people not to let that structure be clogged by nasty items..........well, I must say that surely the nasty items that are present in MY tap water will eventually clog the pores.

To this extent, I have not used tap water for a year or so and I can see a complete difference.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-29
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2007 Archived Messages

8—14 November