2007 mailing list messages

2007 Archived Messages

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From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] News article
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007

Hello Barbara,
Interesting article. I wonder do you, as I do live in the Northeast?
Ronbow.

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Dryadella zebrina.
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007

Hi Rocky, Yes there litearally is only one or two faces left from Wessex OS, from when I joined in 1980. The late Jack King was a wealth of information and such a lovely man. including his wife , Doris. I think Charlie and Lucy Kovac are only the 'originals' that are left.
All the others are in that big greenhouse in the sky!
Regards.
Peter F.

From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] News article
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007

Hello Ron, I do, but in the northeast United States − a small but important
distinction! I use a news service and I see far more attention being
shown to native orchids in the U.K. than here in the U.S − just based upon
number of articles and content. Could it be that gardening is more endemic
and therefore present in the popular press? I suppose so. It is difficult
to judge the value of each article, as Rocky points out, but some just seem
more interesting than others.

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Books for Sale.
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007

1/ Botanica's a Pocket Orchids, Over 1200 species listed, 608p, Condition good £10

2/ A Revision of 'The Antelope and "Latourea" Dendrobiums, PJ Cribb, 692 p, good, £8

3/ Australian Orchid Research, Vol. 4 2002, 'A Review of Pterostylis, 168p, good £8

6/ Orchids-Their Description ad Cultivation, Charles H. Curtis, 1st Ed. 1950, 274p. £10

8/ Laelia De Mexico, Federico Halbinger, soft cover,71p, in Portuguese, but some great pictures £8

9/ Lindenia, 5 large volumes, modern English translation, 3Kg each in weight (15Kg without packaging)

approx. 470p per volume, hundreds of coloured plates. All in mint condition. Cost me £600 but will sell

For 50%, £300. Postage might be cheaper to send by separate volumes. Depends where they are going.

Plus postage and packing for all, although I can normally obtain the packing, gratis.

From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Barbara's keen eyes.
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007

Rocky, Perhaps the result of a journalist writing about a subject with
which they are unfamiliar. Someone says something, they don't hear "in this
area" and they've got their headline. "Local Orchid Seen Nowhere Else in the
World". Still, it is nice to see attention paid to the native orchids, even
if not deadly accurate.

How's the weather in the New Forest? It has been pouring rain here (and
most of the US) for what seems like weeks. There has been some localized
flooding here in Pittsburgh and much more out the in plain states. All this
after a relatively dry summer. Makes one think of the monsoons! But the
orchids sure do enjoy the heat and humidity.

Does anyone know where I can purchase clear plastic screw on lids to fit 1lb. glass honey jars? I know Ratcliffe's sells jars with lids but I only require lids.
Gordon.

From: Laura Peppiatt
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] some plants in flower
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007

Thank you for this info. Probably one day I will lure my hubby and go to
Thailand for holiday and buy lots of orchids to put into my greenhouse
that I am going to start building as soon as I move house in weeks
time:)

> ...For anyone reading this − you will probably find ( if
> you look at Kultana's website) that they say "wholesale only" but I have
> found them very amenable to supplying me with quantities like 50 plants
> − which I get to choose in flower, on the first day I'm there, then they
> get them all ready and cleaned up, packed up, Citesed ( I've invented a
> new word) ready to deliver to me at the airport on the last day of the
> holiday...

From: Lynda Coles
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Lids
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007

I do, there is only one person who can supply these direct as far as I understand, they are made especially for the honey jars (73mm threaded) You have to buy a lot at once though since he will not split a box (850 if my recollection is correct. at an approximate cost of 8-10pence each + vat). I regret to say that I cannot immediately give you any more details because I cannot quite bring his contact details to mind. However, should you be interested in this number, give me a while and I will search it out when I have a minute, let me know.
You may find someone that deals in them but, to be honest, I doubt it, the fellow I have in mind makes them and supplies them to the likes of Kew....... I expect someone will beat me to it and tell you where you can buy them in small numbers, just to prove me wrong!!
If you only want a few, let me know and I can send some to you if you wish.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007

In order to answer that question one would need to have seen/grown quite a
lot !
But variability is the name of the game in orchids, is it not ?

> Here are 2 specimens of Schoenorchis fragrans. One has a longer lip than the
> other. Is such variability normal in this species?

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Barbara's keen eyes.
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

It is also worth remembering that 'rare' doesn't necessarily mean that a
plant occurs only as a few individuals where it occurs. This is one of
the reasons why people can have such a hard time understanding that
certain species are worth conserving − they see tham everywhere. I
remember when I grew up, in the north of Denmark (Denmark is only just
big enough to have more than one landscape type), we had a veritable
plague of Pasque flowers; but that is just about the only place in
Denmark where it grows − it is considered rare nationally.

As for the marsh helloborine − according to The Book ('New Flora of the
British Isles', Clive Stace) it is 'locally frequent, extinct in many
inland sites'. Not quite rare, but getting there it seems.

Barbara Larimer wrote:
> Rocky, Perhaps the result of a journalist writing about a subject with
> which they are unfamiliar. Someone says something, they don't hear "in this
> area" and they've got their headline. "Local Orchid Seen Nowhere Else in the
> World". Still, it is nice to see attention paid to the native orchids, even
> if not deadly accurate.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

Here are some pics of my Schoenorchis fragrans. A pic
of the whole plant and a couple of close ups on the
flowers. Got this plant last February off a German
Ebay seller, together with other 4 orchids. This is
the only one of the lot that has, so far, flowered.
They were all much larger than I expected, considering
the price I paid! This one surprised me with a total
of 5 spikes!

Originally, the pics are quite large, so I tried to
reduce the size, hope that is ok.

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Another Book to Sale
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

In Mint condition, hardbound, 525 pages. Contains all the hand painted plates that were in Curtis's Botanical Magazine, from 1788 to 1983.

Printed on archival acid free paper. A scarce book to find now as went out-of-print some years ago.

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Original Curtis Plate with description
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

Kenneth, I do have the original 1792 plate of Epidendrum cochleatum, along with it's description. Both in good condition.

If you would like to see scans I can do this and send them to you if you are interested

From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

Esther, I had limited success with this plant. I had a minimal blooming,
but the flowers did not have the longer lip. I have not seen that variation
before, but again my experience has not been extensive.

On 8/22/07, Esther Koh wrote:
>
> You have a point there, Geoff. Does anybody else grow this plant?
>
> esther

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

I have it myself- and yes I have two plants, but only bought since seeing
them here − and neither has flowered yet.

I am doubtful if they will survive in my keeping , tiny plants in tiny pots
don't do well when I am away for 1/4 the year , and they are "looked after"
by a local odd-job man, who may − as I suspect − do nothing until the day I
am due back, then flood the greenhouse from a hosepipe...or, as a former
"helper" did − flood the greenhouse every day because its obvious that
tropical plants like humidity !
I expect I exaggerate, but you will get the point. The best way to grow
orchids of every kind, and tiny ones in particular , is to be there "for
them" , all the time.

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007

Thanks for your input. Hopefully one day, mine will also produce as much as
5 spikes simultaneously.

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007

I couldn't detect any fragrance. It has bloomed twice for me already, but
maybe there aren't enough flowers in one spike to produce any detectable
scent. Perhaps Francis could tell us whether his had any fragrance.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007

Funnily enough, I was talking about it to my partner
the other day... The name suggests that there should
be some fragrance to it, but I have tried catching
some sort of scent at various times during the day,
and so far, I haven't noticed any!

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: BOGA Orchid fayre at Dinton Country Pastures
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007

Can't make up my mind whether to go − as I am rather busy − and will it be
worthwhile ?

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: BOGA Orchid fayre at Dinton Country Pastures
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007

On 23 Aug, in article ,
Geoff Hands wrote:
> Does anyone have a list of exhibitors − trade ?

Not a complete list but Burnhams, Plesteds, Ratcliffes and Ecuagenera will
be there along with others, probably including Peter White and David Stead.

> Can't make up my mind whether to go − as I am rather busy − and will it be
> worthwhile ?

Well, it will certainly be worthwhile for us but I can't say if it will
worthwhile for you :-)

From: Laura
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA Orchid fayre at Dinton Country Pastures
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007

I went last year. The show was small in compare with Ptbr. Probably because
it was new venue and this year it may be much better.

From: N & T Burgess
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA Orchid fayre at Dinton Country Pastures
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007

Dinton Pastures − I shall be there today will let you all know who is selling later.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA Orchid fayre at Dinton Country Pastures
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007

Dinton Pastures is of course the BOGA trade fair (BOGA British Orchid
Growers Association − the trade organisation which most of the UK nurseries
belong to) They have had an annual "do" like this for very many years − at
half a dozen different locations that I can bring to mind . At one time it
was combined with the OSGB show − I remember judging at one of those events
in the RHS Halls in London in the late 1960s , when Wilma Rittershausen − of
Burnham Nurseries was the Show Secretary , and in fact it was the rather
poor standard that I saw there from my fellow judges which was one of the
factors which led to the idea of BOC with some sort of training for judges
as one of its aims .

I suppose that BOGA members have the automatic right to be present selling
their orchids, but any foreign nursery is only there by invitation ; and
BOGA is in a cleft stick here − the BOGA members don't want competition from
foreign nurseries, but if only BOGA nurseries are present then folk like me
won't bother to go because we see the same old faces and same plants
everywhere we go : what I want is novelty − someone offering me something I
haven't already got. So they "have to" invite some foreigners.

But I have 25 things to do before breakfast at the moment , so this year I
think I'll give it a miss, and browse the Azienda Agricola Nardotti site
tonight, in conjunction with Jay Pfahls Encyclopaedia , to see if I can
spend the same amount of money on some species new to my collection − and
save myself 3 or 4 hours driving there and back, too . Think of my carbon
footprint, think of air-miles , see my halo glow in the dark.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA Orchid fayre at Dinton Country Pastures
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007

And if you read this in time, it will be interesting to know what sort of
stuff is there ?

> Dinton Pastures − I shall be there today will let you all know who is
> selling later.

> I suppose that BOGA members have the automatic right to be present
> selling their orchids, but any foreign nursery is only there by
> invitation ; and BOGA is in a cleft stick here − the BOGA members don't
> want competition from foreign nurseries, but if only BOGA nurseries are
> present then folk like me won't bother to go because we see the same old
> faces and same plants everywhere we go : what I want is novelty -
> someone offering me something I haven't already got. So they "have to"
> invite some foreigners.

> But I have 25 things to do before breakfast at the moment , so this year
> I think I'll give it a miss, and browse the Azienda Agricola Nardotti
> site tonight, in conjunction with Jay Pfahls Encyclopaedia , to see if I
> can spend the same amount of money on some species new to my collection -
> and save myself 3 or 4 hours driving there and back, too . Think of my
> carbon footprint, think of air-miles , see my halo glow in the dark.

I would like to comment on something in the first line..........'selling their orchids'. Well, they may own them, but we all know where a lot of them were purchased prior to the show. Which of course is what Geoff is on about. We all want to see something fresh, something that we have not seen before, or something that we have had difficulty in obtaining. I was thinking about goring, but when I worked out how much it would cost in petrol money and the car parking charge, plus the boring drive there and back, I, like Geoff would sooner order plants from our very good friendly nursery in Italy and just wait for the postman to ring my door bell.

Or, I may have another look at the list of Andraes Stockelbusch. I purchased three Cattleyas from him at the Pompy/Southsea show.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Dinton Pastures BOGA show
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007

Whilst I can understand Geoff's and Roger's sentiments I can't help
thinking that the UK sellers are not likely to bring anything unusual to
events like this if the hobbyists don't bother to turn up.

Some of us who are on the look-our for the more unusual plants still prefer
to actually see and choose what we are buying 'in the flesh' so to speak.
Having said that, we did pre-order some plants from Ecuagenera to be
collected at Dinton :-)

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Anything unusual !!!!!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007

Thing is Tricia, they never seem to have anything unusual. It's the foreign boys that have the type of plants that interest us hobbyists.

1. Because they always do have a very wide selection, and,
2. Their prices are much lower.

I could say a lot more, but for the time being I will be very patient and good mannered.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: New Forest Orchids.
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007

The tallest that I have seen this year measured a whopping six inches/fifteen centimetres.

If you looked very carefully at the base of the plants, some of them are just starting to grow their new leaf rosette, which will of course sit there all through the winter.

From: N & T Burgess
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Sellers at Dinton Pastures
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007

The following are at Dinton Pastures this weekend −
Ivens, Roelike, M & M, I think there is another German seller with him, Lecoufle, Ecquagenera, David Stead, Burnhams, Peter White, Roy Barrow and of course Plesteds. A tombola, Just in Glass Earthen Works Jewelry.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Dryadella zebrina.
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007

Yes, I will remember your advice when I eventually get a plant of Dryadella zebrina, and also, I will read as much as possible as to how it grows in the wild.

if you didnt go to Dinton you missed a treat there were plants there ive
never heard of i could have spent many more hrs going round and around
Ecuagenera stand was a dream especialy for pleurothalidinae,there are a great variety
there if you go tomorrow
well worth it
tom

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA.
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007

> > I suppose that BOGA members have the automatic right to be present selling
> > their orchids, but any foreign nursery is only there by invitation ; and
> > BOGA is in a cleft stick here − the BOGA members don't want competition from
> > foreign nurseries, but if only BOGA nurseries are present then folk like me
> > won't bother to go because we see the same old faces and same plants
> > everywhere we go : what I want is novelty − someone offering me something I
> > haven't already got. So they "have to" invite some foreigners.

> > But I have 25 things to do before breakfast at the moment , so this year I
> > think I'll give it a miss, and browse the Azienda Agricola Nardotti site
> > tonight, in conjunction with Jay Pfahls Encyclopaedia , to see if I can
> > spend the same amount of money on some species new to my collection − and
> > save myself 3 or 4 hours driving there and back, too . Think of my carbon
> > footprint, think of air-miles , see my halo glow in the dark.

> I would like to comment onsomething in the first line..........'selling
> their orchids'. Well, they may own them, but we all know where a lot of
> them were purchased prior to the show. Which of course is what Geoff is on
> about. We all want to see something fresh, something that we have not seen
> before, or something that we have had difficulty in obtaining. I was
> thinking about goring, but when I worked out how much it would cost in
> petrol money and the car parking charge, plus the boring drive there and
> back, I, like Geoff would sooner order plants from our very good friendly
> nursery in Italy and just wait for the postman to ring my door bell.

> Or, I may have another look at the list of Andraes Stockelbusch. I purchased
> three Cattleyas from him at the Pompy/Southsea show.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA.
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007

Go to (drop down menu) , select ( for example) Cattleya E14
( sorry , no Euro's sign on my keyboard, so I used E instead, click on any
name slightly emboldened and you get the picture too.

Prices − see and scroll down to English, are plus
carriage ( E35 for
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] dinton
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007

> if you didnt go to Dinton you missed a treat there were plants there ive
> never heard of i could have spent many more hrs going round and around
> Ecuagenera stand was a dream especialy for pleurothalidinae,there are a
> great variety there if you go tomorrow

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: honey jar lids...
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007

I now recall that when I bought mine, some years ago , I looked for
bee-keepers supplies in Yellow pages, and Google etc.

Those guys need them all the time, and you may even be lucky enough to one
nearby ( a supplier to the bee-keeping fancy) who will sell you a dozen or a
hundred.

The alternative is to use those plastic sheet jar closures sold by that
Company who supply all the seed-raising chemicals − forgotten their name (
Pharma UK ? ), and no I don't mean Ratcliffes . These are big-scale lab
suppliers who will sell you scalpels, Agar, dishes, flasks, anti-biotics,
anything used in the bio industry.

Anyone who is currently into flasking is likely to be able to give you an
address . There's a guy in Cheltenham Society − Norman Eacott − if you know
him or bump into him at a show, he can tell you ( he was/is into
phalaenopsis stem-culture and has talked to local Orchid Societies about it
). Don't have his contact details − he gave the Pharma or whatever name it
is to me , and I used to buy my materials from them − but that's all a long
time ago , and I gave away/threw away everything when I left the Cotswolds
to a smaller house.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007

By coincidence, at the Devon O S meeting last sunday amember exhibited their Schoenorchis jincifolia C C C ,RHS. This is a Vandacious type plant growing down from a potfor about 60 cms. It had about 20 spikes of flowers and was such an outstanding plant I photographed it. A copy is attached.
Regards from a sunny Devon

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Looking for a foto of Cat Hybrid Winnie Pooh?
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007

I am trying to find out something about this (Cat. Winnie Pooh) hybrid I have, parantage, or a pict of the flower. I google but all I get is Walt disney. Is there a better way to look up who the parents are?

Or maybe some know of a good source for photos of cat Hybrids, anything will help.

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Looking for a foto of Cat Hybrid Winnie Pooh?
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007

There's Rolfeara Winie the Pooh. Parentage SC Gladys Miller x Rolfeara Betty Moe. I found it on the RHS database by just putting Winnie into the grex box and searching. Rolfeara is Sophronitis x Rhynchosophrocattleya apparently..

I went to this too on Saturday. It is a bit of a schlep from here but I had
some other things to do nearby.... I got a few delightful minis from
Equagenera and Roelke... both are always worth a second look in my
experience. I think it is important to go early as often the interesting
ones have only 1 or 2 of a particular species. Someone bagged a rather nice
Stelis as I was about to pick it up and I gathered from talking to some of
the stallholders that they had done good business in the morning.

Of the British "growers" I'd say a very poor show − not much in evidence
that you couldn't get in Homebase (only more expensive) and I presume
sourced from the same Dutch growers. I could say more on this score but
don't want to get into a full blown rant!

Cattleya harrisoniana − going over now − hence the bloom just out of shot is
a bit manky. How often I say I must take a photo of that and then leave it
too late. However it is producing another spike on a lead from this one.
I have noticed that this plant and C forbesii both do this every year.

Dendrobium Frosty Dawn − I do love these Formosae section hybrids. They
last for ages and this one really is this startling red colour.

Laeliocattleya Mini Purple Blue Hawaii − I bought this one from Elsner last
year and this is a first flowering − lots of growth though and I am hoping
for a specimen before too long. Roelke had several of these in bloom on
Saturday at BOGA.

Calanthe furcata ( triternata) − This has always had rather poor foliage
and someone said they had seen it growing in very very dim light in the
wild. So I moved it under the bench − and promptly forgot about it. It has
2 spikes − not quite as good as previous flowerings but the foliage is
absolutely unmarked.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Looking for a foto of Cat Hybrid Winnie Pooh?
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007

Could it be Rolfeara Winnie the Pooh? If so, then the
parents are SC Gladys Millner x Rolfeara Betty Moe,
registered by Fort Caroline in 1973.

The best way to look up at hybrids' parentage is on
the International Orchid Register, held by Kew. You
can look it up online, just google it and you can
either look up a grex name, which will give you the
parent plants, or you can do a parentage search, where
you put in the name of an orchid and it will come up
with all the crosses that have been made with that
orchid.

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Looking for a foto of Cat Hybrid Winnie Pooh?
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007

Hi Jim -
Wildcatt has Blc. Winnie the Pooh Lc. Gladys Millner
x Blc. Betty Moe, registered in 1973 by Ft. Caroline's
Regards − Nancy

~~~~~~~~~~~
"It isn't enough for your heart to break
because everybody's heart is broken now."
------Allen Ginsberg

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] in bloom
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

I have a hybrid of the same section, and possibly
similar parentage. Den Dawn Maree. I have never
managed to get it to flower for me, although it keeps
growing every year. I bought it in flower, so I know
it must be my cultural care that is the problem.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] in bloom
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

Lovely flowers.
Wirey hugs and love and xxx and licks from Janet, Bobby and Asta

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

I would like to support home industry − wherever, but all my life I have
been hearing moans about how you can't run a successful orchid nursery in UK
for one reason or another.
Having never tried, I have only opinions.

But I can't see that the usual excuses really stand up.
If someone can make a profit − as I assume they do − in Holland, Italy,
Germany, to name but three European countries where bureaucracy, labour
costs, and much else too has to be very similar to here, what is the magic
factor which makes it impossible here ?
Years ago, when Wyld Court packed up and went to Madeira, they blamed
heating costs ; obviously you need very little heat there − but that can't
apply in Germany.
What I do notice when I visit European nurseries ( in general, of course
there are exceptions) is that they tend to have state-of the-art kit For
example ( and I could go on ) I first saw electronically controlled thermal
screens in a very high greenhouse designed for maximum heat-buffer effect
in a nursery near Celle − not far from the Harz mountains, where they put
their winter tyres on in October, knowing the snow will come any day soon. I
have not done the calculations but I think they may have cut a good 25% if
not more from their heating bill that way (alone).
I (cynically ? )doubt if most UK nurseries would even know what I was
talking about if I mentioned heat buffers or thermal screens − but they
still moan about heating costs even though they waste heat.

There Andy , I've done your rant for you . Now it's time to go and mow the
lawn.

> ...Of the British "growers" I'd say a very poor show − not much in evidence
> that you couldn't get in Homebase (only more expensive) and I presume
> sourced from the same Dutch growers. I could say more on this score but
> don't want to get into a full blown rant!

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

There Andy , I've done your rant for you . Now it's time to go and mow the
lawn.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

> By coincidence, at the Devon O S meeting last sunday amember exhibited
> their Schoenorchis jincifolia C C C ,RHS. This is a Vandacious type
> plant growing down from a potfor about 60 cms. It had about 20 spikes
> of flowers and was such an outstanding plant I photographed it. A copy
> is attached.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

S.juncifolia is the one we are talking about here, despite the name in the
thread starter.

It's almost constantly in flower for me , although about three spikes is the
best so far − but I've not had it too long yet . Twenty is certainly the
result of good growing for some time, I should think. Clearly the committee
- them up at Vincent Square − think that 20 is pretty good, to hand out the
CCC .

By the way , its not the plant that gets the award , it's the grower. AM and
FCC , botanical certificate etc, are all given to plants.

CCC is a Certificate of Cultural Excellence, and is given ( it's the only
one so given) to the GROWER.

But before anyone gets too excited, the individual flowers are rather
smaller than individual bell heather flowers ; in fact a complete spike is
about the size of the ordinary ( not bell-heather) flowers that are turning
large areas of the New Forest a darkish pink right now. !

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

No, Gordon I don't but a picture was published in The Orchid Review a while back. I will have a look when I find time. I am retired you know!.
Regards from a sunny Devon

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

where do eu growers get there plants??mr perry seems to supply beautiful
plants ,although he doesnt go to shows now,shame big miss

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk]That Italian nursery...
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

I'm happy to say that they now accept payment by credit card − the page is
only in Italian, but I managed to follow it ( I think)

If I get 25 crates of Vermicelli instead , I'll know that my confidence in
reading Italian was misplaced. ( only joking)

From: Cyril Whalley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Dendrobium Frosty Dawn
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007

Hi, Everyone,
My name is Cyril and I am just emerging from a long, long period of lurking. What has pulled me into the open is the gorgeous picture of Andy's Dendrobium Frosty Dawn, I thank all of you for the loads of info over many months which has enabled me me to grow and flower such things as Vanda (in vase,) and Catasetum in a south window in Morecambe Lancs. I currently have nine plants. Any ideas of where I could by a plant of Frosty Dawn?
Regards
Cyril

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

I've been wondering about that too. It occurs to me that we in UK (well,
I say 'we', although I am only, as my wife would say, 'second hand
British', having come over from Denmark originally) have a different
attitude from the rest of Europe when it comes to gardening and plants
in general.

It is a feeling that has been growing on me for a long time − when I go
to garden centres, or to Kew − or look at garden programmes on the
telly: it doesn't look at all like what I have seen in Denmark, that's
for sure. When you go to a garden centre in Denmark (it been 10 years,
though) it's mostly about plants. You may be able to pick up a pot or a
bag of soil, but it's nothing like here, where a garden centre is more
than half full of garden furniture and gadgets that have little to do
with flowers and vegetables.

The botanical gardens I have visited in Denmark (and China) look like
research collections, whereas Kew looks more and more like a theme park,
which is a shame. And it seems the trend in modern gardening (or at
least garden programmes) is that it should all be concrete, pergolas and
horrifying 'artistic features' − oh, and a plant or too, if they don't
spoil the overall picture of the 'outdoor room'.

Maybe I am unfair − but if this is the sort of ideas that rumble around
in the minds of commercial growers combined with the impression that you
have to be able to mass produce flash looking flowers by the millions
for Tesco, perhaps it isn't so strange that growers just roll over and
give up.

Still, I am not sure it is quite as bad. There are at least a couple of
interesting growers − Equatorial Plants is one, and there's you fellow
that I bought some very nice Phalaenopsis seedlings from.

Geoff Hands wrote:
> I would like to support home industry − wherever, but all my life I have
> been hearing moans about how you can't run a successful orchid nursery in UK
> for one reason or another.
> Having never tried, I have only opinions...

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Dendrobium Frosty Dawn
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

You may be able to get D.Dawb Maree "Ortchis" − which is very similar , from
the Italian Nursery we talk about − here is the link to the page:-

http://www.nardottoecapello.it/dispimage.asp?folder5
&pn10&dinone&ssALL+IMAGES&an1878

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Moans and groans.
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

Nice to hear what you had to say, especially as you are absolutely correct. It all adds weight to what Andy, Geoff and I and others have been saying for some years.

To add more weight to what you said about the difference in Garden Centres here and Garden Centres in other E.U. countries, I can clearly see a mental picture in my mind of the many Garden Centres/Orchid Nurseries/Florists shops that I have seen in other E.U. countries and they are superb. They leave us well behind.

Hi 'Bhotplant', yes it is a shame that Malcolm Perry does not appear at shows, but maybe us all having a moan will perhaps give him a prod.

Mornin' Andy, yes, many of the so called British Growers do make a trip to Holland/Germany just before a show..........and Malc Perry goes over as well, but I believe Malc visits a nice German Nursery.

And a good morning to you Geoff. Absolutely true what you said about the heating an other state of the art controls. It's no wonder I refer to some of our so called 'Orchid Growers' as just 'Staging Posts'.

As I was sat here typing this E-mail, I noticed another one had come in..........from 'Currlin Orchideen'. I had a look at their website. It's like many others from the E.U. Just have a look at it and you will see straight away why we collectively are having a moan.

I started with you Jan, so I will end with you. Just to make a point, here is a photo of the front display of a Florists shop in Tallinn, Estonia. So smart, so precise, so 'On-the-ball'.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

The European Union (EU) is a union of twenty-seven independent states based
on the European Communities and founded to enhance political, economic and ...

(http://66.102.9.104/search?qcache:jSxkupzBo5sJ:userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/adressen/eu.htm
(http://www.google.co.uk/search?hlen&ieUTF-8&qrelated:userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/adressen/eu.html)

to me its them over the water ,i know we are in it (well and
truely)there are a few orchid nurseries who do good lawrence hobbs,
malcom perry, royden ,there must be some others.Garden centers ??if
you look around you can find some good nurseries but a lot of them spec
when i need a plant i look in the rhs plant finder and they are
normally the one man nursery i like

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Orchid Nurseries
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

When Orchid Answers first opened up I went down on a visit. I was astounded to see the acres of empty greenhouses. After a bit of research ( which could be wrong) I understood that they were built after WW2 to rent to ex-service men to grow food. This was also done in Holland and Germany. The English growers could not make a living but the Dutch went from strength to strength as their government subsidised the fuel cost. This meant the greenhouse industry in England flopped but the Dutch flourished. I doubt this still goes on but the basic industry was set up.
Even back then the British Bean Counters were in control'
Regards from a cloudy and cold Devon

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans − variability
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

Gordon, I have found the ref. but the picture is similar to mine. It is in orchid Review Jan/Feb 2006 and it was awarded a Botanical Certificate.
Regards

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cattleya Bob Elliot
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

Just photographed this Cattleya of mine. A plant that was given to me, and one that had not had any tender loving care, aka TLC.

I have seen something similar with the same name on the website of Vacherot and Lecoufle.

It has now been open for about four days and the scent has started to make itself known.....wonderful.

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Malcolm Perry
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

Yes he certainly has some very interesting species, which I purchased from him, when I was fit and could stand up for more than 10 minutes! He may not be a member of BOGA? I don't know.

I remember Peter Tremain when he grew mainly Cattleya species & hybrids, plus Paphs. and Phals. I never saw a cleaner greenhouse and superb, healthy plants.

One show he was at , his plants were selling like hot cakes at very reasonable prices. Brian Ritterhausen complained to him that his plant were too inexpensive and should put the prices up. He said politely that he was making a profit from his plants and would not increase the prices. I don't know if he is still going; maybe someone could let me know.

Going back to "the good old days", when McBeans were top of breeding new hybrids especially Cymbidiums and Odont. Sadly no more.
There was Wyld Court, which I loved visiting and they of course bred Lycastes and Angulocastes hybrids.
They could not afford to replace their antiquated , leaking greenhouses, which as Geoff rightly pointed out, must have cost a bomb to heat.
One of the first plants I bought was a very large Anguloa clowesii.
I did not find it the easiest plant to grow.
There was ? forgot name , just up the road from me , south of Basingstoke who bred the Equitant Oncidiums, as they were known then. I had quite a few, in my first year of growing, some 25-26 years ago. Did not overwater them and gave then plenty of light and they thrived and flowered well. Lost my first plant after 5 years and thought it was terrible. Told Jack King (Member of Wessex OS) and said I was doing well to only lose one in 5 years. I did not know any difference.
Talking of the late Jack King, he used to tell me when he went to Charlesworth. Jack liked his Odonts. He said they treated you as if you were their most important customer and received the same treatment every time, irrespective of how many plants you bought.
Way back, I remember Mansell & Hatcher used to breed a lot of Odonts/Allies. They did breed some very good hybrids but now ,most but probably (to be fair), are plants from Holland, which a lot of the other nurseries are selling, at inflated prices, because I know how much they pay for them.

He moved from Porlock (Up the top
of a very steep hill, I remember).
Charlie Kovac & I was always visiting as he had some very high quality Phals. Charlies words!

Peter Fowler, Four Marks, halfway between Alton & Winchester on the A31. Just closed our sub-post office after some 100+ years. It is a real pain now.

> ...Hi 'Bhotplant', yes it is a shame that Malcolm Perry does not appear
> at shows, but maybe us all having a moan will perhaps give him a prod...

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

Yes Tom, I did know that − it's just your use of all lower case letters (
like the poet e.e.cummings ?) which made me wonder what you meant when you
asked the question " where do eu growers get their plants"

Well now, in France I have visited Vacherot & leCoufle ( in Paris) many
times . They grow their own.

I have just ordered − for the third time − from Azienda Agricola Nardotto ,
and so do they.

All is not quite lost in UK, since McBeans do raise some stuff themselves,
and Janet Plested does a lot too. Peter White does a bit − but − (McBeans
apart − and much of their trade is outside the UK hobbyist side that we
inhabit) all that is very small scale − more or less one-man businesses. I
left out Burnham − who certainly do some raising from flask, but I think
that much of their business is trading − buying in and selling on − as is, I
think, the guy in Chester , etc. etc. Mansell & Hatcher seem to have
completely disappeared, would not be surprised to hear that the greenhouses
are demolished and the land sold for building.

Obviously I don't know what goes on everywhere − growers don't come up to me
and pour out their secrets − this is what I see and gather.

Maybe it always was so ; where is the busy orchid business in its 3rd
generation ? ( Ratcliffes ?- I can hear those in the know harrumphing at
that ! ).

Way back before the war ( no, not Napoleon − Hitler) some hot money from
Hollywood went into some of the US nurseries − and now ? all gone. they are
as bad as we are ! Maybe its only that I don't know the comparable history
that I can't say the same about European firms − but V & L are now into
their 5th generation ! ( I think that Victoire is the fifth − if not, it's
my French , no it's not, it's my ears .. my age . my decrepititude..my
stupidity − you name it.

From: Bhotplant@aol.com [mailto:Bhotplant@aol.com]
Sent: 30 August 2007
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] BOGA

The European Union (EU) is a union of twenty-seven independent states based
on the European Communities and founded to enhance political, economic and
...
userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/adressen/eu.html − 4k -
Cached -
Similar pages

to me its them over the water ,i know we are in it (well and truely)there
are a few orchid nurseries who do good plants lawrence hobbs,

malcom perry, royden ,there must be some others.Garden centers ??if you look
around you can find some good nurseries but a lot of them specialise

when i need a plant i look in the rhs plant finder and they are normally the
one man nursery i like

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Moans and groans.
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

Hi Rog, your pic . I think all these are "bunches of flowers" − its more
of a Germanic tradition , I think, to go visiting relations at week-ends,
taking a bunch of flowers with one − and "bunch of flowers" may turn out to
be an anthurium, or even an orchid (plant) . I was told by a German nursery
once, that they aimed to grow plants for exactly this purpose, in fact 75%
of their income came from selling large quantities to the German department
stores ; no, they were not interested in attending the next EOC thank you,
who wants customers like me ? I want to know the name of the plant ?
Whatever next , etc . all delivered in a hectoring voice, after which I was
taken by the arm, and led into the office so that I could drink schnapps- to
prove it was nothing personal , just the way the world goes round. of course
, after a few glasses of schnapps, the world does go round !

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Peterborough International Orchid Show 2008
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re; fossil orchid material from circa 80my
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

Members of Orchid Talk may have seen today's Guardian article (Guardian, Thursday August 30th 2007

There has long been controversy over the date of the origin of the class and while some workers have become convinced that they may have arisen in very early Cretaceous or even Late Jurassic, others have estimated or concluded that they are a late Cretaceous or early Tertiary phenomenon (a difference of some 50 million years).

If the Guardian report (I haven't seen the horse's mouth article) is accurate and the orchid pollen (pollinia?) is identified with certainty, then here is proof of the greater rather than the lesser antiquity of orchids. If anyone else has seen the original article or has closer information about the circumstances of the find, please let us all know! I doubt that anyone in the group can recall conditions of the early Cretaceous

Just in case the idea of nearly 100,000,000 year old fossil pollen raises eyebrows, maybe it is worth mentioning that plant spores are amongst the most durable of fossils and spores from the Coal Measures and earlier are routinely recorded in astonishing detail.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Re; fossil orchid material from circa 80my
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

From: suzanne sadler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Writhlington Orchid Project
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

I found this on a forum and wondered if you guys knew anything about it. http://www.wsbeorchids.org.uk
if only my school had done stuff like this.

From: suzanne sadler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Writhlington Orchid Project
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

I found this on a forum and wondered if you guys knew anything about it. http://www.wsbeorchids.org.uk
if only my school had done stuff like this.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: More on the fossil orchid pollinia
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

The following URL was published in another orchid forum in the latest email from orchids@orchidguide.com and is a good summary of the discovery and its significance to science.
http://www.sciencedaily.com:80/releases/2007/08/070829143719.htm
John Stanley

From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Re; fossil orchid material from circa 80my
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

John, I read about this yesterday with great interest. Here are two
links to information on the orchid pollen(confirmed) in amber with a few
photos. Not the original article but interesting information. I believe I
can get the original article over the weekend from the academic databases
and will advise when available. Barbara

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19526194.000-orchid-fossil-reveals-flowers-domination-of-earth.html

From: Brenda Beale BB
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: C.Bob Elliot
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

Hi Rocky
Bob Elliot was a friend of mine sadly he died a good few months ago after a longish illness. I believe Jo Kelleher made the cross and named it after Bob but I ca'nt remember the parents, I will try to find out for you.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Re; fossil orchid material from circa 80my
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

John, If you go to www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007.08.070829143719.htm you will find the full article. This was obtained from orchid guide. Regards

Does anyone have any idea what this could be?
Flower size 3.5 x 3.5 inches dorsal 2 x 2 inches
Gordon.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: First impressions and customer satisfaction.
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

My photo of the front display of a florists shop in Tallin, Estonia was to show the difference between the two local florists shop displays in my home town.

My local florists just plonk some flowers and plants on the pavement in a bucket, etc, etc. and their window display is non existent.

The shop in Tallin has gone to much trouble to present their goods that are for sale to attract customers.

Likewise, an orchid nursery near Antwerp named 'Jacky Orchids' [do have a look at their website] also go to a lot of time and trouble to satisfy their customers. They have a lovely area to walk through which is dripping in orchids..........no charge !!!!! Unlike Burnhams 'Orchid whatever the name was'.

And when I asked Willy [Jacky's husband] that I wanted a certain orchid, he led me to the bench where there must have been fifty or so.........."Let's pick out a good one for you", said Willy. Can you see that happening over here.

What Geoff said rings true. What has happened to a bit of pride and customer satisfaction???

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Re; fossil orchid material from circa 80my
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

A ( probably) similar piece in The Times with an excellent photograph − the
amazing thing to me was that the bee was covered with pollinia − not in
penny numbers but dozens ( will try and retrieve the copy from the recycle
box, so as to be able to scan and send − if wanted ).

Clearly the bee had visited a whole filed of flowers, and got all the pollen
stuck to its back , without any ( of these, anyway) getting transferred.

On Darwins well known thesis, I guess this species was on its way to rapid
extinction !

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Name please
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

Come on Gordon, you are pulling my leg. It's a paph of course − but how are
we expected to guess from the rear view ?

I was interested to read all about Permanganate of Potash, but as my three water butts have tight fitting lids, then I would not be buying any..........that is..........

I have my orchids stood on upturned saucers which sit on capillary matting, and although it is a good quality, it does have some unsightly marks on it plus some tiny round brown things which when looked at under a jewellers eyeglass turn out to be a fungi of some sort.

And having just looked at the Internet and seen an article about gardening and the possible keeping at bay the dreaded woodlice and slugs by using P.P. I would like to ask those that know a question.

If I purchased some P.P. and mixed it in a watering can and watered the capillary matting, do you think that it would deter any nasty growth etc.

Final question. Is it also called Potassium Permanganate, and the best/easiest place to buy it.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] C.Bob Elliot
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

I also have it on what was my lap-top which I've passed on to Joyce ( my
wife) . When I have a few minutes − if you haven't had it elsewhere, I'll
have a look.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cattleya Bob Elliot.
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

What a coincidence. I will look after this plant with extra care, and if it gets large enough and can be split, then I will send a piece to you.

Jo Kelleher..........I am sure I have met Jo somewhere, but you know how it is when we get a bit older..........so much information stored 'upstairs' that sometimes we get a little bit muddled.

Or am I confusing Jo with the wife of the man [passed away some years ago] who used to do the photography for the 'Orchid Review'. I can see his face now.

'Pilgrims to the Isles of Penance' [Orchid Gathering in the East] by Mrs Talbot Clifton. 1911. Very interesting book, and goes a long way to backing up what Geoff and I have said about how some people 'look' at orchids, compared to others.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Name please.
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

As to a name..........I think that I purchased an identical plant in a store in Southampton just last week. The store is called 'The Range'. Price for the plant..........I think a 'tenner'.

Geoff's interesting piece about the Orchid Nurseries in the U.K. versus those in the E.U. certainly rings true, as I have just received Burnham's 'flyer'.

Had a look at the prices..........that's why I buy from the E.U. Nurseries. Simple as that.

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] in bloom
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

D Dawn Maree is one of the parents of D Frosty Dawn. and I would expect the
culture to be very similar. I have a few related ones and they all flower
readily for me. I grow them in good light − they are among the cattleyas,
plenty of air movement and min night temp of 15.

If yours are growing well and a nice dark green but no flowers, I think
they are probably too cosseted. I'd either try increasing the light or a
bit of a shock like keeping them cool and dry for a few weeks.

Here are 2 others that are in flower now − I notice thought that i took
these photos in May and they are still looking fresh 3 months later.

"francis quesada pallares" wrote on Wednesday, August 29
> Hi Andy,
>
> Beautiful plants, specially that dendrobium!
>
> I have a hybrid of the same section, and possibly
> similar parentage. Den Dawn Maree. I have never
> managed to get it to flower for me, although it keeps
> growing every year. I bought it in flower, so I know
> it must be my cultural care that is the problem.
>
> Could you shed any light on my direction as to what I
> should be doing?

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Malcolm Perry
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007

Peter Tremaine retired from commercial orchid growing ( although it was
something of an early retirement hobby, anyway) when he moved from Porlock
, as I understood it. He gave various reasons to me, in the time he was
talking about it , but mostly I think he was tired of it , and the excuses
were rationalisations. I won't say any more.

McBeans, sadly no more ? They are still there Peter, and if they don't go in
for Cymbidiums in a big way today, well who does ! Whjen they show at
Chelsea etc., they put on superb displays, albeit on a smaller scale than
the old firm.

But much of their trade is very local; after one recent Chelsea (I think it
was) I went along to collect plants selected from the display , and clearly
the Sunday morning sales staff were quite taken aback by having an actual
orchid grower who didn't just want "that big pink thing" unlike the other
99 people in the queue who had popped in from Brighton etc., to buy a plant
for mother's day etc.

Was it Ted Lloyd who grew the equitants ? Amazing how many plants he
squashed into a quite small greenhouse ; he moved to Norfolk − Terrington
St.John or a similar name, and tried to set up a version of what Brian R
(Burnham's) did at Orchid World − I believe he was originally funded by the
African Violets chap next door − but when I went it was − like so many -
under-capitalised, so that if you paid your money and walked through, you
saw very few actual plants in flower. Then he tried to raise capital selling
shares to orchidists and the Stock Market complained that selling shares to
the public that way was against the law, and after that he disappeared
completely as far as I know.

Charlesworths were of course the very model of 19th century trading − you
point to the good side, but the bad side was that they were probably still
running 60 foot greenhouses, each staffed by a man and a boy , with
humidification done with a brass syringe and a bucket , and shading by
rolling hand-made lath blinds along runners on the glass , when the owners
threw the towel in , sold the plants and name to McBeans, and the land for
building − I reckon they made more money from that than they would have done
keeping the orchid firm running for another ten thousand years. Who could
blame them − they simply inherited it and owned it, didn't even like
orchids, as I recall being told.

Mansells is a complex tale of the nursery being sold by Ronnie Hatchers
widow(?) etc., the Stead family ( when David was a young chap) buying it,
selling a half share to an asset stripper ( as told to me, anyway) being
horrified at what happened , buying it back at a loss, realising that it had
gone too far down the slippery slope to ruin , and then selling out to Alan,
who bought it with borrowed money so as to keep his job . The sleeping
partner ( i.e. one who was not involved in running the business − nothing
sexual intended) later partner wanted out ( realised that she had poured
money into a black hole ? ) and Alan sold the breeding plants to find the
money ; the lab got contaminated and he didn't do anything about it ... A
very sad tale − he − Alan is a nice bloke, but out of his depth in finance
and managerial matters I suspect . Are they even still in business selling
Dutch plants ?

Anyone interested should remember it , us old geezers won't be around for
ever. ( I say this having just returned from a day in hospital -all's well
it seems, apart from a bruised head after hitting the floor when I passed
out − the diagnosis seems to be faulty prescribing, and having just
destroyed that lot of tablets, the prognosis is good... but not around for
ever remains true. )

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2007 Archived Messages

22—31 August