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Can anyone help with address of Wessex OS show Portchester
post code would do
the contact in O Journal returns unknown e/m address
tom

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Provado and the dreaded woodlice.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

On the subject of Provado for killing woodlice, earwigs and other beasties that gnaw at the roots etc, can I just say that the normal plastic one litre spray bottles of Provado have just about eliminated any mealy bug and scale insects from my greenhouse.....to such an extent that I cannot find any plant with the said beasties on it to show anyone what they look like, and how to deal with them.

It was just this last week that I was using the Provado Vine Weevil Killer that I noticed it had made short work of the earwigs and the woodlice.

I had made up a large bucket of the mix and dunked all of our plants that were in pots that were going to be kept in a cold greenhouse for the winter months. The morning after, I noticed the effect on any creepy crawly beasties.

So, I dunked all of my orchids, and the next morning I was pleased to see the result.

Is the liquid concentrate in a plastic container named Provado Vine Weevil Killer any different than the liquid in Provado Insect Killer?

I am not that worried about the answer, as I will now just buy the Vine Weevil Killer and mix up one litre as per the said instructions/ratio and use that for all of my orchid greenhouse problems..........which get fewer all the time.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: portchester
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

On 15 Oct, in article ,
wrote:
> Can anyone help with address of Wessex OS show Portchester

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] portchester
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] The Moustache and Copyright.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

Roger,
I'm no copyright expert but there are some very contentious areas defying all logic. The Ordnance Survey, for example, may take you to task if you so much as use one of their maps to make a hand drawn sketch map without permission! I used to teach interpretation of geological maps and used colour transparencies projected onto a black board (Oh yes you can!) which could then be chalk annotated. I changed to using USGS geology maps precisely because in the US they have the priciple that if the taxpayer supports the publication then the data is in the public domain whereas, had I continued my practice, I (my University) would have been charged more than the cost of the map per square inch copied. The irony was that my activity sold more maps for the OS than any other activity I can think of!

However, what struck me as odd about Tina's 19thC illustration is that surely, (surely?) such an old image can't now be copyright? Or perhaps its later re-publication confers a copyright renewal.

There is another related issue that could affect plant enthusiasts; I have occasionally bought plants (not necessarily hybrids) that have been selected and bred for some particular characteristic. In the fine print on the label has been the assertion that the plant may not be propagated by the purchaser. Can this really be enforced in law? Can natural aggregations of genes really be hijacked in this way? It's all reminiscent of the chip shop owner, a Mr McDonald, who was challenged in court by another McDonald(s) for using his own name for his business. I forget the outcome.

I once had, on my desk, the lid from the box of the product of a well-known tool manufacturer. On it was printed boldly in block letters; 'Stanley Rules', but they unfortunately missed off the 'OK'. I don't think they could do much about that!

> Tony, as to Copyright law, I am sure Geoff will put us right, but as most
> books say and as you have shown the wording, it is in my view O.K. as
> long as it is used for the benefit of like people and that it is used not
> to gain money etc.

From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Provado and the dreaded woodlice.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

Hello Rocky − there are differences in the various Provado products. Looking at the tiny writing Provado Vine Weevil killer contains thiacloprid. The drench that I use, Provado UltimateBug Killer Concentrate which is an emulsion for drenching pots contains imidacloprid. Both of these I have found clean up mealy bug and scale. Particularly good against scale insects as they often lurk in the roots and a top spray doesnt get them. Neither of these claim to be effective against red spider mite which, growing orchids as house plants is my big enemy.

However Provado Ultimate Bug Killer as an aerosol contains imidacloprid and methiocarb which I have found effective against red spider mite so I presume its the methiocarb that makes the difference.

What it boils down to is that all the Provado drenches are effective against most insect pests and is systemic for 4 weeks. If you have red spider mite blast them with the aerosol as well.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Copyright and Provado.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

John, I really did like your piece and it sure made me, and I expect many of us smile, as no doubt we have all either been down that track or heard about it. It does of course have no shred of good old common sense in it.

Alex, I had a reply from 'Bayer' who make Provado, and the lady gave me a nice answer to some of my questions.

I regards all of their 'Bug Slayers' as very good products, and I am working on which one that I think is best for all of our problems.

The reason why I do not buy the aerosol is that 1. I consider it too costly, and 2. That it most probably uses either Propane or Butane gas as the propellant. [Ex Esso employee]

I am hoping that the 'Vine Weevil Killer' which I see kills woodlice and earwigs, and no doubt any other creepy crawlies will be the product that I will be using in the future.

As to the dreaded Red/Orange spider mite, I have been spraying a couple of plants with the normal Bug Killer, and I have now been using the Vine Weevil Killer on them.

I will report my findings later..........viewed through a Jeweller's eyeglass of course.

On the subject of Red Spider Mite, may I please tell everybody to be on a careful watch for the little blighters all the time. A very good elderly friend of mine who is one of the old gardeners of many years ago, has in the past given me various garden/greenhouse plants, some of them quite unusual.

Last week he came over and dropped of four or five plants, and among them was a plant named. Impatiens Niamniamense 'The Congo Cockatoo'. With also, three large cuttings. All of the leaves were infested with spider mite.

Needless to say, it has a special position out of the way of other plants out in the garden and has been sprayed a couple of times already.

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] OT/ Copyright.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

I don't know, John. I've had a similar question here in the US recently.
I've been noticing that knitting patterns are now starting to carry a note
saying that any garment or other item made by using the pattern instructions
cannot be sold. Do the pattern publishers have that right? One wouldn't
think so. I don't know if that assertion or the "no plant propagation'
assertion would hold up in court or if the people making these statements
just hope others will believe that it would and will not take the trouble to
challenge it. Sue B

On 10/15/07, John Stanley wrote:
>
> Roger,
> I'm no copyright expert but there are some very contentious areas defying
> all logic.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Provado and the dreaded woodlice.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

We don't have Provado in Florida, but we do have Premise that kills termites. Premise is not sold to the home gardener. But I know that it works very well for killing most all of the critters that you would find in a greenhouse. Provado and Premise are the same product but in different strengths. Google Bayer, Premise or Provado and you can read for the rest of the day. I did and I found in very interesting.

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] The Moustache and Copyright.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

John Stanley makes some very good points and thanks for your input. Obviously Rentoul copied the picture from a much older publication but I am not sure about the re-publication issue. Sounds a bit far fetched to me.

I spent some time doing on line research into Australian copyright law and ended up much as Rocky did.

I think the 'out' for me is the bit about fair dealing for the purposes of private study or research. I'm not trying to sell somebody else's work. I'm not, in fact, selling anything, unlike Sue's posting re the knitting patterns which were being sold.

Geoff's text belongs to Geoff and is being used with his permission to broaden our understanding of some of the early orchid breeders & growers. Study? Research? Seems that way to me.

And for Rocky, I live in Perth Western Australia, The home of the WA Orchid Spectacular & Conference 2008.
http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eemntee/WAOS.html

From: John J. Rupp
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Provado
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007

In the USA the Bayer company doesn't market any Provado labeled
insecticide for the home non-commercial user. There is Provado product
available only to commercial users, and the active ingredient is
imidachloprid. I have been using the ready to use Bayer Advanced Garden
Rose & Flower Insect Killer with active ingredients of Cyfluthrin 0.003%
and Imidacloprid 0.012%. As you did, I found a concentrate, Bayer
Advanced Tree & Shrub Insect Control with the only active ingredient of
Imidacloprid 1.47%, which I dilute to the same concentration of the
ready to use stuff.

Now on the the UK. I wanted to compare what I have used with what you
are using, so I did an internet search on the names you provided.
Unfortunately, I could not find exact matches. You said the ready to
mix product was "Provado Insect Killer" The closest I could find to
this was 'Provado Ultimate Bug Killer' which comes in hand sprayer and
aerosol. Interestingly the active ingredients are slightly different −
the hand sprayer product has only Thiacloprid, while the aerosol product
has Imidacloprid and Methiocarb. To complicate the issue 'Provado
Ultimate Bug Killer Concentrate' which has only Imidacloprid.

I did find a Bayer product similar to your "Provado Vine Weevil Killer"
called "Provado Vine Weevil Killer 2" with the only active ingredient of
Thiacloprid.

Are these the products you are actually using? Provado Ultimate Bug
Killer and Provado Vine Weevil Killer 2

I could not find any label information abut these products. Can you
give the percent of active ingredients? It appears that the term
"Provado" does not always mean the same active ingredient.
Interesting. Also, from what I can find, there are no insecticides in
the USA that contain Thiacloprid.

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] The Moustache and Copyright.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007

> There is another related issue that could affect plant enthusiasts;
> I have occasionally bought plants (not necessarily hybrids) that
> have been selected and bred for some particular characteristic. In
> the fine print on the label has been the assertion that the plant
> may not be propagated by the purchaser. Can this really be enforced
> in law? Can natural aggregations of genes really be hijacked in
> this way? It's all reminiscent of the chip shop owner, a Mr
> McDonald, who was challenged in court by another McDonald(s) for
> using his own name for his business. I forget the outcome.

Are you confusing copyrights and patents? Hybrid plants themselves
cannot be copyrighted, but they can be patented. This line is from
the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/
pac/doc/general/index.html#ptsc [There is a page devoted to plant
patents, too.]

"3) Plant patents may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers
and asexually reproduces any distinct and new variety of plant."

Also, "The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of
the statute and of the grant itself, 'the right to exclude others
from making, using, offering for sale, or selling' the invention in
the United States or 'importing' the invention into the United
States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for
sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making,
using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention. Once a
patent is issued, the patentee must enforce the patent without aid of
the USPTO."

However, at least hypothetically, a novel name developed for a plant,
particularly I imagine a hybrid, could be copyrighted. The name
could arguably qualify as an "original work of authorship."

My understanding is that in practice the propagation of a patented
plant is not prosecuted if the progeny are retained for personal
use. However, if the progeny were sold then the seller would be
liable for royalty payments to the patent owner and would be subject
to prosecution on patent infringement. Though enforcement is the
challenge, I still would not put a patented plant up for sale on e-
Bay, for example.

Granted that this is patent rules and practices in the U.S., but by
treaties European countries individually and through the E.U. and
most other countries, recognize U.S. patent, trademark, and copyright
laws, reflect the same basic regulations and policies, but
enforcement varies considerably between countries.

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] The Moustache and Copyright.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007

I don't think there is such a thing as a copyright expert − it is one of
the most obtuse areas of law, I think. However, there was a major
discussion of the subject on another list I frequented some years ago;
this was about facsimiles of old music manuscripts − if you buy one of
those, do you have the right to copy out the actual music and use it
without restrictions (since there is no longer any copyright on the
original material) or does the publisher hold a copyright, since he has
put some amount of effort into produce the thing? As far as I remember,
the conclusion was that you are allowed to copy the music, eg. you can
copy it over by hand to another piece of paper, typeset it and sell it
if you like, but you are not allowed to simply make a photocopy of the
facsimile, since that represents an actual effort − the original may
have been stained and difficult to read and the publisher has had to do
things to make his copy legible.

So about the old photo − my guess is that it is probably not quite legal
to scan it; on the other hand, people keep telling me there is such a
things as fair use, and I think that includes using excerpts of books
etc as some minor part of your own work; at least this is how much
scientific research happens: you build on the results of others (how
else would science progress?) and you can quote freely from others.

As the above ramble shows, I'm certainly no expert, but I think it makes
sense − to me at least ;-)

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] OT/ Copyright.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007

I think the US in particular is infested with frivolous patents and
copyright claims. I have always held the view that the law should 'feel
reasonable' − it should be understandable and seem fair to most ordinary
people. This principle doesn't always seem to hold, but I still think it
does in most case.

As for things like knitting patterns, food recipes and other things like
that − I think the question is (or ought to be) whether they actually
represent a significant creative or intellectual effort. Most knitting
patterns I have seen, with or without copyright notices on, are fairly
trivial variations of some common theme; the kind of things that you can
produce on a computer in a matter of minutes − this is how most of them
are produced. I wouldn't think one should worry too much about that kind
of 'copyright'.

And as for the 'no plant propagation' − I think that is utter nonsense.
Basing it on copyright is clearly bonkers − the genes of a cultivar
doesn't represent an intellectual or creative effort on the part of the
producer; all they have done is to grow plants, throw away the ones they
didn't like and propagate the ones they liked. It is similar to going
for a walk in nature, then if you see a tree you like the looks of you
exclaim 'This is mine, nobody else must grow this kind of tree' − where
is the creative effort in that?

No, this kind of claim simply tries to profit on they hype surrounding
'gene patents'; which incidentally is an example of a deeply immoral
abuse of the patent legislation, but that is another matter.

John, later today I will have a good look at the products that I use and give you the exact names and hopefully [if it is on the label] the ingredients.

'Tropic', thanks for the information on the name. I will follow that one up later, especially after reading what Bayer has to say on their Website.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] The Moustache and Copyright.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007

You are, of course quite right; I was confusing patents with copyright. However, the essential principle of recognition for a creative action seems (to me) the same. If one 'creates' something new by hybridisation then I would agree that there should be a right to the creator's recognition and reward. However, if purely by selection or discarding of certain natural variants a 'strain' is developed, is this not simply an end member of a natural distribution? However, I suppose one could argue that it compares with the act of selecting words from the dictionary to create literature! (Retires to corner for fierce argument with self)

Your quoted 'Note 3' is a bit puzzling to me (although I accept its intention). If a new variety is sexually reproducible then how do we prevent its further 'natural' reproduction! I seem to recall that in the orchid world there are a few hybrids which are argued to be 'natural' or 'artificial' according to one's stance on the hybrid in question. The extent to which they then sexually continue I am not sure. (Notwithstanding hybrid vigour).

Back to Tina's greenhouse pic; if an out-of-copyright image is published in a new(er) publication, does the out-of-copyright condition follow it or is it re-established by its context in the new work?

Sorry to OT members if I have caused confusion and/or boredom by my early-hours error but, as on occasions previously, Paul has assisted in clearing a lot of confusion which, I suspect, isn't unique to me and might even be useful to OT-ers.!

Just one last thought at the risk of opening new threads; how do Creationists and Intelligent Design proponents reconcile these patent issues with a universal patent holder who might be considered to have had the foresight to design so as to make hybrids a possibility? An evolutionary gene-based mechanism could be seen as one the most versatile and intelligently designed systems of all! Wish I had the patent for that! (Come to think of it, did Darwin draft an application?)

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] The Moustache and Copyright.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007

Thanks for the 'good points' compliment Tony. Trouble was, like so many emails, it was shot off at the press of a 'send' button in the early hours! (see Paul Johnson's useful comments) However, it is gratifying to find so much interest rather than irritation!

I'm sure we'll forgive you the plug! Even though I wouldn't dream of promoting my own society's activities (purely for explanation it is the Cheshire and North Wales Orchid Society Show on the 20th October at Four Oaks near Jodrell Bank Telescope. However, if anyone would like more info I can provide a photocopied non-copyright flyer).

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Provado.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007

I would like to add a warning to this Provado discussion. I was using the
aerosol spray in my greenhouse and began to suffer intense irritation in my
eyes which was initially diagnosed by my doctor as an infection. However,
when antibiotic drops and cream failed to cure the problem, it occurred to
me that this was an allergic reaction to Provado so I discontinued the
antibiotic and used an antihistamine which ended the problem.

From: Alex Scott
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Copyright and Provado.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007

Hello Rocky − you are right , the aerosol is very expensive, £4.99 for one
canister and if you have a big greenhouse it wouldnt go far. I use it on
individual plants that are susceptible.
I have also got Impatiens niamniamensis, given to me as a present by my son
as his 'Parrot plant'. Its very colourfull, easy to grow , roots in water
but very very prone to RSM. In fact I was thinking of using it as a
'sacrificial plant' − putting a clean one in a tray of orchids and if you
see any RSM on it bunging it on the compost heap. A problem could be that
the impatiens infects the orchids. I wonder if anyone has tried sacrificial
plants?
Regards, Alex Scott

As I said, I have had a look at my two Provado items and the 'ingredients' are as follows:

Provado Ultimate Bug Killer 1 Litre. Plastic spray type container.
It states: Contains 0.125g/l imidacloprid

Provado Vine Weevil Killer2. 750ml. Plastic container.
It states: Contains 9g/l thiacloprid.

This afternoon I checked on my little plant of Oncidium pubes which is growing on a small piece of bark and is suspended out of harms way. No sign of any live Red Spider Mite, that is as viewed through my Jeweller's eyeglass.

I will check again in a couple of days, and will also check the 'Congo Cockatoo'.

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Copyright and Provado.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007

Well, Roger! So "the lady gave me a nice answer to some of my questions."
you say. Can you elaborate, please?

From: Lynda Coles
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Provado
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007

Hi,
With all this talk of Provado & related produsts with their, seemingly, 'miraid' uses with respect to the disposing of plant pests, there is one aspect of imidicloprid and it's kind that does not appear to have been mentioned....now I am sure that all of you who use these products use them with due care......but... these belong to a group of systemic insecticides (neonicotinoids) whose main action is on the nerous systems and brain synapsis' of the affected insect (paralysis of the mouthparts leading to death by starvation, amongst others.). It has been implicated, by some scientists, in the current problems with bees and commercial hives ( bees are 'disappearing' and the hive industry in America and parts of Europe is experiencing great difficulties) it is thought by some, that the imidacloprid, being systemic, is present in the pollen and nectar and although bees are unlikely to be killed outright because they receive a sub-lethal dose, they become
disorientated and lethergic and are unable to return to the hive. Whole hives are being lost to the point that commercial hive owners incomes are being severely affected and, by implication, crops requiring their services are not being serviced.. There does not seem to be any investigations of problems affecting other nectar eaters such as butterfiles and moths which are also insects but most are not the target species, but who knows what effects these systemic insecticides have on their numbers. It has been found to be toxic to house sparrows, (possibly through eating 'poisened' insects on garden plants??). It's formulation targets insects and, although it is classed as moderately toxic to warm-blooded animals, it has been shown to cause reddening of the eyes of test rabbits and disorientation and lethergy in test rats.
Neonicotinoids are related to nicotine, which, as we all know, is toxic. Imidicloprid is the active ingredient in many insecticides that are currently in use in agiculture of one sort or another and some insect species are already beginng to show tolerance.
I urge all of you who are using or considering using these products so freely to do so with due caution........... remember that DDT was once thought to be the panacea to all insect pest problems but had far reaching 'issues' from which some species are still trying to recover. Whilst I am not suggesting that these new compounds have the capacity to do damage on such a scale because I am not qualified to do so, I would urge them to be sparingly and used as a last resort. They are not the reletively harmless ( to warm-bloods) that the chemical industry may attempt to convince you that they are.
As a matter of interest, the active ingredient is also used in cat and dog flea control products.
I apologise for the length of this message but just take a little time to 'google' imidacloprid, don't just rely on what Bayer has to say about their product

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Aerosol spray.
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007

Do you think your eye problem may have been caused by a hydrocarbon, or in plain words the propellant in the spray can????

That's why the message about 'Do Not Incinerate' is on the cans. And that's why some people play about with them and ignite the spray.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: A couple of good bloomers.
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007

Because I had a bud chewed by some critter or other, I decided to bring any orchids that were in the late bud stage, or were in flower, into our conservatory. At least we can enjoy them better there.

The BLC I purchased from the 'Italian' people. It has a very nice scent, and has very thick petals and sepals. Been out for a while now with no sign of going over.

The Cattleya maxima I purchased from Andreas Stockelbusch, and I am pleased with the flowers.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Name that plant.
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007

This plant was a scrap piece that I decided to pot up and see what developed. I don't even know if it was a piece from a larger plant. But what I do know is this: The new growth went away very well and it produced two nice large buds..........one of them was severely chewed by the 'critter in the night'.

I am very pleased that I took it into our conservatory, after giving it the 'Provado' treatment.

Well, as you can see, I am delighted with the flower. So large, so well formed, the colour is excellent and what a large, long lip.

Thanks to Lynda and John for the very detailed information about insecticides, very interesting.

And as Alex says, the aerosol can is expensive. I wonder what percentage of it is petroleum gas ???

Vine weevil killer is a root drench for the control of vine weevil larvae that are present in pots and containers of plants potted in normal peat type composts.
The root drench is held within the compost where it remains available over time for the plant roots to systemically take up the active ingredient. Thus further controlling the larvae as they develop and grow and feed on the plant roots.

For you to use this drench by dipping the roots of orchids into this solution would not have any effect for controlling insects on your orchid plants. Even if you were to pass the made up solution through the pots of orchids, due to the type of planting media I do not believe it would absorb any where near the sufficient amount of the product to allow take up by the orchid roots or to remain held within the compost profile. I don't expect she realises how absorbent an orchids roots are being honeycombed and work like a sponge.

In fact Provado Vine Weevil Killer is really marketed to control vine weevil larvae and gives up to 6 weeks control of aphids.

I recommend that for the control of insect pests that are feeding on leaves etc you perhaps consider using Provado Ultimate Bug Killer in the aerosol can. No doubt it works, but far too expensive. Drench the leaves with the normal hand sprayer that they sell. Or for that matter, if you ever have a hand sprayer that works well and gives a very fine spray, then keep it, wash it out and use it for Provado.

This is a very effective contact and systemic pesticide and due to the fact it is bottled in an aerosol can the insecticide projected is in a fine mist which will cover the plant very thoroughly and lightly making it very suitable for house plants including orchids. This insecticide kills a wide range of insect pests including woolly aphid, mealy bug, aphids, lily beetle, red spider mite etc.

I hope this is of some help to you and that you consider trying Provado Ultimate Bug Killer.

So there you are Ron-New, pick the bones out of that one, and tell us all what you will be using.

I for one always buy the concentrated bottle and make up enough to fill the sprayer.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Add genus to collection
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007

I grew Ascocendas & Vandas years ago with some success. I bought 4 a while ago having sold off my other plants a long time ago. This the first to flower for me. They grow in the slipper house hanging near the roof.
It's Ascda. Su-Fun Beauty 'Orange Belle' I think the bank balance is going to get a bit lower given the way they are growing for me.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Provado
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007

Lynda, thankyou for a good response concerning the use of chemicals to control items we consider as pests.I attended a talk by an organic exponent who was honest enough to accept that any chemical that kills a pest is a poison. The methylated spirits we use to kill meally bugs and scale is very poisonous to humans. Nicotine and pymethrin products are also accepted but can cause harm to humans if used stupidly. I believe that DDT will come back as an effective insecticide after more work − it virtually wiped out malaria until the politicians and bean counters expanded its use in more concentrated forms for theirvown political or financial ends. The organic brigade did not then help matters by spraying all still water in the tropics with oil to kill the mosquito larvae − they then killed the fish that ate the larvae.
I shall now get off my soap box.
Regards from a sunny but chilly Devon

From: Sue Brinsko
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Add genus to collection
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007

Roy, IMHO, Your flowers are stunning! One of the things I like best about
this list is the fact that pictures are allowed.I am vicariously enjoying
everyones gorgeous blooms... ....although my eyes just keep getting greener
and greener with each picture submitted! I constantly have to force myself
to remember my resolve not to buy more orchids til I manage to get the two I
have to bloom! Sweet torture! (wink) Sue B

On 10/18/07, Roy Lee wrote:
>
> I grew Ascocendas & Vandas years ago with some success. I bought 4 a while
> ago having sold off my other plants a long time ago. This the first to
> flower for me. They grow in the slipper house hanging near the roof.
> It's Ascda. Su-Fun Beauty 'Orange Belle' I think the bank balance is going

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Ascocendas.
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007

I have a quite similar Ascocenda which I bought some sixteen years ago from Carter and Holmes in America, Ascocenda Summer Delight 'Susan'. For the first few years it flowered and grew very well, then for some reason it has not flowered since. Also the plant 'elongated' as I would describe it.

However, it is in spike at the moment, about three inches long, and I just hope that it continues to grow and flower.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Good buys.
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007

The words 'for the purposes of private study' have been interpreted by the
Court' on at least one occasion ; a University Lecturer who photocopied
pages from a book and handed them out to his students so that they could
study them privately, nevertheless fell foul of the law.. If he had made a
copy for his own use , so that ( for example he could underline words, and
make comments in the margin, without defacing a library book ) , that would
have been OK. You could well think that the copies he made avoided students
buying copies for themselves , and hence diddled the author out of his fair
do's.. it was a commercial use.

Many people will think that if they copy a few lines, or a paragraph or two
, and use in a newsletter circulated to a relatively small group of people,
then the offence is very minor, and in any case they will almost certainly
get away with it. They may be right , but I am not going to recommend it.

You can always write and ask for permission , and if properly explained is
very often granted without any difficulty.

> Many Thanks Geoff. You are such a font of information. I am sure we all look
> forward to your postings on Orchid Talk.

> I do have J N Rentoul's 'The Specialist Orchid Grower' but had not opened it
> for a while. I note that in the front of the book, it states...

> "This book is copyright. Apart from any fair dealing for the purposes of
> private study, research, criticism or review, as permitted under the
> copyrights act, no part may be reproduced by any process without written
> permission."

> I wonder if using that page in a web article is allowed under copyright
> rules? Maybe Geoff would have some idea?

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Old times!!
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007

I had not relaised that you were a Brummie Tina − your accent does not show
up at all on the internet (joke).

I used to know a Jill (or Gill) Stagg , as a member of IVC in thelate 50's
and early 60's.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] The Moustache and Copyright.
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007

The point which few people seem to understand is that there is no
over-riding requirement that law should be logical. Frequently it ain't.

( and an even nicer illustration about the illogicality of copyright law is
that in my working life I wrote − I reckon − about 5000 patent
specifications. My clients paid me for writing them , and paid the Patent
Office for publishing them. The Crown claimed copyright in them ! )...

( Those were the UK ones ; some of them were revised and re-written by me to
fit US law, or German law or whatever − in up to about 75 different
countries, and usually published again by the local Government , wherever.
Same comments about who paid. Same comments about who claimed copyright. To
be fair, The UK Patent Office said , in reply to representations on the
subject by myself and others, that it would not enforce the copyright but I
still continued to object that this was a concession where it should have
been a right ).

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Provado
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007

I'm just back from a week of walking the Surrey Hills, and catching up on
100 e-mails.

I don't intend to get any further involved in the Copyright and Patents
thread , which seems to me to be rather off-message , even if I am ( with
all modesty ) , an expert on certain aspects of it and my Fellowship of the
Chartered Institute of Patent Attorneys ( which covers all aspects of
Intellectual Property Law) demonstrates this.

However, as to Provada , I think it was Roger who said that he found a £5
aerosol can does not go very far ; I find that the more expensive 2.5 litre
can of ready diluted Provado doesn't go very far either ; and I got fed up
of dashing back and forth to the Garden centre and buying a couple at a
time, and seeing £20 notes disappear from my wallet at a rate; of course I
do have a large greenhouse with a lot of plants.

Now I use cheapo Meths , which I buy in 2 litre bottles, and dilute to half
strength with tap water. I use little spray bottles , the sort that kitchen
anti-bacterial sprays come in, wash them out, and keep several dotted about
in the greenhouse, so that when I see anything , I can spray without having
to walk around to the door where I might have left it last time. I also wear
rubber gloves 100% of the time , the thin unlined kind, which I put on after
applying a thick layer of Atrixo cream , and so I am happy to wipe pests
away with my finger.

It is an unfortunate but seemingly unavoidable fact of life that an old
large collection always has some pests lurking somewhere , Its like the
Forth Bridge in terms of overhauling the plants, by the time I get to the
end, so that all of the plants are perfect , I look at the beginning, and
its time to start all over.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Add genus to collection
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007

Hi Roy,
The flowers on your Ascda. Su-Fun Beauty 'Orange Belle' are just lovely. We grow vandas and ascdas outside here in Florida and many are in bloom right now.
Wirey hugs and love and xxx and licks from Janet, Bobby and Asta

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Add genus to collection
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007

Greetings from down-under folks. Yes, I look at the pics of the growing areas of Robert Fuchs & Goodwin Orchids plus those of the plants in Thailand and think if I lived in Northern Australia I could do the same thing. Unfortunately I don't so I have to grow them the hard way. The good thing is that practice make pretty good, not perfect. Happy you liked the my plant.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Ascocendas.
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007

Rocky, the only thing I can think of is that you changed its cultural conditions ie. lighting, temperature, water/feeding, mix, position in house. What seems like a lifetime ago when I first started growing these plants I found that once the plant was doing everything right, don't change anything. This is common with most orchids but I found it moreso with the Vandaceous orchids in glasshouse culture.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Ascocenda.
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007

Thanks for your thoughts on why my Ascocenda went that way, but the problem was that I changed nothing. I still can't put my finger on it as plants either side of it did O.K.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Spike surprise!
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007

Yesterday I decided to move all my orchids out of the
way and clean the windows, as they had became
encrusted with limescale deposits from the tap water I
use (remember I grow inside my flat), and the light
levels are somewhat reduced by those deposits. Well,
as I was moving the orchids (all 200+ of them) I
noticed two tiny spikes on my Platystele consobrina...
I am really excited, as this will be it's first
flowering since I bought it about 6-8 months ago!

I must say that this year I have really impressed
myself by getting flowers on some very challenging
plants like Masdevallia Geneva Royale, Maxillaria
porphyrostele, Octomeria umbonulata, Epidendrum
schlechterianum, Schoenerorchis fragans, Slc Ginny
Champion and some others, most of them for the first
time!

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Another ascocenda
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007

As a follow up to my Ascocenda post, I found a slide of the Award pic for an Ascda for which I received an HCC many years ago. It was memories of this that started me off again.
Its Ascda Hawaiian Delight 'Luau'
I loved the colour too. I flowered it as a seedling and this is that flowering, sorry, only single flower pic, don't know where pic of spike is.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Myrmecophila & Schomburgkia in intermediate greenhouse
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007

My greenhouse is primarily intermediate (many oncs Cats are very happy) , (min 15 C max 28 C), I would like to "tweak it" a little or part of it. I'd like to create a room with clear plastic to hold the heat in and keep the wind out. What should I be concerned about? Lack of breezes air movment? what else? or perhaps there might be a better way?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Can anyone suggest a name?
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007

I did not get one answer to my question asking for a possible name for my flower, so maybe I can ask you all to have another search through your greenhouses/books/brains/links etc.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fatal attraction.
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007

My resent posting asking for a name of my orchid makes me remember that it was this plant which did have two large buds.

But then, 'The critter [love that American word] in the night' almost chewed one of the buds to nothing.

So, here is my very important question, which I hope some of you 'learned' people on such a subject will offer an answer.

If it is a perfume, then I will start to think of a way of stopping the critters, or, providing an alternative perfume/attraction.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2007 Archived Messages

15—21 October