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2007 Archived Messages


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MONTHDATEDATEDATEDATEMONTHDATEDATEDATEDATE
January 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 February 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-28
March 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 April 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
May 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 June 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
July 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 August 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
September 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 October 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
November 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 December 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31

1—7 April

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] dendrobium
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 09:20

Bhotplant@aol.com wrote:

> Help i have Dendrobium kingianum var silcocks but cannot find info on
> it, its in bloom very perfumed and pure white,can anyone help?

There is 'silcockii' not 'silcocks'. A quick Google threw up quite a few
links, the most interesting of which was from the OGD
(http://www.mail-archive.com/orchids@orchidguide.com/msg07726.html)

Regards,

--

Tricia

If you ate pasta and antipasta, would you still be hungry?

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Life span of orchids.
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 09:10

Mornin' all,

From yet another dull and quite windy day down in the forest, and the wind is coming from the north east, and that means 'nasty'!

My subject, 'Life span of orchids'. My friend and I were discussing how long certain plants and shrubs last that we grow in our gardens, and I said that I have never seen any book that has a list of plants and the life span of them. Recently we both dug up and disposed of some quite old shrubs. So, when you think of it we all have to dies some day or other, and plants are no different.

So, maybe when we all think about it and hopefully put some information into the 'Club's' files that we may not be so annoyed or disappointed when we have an orchid die on us.

You may remember me telling of a couple of my plants that I have had for over twenty five years, but they are the long lived type. Some I believe have a much shorter life.

I would be very pleased to hear what different members have to say.

Regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Question time.
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 09:30

Hi all,

Just wondered what people from different parts of the world use as an 'Orchid compost'?

In Europe where I live the commonly accepted compost is that made up from the bark of pine and fir trees that are continuously cut down for trade use.

The same goes for North America.

But what about Asia and Australia? Do they have vast forests of Pine and Fir?

What do they use?

Rocky.

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From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] dendrobium
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 09:30

In a message dated 01/04/2007 09:21:50 GMT Standard Time,
tricia@madwesties.demon.co.uk writes:

(http://www.mail-archive.com/orchids@orchidguide.com/msg07726.html)

many thank it explains quite well

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Alert
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:15

I've heard of this, but under the name "the senior moment".
And I am also told that two fingers of malt ( not the treacle-like
substance, but the liquid gold sold under names such as "The Talisker" or
"Macallan" ) − taken religiously at bedtime and not too often at other times
too , is a great help . Or at least one does not then lie awake worrying
about it.

Geoff

Tricia Garner wrote on 01 April 2007:

> Hi folks,

> I have just been told about an unusual computer virus and asked to pass on
> the information in case you haven't heard about it.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Question time.
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 00:05

Hi Rocky

I can't speak for all growers in Australia, but pine bark seems to be the most used orchid media here. And yes, there are heaps of pine plantations. We have recently been introduced to coconut husk chips which have only just become available here in the west. It seems to help the orchids grow better than pine bark. It must have some natural fertilisers or something. They are part of a nut after all, and nuts contain lots of goodies.

I guess I have seen orchids growing in a whole range of orchid media, and I guess its much the same in most countries.

My experience with orchid media in Asia is very limited but it usually consists of nothing. They hang their orchids in empty pots or baskets and leave them alone.

Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re; Tricia's alert and Geoff's senior moments
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 00:35

Hi Tricia and Geoff,
Being very quick on the uptake and, even in retirement, knowing to the month what day it is, I recognise the April first significance of an email.
I wish I could be as sure with others from Bankiulea Alavy, Mr Olenkafacchetti, United Cargo Solutions, Raeann Tremain, Fonzy Rarama, Donna Mock and Gretta. They offer me everything from spravilius poedinok (we all need some of that!), making my fat friends envious of me (I guess they already are!) and millionaire training courses (very public spirited these people or is this how they became millionaires!) Somebody, somewhere, sometime must be daft enough to open these emails!

Is it April fools' day all the year round I wonder?

What I really need is immortal orchids in constant bloom. I believe they're made in China from artificial silk and even with non-evaporating plastic 'water' droplets on 'em! They're even grown 'hydro'ponically in crystal clear algae-free polymer Geoff! Saw one this lunchtime in a glass on a pub table. Greenfly 'n' molluscs hate 'em.

Isn't this also the silly season for the ritual of shading out the sunshine that we've waited all winter for?
Who needs April 1st?

Silly season's greetings to all,

John

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Moss and Cattleya Bowringiana
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:00

Hi Ron,

Ah, my fault then :-)

Still, it is really the same problem − the sphagnum moss one can buy
commercially has not been harvested in a sustainable way, it is simply
the top layer of the bogs that are being dismantled around the world.

Fortunately it is very easy to grow your own, as I found out. All you
need is a little, homemade 'pond'. Mine literally started with a pinch
of sphagnum plants, and now it is crawling out over the edges of the
container − they don't need feeding (in fact I think they can't tolerate
it), only water. And they attract frogs − my bucketful had three of them
last summer! I'll be happy to mail a couple of my sphagnum plants to
anybody in the UK who'd like to try, but I don't know how well they
tolerate this.

/jan

Ron Newstead wrote:
> Jan
> I got the impression that Geoff was talking about sphagnum moss, not
> peat
> bogs.
>
> Ron
>

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Rainwater.
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:50

In view of Tony's reply, may I pose the suggestion that the contents of the water falling as rain and of course humidity may hold an explanation?
Gordon.

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From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Moss and Cattleya Bowringiana
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:55

Jan show us a photo of your set-up please for the pond of sphagnum.
Gordon.

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From: Silvio a Beccara
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Question time.
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 09:15

Hi Roger,

I grow most of my Phals (the ones not mounted) in pure sphagnum moss. Roots
grow like crazy and are very healty, and leaves, too.
As for Catts, I use coarse pine bark.
Regards

Silvio − Italy

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Silvio a Beccara
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] For Dennis and Silvio
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:05

Tricia,

your request sounds strange to me, since having a reply-to address is quite
standard in any email setup. Do we really need to remove it?
Silvio

> Sorry to be a nuisance but I see in recent messages you are both
> (unintentionally, of course!) setting reply addresses in your mail. As has
> been mentioned, this causes problems for the mailing list server so please
> would you remove them?

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] For Dennis and Silvio
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:00

Silvio,

Yes, it would help if you could remove it for messages to the list. The
list server cannot add a reply-to for the list address if the message
already contains one, which means that any responses which are generated by
clicking reply (instead of starting a completely new message) will be sent
to the original poster, not to the list. Which then results in the
'responder' asking me why their message has not appeared...

If it is a problem to specify that mailing list messages should not contain
reply addresses, perhaps Geoff's suggestion to always start a new message
and just paste in the relevant part to which you are responding would be
best for now, until I can find a way to deal with it.

Tricia

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re; Tricia's alert and Geoff's senior moments
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:00

John, Well said, congrats. Yes, some people apparently think that every day is a April fools day, and to some it is. Ronbow.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Moss and Cattleya Bowringiana
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:15

On 02 Apr, in article ,
jan wrote:
> Hi Ron,

> Ah, my fault then :-)

> Still, it is really the same problem − the sphagnum moss one can buy
> commercially has not been harvested in a sustainable way, it is simply
> the top layer of the bogs that are being dismantled around the world.

I understand that is not the case for New Zealand sphagnum moss. Apparently
it is sustainable.

--

Tricia

Don't be irreplaceable − if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Moss and Cattleya Bowringiana
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:40

Thanks, Trish!

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Dendrobium kingianum silcockii − cultivars − types − variants and confusion
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:45

May I add more to Geoff's words of wisdom about 'cultivar' and 'variety' ?
It might be worth adding 'type' which is equally or even more misused, vague and confusing.

Of course, there is the proper scientifically defined use of 'type' as in 'type species' or 'type specimen'.
Otherwise, apart from finding the obscure sil(cockii cocks?) name at http://www.sborchid.com/OrchidOfTheDay/Den-kingianum-Silkockii.htm, the word when used in a casual way to indicate a difference that may, or may not be a cultivar, subspecies or variety seems pointless except as an admission of ignorance of what the thing is! Even the scientific 'insult' of using lower case leading letters for names like silcockii (instead of Silcockii) would tell us something if we could be confident that the label was scientifically accurate. Count the errors in the site above! (but I'll bet the price is correct!)

Unfortunately, when scientists invent new words, they are accused of using jargon. When they use words that already have a vernacular sense but then define them more precisely, they are accused of hijacking the language for their own purposes. In the immortal words of Eric Morecambe "There's no answer to that!"

If ever there was a need for proof of the value of consistency and abiding by the rules of nomenclature, surely this is it.
John

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark R
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Question time.
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:45

All my Phals are in pure sphagnum moss too. As far as I can tell, it's
the perfect medium for them. The rest are either mounted or in fir
bark, sponge rock, and charcoal.

Mark, indoor grower in northern Canada

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From: James H
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Moss and Cattleya Bowringiana
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:00

I dug a pond in my parents yard when i was 14 and had enough pond liner left
over to make a small bog on the side of the pond with pond water flooding it
so the moss was constantly wet.
I went into the woods on a nearby mountain and collected a piece of bog moss
(sphagnum of the variety we have here)
within one year my piece had completly covered the bog and then started to
grow numerous native plants, bog cranberry labrador tea and a miniture
rhotodendron(sp?). i also had a couple sundews and a pitcher plant that
started from the collected moss.
this bog really is amazing and attracts alot of dragonflys and other
creatures to the pond.
i found a plant ontop of a very high mountain when i was hiking once and
there were thousands of them in a big feild, they were just comming up in
august as the snow had just melted that high up,
i dug one up and kept it in a used food bag in my backpack, i later planted
it in the bog and it lived for 4 years but never bloomed. It wasnt till i
was older that i realised that what i had dug up was actually an orchid. It
never flowered for me and died when i was away on vacation and the pond
evaporated enough that the bog dried up. it was +45C all week and nobody
was home to look after the gardens, vegetables and many flowers died that
week.
i cant seem to find a picture of that specific orchid right now but it was a
type of slipper orchid that grew alternating leaves along a 2ft stock and
then a flower spike from the center with a single yellow slipper.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Life span of orchids − what's the oldest you are aware of?.
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:50

Hi Rocky,
Isn't this another of those questions where "it all depends what you mean by . . ."?
I'm sure you're aware of plants like bristlecone pines that exceed 5000 years and sequoias and west coast redwoods manage a few thousand as may our own oaks. More humble plants like the creosote bush (see http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id221) make it past 10,000 (even older than Geoff!) but the tissue that's alive now is an incremental replacement of what went before (in the bush that is).

When it comes to orchid plants there are modest references to 60 years and more.(http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid1006042013047) but it may be that members of a forum (like this) can give examples they are personally aware of.

I seem to recollect that there are clones (biologically the 'same' plant) from well back in the 19thC but if you split a plant are each of the parts 'the same plant' in your definition? After all, had the original not been split it might have died.

Certainly, there are examples of 20-year-plus examples of orchids like Coelogyne cristata.
Maybe we could ask everyone "What is the oldest orchid you are personally aware of' (That would be a more tactful question than "What is the oldest orchid you have grown?")

Could be a useful item for our respective Orchid Soc newsletters.

John

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: question time
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:05

Rocky, as Tony has mentioned, Pine Bark is the major component of the mixes used. Coconut is or was being used in greater amounts recently BUT the quality is still not up to speed. One big grower even produced a whole Powerpoint presentation on its uses and success. Well, this grower is now going back to bark cause he LOST too many plants. Zygopetalums seem to do very well and some Cyms. I know there is a company attempting to supply clean, reduced salt material. By the time this happens it may be too late to establish the market again if people turn off coconut as they are now with all the problems.
Roy.

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From: Max Redman
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Question time.
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:25

Hi Rocky,
I guess it all depends on where you live in this vast country. For many years the main types of compost used for orchids consisted of basically three types. One was used for mainly cymbidiums and was made by composting small pine bark,wheat chaff,dolomite ,blood and bone,often chicken manure and at times instead of bark a hardwood sawdust or shavings was used. This was composted for several weeks turning weekly then fortnightly after the first six weeks. Used after about twelve weeks.
The second was various sizes of straight pine bark used mainly for things such as cattleyas.laelias etc.
The third was mainly sphagnum moss. This has been taken over by peat and perlite used in the ratio of about 6 to 1, Six parts of perlite in various sizes.
Now the main growing mix seems to be different sizes of coconut fibre. This is mainly mixed with stones of about 5-10mm.
This is basically what I am using and have been over the last twelve months with remarkable growth results.
Max.

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From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re; Orchid 'composts'
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:00

In connection with recent correspondence about coconut husk, conifer bark and other 'composts' may I get back to my hobbyhorse of accurate definitions?

I wonder, when we are discussing the media into/onto which we put epiphytic orchids, are we really talking about a 'compost'? Most of the expert growers in my O.S. repeatedly warn of the dangers of 'nutrient' build-up and the increasing concentration of 'salts' if their plants' supporting media aren't regularly flushed through.

Also, many growers use near-inert materials (quartz rock, pearlite, acid volcanic tuff or pumice, synthetic materials made from fly-ash or fired clay, rock wool etc., etc.. and rely on the nutrients being supplied by the liquid they are watered with. Again, I refer to Geoff and his passion for (dare I say?) an 'aqueous compost' which would be an odd term indeed!!!

Are those advocating biological materials such as tree-fern, bark or coconut husk etc., arguing that their plants derive nutrients from these materials or that these materials are sufficiently inert not to cause harm? Or perhaps that they do cause harm by releasing tannins, oils or other unwanted substances?

Am I correct in thinking that a compost is a mix of mineral matter (say sand and clay) plus humus (organic materials from which natural nutrients might be derived) and having appropriate properties of drainage/water retention? Such an aggregate may be relevant for terrestrial orchids but it was my impression that for most epiphytes we need a supporting medium that (perhaps) will retain moisture (therefore porous) without chemical reactions that might be detrimental. Or maybe one that will allow water to drain through (permeable) with the danger of drying out quickly?.

Are we concerned, therefore, with the physical properties of bark, tree-fern, coconut husk etc. more than their nutrient value? If so, should we be referring to them as 'compost'?

Although I am very interested in orchids it is my wife who grows 'em but I am fascinated in their variation, evolution and diversity. It is, therefore, with genuine curiosity that I raise these matters. I have a sneaking suspicion that the same words are being used with very different meanings by those arguing from different sides.

In other words, are we discussing true composts or supporting media?

John − (Having lit blue touch paper, retires to a safe distance)

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From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Maxillaria assistance
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 19:15

The Maxillaria National Collection is held by Dr. M.McIllmurray, and his
e-mail address is michael.mcillmurray@btopenworld.com

He is very taxonomically minded − unlike some Nat.Coll holders you know -
but I won't defend myself here . But try him.

Geoff

Dennis Read wrote on 06 April

> Back in 1994 at the March RHS Orchid Show I purchased a highly scented
> orchid named as Maxillaria ubatuban the front and side pictures are
> attached. The outside of the sepals and petals are yellow wit maroon
> patches, the insides are yellow and the patches can be seen through. The lip
> is white with maroon patches and the column is maroon. It is highly scented.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Heating.
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 19:30

Hi David,

As you are going to grow orchids from the intermediate range I would suggest that you use a type of electric heater that I and quite a few of my friends use.

Just about the cheapest electric household fan heater that you can buy from your local D.I.Y. store or any other outlet.

Then of course get a nice low cost but reliable thermostat. If you want the name and supplier of the type that I use then just ask me.

Kind regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Maxillaria.
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 19:35

Hi Dennis,

That is a lovely plant, and I just love the clear smart foliage. Must be your soft water!!!

When I first looked at the photos I was sure that it was Maxillaria picta. But then is my answer just too easy ???!!!

Dying to find out if others agree with me.

Envious, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Maxillaria assistance
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:10

For what it's worth, I looked up Maxillaria ubatubana (note the ending -ana) in Botanica's Orchids. Not the most authoritative text but pretty good and reliable usually.
The species is attributed to Hoehne (a Brazilian who has also worked on other groups − I have his Aristolochia memoir). Apparently your plant is restricted to Brazil in the states of Espirito Santo, Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo. It grows on trees and mossy rocks at "moderate" altitudes. It flowers in autumn and requires heavy watering while actively growing.

The accompanying illustration seems very close to your photos. I can copy it if nobody comes up with better info.

You will find the plant listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Maxillaria_species

Incidentally, for all its faults, Wickipedia gives species listings for many orchid genera and often the particular species isn't listed in a search. So it seems to be with this one.

Hope this info is of use but do note that I am not "a knowledgeable grower". In fact I learn as much by exercises such as looking for this one as anything!
The only claim to my being knowledgeable about this species is that the ending of the specific name looked wrong to me, hence my note that it is -ana and not -an.

Good luck
John

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Maxillaria assistance
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:35

Dennis,

I notice that the spelling in your attachments is different from that in your email text. Could that be the reason why no search engine found the species?
I just had another go with the correct spelling and came up with the following locations. So there isn't much doubt about the name. One of the sites (the first I list I seem to recall) has pretty good photo(s) and so you may even be able to convince yourself that your specimen is correctly labelled.
Maybe you could even improve your Spanish in some of these sites!

http://www.dalholl.hpg.ig.com.br/generos/Maxillaria/Maxillaria.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-maxillaria-species
Maxillaria ubatubana Hoehne, Arquivos de Bot#ica do Estado de S# Paulo, N.S. 2 (4): 88. 1947. Sintipo: Brasil, S# Paulo, Alto da Serra de Ubatuba, leg. F.C. Hoehne s.n., 1.V.1946, SP 53919. in http://www.ibot.sp.gov.br/Herbario/ORCHIDACEAE/ORCHIDACEAE.htm
http://www.agricultura.gov.br/images/MAPA/cultivares/RNC_07_08_2006_180.htm
http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/List_of_plants_of_Atlantic_Forest_vegetation_of_Brazil

Have fun

John

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Maxillaria assistance
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:35

I bought it in Rio de Janeiro under the name of M. ubatubana.
It was a tiny seedling and it never started to grow und eventually
it passed away.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re; Orchid 'composts'
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:45

Definitely not composts in the common sense. Maybe some terrestrials
might be happy in a kind of compost but, for all epyphytes it is
supporting media. And because most orchid growers do not have the
perfect growing conditions, humidity too low, the supporting media
must hold some water to keep the plants going.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

John Stanley wrote on Tuesday, April 03:

> In connection with recent correspondence about coconut husk, conifer
> bark and other 'composts' may I get back to my hobbyhorse of accurate
> definitions?

> I wonder, when we are discussing the media into/onto which we put
> epiphytic orchids, are we really talking about a 'compost'? Most of
> the expert growers in my O.S. repeatedly warn of the dangers of
> 'nutrient' build-up and the increasing concentration of 'salts' if
> their plants' supporting media aren't regularly flushed through.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: what's going on?
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:20

The list offerings have become more and more post-modern in their presentation in the last 3 months. My postings appear only sporadically, sometimes months after I send them, responses to solutions appear without the original problem or it's solution. It reminds me of that Ronnie Corbett sketch when his Mastermind special subject was "Answering questions before they are asked".

It certainly is making it difficult to participate in the group or even make much sense of those who can.

I have been keeping an eye on my other emails and this does not appear to be happening − what's the problem?

(Sent on April 7th)

Andy

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