2007 mailing list messages

2007 Archived Messages

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From: Tina Stagg
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fogger
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007

It's also on a time clock so that it only operates between 9am and 6pm − probably not necessary now but I set it up this way initially hoping to save money. I admitted defeat and bought the hygrometer about a week later to avoid the total saturation I got with the time clock.

As someone recently mentioned the word 'Heating', was it you Tony? I decided to scan some pages from a Met Office booklet.

I feel sure that many of us will have orchids from Central America and will often wonder how low the orchids can go without too much harm.

Of course much depends on the height above sea level, but I do hope that these tables will put your minds at rest.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fogger
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007

Hello Tina,
Thank you for the info. 60% humidity is higher than I ever get by dowsing the floor and surrounds, in the forties is the best I get but I do frequently mist the plants on hot dry days.It is my intention to purchase a fogger but I am a bit concerned by the comments of one of our group re the mist getting into the electrics and blowing the fuses. My electrics whilst relatively modern are not water proof and may not take kindly to total saturation. You mention 9am to 6pm. I wonder do you run the unit continuously all of that time or only in frequent short bursts? Tom apparently runs his for 10 -15 minutes every hour. I wonder if a less powerful unit, say the 3 disc one would be more suited for my 16 by 12 feet greenhouse.
I would appreciate any comments from any one.

From: Tina Stagg
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fogger
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007

Whilst the hydrofogger is timed to be 'on' all day, it is controlled by the hygrometer unit which switches the fogger on whenever the humidity falls below the set level, in this case 60%. On a hot, dry day it may come on frequently and for some time, on a damp dark day, hardly at all. It will depend on what the flooring is, how damp the greenhouse is naturally, etc.

The hydrofogger I have is the large one from Simply Control, which I run, without its directional top, placed in the centre of my 11'6" wooden octagonal. The flooring is random paved, with open joints to a hardcore base, so there is some natural overnight rising damp. If I were starting again I would perhaps consider buying the smaller one for this particular greenhouse.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Hydrofoggers and funerals
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007

In connection with recent discussions from Tina and Ronbow re; foggers. Forgive me if I am saying the obvious but it is my impression that you, Tina, are talking about the white and green upward tapering job with a small ball-valve (refilled automatically from a tap or gravity source) in which the 'fog' is generated with the aid of a fan in the lower guts of the device. Ron Bower), in contrast, (I suspect) is talking about an ultra-sound micro-droplet generator often used for generating decorative whispy water 'smoke' and seen in garden centres often associated with indoor water features. If I am wrong read no further!

Tina's kind (which we use also) generates a droplet fog which will fill a 16x9 greenhouse very quickly and which is emitted fast enough to make it unwise to stand close for more than 2 or three seconds unless you enjoy wet clothes! Plants in the vicinity get wet very quickly.

Ron's ultrasonic condensed droplet generator creates a less dense 'smoke' which wets plants, but nowhere near as quickly as the Hydrofogger. This discoid ultrasonic generator variety can be 'ganged' to increase generation of airborne moisture but, in our experience, doesn't compete with the fan generator. On the other hand, the droplets are exceedingly fine and they may well be more useful in small spaces or for where it is wished to selectively hunidify a specific plant or bench area.

I recall that Geoff (Hands) has/had Tina's kind (that's where I learned of them). We had tried the ultrasonic type earlier but they don't take kindly to drying out. Self-destruct is the operative word. On the other hand, small animals seem not to enjoy the ultrasound!

Incidentally,does the addition of any pesticide or fertilzer to the reservoir in either type result in those chemicals being dispersed? Or do they simply concentrate in the reservoir as mist is created?

Re electrics; either of these devices, whatever they do for plants, will make a thorough job of wetting surfaces and between hard surfaces in contact (ie., plugs and sockets). I make no recommendations other than to suggest the fitting proper weatherproof electrics but confess to having plugged plugs into trailing extension leads where both the delivery cable, the plug and socket and the supply cable are inside a polyethylene zipper bag with its partial opening facing down. Whatever you do, don't have sockets with their holes facing upwards! Make sure you wear rubber wellies and fit sensitive trips. Much better, look into the wisdom of proper sealed-off sockets or build a proper watertight plastic box with sealed (gromited) holes for all cables to enter and exit and mount it well away from high concentrations of mist or water.

Gangs of switches in boxes, rubber sealed and with flexible rubber covers sealed to the box can be bought at aquarium suppliers. Electrical switchable connections via these can be more or less permanent or, at least, reduce the number of potentially hazardous plugs. Also the wearing of pretty pink Marigold gloves or hands inside poly bags is a wise move before separating plug from socket if water is, or has been around. If you are unsure of your electrical skills then always seek proper expertise

There is a surprising phenomenon in connection with (even) mains electricity and water. The hazard is not so much the water but any ions therein. However, never assume that immersed electrics are tripped or fused and therefore 'dead'!!! I recall once fishing around with my bare hands in a leaking aquarium to rescue the remaining fish. I eventually discovered that the partially-exposed glass heater tube had broken and that there was a coiled coil of live heater wire in the water. I suspect that I presented no easy way to Earth since I was standing with rubber soles on carpet but it made me think twice about being so casual! Sweaty fingers, wet leather sandals and an earth floor would have been a better recipe for demise and note that weatherproof electrics are probably far cheaper than even the most basic of funerals.
John.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fogger
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007

Thank you for your explanation which I found interesting and informative.I had intended, this weekend to purchase the biggest maplin fogger but now think that the smaller 3 disc size may be more suitable for my greenhouse which has a concrete floor and is about 1000 cuft. I do recall the picture of your 11''6" octaginal greenhouse and how nice it looked and I am stoking the grey matter to remember my maths, Pythagoras ect to work out the capacity of yours but it's a long time ago so I will have to look it up. No doubt one of our members will tell me. I hadn't thought of the Simple Control unit but looking at it in their catalogue I wonder if I have room for the gear and controls it has. I think I could manually or semi manually control the Maplin unit.
Thanks for your help.

Last year I asked around for information on growing and how to get it to bloom.
jns replied by saying it should be grown hotter and brighter. I could not go
hotter,.
as my summer temperatures are in the mid to end thirties centigrade. So I moved
the blant into a brighter position where it gets sunlight for most of the day.
Here is the result. At the end of April it started to produce 2 inflorescenses
and
they are almost full open.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Opsistylis
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007

Congratulations on the flowering of that sun lover.
The leaves never saw a shadow.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Opsistylis
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007

I guess I must have missed the chat about Opsistylis − I have one too -
bought at the last WOC. It has grown well, now has 5 pairs of leaves, hard,
rigid, etc., and good roots − including aerial roots ( rather like Vanda
roots − 7 or 8mm dia ).
But never a sign of a flower...
I grow it hanging up with my Vandas, Mokaras, Renantheras etc − and there
seems to be plenty of light for them , some of them flower almost
continuously. There is one layer of shade cloth on the roof, but very little
on the gable ends , just the remains of some Summer Cloud put on last year.
I have now moved my plant to be next to the southerly gable end , and can't
see how to give it any extra light , except by putting it outside − but not
at this time of the year I think!

Some plants that need a temperature drop to initiate flowers − like Phals -
only need a short spell , maybe even a single night ( will comment on that
later − I forgot and left my double doors wide open a few days ago − found
the heating on full blast when I went in at 9 in the morning − may have been
down to 12 or so (?) in the night − I'll see how many phal spikes have
started in say a month ). Others, like dendrobiums, I think it is moiré
case of telling the plant "this is the end of the growing season, now it's
time to think about the flowering season" and for that , a few weeks is
needful (?)
But Opsistylis − does it need a blast of undiluted sunshine for a day, a
week or a season ?

From: LEONARD HANDLEY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: potassium permanganate
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007

I use a form of hydroculture with orchids on a window sill. To prevent algae growth I am trying potassium permanganate in a fairly weak concentration in rainwater. I am using trial and error to arrive at the concentration which will do the trick without harming the plants.
Once I find the right concentration I obviously want to be able to repeat it and therefore need a method of measuring it. I presume I need to measure the specific gravity and bought a hydrometer but it is intended for use by home wine-makers and is not sensitive enough for my purpose.
Can anyone tell me where I can get a suitably sensitive hydrometer or suggest some alternative method; I've tried my conductivity meter but this doesn't help
Thanks in anticipation
Len Handley

From: TONY GARTHWAITE
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] potassium permanganate
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007

The quantities of the potassium permanganate that you will be using who
will have no affect on the density of the water.

Though I do not use hydro culture myself, I would think that the
quantities of liquid that you use would be so small and that your best
bet would be to make a solution of potassium permanganate and which you
would call your stock solution (this may be one teaspoonful in one
litre ) and then add a known volume of stock solution to a known volume
of rainwater. It is easy to add more in small quantities.

Another contributor to this forum may be able to indicate quantities,
but I use 'a pinch' in about 10 gallons of rain water (50 Litres)

Forget about specific gravity, even as a technologist, I cannot think of
an instrument that would be that sensitive to detect the difference, it
would be so miniscule!

By the way my green glass is not returning after starting the Pot
permanganate, so thanks to whoever started this trail!!

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] potassium permanganate
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007

You dont need to be that accurate in the amount of Potassium permanganate. Just add a small pinch (wear gloves), every couple of months. If you see a colour it will be a very pale pink.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] potassium permanganate
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007

I am interested in your idea , it would be a great deal cheaper than the
Physan I use ( approx £90 per gallon.) !.

1. Measuring the initial concentration in gms per litre ( Or maybe make up a
stock solution, then measure in terms of dilution rate . same thing really ,
just a matter of convenience, )

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] potassium permanganate
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007

Len,
In the main I grow Phals. Potted in Stones and standing in about 5 cm of water, usually rain water. I use half a teaspoon of PP per gallon and all my pants are fine. I have used PP in water butts ect for many years as did my father before me. My father used call it CONDIES CRYSTALS. Visually the colour of the water should be a pale pinky purple. I have a wine makers type of specific gravity metre and even at a strong, deep purple coloured strength there is no detectable indication. The pale pink colour I suggest gives me a reading of 140 ppm.I have a Rain Water Butt and as the mix is diluted by rain, I add some crystals to adjust the strength visually. I have watered all sorts of pot plants with it in my time and with no ill effects.
I trust this is of assistance to you.

That was sure a very nice piece of information to read and take on board, especially as your dad had used it.

Although I do not as yet have any trouble with my three rain-water butts, I will ask you to tell me if you think I should use it?

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Slugs again, copper tape − Aluminum?
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007

Folks, thanks so much for your previous responses on slugs. The copper tape seems to be working, it is very hard to get here in Costa Rica.

Aluminum? it has very similar properties to copper, any techies out there? what makes the copper work?

From: LEONARD HANDLEY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] potassium permanganate
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007

Thanks to everyone for their comments, especially to Ron, to whom I address
the following question: With what ,or on what, do you get a reading of
140ppm ? Or is it from a calculation ? Does anyone know at what ppm the PP
would harm the plants ? I don't particularly want the PP in all my rain
water, just that in which I stand the orchid pots. Len

Ron Bower wrote:
> Len, In the main I grow Phals. Potted in Stones and standing in
> about 5 cm of water, usually rain water. I use half a teaspoon of PP
> per gallon and all my pants are fine. I have used PP in water butts ect
> for many years as did my father before me. My father used call it
> CONDIES CRYSTALS. Visually the colour of the water should be a pale
> pinky purple. I have a wine makers type of specific gravity metre and
> even at a strong, deep purple coloured strength there is no detectable
> indication. The pale pink colour I suggest gives me a reading of 140
> ppm.I have a Rain Water Butt and as the mix is diluted by rain, I add
> some crystals to adjust the strength visually. I have watered all sorts
> of pot plants with it in my time and with no ill effects. I trust this
> is of assistance to you.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] P. of P.
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007

Hello Rocky,
If your water buts are the kind that do not let in light you should not have use PP to keep them clear. I have one old 5 gallon wine fomenter which I use as a overflow, It is translucent so I cover it with a black plastic bag. My Butt is not translutiant but I keep the PP solution to about 150ppm so as to save me having to test each canful when watering the plants. Also when it rains, as it is at this moment, the solution is weakened. Generally I just go by the colour as the strength above the 150ppm is not critical but below that the algae will appear after a few days, depending on the brightness of the sun ect.

From: Geoff Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Slugs again, copper tape − Aluminum?
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007

I have two notions ; 1 − I assume it is the conductivity − so the wet slug
( all slugs are wet, on their "foot" anyway, makes good electrical contact
and gets a "thrill" ( shock) Like those schoolboy experiments making a wet
battery ? remember ?

The problem with copper is that it does corrode, but still has some
effectiveness even when it has.

Aluminium is also a conductor and also corrodes, but seems less useful as a
conductor- at least in terms of making contact − when it has corroded .
Maybe the conductivity of Coper salts is better , relatively , than that of
aluminium salts.

2: copper is poisonous to one and all − its just a matter of degree how
much the animal/plant can stand . It isn't good for humans − as a lad in a
factory handling copper sheet I was made to wear gloves all the time and
drink milk.and that was long before Health and Safety reared its **** head
( fill in the asterisks yourself according to your own ideas). I don't
think slugs get to be issued with gloves . Slugs don't seem to mind
aluminium − else how do they crawl over greenhouse glazing bars ? Now if
you made the greenhouse out of copper − there's an idea !

From: Theta
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Slugs again, copper tape − Aluminum?
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007

I'm fairly certain that the copper + slug electricity or the essence of
ionic exchange as in a battery. Not sure whether aluminum would have a
similar effect. Copper is used in hobby-crafting too. I got mine at a
local arts+crafts store and used rubber cement to hold it down.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-29
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2007 Archived Messages

8—14 August