2007 mailing list messages

2007 Archived Messages

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From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Can anyone suggest a name?
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007

Come on now Roger , it's a hybrid in the Laeliniae − as you knew before you
asked. Anything further than that is a guess .

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Myrmecophila & Schomburgkia in intermediate greenhouse
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007

It has to be very air-tight, or you will get flow from one part into the
other whether you want it or not .

Some years ago I had a 40 foot long house diivided into 4 by glassed
partitions with doors − and there was maybe an inch or two ( at the most)
below the doors, for various reasons − with the aim of having different
temperatures, but most of the time the temperature was the same all the way
along .

Some years ago I was trying to design the most thermally efficient dwelling
house ( long before the days of global warming panic ) and I learnt that in
the average estate semi in UK the unintended gaps add up to the equivalent
of a hole 500mm x 500mm − just in crack between door and brickwork, around
pipes entering the house, ill-fitting windows, etc.

And the "plastic you use for the divider will itself lead to quite a high
rate of heat loss − depending on the difference in temperature between
opposite faces etc. Of course you can do it, but you will probably find you
need to over-specify the heating in the warmer section and reduce it ( from
what it is already) in the cooler section , to get what you want .

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fatal attraction.
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007

My present house was a building site for probably 18 months from the first
clearing of the jungle ( yes, we do have jungles in England, if a patch of
land is fenced off and left for 50 years ) and when I moved in, my entire
plot was a dust-bowl, with no green-leaf anywhere ; no buds, no bees, no
bugs, no slugs, and they didn't wander in. Three months later when the
landscape gardeners had done their stuff and I started planting, I started
to get visitors --- why ? well they must have sensed the greenery.

And it is a matter of experience that all pests have their favourite plants
. Red spider goes with nobile dendrobiums like strawberries with cream. Soft
scale goes with plicate leaved things like Calanthes the same way,
mealy-bug and phalaenopsis go together, soft scale with cattleyas , slugs
and buds.. Of course in a badly infested house , everything will get
everything ( more or less) but the things I list are the first places to
look.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Another ascocenda
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007

That is very remarkable colour for an ascocenda − I've got Mokaras and other
more complex vandaceous crosses ( which are more star-shaped, less round)
that colour, and Vandas too, butnothing such a delicate pink in the actual
Asco line.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Tweak it a bit.
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007

Where do you live on this planet of ours? So that we can have a guess at your winter requirements.

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Provado
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007

Yes, Lynda, as you may have noticed, it certainly caused me severe
irritation in my eyes.

> ...I urge all of you who are using or considering using these products so
> freely to do so with due caution........... remember that DDT was once
> thought to be the panacea to all insect pest problems but had far reaching
> 'issues' from which some species are still trying to recover. Whilst I am
> not suggesting that these new compounds have the capacity to do damage on
> such a scale because I am not qualified to do so, I would urge them to be
> sparingly and used as a last resort. They are not the reletively harmless (
> to warm-bloods) that the chemical industry may attempt to convince you that
> they are.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fatal attraction.
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007

Sorry for the error , I should have said hard scale go with plicate leaved
plants − although the soft scale also like them.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: 2 orchids you may not know...
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007

Octomeria gehrtii I have shown before. It's a cattleya relative, that is to
say it is in the laeliniae . It has the charming habit of flowering on the
same cane, year after year. I have had it 3-4 years, and as long as the
canes stay green, they repeat flower. This year it produced 3 new canes, two
of which are flowering − but not as freely as the old ones ( maybe that
comes in successive years ) . It is a pity that the flowers are perhaps
even less than one cm in dia. − but you can't have everything. I have 14
canes flowering !

Galeandra stylomisanthera is quite charming, and has unusual flowers.
Tubular lip ( hardly the right word for this shape ! ) extended at the back
, and then a long spur − probably with a nectary in the end . And the petals
and sepals perched on top, half way along , like some afterthought !.

That very knowledgable lady who runs a nursery in Ecuador or is it Peru ? (
sorry, I'm having a bad day for memory) but who came over to OSGB to give a
lecture one July a year or two ago, brought it for me, as part of my
pre-order. On such occasions I try to get "different" orchids, which are
unobtainable here − as far as I know − ( the Octomeria came by a similar
route). I think this must be seed-raised and the cane I have made this year
is just about the same size as the last at the nursery. One pic shows the
plant in it's 2 inch pot . It hangs up with my Vandas and many others of my
"weirdie species" collection.

The other orchid ( apart from many Vandas and ascos etc, which I always have
out , so they are not "special" any more − but which is too well known to
be worth showing you I think − which is a special delight at the moment is
Brassavola perrinia , one of the ladies of the night orchids ( such a
romantic name − what a pity the name has an alternative more sordid meaning
! ) which I have repositioned so that it greets me at eye level when I open
the greenhouse door. I know many people who grow this on a plaque and the
plant grows all round and has lots of spikes ; mine has only one, although I
am now up to 3 canes, the other two being, maybe , nearly big enough to
flower. I am specially delighted with it, because it really does prefer
plaque culture and I do badly with such orchids ( or culture) because of the
amount of time I am away from home perhaps, so they are not getting the
treatment they like. So I grow it in a pot − but it is flourishing in spite
of that.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 orchids you may not know...
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007

p.s my dearly beloved, reading over my shoulder says that the nicest orchid
out at the moment is that 'purple one in the jardinière on the dining table'
, which is LC Fred Robert 'La Tuilerie'. I had forgotten he orchids I the
house when writing earlier.

From: Tina Stagg
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 orchids you may not know...
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007

As I understand it, or rather as Joyce Stewart's manual understands it, octomeria is in the subtribe pleurothallidinae, not the laeliinae (both epidendreae of course). I wouldn't have known except that the genus was included in some slides I had to catalogue for the BOC library and I looked it up because I had never heard of it.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Octomeria
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007

My 'Bible', Hawkes book, tells the same story, and I still regard his book as almost a must for orchid buffs.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Observation.
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007

Had a go at trying to take a good photo of my two 'Bargain' Paphs using flash to point out a thing or two.

First, after a bit of manipulation with the light/dark control I managed to get a quite nice photo, at least it is good enough for me.

Second, I have always been a keen 'admirer' of symmetry and when I look at the two horizontal petals of a Paph it makes me wonder why???

Why in fact do they twist in an un-symmetrical fashion, meaning that when you look at them, they do not both twist the same way.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: info on tweeking ( creating a hot house) my greenhouse
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007

I live in Costa Rica (10 deg lat ) at 1500 Met in a cloud forrest ( tricopilia / pleurothallis country ) it is an intermidiate temperatures. summer 20 C min 33C max, winter temps are 13-15C we have a few dips for an hour or so 11 C. general temps in the day are 25C, I have lots of cat, laelia species that are very happy, phals do not like it here, I have a bunch of vanda that are doing ok. cymbidiums are very happy .

My green house is +/- 4000 meters have below plastic roof, with a vent in the highest part ( 6 Met) , it is surrounded with shade cloth to the ground all around. I have elec but I do not think it is needed. My Idea/thoughts on creating a "hot house" is close the top vent and put plastic walls roof to ground. I was going to start with an 8x8 meter area to see how it goes.
I also have another building ( my wood shop storage area that has some plastic panels to let light in it stays nice an toasty. One of my concerns is lack of air circulation. as now I have a nice breeze at all times, the plants really like the fresh air, as I do. but the hot house plants have stange( to me) living conditions.

One of my bigest challanges is light, when it is a sunny day I have lots and lots of light, when the clouds come it is a different story. I have 65% shade cloth on all, but when the clouds come I do not need it at all and when it is a sunny day I'd like a little more, nothing is perfect.

This summer I got a collection of Myrmecophila, Schomburgkia, aerides, catasetums... and other warm/hot climate plants, I need to put them somewhere soon.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 orchids you may not know...
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007

I have Octomeria umbonulata, and as far as I know it,
it is part of the Pleurothallidinae tribe. Mine was
bought about 8 months ago as a mounted plant with
loads of leaves. This is my second flowering so far!
And this time it has also flowered on two new leaves
produced during its time with me... But I have to
agree with you, Geoff, the inflorescences on the new
growths have produced far less flowers than those on
the older leaves, so maybe it is an age thing!

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 orchids you may not know...
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007

Ps − and of course, that explains the repeat flowering on old canes − except
that now they are ramicaules I think − it's not uncommon in pleuro's , but I
can't think of any laelias which do it.

> As I understand it, or rather as Joyce Stewart's manual understands it,
> octomeria is in the subtribe pleurothallidinae, not the laeliinae (both
> epidendreae of course).

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 orchids you may not know...
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007

Thanks for the correction Tina ; a mental aberration , or I turned over 2
pages at once, whatever..

Went to O S show recently,are Societies in decline
it was a lovely sized hall with a small display in middle ,butr what
surprised me there were 5 vendors there and looking at their transport they were
hired ,how could they make it pay,

i dont know how many people came through the door but is was not crowded,do
societies advertise very much localy to bring the public in?it is the general
public that new members come from ,
could not they make them open shows and invite other societies,we try to
travel to as many shows as possible just for the love of orchids and the social
aspect but with the cost of travel i think we will have to miss a few,do any
other subscribers travel to society shows mentioned in B O C guide or the
orchid journal
tom

From: Alex Scott
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: orchid Shows
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007

Hello Tom − our society CANWOS has just had its annual show and this year
combined it with a Crafts Fair at a big nursery. We had 5 societies and
four dealers and had more visitors than at any previous shows so maybe that
is the way to introduce the general public into the joys of orchids. I
must say I think orchid dealers work very hard for their money when you look
at the distance they travel and all the packing and unpacking. Having said
that and playing devils advocate to myself some of the prices were very high
I thought.
Alex

From: Lynda Coles
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] (no subject)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007

I don't know if societies are in decline but there are 38 listed on the BOC site alone, not counting specialist groups and those not affiliated. Some years ago there were less but these seem to have fragmented to the current numbers. There were/are only so many people interested in being members and fragmentation tends to diminish the size of the respective societies. A reletively small number of members has several 'knock-on' effects, amongst them are those related to economy of scale.

The smaller societies have less funds available and, therefore less opportunity to stage large shows and even less opportunity to advertise to bring in the public. Funds at the door will be diminished and they may even have to charge so much to cover the venue costs that curious folk will turn away. A poor show can devastate the bank balance. Even small shows need the tradespeople to be present but, as you say, it is hard to see how they are able to show a profit on the
day or even cover the cost of the fuel used to get there. This can be true of even big shows I am sure, since it must be difficult for them to know what to bring...do you cater for the knowledgeable collectors or bring plants that would appeal to the non-orchid growing people who just want a nice 'throw-away'.? Can be costly if you get it wrong.

There must surely be a lot of small societies that cannot stage a show at all due to financial constraints or just lack of plants in flower at the appropriate time. Perhaps there will come a time when the existing societies will need to join together again, if only to stage a more dynamic and attractive (to the paying public who may be non-orchidists...at least when they go into the show) but then you introduce the ugly aspect of personality clashes that were, maybe, the reason for fragmentation in the first place.

I used to be secretary of an old and long established society which was subject to diminishing
member attendance because of ( in the main) splinter groups. It's nice not to have to travel far to go to meetings and to be able to share your interests in a more 'cosy' type of meeting, but there are disadvantages. In the long run, if there only way that people experience the orchid world is via the fairly standardised plants at the supermarket or garden centre then there can be few new members and trades people will find it even harder to function. Shows will be confined to the large, well funded societies or 'events' such as the conferences of one sort or another which are costly to attend.

It would be interesting to hear from those who are society members (or even the 'officers'), on this subject, or, indeed any trades-people who read this forum.
Anyway...enough from me, lets hear/read some other opinions.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchid Shows.
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Hot House.
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007

Hell man, how hot do you want it??? Just a joke Jim, as we English orchid buffs would give our eye teeth for the sort of set up that you have got.

Now then Jim, can you please tell me exactly what orchids you will put into this Hot House.

bearing in mind that us English growers do grow all types and that some of us have also been to your part of the world.

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: cheating and question
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007

Well,the green eyed monster has weakened my resolve (to not get more orchids
til the two I have bloom) , and I've bought a third orchid. This time I
cheated and bought one that already has buds on it. It's a Phal. Golden
Poeker x Dtps. Ackers Sweetie French Candy. It's supposed to produce med
sized white flowers with large maroon blotches (harlequin). I'll share pics
when/if the buds open. My question is this: I've noticed that the leaves of
the new plant are closer together than the leaves of my other phal.(ie the
"stem" is shorter, though each plant has 5 leaves) I seem to recall reading
that this means the "shorter' plant got more light than the other one. Am I
remembering that correctly? Sue B

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] (no subject)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007

Some OS's do invite too many dealers , which is unfair to them. They run the
risk of being refused next time around − if the dealer is a good
businessman. When Norman Hayward ran Orchid Sundries ( which offered a
tremendous service − far better than the present listings − he would go
once, but I have heard him refuse a repeat visit , saying it was not good
business. Some, but not all orchid nurseries will do the same.

As to advertisements , the problem is that shows are run by whoever will
take the job − and many of them don't have any business expertise at all. In
the latter days of Cotswold Society , the Secretary refused to spend any
money on advertising the show − as "we can't afford it" but then complained
when very few people came through the door.

But in those days − say the 80's and 90's , the Societies in the south
midlands − Cotswold, Swindon, Wilts, Cheltenham, Worcester ,another one in
Buckinghamshire , and sometimes also Solihull too, did join forces, in that
one would run a show , and several of the others would put on displays at
that show − repaying the compliment when it was their turn. It works well,
as long as enough members are willing to join in ; but in Cotswold, after a
few older members with large collections died and their collections were
lost or dispersed, and others were offended by an arrogant and insensitive
President of the Society and refused to join in , we got to the stage where
we had just one member with a large collection and willing to show (myself)
- and I found myself doing half a dozen shows in the Spring within a 2 month
period, entirely on my own, which became a bit wearing.

I got very tired of this amateur nonsense after a couple of successive bad
experiences ; time has passed, so I'll name names.We ( Cotswold Soc. ) had
an appeal from Bristol OS that they were terribly short of exhibits , could
we put on a display ; I spent a day preparing a large car load of my own
plants, went ( some 30 miles ) and put on the display , and after returning
to the car with a load of boxes etc, was barred from returning to the hall
to look at the show, unless I paid for entry . I saw red, refused to pay ,
and went back to the car and collected some boxes and told them I was
collecting my plants now. they let me in under protest , but it left a very
sour taste !

Then an old friend running a show- rather further away in East Sussex ( over
100 miles) , appealed to me in similar terms − I did the same thing , but
when I got there, I was told that they had a lot of late entries from their
own members and they could allot just 4 square feet for what I had brought (
which would have filled 30 sq. feet) . On that occasion I didn't even unpack
or stay to see the show..

I have rather gone off exhibiting at Shows − I'll just enjoy my orchids
myself !

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] (no subject)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007

Maybe some are not even aware that at the larger shows, the traders pay for
the privilege of being present..

However, I should also add that I have known good businessmen who also
happened to be orchid dealers, attend a few large orchid shows and then go
out and buy a new ( large) car..

It is all about the cost and that alone is a non starter for many of the smaller Societies.

And as Alex said, the price ticket on the orchids for sale at a show differ very much for the same plant elsewhere.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Used teabags
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

Has anyone ever tried growing orchids in used teabags?
If so what were the results?
Gordon.

John
no it wasnt CANWOS,im just a hobbyist who tries to go to and support
orchid societies,and marvel at the plants,because amongst the displays
are the gems we all look for and drool over, and people you just have
names youve heard of on here

i just feel sad at attendancies,when just outside are the public ,there
are local radio stations that have avid listeners that wait for the
event to be mentioned for somewhere to go on a sat morning and local
papers that are always looking for articles to fill the paper with and
would be glad to do a presentation and insert vouchers 2 for the price of
one,because when you get in theres the raffle, tombola and the hard
working ladies behind the tea counter which will compensate and add
funds,

one soc this year had over 600 visitors at their open show, and the trader
was over the moon,im not against dutch imports because thats where he
made his money but as well as he can bring the ones we are interested in

i dont think many forumers went ?but they will go to wisley in the
spring and peterborough and dinton so its not a problem of distance,just
think of all the old moaners ,and friends you could meet up with,i know
what im trying to say here but its hard to put across

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Sue's leaves.
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Ecuador.
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

I'm trying to organise my trip to Ecuador for August
2008. This is my 'treat' for finishing University
whilst keeping up with a full time job and two part
time jobs (I think I deserve to treat myself!).

I am planning to do a tour with Ecuagenera for two
weeks, but the tour price is a little more than I
expected, so they have suggested to get some more
people to get the rates down... Anyone interested in
spending two weeks in the 'rainforests' of Ecuador? I
guess it isn't really like a real 'rainforest' when
you have a car/truck to take you to different
locations, a guide to show you around, hot meals
everyday and a nice, comfy bed to sleep on, but hey,
you still get to see the orchids in their natural
environment!

If any one would like to consider sharing this tour
with me, let me know privately, so we can discuss
dates and options.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] info on tweeking ( creating a hot house) my greenhouse
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

Hi Jim,
Go ahead with your idea of the 8 x 8 meter area. What you will need is
a number of fans to get the air moving. Buy the cheapest fans that you
can get, because they don't last long in the humidity. Start with a fan
in each corner and see how it goes.
I have in my hothouse of 8 x 12 meters 8 fans and they are running 24/7.
all year round.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: Tina Stagg
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: CANWOS show
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

Just so that there is no misunderstanding: The recent CANWOS show was a h
uge
success. As Alex has already written, there were 5 societies (and yes, we
do
exhibit at their shows) and 4 traders. Hundreds of people came through th
e
door and the traders and our treasurer were well pleased. The teas alone
made a profit of UKP145.

By the way, as a point of principle I always pay the entrance fee at show
s,
including our own. I regard a couple of pounds as a cheap price to pay fo
r a
good day out.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Shows, observations, comments etc.
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

I have just read what Geoff had to say about 'Shows' and the like, and I could not agree more, especially the piece about when he was asked to help out with his orchids. Have people not got any scruples??? Damned rude that was, especially after asking him to help out. I have experienced similar 'items'.

Tom tells us that the recent Wessex Orchid Society Show had FIVE trade people there. Bloody hell !!!!! To me, that is not common sense. But then I am just a member of that Society, [who only goes to meetings that have something that interests me] but why not just have two trade stands??? I am sure the trade people would think that better, maybe to alternate every year or so.

As Tom has said, or at least how I have interpreted it, it needs a good think about shows.

One: Try to have the show in a place that is easy for the general public to get to, with ample parking.
Two: Don't have too many dealers as they all compete against each other. After all, it's their bred and butter. It would suit them to know in advance who they are 'competing' against.

Three: Find out well in advance what will get the general public through the 'turnstile'.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Societies
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

Geoff's tale is so true of the ''Bean Counter '' mentallity of so many treasurers but manning the door at an orchid show is an eye-opener. At the last Devon O S show at Exmouth one person arrived just before judging with an orchid for displayand later claimed that as an ''Exibitor' she was allowed free entry. This was countered by many fully fledged exibitors that insisted on paying to swell the funds for next year. There were also members of the public that walked aaway because there were no consession tickets. Nowt so queer as folk.
I agree Geoff, that exibitors should have free entry and idiotic bean counters should be slapped down.
Regards from a dry Devon

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Used teabags
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

Phalaenopsis 'Earl Grey'?
A soggy substrate?
Vanilla tea? (Mmmmm)
You try it and tell us!
I'll practise laughing on the other side of my face just in case eh?
(If I ever have the good fortune to see your orchids, Gordon, given the choice I'll have the coffee please)
Cheers and good luck with the project
John

> Has anyone ever tried growing orchids in used teabags?
> If so what were the results?

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

Ah ha! so Dtps means Doritiaenopsis. I've just spent a happy hour looking
that (and doritas)up and will continue. thanks Rocky! Sue B

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

On 27 Oct, in article
,
Sue Brinsko wrote:
> Ah ha! so Dtps means Doritiaenopsis. I've just spent a happy hour looking
> that (and doritas)up and will continue. thanks Rocky!

Just for the sake of accuracy, that would be Doritis. There is a list of
Orchid genera, including hybrids, and their abbreviations at

although oddly it doesn't seem to mention Doritis on its own. Nonetheless
it's an interesting list if you like that sort of thing (which I do!).

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

Maybe I missed earlier portions of this thread ( have had PC problems lately
with a failure somewhere in the UBS trail − maybe motherboard, maybe UBS
driver, maybe one of the peripherals UBS connected − and I'm now up and
running with no UBS usage at all − sorting out the problem is for another
day) − but who would be interested in a Dtps plant ? There are a few species
- I can actually think of one with a few "varieties" − but most of it's
interest is indeed Doritaenopsis − i.e. Dtps x Phalaenopsis...

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CANWOS show
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

If I have travelled any distance, reckoning my costs at 50 pence per mile (
conservative)and if I am not a member of that Society anyway , and if I have
filled car with plants taking a day of my time to prepare them, and a day at
the show ( too far to want to do two double journeys anyway) then I reckon
that I have contributed value to the Society of possibly several hundred
pounds anyway. Moreover I shall probably spend another hundred with the
trade − if they have anything decent and reasonable − thus filling the
traders with joy, and making them want to come back again next year.

To charge me £1 or £5 for admission after all that, is IMHO just a plain
b****y cheek , and inclined to make me say that next year, I'll give it a
miss. Any OS which can't see that, is , again IMHO − plain stupid.

Ps I know I am getting old and awkward ( is obstreperous the right word ?)
- I'm even thinking of getting rid of my collection of orchids, and that is
a serious comment.

> By the way, as a point of principle I always pay the entrance fee at shows,
> including our own.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CANWOS show
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

Hi Tina,
I'm sure there's no misunderstanding!
You confirm what I had already heard.
Thanks
John

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CANWOS show
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

Hi again Tina;
I thought I ought to let you know that you seem to have caught Geoff Hands'
"" condition which is, apparently, intermittent!
As for me, I can cope, (this is simply for your info and certainly not a
complaint!) but I thought you ought to know that what is being received may
not always be exactly what you send.
For example, I am not 100% sure what A3145 is worth in pounds, guineas,
cowries or even Euros!
I can't believe it was £3145 (otherwise we could abandon the orchids and
concentrate on tea!)
£314.5 (£314.50) also sounds OTT and so I imagine we are £31.45 better off
(note the experienced editor's logic there).
See attached!
I dare you to ask Sheila if she can help!
I agree entirely over entrance fees (see also recent Orchid Talk in that
connection, re-shows)
Thanks again for the info
(ps.; the problem may be to do with the use of "Rich Text" or "HTML" or
something. You'll have seen the issue discussed ad nausiem on Orchid talk .
. . . . . .but it still happens.)
John

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

I just went to google with dtps orchid and had the answer in less then one minute. I often use google to finish plant names. Sometimes a common name will show me the proper name in google.

> Ah ha! so Dtps means Doritiaenopsis. I've just spent a happy hour looking
> that (and doritas)up and will continue. thanks Rocky! Sue B

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fertilizer
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

Does anyone know where the various Peters Orchid Fertilizers are available in the UK?
Gordon

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

On 27 Oct, in article
,
Sue Brinsko wrote:
> thanks for the link, Tricia. It does list Doritis as dor. Sue B

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Used teabags
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

John I have never tried it myself but being a Scot!! I just wondered if there was a possibility of it being an alternative to moss. I have heard of the used tea leaves being used for other species of pot plants to keep the mix moist and as a help to feeding.
Gordon.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Shows, observations, comments etc.
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

It does need a show secretary who understands the orchid trade and what they
have to offer . Choosing two at random, or two "we haven't had before" does
not cut the mustard with me. Two offering quite different things − great.
Can be done ! But some are simply − to be brutally frank − not worth
inviting at all . Let them attend the London Show , Peterborough too − where
their generally dismal importation of plants they bought yesterday from one
of the Dutch warehouses − and nothing else ( emphasis on the word does
not matter. Of course there is a place for the Dutch plants, but many
selling them interleaven them with their own seed-raised stuff . Get two
with no interleaving , and it's a dead loss for the cognoscenti.

> Tom tells us that the recent Wessex Orchid Society Show had FIVE trade
> people there. Bloody hell !!!!!

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: [OrchidTalk] Societies and shows
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

All the comments on shows etc. have been interesting. With regard to the
Wessex show, it is my understanding that it was not intended that 5 traders
should attend but there was a glitch in communication. At least one of the
traders was very unhappy.

Roger says:
> why not just have two trade stands??? I am sure the trade people would
> think that better, maybe to alternate every year or so.
Some of them might but I know of one Society whose committee thought that
as they had had the same two traders to their shows since time immemorial
it would be good to have a change, with the intention of alternating every
year. However, the one trader they didn't invite complained to the society
President who insisted they should be invited as they had been mortally
insulted! The organisers were then faced with cramming three traders in a
space where there would normally be two.

> Find out well in advance what will get the general public through the
> 'turnstile'.
Good idea, how is it achieved?

Tom said:
> ijust feel sad at attendancies,when just outside are the public ,there
> are local radio stations that have avid listeners that wait for the
> event to be mentioned for somewhere to go on a sat morning and local
> papers that are always looking for articles to fill the paper with and
> would be glad to do a presentation and insert vouchers 2 for the price of
> one...
I can't speak for other societies but as Hon. Secretary (as opposed to
Prog. Secretary or Mem. Secretary!) of North Hampshire Orchid Society I can
tell you we do that. We also ask people when they arrive how they found out
about the show. Last year only one person had heard the interview on the
local radio that morning. The local paper was not looking for an article -
we had to pay and pay heavily for an advert which they messed up completely
on the date we requested. Fortunately they didn't charge us for the right
one, printed a week later. It was supposed to offer free entrance for a
second person on production of the advert.

In spite of all that, it did bring in more people than any of the other
adverts we did, which included advertising in the OSGB Journal, the Events
Finder on the RHS site and trying to get a mention in various gardening
magazines (we don't have the funds to pay hundreds of pounds on advertising
every year). The banner near the entrance brought in more people overall,
and it was free. Throwing money at it isn't always the answer.

** 2008 North Hampshire Annual ShowFebruary 16th at Viables Craft Centre,
Basingstoke (Details on website shortly) **

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CANWOS show
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

> I thought I ought to let you know that you seem to have caught Geoff
> Hands' "" condition which is, apparently, intermittent! As for me, I
> can cope, (this is simply for your info and certainly not a complaint!)
> but I thought you ought to know that what is being received may not
> always be exactly what you send. For example, I am not 100% sure what
> A3145 is worth in pounds, guineas, cowries or even Euros! I can't
> believe it was £3145 (otherwise we could abandon the orchids and
> concentrate on tea!) £314.5 (£314.50) also sounds OTT and so I imagine we
> are £31.45 better off (note the experienced editor's logic there).

'A3' represents the pound sign (your editor's logic let you down this
time). Tina's email displayed correctly here and the figure was 145 pounds.

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Societies and shows
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

And thanks for the 'one liners' that you add to the bottom of your emails.
Words of wisdom and a laugh to boot

its interesting to get all the replies the more the merrier perhaps with a
bit of luck a show sec might glean an idea or 2 i went to quite a few last year
and year before,2 good ones where at St Albans and sthn counties,
disapointed St Albans didnt have one this yr (time/money)??
but they have one next yr,only one thing spoilt it they had i think 2 or 3
societies there and their own display which made a good show, But it was
cramped into very small hall ,the reason only they know,sthn counties hit it right
for last few yrs and getting better,evidently they only have one trader and
its a diferent one every year plus normaly accesories suplier,this year it
was ratcliffs who do their own accesories and andy the glass man,+the society
sell
their own plants,with over 600 through the door everyone done well ,its an
open show so all the local societies attend which make it worth going i
missed a few this yr bournmouth wraysbury and others so cant comment on them,but
theres another good one on the 18th at crawley so if you have a spare
afternoon??go and have a chat with old friends and they have some little gems for
sale if i dont beat you there first
tom

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: shows
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

hes happy with the way things are going which is very well,could do even
better with 2 shows a year but its too much hard work for the people involved
the one they do takes a year to prepare
what disapointed me is i phoned around few people about going to the last
show i went to but there was no response one even laughed,why are we snug
enough to just go to our own show and not travel,went last year and this year to
portsmouth i know it cant replace newbury but why didnt people go??they tried
even harder this year,and i hope they can succede next year,
peteborough?brilliant.I even try to go to nursery open days dont always buy
but you get some lovely tea and cakes lol
tom

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

Yes, Dtps means Doritaenopsis, but this is history. The Advisory Panel
on Orchid Hybrid Registration has decided to accept the classification
by Eric A. Christenson that includes Doitis and Kingidium within
Phalaenopsis, since this is supported by molecular work. This decision
will mean that Doritaenopsis will become a synonym of Phalaenopsis.
So, you can all start writing new labels.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Societies and shows
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

> And thanks for the 'one liners' that you add to the bottom of your
> emails. Words of wisdom and a laugh to boot

Glad you like them. Pluto (email software) picks them at random from a file
full of them!

When you do things right, people won't be sure that you've done anything at all.

Who oe what is CANWOS ? No prizes for the best translation.
Regards from a saturated Devon.
Dennis

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: the frustrations of getting old and obstreperous
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

Geoff Hands, Obviously I don't know you well, (only from this list and from
your "orchids for beginners book)so I could be way off base......however, I
suspect that if you get rid of your orchid collection you'll soon regret it.
Perhaps you could get rid of (or alter) whatever is making you think/feel
that way without getting rid of your collection??? Sue B

> Ps I know I am getting old and awkward ( is obstreperous the right word
> ?) − I'm even thinking of getting rid of my collection of orchids, and
> that is a serious comment.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] shows
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

Can you give me some more info on the show at Crawley
on the 18th? I haven't heard anything, and I might
have the time to go there.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: New plants.
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

Being a miserable day today, I went down to Hobbs
orchids to get some bark for doing some reppotting as
needed.

First plant, Masdevallia striatella. Beautiful
miniature, and a warmer grower of the masdevallias,
which is perfect for growing in my flat. 3 spikes on
the plant at the moment, so I should be able to take
some pics soon. And if the flowers are as pretty as
the ones on Jay's website... WOW!!!

Second plant, Chelonistele sulphurea var sulphurea. I
think is also a miniature. All I could get off the net
and my books is that it is a relative of Coelogyne,
and that this species has two varietes, one leaved and
two leaved bulbs. But not much info on culture or size
of the plant, so I don't know if I have bought a
flowering sized plant or a young plant. Any help?

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] shows
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

> Can you give me some more info on the show at Crawley
> on the 18th? I haven't heard anything, and I might
> have the time to go there.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Ecuador.
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007

Have you contacted the OSGB. Some of the group that went in 2006 were thinking of returning. Regards

> I'm trying to organise my trip to Ecuador for August
> 2008...
>
> ...If any one would like to consider sharing this tour
> with me, let me know privately, so we can discuss
> dates and options.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: What orchid needs to be "enhanced" ( and why) ?
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007

Wide open questions ( to spark interest ) I'd like to get a discussion going about "would it be nice if". for example Onc sherry baby is a real nice off spring, nice smell an very hardy plant. There are amny many orchids that only have one of these 2 nice features, one of my favorites is tricopilea suavis, beautiful flower, sent is real nice but only last a week. There are many orchids with this similar story. I'd love to hear "you'alls" opinion.

What orchid needs to be "enhanced" ( and why). And enhached with what other parent.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CANWOS show
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

And as to my ps − repeated below − yesterday was a bad day − both my wife
and self had routine check-ups with the doc, and have been called back ,
consultants appointments are being booked, etc etc. General mood -
blackish.....

I can't believe I'm not well , I walked 9 miles over Cranbourne Chase on
Saturday and spent the afternoon getting to grips with problems with my PC ,
but......

Ps repeated − I know I am getting old and awkward ( is obstreperous the
right word ? )
- I'm even thinking of getting rid of my collection of orchids, and that is
a serious comment.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

Sorry − my little boo-boo. I should of course have said, who is interested
in Doritis , not who is interested in Doritaenopsis.

My point is that Doritis consists of only one species − D.pulcherrima ,
which although nice, is hardly likely to set the world on fire.

Whereas Dtps − that species crossed with Phalaenopsis, gives us some of the
nicest Phal type crosses, and certainly some of the most floriferous ones.

ps
i have heard that eastbourne have closed (sad) perhaps Geoff upset them
i know they upset him.that was naughty
i never thought of reckoning pence per mile and a pound entrance i borrow it
off the missus well its a day out for her lol

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sue's leaves.
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

from what I've read so far: Doritis (Dor)is related to Phal, but not
identical: Doritis tends to have a longer blooming period and deeper colored
,though smaller,flowers. Doritis tends to be a "more compact" plant than
Phal. Doritis tends also to be more adaptable than Phal as far as temp and
light requirements.(probably why the grower suggested it to me since I told
him I couldn't get my otherwise healthy looking Phal to bloom).Since they're
related, they can be cross-bred, hence the Doritiaenopsis (Dtps).Of course
the more people cross breed them, the more similar they become til
eventually there won't be any "pure" examples of either. At that point it
won't matter if the names are considered synonyms.Sue B

>
> Ah ha! so Dtps means Doritiaenopsis. I've just spent a happy hour looking
> that (and doritis)up and will continue. thanks Rocky! Sue B

From: Ed Deckert
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Used teabags
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

Would not the tannic acid in the tea be too acidic for orchids? Or is most of the acid leached out when brewing the tea?

> Has anyone ever tried growing orchids in used teabags?
> If so what were the results?

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] shows
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007

Tricia
I think that what Francis, as do I, would like to know is whether it is
likely to be worth travelling 100 miles to see.

> > Can you give me some more info on the show at Crawley
> > on the 18th? I haven't heard anything, and I might
> > have the time to go there.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CANWOS show at a quoted(?) A35 per person per trip (!)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Re Geoff,
Your grumble about show admission payment;
of course you're not obstreporous, just a grumpy ol' wotsit!
Your grouse is about being charged what? There's surely a misunderstanding
somewhere!
I'm not sure what units of small change Tina is referring to but I can
assure that CANWOS doesn't charge 31 or 35 of 'em.
I'm afraid Tina's email has the famous infectious Hands-ian problem of
etc., but I know the visitors are charged a couple o'quid and it is not
imposed for profit making so much as to try to ensure that visitors are
coming out of interest rather than just out of the cold and rain or for
mischief and as a kind of insurance against our society becoming bancrupt if
nobody turns up!. I suspect that if you were offering to drive from
Bournmouth to Cheshire and back with a vanload of orchids of your high
standard, then we might even offer you a cup o'tea if not a rub-down with a
dry towel!

I think, Geoff, that you are imagining yourself as an exhibitor, in which
case you'd be invited rather than charged. I'm sure Tina can speak for
herself but the point she is making is (surely Tina?) that members of the
society hosting the show do not expect preferential treatment at the door at
the expense of others. Maybe this is just a CANWOS ethic but we don't run
the show to make a profit although after a period of anxiety about possible
attendance numbers, it is gratifying when we sometimes do! After all. paying
up-front for the hire of a venue is a risky business for most societies with
limited funds.

I reckon we are nowhere near the racket of antiques fairs or other
exhibitions where there is a charge to enter what amounts to a shop!
As for our teas profit of "3DA3145" I am still trying to work out the
translation but I'll bet it's nearer £30 (thirty pounds) than £3145 (three
thousand, one hundred and forty five)!

However Geoff, before giving up your orchids let's get the facts sorted out.
(And if it helps to advertise our goodwill to all men (especially with your
orchidaceous skills), I can assure you that if you do throw in the towel I
will empty your orchid house for you completely free of any charge. Owzat?

Maybe, in the next few days, we can sort out usual figures for who pays what
for what in a typical amateur society O-Show eh? Even membership of CANWOS
doesn't cost your quoted figures Geoff!

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: CANWOS modestly translated
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Hi Dennis,
We'd send a personal messenger to Devon but we 'can't get th'orses these days so an email will have to do.
Cheshire And North Wales Orchid Society (hence CANWOS) is an OS with members not only from N.Wales and Cheshire but from districts as far away as Thurso, Shrewsbury, Stoke, Stockport, Liverpool, Manchester, the Wirral, Anglesey and the Pennines (not to mention the occasional French and Thailand residents). We are a registered charity
We have well over a hundred members, produce a sixteen -page A5 Newsletter every month (except December) and have regular monthly meetings on the last Friday in each month (except December − but two in January). We hold an annual show every year in the autumn..

We would never boast our status and prefer others to do that. Most societies have qualities that make comparisons with others difficult or irrelevant. However, we have a fair number of members from the North Of England OS and that should be known to all (I believe the longest established in the country). They seem to think we are worth joining. We think our meetings are complementary to NOE'OS's in some respects and although we share some territory we are on good terms .We have also joined with neighbouring societies for shows; inviting them to ours and being invited to theirs.These include East Midlands, Harrogate, Worcester, Sheffield and NOE, Socs (apologies to any I can't think of just now).

Most months we have a plant table discussion. We have growers, some of whom are of a very high standard and we also cater for raw beginners. Some of us are interested in species, some in hybrids and we don't ridicule collectors of B&Q and Asda plants! We try to arrange a programme of outside speakers, internal expertise demos and talks, a members' evening and an annual social evening. We have occasional outings to locations of orchidaceous interest. At least one of our members has an international specialist reputation and has a National Collection. We work in association with Chester Zoological Gardens who also have a creditable orchid collection.

A few members are nationally recognised orchid judges. We are fortunate in having an pretty extensive orchhid library for members with books for loan as well as reference.

We take some pride in the fact that we have been able to offer modest support to a South American conservation estate and we have helped a university to delay closure of an orchid house

You can find more at our website ; http://www.canwos.org/ (but if you find a site offering pharmaceuticals to do wondrous things to your body parts then you have mistyped and discovered a former site of ours that was hijacked when we were once changing provider!!!! Not our source of income . . honest!).

Not unlike Devon, we have our fair share of Celestial water in Cheshire and Wales but I think we must be better than you Devonians at using it to make our counties greener rather than saturated!.

If ever you are on our patch with a last-Friday-in-the-month evening to kill, drop me an email and we'll welcome you to our meeting at Chester! You won't need wellies although a brolly could be useful.. Oh, and Geoff, if you're reading this, well sell you a coffee and biccy for twentyfive pee (we'll accept five pee down and four interest-free weekly payments if you prefer! )

I edit the Newsletter and would welcome articles or 'items' from other societies if you have 'em spare! (Geoff?). Currently, I am trying to get members (or anyone else!) to explain how they caught orchid mania.

From: epric@tiscali.nl
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Show organisers: contact us!
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

We know that some of the show organisers are member of this list, we
would gladly participate in your event if we have time. We are from the
Netherlands, but still a lot of time in the UK. For example we do
participate at Peterborough.

Here is the link to our webpage to see a little bit more. http://www.epric.org/index.php?cid15
The webpage is still in progress.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: CANWOS
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

I'm just waiting for someone , from say Cheshire or North Wales for example, to say "what or where is Devon"...

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] the frustrations of getting old and obstreperous
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

I don't suffer from depression − not in the clinical sense − but I do
occasionally have a bad day, and recently there have been more than one of
those.

> Geoff Hands, Obviously I don't know you well, (only from this list and from
> your "orchids for beginners book)so I could be way off base......however, I
> suspect that if you get rid of your orchid collection you'll soon regret it.
> Perhaps you could get rid of (or alter) whatever is making you think/feel
> that way without getting rid of your collection??? Sue B

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] shows
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Hi Francis
if you google multimap and type in RH11 7AJ it will show exactly where
it is about 100yds off A23
it was good to meet you at croyden hope you enjoyed it,do you know when
Laurence hobbs next open
day is??
tom

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] shows
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Diacrium bicornutum
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

I purchased this plant recently and found out later that it is an ant plant. Is it possible to grow it without ants? Will that affect its health?

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_5878b.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_5877b.jpg

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: CANWOS modestly translated
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Thanks John. It was one of those rhetorical questions as many members of this list are not in the UK and would have no idea of CANWOS. I also thought that we may get some humourous responses.
The sun has returned to Devon. Dennis

> Hi Dennis, We'd send a personal messenger to Devon but we 'can't get
> th'orses these days so an email will have to do.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CANWOS
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Come come Geoff,
anyone knows that Devon is the bit that glues Cornwall to the reat of us.
It is also the home of Burnham Orchids . . isn't it?
John

> I'm just waiting for someone , from say Cheshire or North Wales for
> example, to say "what or where is Devon"...

John CANWOS sounds good might try to make it in the autumn sounds like a lot
of work for the commitee but well worth it perhaps its the way to go for all
societies to merge for area shows,and then more people might travel
i know avid football fans travel from sth up to the north to watch 90mins
game
and they do that to all away games ,not for me though, only for orchid
show, thanks for info might
see you in the autumn dont know what date its not in boc diary

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CANWOS show at a quoted(?) A35 per person per trip (!)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

This is exactly the point; I was invited as a non-member − and put on a
non-competitive display − I forget the details, but a 10 foot length of wall
with a fairly dense display of orchids and a few foliage plants to cover
the base was what I usually did in those days- say 2002 ?
This was the same size or bigger than most of the invited trade stands − and
OK I'm a miserable old b****r but to be asked to pay even £2 offended me.
The trade often provided less display, did not provide anything else, and
(one assumes) made enough dosh to pay their expenses and the rent too...
They were not asked to pay − why should I be ?

And no, sorry to disagree, but members should get in free − exhibitors or
not.

Most members will already have contributed somewhere or the other − having
arms twisted to supply bottles of wine for the raffle − making cakes etc -
selling tickets and/or raffle tickets in advance , or just being there on
the door to take money or whatever − all given/done freely .

But put my hand in my pocket for a few coins on the day? No way − it's a
matter of principle − ethics, morals, call it what you will.

Those are my terms; if the club don't like them, then they will cut off
their noses to spite their faces, ' cos I won't go at all, no exhibit, no
cakes, no ale, no buys from the visiting trade − so there (goes and sits in
corner in huff)...

And by the way when I was one of a small committee running a large two day
show − filling the great hall of Aston University ( and now I'm going back
to mediaeval times of course − at least the 60's or 70s)yes with Lord Sieff
( who owned Marks and Spencers in those days) filling one end wall with a 50
foot display of cattleyas , and McBeans in their grand days filling the
opposite end wall etc etc., all the exhibitors got a free breakfast , and I
don't mean a stale bun and a cup of Nescafe ; the trade people ( and Lord
Sieff's gardeners too , got put up free ( I used to have the Charlesworth
chap − Alan Greatwood , and if I did get offered some seedlings as a thank
you, I had an invoice and paid for them ( I admit that I got ones which
were not on general sale ).

To do all that, the Show has to be planned as a business − advertised,
tickets sold, publicity organised ( I was even on Midlands TV for three
minutes in the local news one year − I felt a complete pratt being asked
stupid questions by a presenter, who kept stopping the recording because he
thought his nose was shiny − but I think we sold 5000 tickets at 25p each
that year... ( we used to give cash prizes in the competitive classes − £5
for a first... but orchids in flower cost a similar price to today − £15 for
an Odont crispum hybrid with 6 flowers on was the first plant in flower
which I ever bought − but e.g. a postman made £8 per week at the time.

However, you can have a committee of MBAs planning the show, but you won't
get anywhere without guys with plants − you have to cosset them and look
after them as the number 1 priority. If you don't − then I am not surprised
to hear the show closed, the Society closed etc etc...

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: CANWOS modestly translated
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

If I do ( send you anything for the news-letter ) it would of course be free
- I don't get paid even by Orchid Review ( no one does, nowadays − time was
when you sent a few extra copies , but not even that now ). And all that is
perfectly OK with me, and perfectly right too..

But if I came to give you a talk as I have on two if not three times over
the past many years I would be offended if asked to pay for tea , and I
would not charge any fee for my talk − and probably accept the bare cost of
the petrol as expenses ( no , I'm not offering to come a fourth time − I've
given up and its too far from the South Coast to the far north..)

> I edit the Newsletter and would welcome articles or 'items' from other
> societies if you have 'em spare! (Geoff?). Currently, I am trying to get
> members (or anyone else!) to explain how they caught orchid mania.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Diacrium bicornutum
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

All though it can be a home for ants it grows very well with out them. That is, at least here in south Florida.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Wouldn't it be nice if !!!
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

If that wonderful orchid Bifrenaria Harrisoniae, the one with the lovely coloured flowers that have such a nice lip, has such nice firm sepals and petals and has such a wonderful fragrance..........could have been displayed on a flower spike some 12 inches/30 centimetres or so long with perhaps eight or more flowers on it.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Diacrium bicornutum
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] the frustrations of getting old and obstreperous
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

After growing orchids for over 60 years I have large number of duplicates. Many are old awards that are hard to find and the Chinese have not cloned them. I don't plan a fire sale. Most visitors to my garden go home with a plant or two, the more knowledgeable that better the plants. Geoff you even have a plant or two from my garden. Now I'm looking for growers that have the ability to be generous and at least 20 years younger then me. Some of my best plants were given to me by older friends. At this point at least 70% of my collection was given to me. I am looking for people that will keep the plants and pass them down as need be. I am also doing this with my Ae Ae banana plants, check here and see what I'm doing.

I am aware that these people may end up liking me more then is necessary. I am looking for people that will like the orchids more then me.

No, I am not going to dispose of the entire collection just make it more manageable. Sure I still except an orchid from friends or buy one. I tell my wife that I plan to be here for a long time and that new seedling will bloom very well for me. When you quit buying plants it's a sign of depression.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What orchid needs to be "enhanced" ( and why) ?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

I would like to see my Sobralias have a flower that lasts at least a full day and better yet a few days. The ones that last for a few days will not grow in our heat.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: CANWOS modestly translated
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Hi Geoff,
I was (I hope it obvious) joking when I suggested we'd 'do' you a coffee and biccy on the never.
We are incredibly rich up here and quite often treat speakers to the odd 25p worth of sustenance

More seriously; I understand your reluctance to avoid a journey so far north and, although you'd be more than welscome I wouldn't wish to put you in a position of refusal.

If you ever feel like a written offering for the Newsletter, we'd be flattered and pleased.

Maybe there are others in OT who have articles they could offer to a wider audience?????

I'm glad you recognise that Chester is in the "far north". Nottalottapeople know that!

> If I do ( send you anything for the news-letter ) it would of course be
> free − I don't get paid even by Orchid Review ( no one does, nowadays -
> time was when you sent a few extra copies , but not even that now ). And
> all that is perfectly OK with me, and perfectly right too..
>
> But if I came to give you a talk as I have on two if not three times
> over the past many years I would be offended if asked to pay for tea ,
> and I would not charge any fee for my talk − and probably accept the
> bare cost of the petrol as expenses ( no , I'm not offering to come a
> fourth time − I've given up and its too far from the South Coast to the
> far north..)
>
> Morals and ethics and what feels right are funny things − like people.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CANWOS show at a quoted(?) A35 per person per trip (!)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Hi Geoff,
I am still a little confused. I don't think we charge you for what you
describe.
(wish I could charge you a quid per "" though!
John

This is exactly the point; I was invited as a non-member − and put on a
non-competitive display − I forget the details, but a 10 foot length of
wall with a fairly dense display of orchids and a few foliage plants to
cover the base was what I usually did in those days- say 2002 ? This was
the same size or bigger than most of the invited trade stands − and OK
I'm a miserable old b****r but to be asked to pay even UKP2 offended me.
The trade often provided less display, did not provide anything else, and
(one assumes) made enough dosh to pay their expenses and the rent too...
They were not asked to pay − why should I be ?

And no, sorry to disagree, but members should get in free − exhibitors or
not.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Tea bags, used.
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Used tea bags, yuk ! I would give that idea a definite thumbs down, a non starter.

No, I can see no advantage of using used tea bags whatsoever. Disadvantages, yes.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Chilonestele sulphurea
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

1. You said that you went to 'Hobbs Orchids'..........my guess is that you mean Laurence Hobbs Orchids, or is there a new orchid supplier in your area?

2. Chilonestele sulphurea. Do you have the book, 'The Manual Of Cultivated Orchid Species' by Bechtel/Cribb/Launert. ??

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Diacrium.
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

As 'Tropic' said, no problem with ants, but I did find out to my loss one problem with this orchid.

As it has hollow bulbs, there is not much 'ooomph' in the bulb, so I just hope that your plant has a good set of roots.

My problem was that there was not enough 'oomph' to satisfy any new growth that emerged..........not that any did.

If you would like to read a little more on Doritis and its use in hybridising, and also about other orchids found in that region, then why not buy a book called:

Quite a few of them for sale via the Internet, English Book dealers.....about £14.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fans in greenhouses.
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

I must say that we all must be very surprised now and then when our members come up with the size of either there greenhouse, or growing area.

Peter Hieke has just told us that his hothouse measures about 24 feet by 36 feet.....Christ! If only.........

So what am I getting at..........I am getting at the most remarkable, diverse ways in which we all grow our plants and still come up trumps.

My greenhouse is 8 foot by twelve foot, and I just don't have any fans in it whatsoever. Just the electric heater under the bench.

So, let's hear from a few of you, because I am sure that it will not only make good reading, but will enhance our knowledge.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: CANWOS modestly translated
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Thanks Dennis,
Nothin' like a bit o' rhetoric.
Apply the factor 18 liberally.
You are nearer the tropics than we northerners.
John

> Thanks John. It was one of those rhetorical questions as many members of
> this list are not in the UK and would have no idea of CANWOS. I also
> thought that we may get some humourous responses.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] wouldn't it be nice if ?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Hi Jim,
Nice idea but a little problem; some of us really don't care if a flower is microscopic or if it lasts but a day or two(Stanhopeas?).
How can an orchid be bland?
In my opinion no orchids are 'better' enhanced although I'm not against folk 'mucking about' with them if it makes them enjoy the hobby and, maybe, learn a bit more about them.
I try to encourage members of 'my' own society to explain how they got into orchids. I often wonder how some of us in OT did. There must be some interesting/surprising/reasons.
John

> ...In your opnion, oryour wouldn't it be nice if list: What orchid needs
> to be "enhanced" ( and why). And for the gurus enhached with what other
> parent.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] shows
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

CANWOS usually holds it annual show in October and I don't think there are any moves afoot to change that. This year it was 20 Oct, last year it was the last Saturday in October. Keep in touch.
John

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Past Times
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Geoff, I sympathise with your remenicences of old Orchid Shows but at least you saw them. As my son says when I talk of Mike Hawthorn, Stirling Moss, May or Crookes in motor racing. We had the enjoyment before the Bean Counters moved in and converted everything to money. Don't let them make you give in.
Remember ''OLD AGE IS NOT FOR CISSIES''
Yesterday i was out for a walk with a mate and as we sat down for a rest I said ''I'm full of aches and pains. How about you''
I'm fine he said − Like a new baby -No Hair − No teeth − and I think I've just wet my pants !
Regards from yhe glue that holds Cornwall to England. Dennis

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] the frustrations of getting old and obstreperous
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

For your sake,I'm sorry to hear that.Again, I don't know you well enough to
know what may be causing those bad days or what I might say that would
help. Of course we all do have them from time to time so you must reassure
yourself that you're "normal" in this regard. I myself find that I don't
enjoy being "older' quite as much as I enjoyed being 'younger", so when I
hear someone lament that they're getting 'old and obstreperous" I guess I
can identify with that. :-) As Red Green (Canadian comedian... do you see
him there..on TV?) would say.."Keep your stick on the ice. We're all in this
together". Sue B

On 10/29/07, Geoff Hands wrote:
>
> I don't suffer from depression , not in the clinical sense , but I do
> occasionally have a bad day, and recently there have been more than one of
> those.

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Diacrium bicornutum
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

> All though it can be a home for ants it grows very well with out them.
> That is, at least here in south Florida.

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Diacrium bicornutum
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Diacrium.
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

My plant has a new growth about 5cm high. There are a few roots trailing out of the net pot. I'll have a better look tonight.

> Hi Esther,
>
> As 'Tropic' said, no problem with ants, but I
> did find out to my loss one problem with this orchid.
>
> As it has hollow bulbs, there is not much
> 'ooomph' in the bulb, so I just hope that your plant has a good set of
> roots.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Chilonestele sulphurea
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

Yes, I do mean Laurence, of course! But I thought that
the nursery was actually called Hobbs Orchids.

I have that book, but haven't seen the picture in
there... Maybe I looked to fast and missed it?

It is not the pic I am after, is more information on
culture and plant description, though.

> Hi there Francis,
>
> Two questions for you:
>
> 1. You said that you went to 'Hobbs
> Orchids'..........my guess is that you mean Laurence
> Hobbs Orchids, or is there a new orchid supplier in
> your area?
>
> 2. Chilonestele sulphurea. Do you have the book,
> 'The Manual Of Cultivated Orchid Species' by
> Bechtel/Cribb/Launert. ??
>
> If not then I can scan a picture of it for you, and
> also the information on it.
>
> Regards, Rocky.

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Past Times
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

We are all sorry to hear that you are feeling poorly. Please do buck up and get over it.

Your input and wisdom on this forum is something that all of us treasure and hope will continue for many years.

Please remember this...getting old, sad though it is, is heaps better than the alternative.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] New plants.
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007

Chelonistele sulphurea is not a miniature. Just a small sized plant. Easy
growing, multiplies and produces many flowers on small plants. Grows at any
condition between intermediate and hot. I have not tried to grow it cold.
Enjoy it.
Regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

> Second plant, Chelonistele sulphurea var sulphurea. I
> think is also a miniature. All I could get off the net
> and my books is that it is a relative of Coelogyne,
> and that this species has two varietes, one leaved and
> two leaved bulbs. But not much info on culture or size
> of the plant, so I don't know if I have bought a
> flowering sized plant or a young plant. Any help?

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] the frustrations of getting old and obstreperous
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

> ...Now I'm looking for growers that have the ability to be generous and
> at least 20 years younger then me. Some of my best plants were given to
> me by older friends. At this point at least 70% of my collection was
> given to me. I am looking for people that will keep the plants and pass
> them down as need be.

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fans in greenhouses.
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

My hothouse is 6mtrs X 4mtrs attached to the back to the house facing north. (I am in the southern hemisphere) I have two oscillating fans running 24/7 plus a small fan heater on a thermostat set to come on at 15C. (Sorry about the metric measures but that's what we use here. It's the law!!)

> I must say that we all must be very surprised now and then when our
> members come up with the size of either there greenhouse, or growing
> area...

> ...My greenhouse is 8 foot by twelve foot, and I just don't have any
> fans in it whatsoever. Just the electric heater under the bench.

> So, let's hear from a few of you, because I am sure that it will not
> only make good reading, but will enhance our knowledge.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk]getting old and obstreperous − OT's ol'folks'ome
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

What a cheerful lot we are!
When folk's tell me I can't take 'it' with me I usually respond by telling 'em that I'm not planning on going.
I'm sure my wife will grow her orchids when we have to put 'em on wheels and pull them in for servicing!
As for the demise phenomenon, does anyone remember Bernard Miles in the pre-Mermaid days when he did stage acts as an old rustic ranconteur? (1940-50s?) Referring to an old codger (about our age I guess) he quoted;" I shan't doie" ee sez, an' ee didn't; they went into 'im one mornin' and ee jus' wasn't there! Ah those were the days.
But orchids were out of financial reach.
Just to keep this on topic (orchids was it?) has anyone else read, to the bottom of the page, the text at;

Just the thing to put on the menu when you have stuffy guests! It went in our October Newsletter!

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: a first flowering for me
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

Some of you may have it − Saccolabium quisumbingii − since Janet (Plested ) seed raised it and has been selling seedlings for a couple of years . I have two − this is the smaller plant , with 14 flowers and the spike still extending. The larger plant has two spikes, but no buds yet.
The pic does not do it justice − I took it hurriedly ( trying to do something to save my sanity in an interval of sorting out problems with my pc). The flowers are actually pale primrose with a dark violet blotch on the lip.
A lovely musky scent , but not one which exactly fills the greenhouse, you need to be less than an inch away to get it, I think...

Not one for those who like large gross ugly things... I won't spell out what I might have in mind − jokes don't always translate well via cyberspace I find. Lets just say that on the 12 inch screen of my laptop which I'm currently using , the flowers appear more than life-size. In fact it's in a 2 inch pot.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Chilonestele sulphurea
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

Francis, Try under Ch-E-lon-I-stele. It is grown like a Ceologyne -cool to intermediate and wet while the bulb is growing. Regards Dennis

> It is not the pic I am after, is more information on
> culture and plant description, though.

From: Beccy Holmes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] wouldn't it be nice if ?
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

> ...I try to encourage members of 'my' own society to explain how they got
> into orchids. I often wonder how some of us in OT did. There must be some
> interesting/surprising/reasons.

From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: growing in stones
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

Hello Rocky − I have planted a catt. Irene Holguin in broken up pots and pebbles, been in a couple of weeks and not dead yet! What other species do you grow in stones?
And BTW I havent got a greenhouse at all!
Regards
Alex Scott

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Wouldn't it be nice if !!!
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

Bifrenaria Hybrids The late Jack King, thought that Bifrenaria
harrisoniae also "suffered from Duck's disease". I grew a few clones of
harrisoniae along with my award winning alba clone. Some had two flowers per
spike and the alba seemed to have a longer flower stem, but still fairly
short.

What Jack did was to cross his harrisoniae's with Stenocoryne (spelling?)
species (now Bifrenaria) , which had longer multi (but smaller flowers)
flower spikes. He produced the first registered Bifrenaria cross, Bifrenaria
Haslemere. Haslemere was the town Jack lived in. The cross produced a
multi-spiked, multi flowered (orange flowers), plant, but the spikes were
pendant. I grew a flask to flowering size and the cross produced very
similar plants and flowers, closer to the Stenocoryne sp. (auria fulva) or
something like it. He back-crossed it onto harrisoniae but then Jack died
and the Westmore's took over his crosses and flowered the back-cross and
called it Bifrenaria Jack King. I know no details of the flowers. I'll have
to phone them to see what was produced.

I will have to try and find some slides of the harrisoniae I imported from
Alvim Siedel, in Brazil. It was very dark compared to the normal type you
see.

On the fan front , I always had a large oscillating fan going 24/7 with a
load of smaller second-hand computer fans which were blowing on the plants
that needed that bit extra of air movement, like my Dendrobium cuthbertsonii
clones, which had , pink, red, orange, yellow and purple/white flowers.
Never got around to getting a white one. I have the pleasure of being the
first person to gain an RHS award for my common pink clone. Had about 50
flowers , on a plant growing on a piece of tree-fern approx. 4" square. It
got a mention in the Oxyglossum paper from the Royal Botanic Gardens ,
Edinburgh. Grew it from a single seedling which I bought from Dick Warren
(who else ,in the late 80's).

> If that wonderful orchid Bifrenaria Harrisoniae, the one with the lovely
> coloured flowers that have such a nice lip, has such nice firm sepals and
> petals and has such a wonderful fragrance..........could have been displayed
> on a flower spike some 12 inches/30 centimetres or so long with perhaps
> eight or more flowers on it.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: wouldn't it be nice if ?
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007

John,
Yes all ochids are fine the way they are, the title wouldn't it be nice was trying to suggest, that for example us with intermidiate Ghouse would like to grow and NOT kill some of the hothouse orchids say vandas. Or people in the dryer climates might want to be able to grow minitures, which grow like weeds for me here but my nieghbors a few miles a way ( in a different climate can not grow them at all ). Or maybe .... a peach Cat Dowiana.... that blooms 3 times a year .....

>Hi Jim,
>Nice idea but a little problem; some of us really don't care if a flower is
>microscopic or if it lasts but a day or two(Stanhopeas?).
>How can an orchid be bland?
>In my opinion no orchids are 'better' enhanced although I'm not against
>folk 'mucking about' with them if it makes them enjoy the hobby and, maybe,
>>learn a bit more about them. I try to encourage members of
>'my' own society to explain how they got
>into orchids. I often wonder how some of us in OT did. There must be some
>interesting/surprising/reasons.
>John

Hi Folks,
I am hoping that someone out in the big wide world of experts can help me.
I have a large number of Stanhopeas in my collection and have one which I
bought as a small seedling or plant some years ago which is labelled
Stan.frankensteaniana. I have flowered it but am unable to find a photo and
when I went to check the spelling I am unable to find any information at
all. No name no info.
As I have a seed pod which has ripened and I was about to flask it when I
decided to check the spelling.
Does anyone have any idea at all as to what it could be?
When it flowers again in a couple of months I will ensure that there is a
photo of it. Even if I have to call it #*^*#?
Max.

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Wouldn't it be nice if !!!
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007

I enclose 2 pictures, one of a closeup of my alba Bif. harrisoniae "Susan"
CCC-AM/RHS & an old slide of the dark clone of harrisoniae I imported from
Alvim Siedel, Brazil. Fro what I remember it was a "free" plant, thrown in.
Better and cheaper than from Floralia.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
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September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2007 Archived Messages

22—31 October