2007 mailing list messages

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From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Roy's Cattleya.
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:00

To Rocky, Andy, Geoff and Erica, many thanks for your help. Erica has picked it in one. The photo supplied definitely depicts mine to a tee except for the lip colour which is understandable. Thankyou Erica, this has cleared up a question I have had for years.
Rocky, I live in the Western part of Victoria Australia. All of my plants are watered with rain water. The white marks you see is 'fungicide', I like to spray a little around when the humidity is high in the spring/summer.
Geoff, if the regulations weren't so stong in being able to send you a piece of the plant I would. A quick check suggests I could get about 12+, multi caned pieces out of it.
For what it is worth, you may have seen on your news services, the Eastern part of Victoria has been burning for 50 days now and the size of the burnt area is now about 1.5 million hectares or 2 something million acres. Only for the rain we have had this last week, the fires would be still going. Last year at about this time we faced the same problem, fire. We had a 25 km fire front heading straight for our home, only for the great work by firefighters and helicopters dropping water, everything was saved. If anyone would like some pics or maps of the current fires or pics from our fires, let me know and I will post some for you.
Once again thankyou all for your help.
Roy.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Roys Catt
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:25

For what its worth, the cross that Erica highlighted as a match for mine,
C. intermedia x warscewiczii C. Intermedia-Gigas.
This name was registered in 1904 by Colman.
Just looked it up.
Roy.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Humidity
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:00

I would think that one of the electronic misting devices would be a good
possibility with your greenhouse/growing space. Try Simply Control ( they
advertise in the Orchid Review, or I'll give you details if stuck)
Temperature control is very difficult in a small space , the bigger the
space, the easier it gets , because of the buffer effect of a large volume
of air.
So , unless you can sit on a chair nearby , and rush to draw blinds back
when the sun goes in , and draw them over the glass again when the sun comes
out , open the ventilator , and probably the door too , when the temperature
rises and half an hour later shut them again , and go on doing this for many
months of the year , you may simply have to leave vents open in the spring
summer and autumn , and the door too in the summer .
( Because of the available choices , you must avoid baking the plants when
the temperature rises over 90 F − as it easily does jn full sun in a
glasshouse on almost any day in many months of the year if there is now
wind, especially.
Which means that you need virtually continuous humidification to stand any
chance of getting this factor right.
But don't despair , many people grow great orchids without getting humidity
right , but odontoglossums, and other thin leaved orchids, are more fussy in
this respect than many others.
Geoff

> Hello,
>
> I would like some advice..... I have a small green house ( 6x8 ) and am
> growing Odontoglossums,
> Zygopetalum and Dendrobium. I heat it to 10 C min. The Humidity Control is
> non existant ( apart
> from damping down ) and I am looking into getting a Humidifying System,-
> Humidistat and Spray
> Nozzles etc.
> Has anyone any experience of these? Are they worth getting? Or are there
> any alternatives?
> I would be very grateful for any advice. My orchids are not very happy !
>
> Many Thanks, Helen

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hybrids.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:10

It is very difficult to tell Peter. I have several that look vaguely similar − though the one in your photo has different proportions in the flower parts − I suspect the flowers are quite a bit smaller than in the one I posted. They are about 6cms across.

> The plant in question could be Dtps. Purple Gem. I attach a picture of my
> plant which is not as good as the one sent earlier. The sepals and petals are
> much fuller and the colour seems to be more intense.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Drips from the roof.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:45

My glasshouse roof has the large type bubble polythene sheeting on the inside of it. Although I do like using this item, I have one moan about it.

Recently, during the spell of very windy and thoroughly wet couple of weeks or more I find that the condensation from the bubble cap insulation does now and then drip onto my orchids.

I feel that this is unavoidable and I do put up with it, even the loss of just one Phalaenopsis, due no doubt to water in the crown.

However, if anyone can suggest a remedy, or maybe adding something to the bubble cap, then I will be very interested to hear what you have to say.

I did try just a layer of fleece inside the roof, but many of you may know that after a couple of years the fleece just disintegrates.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Den. fimbriatum var oculatum
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:05

I was very envious when, a coulple of weeks ago, Geoff
was talking about the spikes on his Den. as I have two
plants of this particular dendrobium, and had not seen
anything that resembled even the slightest intention
of producing any inflorescences.

Yesterday, as I was going over some of my plants, I
noticed one of them (which was a plant bought in
flower last year) has a few protuberances on the top
of some of the canes (both old and newly matured
ones). They are too small to predict an inflorescence,
and they could well be just keikis, but if I have any
chances of ensuring they turn into blooms, I would
like to know.

Does anyone in the group have any advice as to what
should I do (if anything) to make sure they do not
turn into keikis?

From: Tina Stagg
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Humidity
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:15

I think you may be better, in a small greenhouse, to use spray lines for
humidity rather than a fogger. You would have better control over where the
water goes. I use both systems, in different greenhouses, the spray misters
being on an adjustable light controller and the fogger on a humidistat.
I have occasionally had problems with the fogger shorting the electric fan
heater but never, in many years, has this happened with the misters.
You can choose where to put the spray lines − I have mine over the plants so
that I can abandon everything for a couple of weeks but some people prefer
to have them under the benches, wetting the floor.
I lost most of my lean-to greenhouse in last week's gales so am sitting here
awaiting the insurers.
Are orchids more trouble than they are worth???
Tina

From: Tina Stagg
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Drips from the roof.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:20

I don't get much condensation using twin-wall polycarbonate. It does need taking off every few years and giving a thorough clean but otherwise is very good − apart from the expense!
Tina

> My glasshouse roof has the large type bubble polythene sheeting on the
> inside of it. Although I do like using this item, I have one moan
> about it.

> Recently, during the spell of very windy and thoroughly wet couple of
> weeks or more I find that the condensation from the bubble cap
> insulation does now and then drip onto my orchids.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Roy's Cattleya.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:50

Australian fires often make the news in UK , but I have not seen anything
lately so had not realised that you have this problem currently , which
must be a terrible worry.

As to sending a piece of the plant , no, I wouldn't ask anyone to break the
law . I will complain about it ( the law) and sometimes (always ? ) bore
anyone who listens to me , but at the end of the day I have to obey ,
however reluctantly and recommend anyone else to do the same.

And if you are too hot , think about us , even here in the warmest place in
UK ( probably)the mercury registered 2 degrees C. this afternoon when I was
trying to do some tidying up in the garden , and the weather forecasters say
' that's nothing , wait until next week , it will be like Siberia here ,
but by the way we are in for a hotter and better summer than last year' .
I'm planning Cannas for my front garden , when I was young, they were plants
for a conservatory or ones seen and not recognised if we reached the South
of France.

> To Rocky, Andy, Geoff and Erica, many thanks for your help. Erica has picked
> it in one. The photo supplied definitely depicts mine to a tee except for
> the lip colour which is understandable. Thankyou Erica, this has cleared up
> a question I have had for years.
> Rocky, I live in the Western part of Victoria Australia. All of my plants
> are watered with rain water. The white marks you see is 'fungicide', I like
> to spray a little around when the humidity is high in the spring/summer.
> Geoff, if the regulations weren't so stong in being able to send you a piece
> of the plant I would. A quick check suggests I could get about 12+, multi
> caned pieces out of it.
> For what it is worth, you may have seen on your news services, the Eastern
> part of Victoria has been burning for 50 days now and the size of the burnt
> area is now about 1.5 million hectares or 2 something million acres. Only
> for the rain we have had this last week, the fires would be still going.
> Last year at about this time we faced the same problem, fire. We had a 25 km
> fire front heading straight for our home, only for the great work by
> firefighters and helicopters dropping water, everything was saved. If anyone
> would like some pics or maps of the current fires or pics from our fires,
> let me know and I will post some for you.
> Once again thankyou all for your help.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Drips from the roof.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:55

Put the bubble plastic on the outside of the greenhouse ; the effect is 100%
the same, except that the drips then go outside the greenhouse.

It's what I have been doing for years , ever since I realised this ; and it
also has the advantage of making insulation easy even in houses which are
difficult inside , because of struts etc. I use pieces which stretch from
ground to ridge and down to ground on the other side, and tie them down to
hooks I have pop-rivetted to the framework ( use a batten at each end of
each strip, with the plastic wrapped around several times and stapled.)

And on this subject , I need to renew mine , which is several years old ,
and am having difficulty buying a 50metre long roll of 1.5metre wide , of
the right kind ( large bubbles , two sheets sandwiching the bubbles) , at
least , I have found it at several places in Yorkshire and Cornwall who say
I am outside their delivery area , and at two other places where they
normally sell little bits , and want to charge me the same £2+ per meter as
when they are cutting to size. Any suggestions for suppliers ?

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Den. fimbriatum var oculatum
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:25

I have grown several plants of D.fimbriatum ( usually the variety
'oculatum') for 40 + years , and have rarely seen keikis. They do it
occasionally , but nowhere near as often as say nobile or kingianum − where
it almost seems like the default state !.
So, my advice is- two Joss sticks, cross fingers, and stand back and wait.

> I was very envious when, a coulple of weeks ago, Geoff
> was talking about the spikes on his Den. as I have two
> plants of this particular dendrobium, and had not seen
> anything that resembled even the slightest intention
> of producing any inflorescences.

> Yesterday, as I was going over some of my plants, I
> noticed one of them (which was a plant bought in
> flower last year) has a few protuberances on the top
> of some of the canes (both old and newly matured
> ones). They are too small to predict an inflorescence,
> and they could well be just keikis, but if I have any
> chances of ensuring they turn into blooms, I would
> like to know.

> Does anyone in the group have any advice as to what
> should I do (if anything) to make sure they do not
> turn into keikis?

Has any of you had experience with these people, the Orchid Seedbank
Project (OSP): http://members.cox.net/lmlauman/osp/index.html ? I found
this site a while ago, looking for information about how to make the
substrate for germinating orchid seed, and there is an awful lot of
information about that at this site, but not much else. I wonder if they
are still trading? Apparently they did at one time and sent out seeds of
a number of species.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Den. fimbriatum var oculatum
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:20

I have one plant of Den fimbriatum v Oculatum growing in the Paph/Phrag house ( the only place I have to grow it ) and there is One keiki on it. The two newest canes are about 30 inches long, unflowered, 5 older canes with very few if any leaves and 5 new growths at various lengths. I haven't seen a flower either. I believe that the plant is growing too well. Its not getting enough cold in winter or drying out time. Many years ago my father grew it and in a cold glass house. It used to last in flower for months.
If I can offer and take my own advice, dry the plant out and chill it slightly in winter and if all goes well it should flower.
( optimusts, don't you love them ! )

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] OSP
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:20

Hi Jan,
If I remember correctly the person in charge has a full time day job is and
only able to deal with queries when he has time.
Gordon.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Drips from the roof.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:10

Geoff,
LBS. Page 135. 24 or 48 inch X 100 metres £34 0r £67 per 1 roll cheaper for
more.
Why worry about breaking the law, now no more jail the prisons are full. If
I wanted to send or receive a plant, now I would.
Perhaps better not discussed.
Ronbow.

From: Silvio a Beccara
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] OSP
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:45

bought seeds a few times from them, germinated them with very good results.
They have a wonderful variety and are honest about germination rates.
I don't know whether they still do exchange, but usually they would do for
species they don't have in their list already.

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Drips from the roof.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:50

My new orchid house has 'glass' of double-glazed polycarbonate and has
humidity permanently controlled at 65%. I have never had any condensation
problems, even before I installed a small fan just to give a bit of movement
in the air.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Den. fimbriatum var oculatum
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:00

That is the problem! I grow inside a flat, so not much
cold. And then, this year, I completely forgot to
chill out my dens, so they stayed for all summer and
all of the autumn inside and then, when I remembered
they would benefit from being left outside for a few
weeks, it was already too late!

I did give them all a very dry rest period, where no
water was given for about a month, and then, if any
did shrivel too much, a light misting was applied...
It must have done them good, as one of my den.
nobile-type hybrids is looking good with loads of buds
along a few canes, and den kingianum throwing what
looks like a spike (too early to say yet), but I have
never flowered den fimbriatum var oculatum before. It
was already bought in flower, and I have only grown it
for a year, so I don't really know much about it,
yet... The other one I have, I have grown for at least
three years, but it was too small to flower when I
bought it, and I don't think it has reached the
flowering size quite yet!

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Den. fimbriatum var oculatum and other friends...
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:00

Herewith a pic of my D.fimbriatum , taken in situ ( do your grow your
orchids in situ ? , sorry- I have a strange sense of humour ) in the
greenhouse, and rather surrounded by other plants . But I went through that
(top) centre bench only yesterday , cleaning and tidying and re-arranging
and I did not want to do half an hour's work to get the plant down to take
this snap.

You will see that the flowers are only half way up the plant , they are on
the older canes which are only 60 + cm high. Currently 8 spikes still out
and I to come, the earlier one's now gone over from this year's flowering.
Not the best form of fimbriatum I have ever seen , or maybe that's my
culture. . More recent canes , since I changed culture ( switched to
hydroculture) are 1 metre to 1.5 metre high and presumably will give better
flowers too ?

Resting was putting the plant in the garden in September and October ,
bringing back in when the forecast said night temperatures down to 5 degrees
C. which was fairly early in November this year. I would like to leave it
out longer , or at least keep it cool longer so as to delay flowering ,
which started , or at least buds emerged, fairly soon after bringing it back
in , but I have nowhere suitable. Plans for next autumn have included the
idea of swathing in fleece, so as to be able to leave out a few more weeks,
but I'm nervous of taking risks with what is now getting towards a nice
specimen ( especially if the flower quality does improve ,and if it does'nt
, then wham- it's for the chop.)

Also sent is a pic of my Coelogyne mossiae, now in a 15inch pan , and this
year with 12 + spikes. The related C.cristata is often see this big ( or
bigger) and with far more spikes, but I have not seen C.mossiae at any show
that I can remember . I think that in time it may get to be covered with
flowers , it is still improving , year by year, and the nice thing is it
looks like this pic from all sides . The flowers are faintly lemon scented
and smaller and neater − more per spike too − than cristata. (My cristata
has developing spikes now − and is perhaps a month later for me − another
reason for growing both. Incidentally I bought the expensive "Mildenhall"
clone − Carter and Holmes, USA, via Laurence Hobbs , and also this plant -
an ordinary sib-cross seedling from that New Zealand guy who used to come to
shows with a fantastic range of species (J R was it , ? ) and this one had
better flowers, so I sold the Mildenhall clone.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Drips from the roof.
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:35

Folks, I have been reading the posts on Drips from the roof. Even if your not growing Phals, the drips can cause problems. I fixed the problem in my Paph / Phrag house easily.
I bought 2 el cheapo pedistal fans with 15inch diam, put them on the bench and wired down the base.
I adjusted the head slightly toward the roof and set on Medium ( for cooler days ) and High hot days. One each end of the house and on opposite sides.
I set them going and don't turn them off. They are cheap as I said. If I get 12 months or more out of them good, I can afford to replace. So far they have been going for 14 months.
The breeze thats put out is fairly gentle and the sort of breeze that Phals would like for that drying affect over the plants to stop Crown rot and circulates the air beautifully in the house which also eases/stops the mould build up.
Roy

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Den. fimbriatum var oculatum
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:25

This whole need for a dry cold rest with Dens kind of baffles me. I just bought a Den lodggeseii (sp?) that is in spike. The grower grew it in his sun room without a very cool rest (it probably got down to 15 or 16C at lowest), and he watered it regularly, yet it still spiked. The info I found on the plant said it needed a dry cold rest. I have several other dens that I am trying to do this with, but all of them are making new growths now, so I have to begin watering a bit to not lose them. They are not yet flowering, and most still have their leaves, but could it be that the rest that they did have will result in spikes at a later date, despite the fact that they are now making new growths and watering has resumed? I guess what I am really asking is should one see total leaf drop and bud initiation before resuming regular conditions and before new growth begins? I had no luck blooming my dens that are supposed to need a rest last year as I didn't get them cool or dry enough, but did give them all a 6 week cool dry spell (even though it went to the end of October -can't do that in my house). Haven't seen spikes yet but perhaps it is too early? Plus I have no idea if they are blooming size or not as I don't seem to be able to find info on how big a blooming plant is! My Den kingianum began to put out spikes which promptly dried up from the lack of water. When I started tiny sips of water, the keikies came. URGGG....
Cheers
Sharon

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Sobralia decora
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:55

This is my Sobralia decora which is flowering every year from about Chris
tmas
to the end of February. As with all the Sobralias it last just one day.
The picture was taken this afternoon at a temperature of 42 BA C. It is
extremely hot in Bloubergstrand at the moment, rather unusual.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fw: Sobralia decora
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:55

Peter, my S. decora looks very different then yours.
I have seen pictures that look like yours and just as
many looking like mine. Mine blooms in the fall
through the winter.
Mine is holding two seeds for some of the group that
requested them.
The Sobralias are at: http://togofcoralgables.com/Sobralia.aspx

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fw: Sobralia decora
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:00

Hi Peter,
We're envious of the orchid (Congratulations)
but even more envious of the 42 º C !
We're at about 0º C or less just now.
I don't suppose you could email us a few of your surplus º C?
John (from Crewe UK)

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Dendrobium fimbriatum
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:00

Sharon's story and questions about Dendrobium fimbriatum are about the same as mine were some years ago. Maybe that's why I do not have a great interest in Dendrobiums.

Sharon, I think that a lot of the trouble that we have with Dendrobium culture is just down to one fact, and that is that the cultural advice does not seem to be aware of the fact that us orchid lovers read the cultural advice and do not look at the WHOLE area where this orchid grows.

Hence: Dendrobium fimbriatum comes from, Himalayas, Burma, Thailand, Viet-Nam, Malay peninsula.

So, my advice TO MYSELF in the future, meaning starting this year is to treat my Dendrobiums as I think best for my growing conditions. Then if I follow what I see in regards to new growths etc. etc. then I may have some success.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Days without sunshine.
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:05

Especially us U.K. orchid buffs. Mornin' John.....so you are up at Crewe! Question is, just how many good days sunshine have we had since last November.

This is what I always believe is one of the most difficult things that us U.K. people have to battle against.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Drips from the roof.
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:15

> Folks, I have been reading the posts on Drips from the roof. Even if
> your not growing Phals, the drips can cause problems. I fixed the
> problem in my Paph / Phrag house easily.

> I bought 2 el cheapo pedistal fans with 15inch diam, put them on the
> bench and wired down the base.

> I adjusted the head slightly toward the roof and set on Medium ( for
> cooler days ) and High hot days. One each end of the house and on
> opposite sides. I set them going and don't turn them off. They are
> cheap as I said. If I get 12 months or more out of them good, I can
> afford to replace. So far they have been going for 14 months.

> The breeze thats put out is fairly gentle and the sort of breeze that
> Phals would like for that drying affect over the plants to stop Crown
> rot and circulates the air beautifully in the house which also
> eases/stops the mould build up.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Den. loddegesii
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:00

Sharon, I have found Den loddegesii will react in just the way you discribe. Some growers have continuous water and feeding in a warm area and it grows and flowers perfectly, other have to dry it out a bit BUT never too much or you WILL loose it. I wouldn't say it was in great need of cool periods.
Your Dend kingianum sounds like a typical kingi', some of the species or early out crosses through keikis at the drop of a hat. I would keep the water up to the plant more often than you appear to be but give it much more light. No food until you actually see that you have flower spikes, then add the food. This system may help but not guaranteed.
Its good to read up on how all plants grow in nature, temp, water,light etc but many will handle a wide variety of conditions under cultivation. Sometimes experimentation is required to find the best for the plant under your conditions, you may find it grows much easier that you think.
Roy

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Days without sunshine.
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:35

Roger, I am glad you brought this subject up. Since coming back from Ecuador last March I have been trying to analyse my growing conditions compared to there. I can keep the temperature as there. Humidity and moisture are the same but I cannot keep 12 hrs sun shine daily from 6 till 6. These last few days of sunshine have instigated growth on a few of my orchids but I can see no reasonable way of getting 12 hrs strong light every day. I beleive we compensate for lack of light by the use of fertiliser but that only helps if there is some growtH.
Any comments anyone.

> Especially us U.K. orchid buffs. Mornin' John.....so you are up at
> Crewe! Question is, just how many good days sunshine have we had since
> last November.

> This is what I always believe is one of the most difficult things that us
> U.K. people have to battle against.

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Dendrobium fimbriatum
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 20:30

Hi Roger; Thanks for that. Only problem is knowing what 'coming from Himalayas, Burma, Thailand, Viet-Nam, Malay peninsula means, plus add to that the elevation data, knowing which ocean affects the monsoon seasons and hence the wet/dry cycle, etc, etc. This is my second winter with some of the species dens that are said to require rests, so am still experimenting. Need to take careful notes so will at least have an idea of what or what not to try next year. As these guys seem to only bloom once a year, I can see why people lose interest in them. At least their flowers last longer than those in the Sobralia discussions!
The question remains about whether one can expect flowers BEFORE new growths or not.
Thanks
Sharon

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Days without sunshine.
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:15

This has probably been discussed many times, I'm sure, although it has
escaped my attention (which isn't difficult), but how about artificial
light?

I remember years ago, when I worked at the University of Aarhus, one of
the professors in physics, who was an orchid enthusiast, measured the
light spectra of different light sources and compared them to the needs
of plants − this is about 30 years ago, now (depressing, really ;-)

What he found amazed me − what was sold as 'grow-lights' at the time
seemed to give off the least suitable light! But the cheapest one, a
florescent tube named 'Industrial White' was nearly perfect, it would
seem. The light was unpleasant to the eye, but strong at exactly the
wavelengths that are most useful for plants.

I don't know what has happened in lighting technology since then, but I
don't believe things have moved all that much − I would certainly have
picked it up if there had been a major technological revolution.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Days without sunshine.
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 09:15

I don't know where you all (?) get the idea from, that our orchids come from
places where the sun shines 12 hours a day, every day.

A lot of you have been there ,- even if only briefly. All right, you spent
2 weeks on the beach at Phuket , you're not an expert on Thailand
hill-country , for sure, but lots of you have been with say Peter Williams
on his orchid tours , or to the Atlantic Rain Forest project near Rio etc ?

I know that I have been trying to visit orchid territory for most of my life
- rarely spending more than a week or two at a time , sometimes only a day
or two but I have been to at least a dozen major epiphytic orchid -source
countries, some of them several times. I can honestly say that when in the
right area for orchids ( usually in the hills ) I have only RARELY seen
sunshine all day, I have seen black clouds, grey skies, showers − even in
the "dry season" . I have seen streams and rivers running down from
mountain-tops in months when there is no rain − How ? from precipitation
from the mist which often lasts half the day.

Even if you have not had my good fortune, surely you have been to Scotland,
or the Welsh mountains. Have you not noticed that the sun is out on the
beach , and as you go up the hill, you run into cloud, black skies etc ? And
it's in the mountains where the orchids live − as a generalisation. ( Even
"mountainous" Dartmoor has a rain-fall over 250 inches per year − from
memory − over the very highest bit, even if it is down to a mere 40 inches
at the coast . And if it has that much rain , what do you think the sunshine
hours are compared to Torquay ? − mountains in Thailand are just the same !
)

I prefer to be scientific. I have taken a lux meter to orchid territory ,
and taken actual light readings from real orchid leaves . The readings I get
are not difficult to duplicate in my greenhouse ! Of course there are
orchids which demand being sunburnt , and a few which live wholly in the sun
; most however get dappled light because they grow on the thicker branches
below the actual twigs and leaves. But my point here is mainly that
anyone who thinks that the sun in Thailand is different from the sun in ,
say, West Bromwich should not claim to be scientific.

There are lots of reasons why our orchids don't and can't do as well as
jungle plants − and there are lots of reasons why they can do much better
than jungle plants . ( By the way , can anyone honestly tell me that they
have seen a jungle plant without some insect damage, infection etc, with all
leaves perfect ? Really ? Really ? You didn't look very hard then.( I have
no difficulty at all in duplicating this aspect of "real life" ).

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Days without sunshine.... post script
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:00

Its Saturday , 10 am . The sun is shining out of a clear blue sky
.Wall-to-wall sunshine.
My rain gauge shows me that it is now more than a week since the Dorset
monsoon season ended , and we have had conditions like this − clear sunshine
EVERY day − but NOT , I hasten to add , all day every day. Sometimes only
for an hour or less, sometimes all morning ( more often morning than
afternoon ).
Not very different from what I recall of many orchid countries...

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Days without sunshine.
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:50

In the UK, for most of the year I have only used shading in what goes for
high summer over here. The rest of the year, the dappling effect of the
double glazed polycarbonate seems sufficient.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Days without sunshine.
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:30

Hello Jan & Dennis,
I started growing Phals 7 years, and have always grown them under lights. 3
X 400 watt SON's for 12/14 hours per day depending on the time of year.
Expensive, perhaps but I do get growth and flowers irrespective of the
season.Also if I didn't have the heat from the lamps, the heaters would be
on more. Fluorescence is certainly good and cheap for growing but has to be
very close to the plants, OK for seedlings but not practable for Phals.
Tina raised the question of are Orchids worth the bother, and I must say
that I have sometimes had the same thoughts, now that the novelty has
perhaps worn off, or maybe perhaps I am just getting Old. In addition I
wonder about this Carbon footprint business. I live in the north east of
England and where, relative to those who mention it, we have had numerous
days of several hours sunshine this Autumn and Winter, and just now there
is brilliant sunshine. In fact I have often recently commented that when, as
now the sun is so low in the sky, it makes driving difficult, but I would
quite like to have 12 hours sunshine each day, some days, but perhaps with a
hour or two of rain every night.
Regards to all,
Ronbow.

> This has probably been discussed many times, I'm sure, although it has
> escaped my attention (which isn't difficult), but how about artificial
> light?
>
> I remember years ago, when I worked at the University of Aarhus, one of
> the professors in physics, who was an orchid enthusiast, measured the
> light spectra of different light sources and compared them to the needs
> of plants − this is about 30 years ago, now (depressing, really ;-)
>
> What he found amazed me − what was sold as 'grow-lights' at the time
> seemed to give off the least suitable light! But the cheapest one, a
> florescent tube named 'Industrial White' was nearly perfect, it would
> seem. The light was unpleasant to the eye, but strong at exactly the
> wavelengths that are most useful for plants.
>
> I don't know what has happened in lighting technology since then, but I
> don't believe things have moved all that much − I would certainly have
> picked it up if there had been a major technological revolution.
>

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Heating
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:05

My new orchid house is all-electric and is working fine but lately I have
been getting concerned about what would happen if there was a power
breakdown so I am now interested in your opinions about alternative
back-ups and the possible ventilation problems. Your thoughts would be
welcome.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Heating
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:25

Ron, I have lost power twice and I find that a well insulated green house should hold sufficient heat for a night if the plants are not soaking wet. In the winter I never water/feed after 10.00AM so they are only moist by nightfall. I also hold a spare fan heater for imediate use in the morning.
There is also the old addage '' Our father .............''
regards

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Heating
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:35

Ron,
I share your thoughts and have given the matter some frequent consideration. The probability of a lengthy break down happening is not great. I have been in this house for 46 years and have had very few power breakdowns and none for very long, one in December last and for less than 1 hour. Whilst I have had Orchids for only 7 years, I have always had a greenhouse and conservatory growing many tender plants. I also used to keep tropical fish in tanks and in a fish house.
When I built the house I had the provision for auxiliary power to several of the main light points to be supplied from a portable generator. In the first 20 years I never had to use it and eventually it was stolen and I have never replaced it.

I cannot see that lack of ventilation would be a problem unless it was of long duration. Open the windows and doors.Generators are noisy and could be a nuisance if there are near neighbours. I have also considered butane gas, and think it implacable as provision would need to made for the heater to be in the GH all time as well as storage place for the gas cylinders. Ventilation and a flue would be essential. If the value of the plants is the consideration, insurance is possible.
It could also depend on the size of the collection, a small amount of plants could be temporally placed in the home.

I am certainly interested in other growers thoughts but I have decided to trust to luck and global warming and continue to consider if in the UK climate, particularly in the north east, are Orchids worth the bother.

Geoff, I agree with a lot of your writing and that your lux readings are
the same in your greenhouse as in Thailand. For many years I worked abroad
and some of the locations were near the Equator India, Pakistan. Iran,
Iraq, Nigera UAE. The main difference is the length of time the sun is in
the sky.

Last week the sunniest place in Britain was Falmouth with 8 hrs but very
low down. In countries near the Equator both dawn and sunset are no more
than 10 minutes each leaving over 11 1/2 hrs available. In this country
dawn and sunset take about 45 minutes each leaving a maximum of 10 1/2 hrs
of sun much lower down in the sky. I also believe that ultra violet and
infra red waves penetrate cloud and mist especially when the sun is
directly overhead. Even in the clouds in Ecuador there were faint shadows.
In the desert you could get burnt in dust storms from u.v rays Maybe there
is a meteorologist member of this list who can say if there is a difference
in the suns rays between the equator and europe.

Goeff, I bought Coelogyne mossiae ''Majus'' from L&R Orchids, New Zealand
at Newbury about 10 yrs ago. It got so large I gave it to Malcolm Perry to
sell. Un fortunatly Dudley Clayton, of Coelogyne fame doubted the name. It
has just been flowered in France by a Coelogyne collector and at the moment
it is thought to be a C. crista hybrid with an unknown. My remaining piece
will be in flower in about 2 months and I will post a picture and keep you
informed. I now have four Coelogyne bought from reputable nurseries but
inncorrectly named.
Regards from a bright but cold Devon.

From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Heating
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:55

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Heating
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 04:50

Brassoepidendrum Kan Yuet Him:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_4098b.jpg

Clowesia Grace Dunn:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_4111b.jpg

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Worth the bother?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:40

I can certainly see where you're coming from − I have that thought from
time to time. It is a lot of bother and for what, when you have more or
less seen it all before? This, I think, is depression that speaks; or
that is what it is when I feel like that − there is plenty to be
depressed about in the world, but then again, every day is new.

People often ask 'What's the purpose' − as if what matters is reaching
the goal. To me at least that is wrong − the goal is the end of the
journey, and I have no haste reaching it just yet. The struggle is what
makes it worthwhile; it's like when you go on holiday, it is a lot of
bother, really, uncomfortable journeys, miserable hotels, oppressive
heat, and absolute gorgeous experiences on the way.

Ron Bower wrote:
>
> I am certainly interested in other growers thoughts but I have decided to
> trust to luck and global warming and continue to consider if in the UK
> climate, particularly in the north east, are Orchids worth the bother.

From: Jean-Claude GEORGE
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Coel. mossiae
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:25

Dennis, I think I am "the french collector who flowered your C.mossiae". I got to the list last spring, when there was that discussion about C.speciosa xaffine, as my main interest is ...Coelogyne. I am currently gathering informations and plants on the genus. Thanks to your posts I could get in contact with Malcolm Perry, and he is a great help ! I now grow about 70 different Coelogyne species.

I got your "mossiae" this summer, I grew it intermediate, and its first flowers opened about 2 weeks ago. It is a very fine plant indeed, slightly fragrant, the pseudobulbs, leaves and flower look like those of cristata, but the scape is not drooping, the lip is different. It has 3 main dentate crests and 2 small lateral ones : mossiae is fragrant, has only 2 entire crests and an erect scape, is a warmer plant, flowers in february. That's why I think it could be a hybrid. I have not been able to find a photo of the "true" mossiae, would be glad to find one... I enclose photos of the plant, flower, and lip expanded.
Yours,

> Goeff, I bought Coelogyne mossiae ''Majus'' from L&R Orchids, New Zealand
> at Newbury about 10 yrs ago. It got so large I gave it to Malcolm Perry
> to sell. Un fortunatly Dudley Clayton, of Coelogyne fame doubted the
> name. It has just been flowered in France by a Coelogyne collector and
> at the moment it is thought to be a C. crista hybrid with an unknown.
> My remaining piece will be in flower in about 2 months and I will post
> a picture and keep you informed. I now have four Coelogyne bought from
> reputable nurseries but inncorrectly named. Regards from a bright but
> cold Devon.

From: Brenda Beale BB
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Photos
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:20

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Days without
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:10

Without being a meteorologist I can answer that ; when the sun is low in the
sky the rays travel a long way through the earth's atmosphere , whereas when
( if) the sun is directly overhead, the rays travel the minimum distance
through the atmosphere.

Certain gases in the atmosphere ( not to mention dust in the air )do have a
filtering effect , hence the light temperature changes from a low value in
the morning and evening to a higher value in the day. Clouds also affect
this. Serious photographers can tell you this − I can actually read the
light temperature effective at the time as an item in the image metadata
recorded by my rather sophisticated camera.

However, getting back to plants , it seems that the uv end of the spectrum
gets through , it is the i-f end which is reduced in value ( any real
physicist out there who can correct me, please do ! ) . And, experiments
show that it is the u-v end which is most important for plant growth.
Again, any proper plant physiologist ( is there such a thing , and is this
the right speciality for the job ? ) who knows better, please say , and
correct my mistakes.

Why the spectrum should make any difference , defeats me . My muddled
understanding of cell chemistry/ physics and quantum theory suggests that a
photon is a photon is a photon , so why should chlorophyll fuss about the
source of the energy it needs ?

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Heating
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:25

Three nice ones Esther .
The cattleya is unusual in being all solid colour.
I have several Bepis of the same shape as yours − Yellow Bird is the
obvious one which comes to mind, but I don't have this colour ; must look
out for it.
And your clowesia is really lovely ; I have never seen this before , in fact
don';t think I have ever flowered a clowesia or have one in my collection ,
but again will look out !.

> Cattleya hybrid:
> http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_4088b.jpg

> Brassoepidendrum Kan Yuet Him:
> http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_4098b.jpg

> Clowesia Grace Dunn:
> http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rockhop/IMG_4111b.jpg

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Coelogyne.
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:20

The leaves on your plants look so very nice and dark green with no visible markings or spotting, well done.

One question for you Elisabeth, do you try and keep your bulbs as 'fat' as possible?

My friend has a very large photograph of Coelogyne cristata which measures about one metre by two metres. It shows the orchid growing down the face of a cliff.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Coel. mossiae
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:50

Ps. My flowers and indeed whole plant is easily distinguished from the ones
shown in the three images of stated hybrids.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Coel. mossiae
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:50

My 'mossiae' has two entire crests , if 'entire' means more or less
continuous extending along the whole length of the lip ; and also has a
central partial crest , by which I mean a more-or less continuous crest
which does not extend over the whole length of the lip , terminating maybe a
centimetre short of the front end of the other crests. Mossiae ? or not ?

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Coel. mossiae
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:55

This is the great thing about this list. It would be wonderful to know how many people read this list. I bought this plant from L&R orchids New Zealand as a seedling and it gave me a lot of pleasure but it got too large so I gave it to Malcolm to find a new home, and I see you have a piece. The piece i kept has the begining of two spikes. For Geoff − is this like yours? At the moment Malcoilm is trying to identify a plant he sold to me as Coelogyne oblongata − it is now a specimum plant which we think is Pholidota levielleana. Malcolm is trying to get it identified with Lieden Univ.Have you heard of this plant that comes from Vietnam and I believe the translation into english from french is 'nightwatchman'
Great to hear from you. Regards from Devon

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Coel. mossiae
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:30

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Days without
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:50

Geoffrey Hands wrote:
>
> Why the spectrum should make any difference , defeats me . My muddled
> understanding of cell chemistry/ physics and quantum theory suggests that a
> photon is a photon is a photon , so why should chlorophyll fuss about the
> source of the energy it needs ?
>
Well, a photon is a photon and then again not. What a photon is,
actually, is a way of explaining away the strange fact that light seems
sometimes to behave as particles and sometimes as waves − whether it is
really what light is like, we don't quite know, but the idea seems to
work well enough for most purposes.

A photon can be thought of as a small packet of energy, and they can be
told apart be how much energy they contain. The energy is also what
gives them their 'colour' − what we as see different colours is the
brain's interpretation of the energy of the photons that reach the eye.

Now, the reason the light spectrum matters to plants is that atoms and
molecules can absorb or emit energy only in certain 'quanta'; what this
means is that if a photon with the wrong energy hits, say, a chlorophyll
molecule, it isn't absorbed.

You know this kind of cupboard doors that sort of 'locks' when you close
it − it has a sort spring mechanism with a small ball that keeps the
door closed? I have one of those, and I sometimes try to close it just
by giving it a quich push as I pass. If I don't push hard enough, it
just bounces back − on the other hand, if I slam it too hard, it does
the same thing: the energy has to be just right. This is how quantum
mechanics work, and that is why only the right colours of light is
useful for plants.

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Heating
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:15

The Cattleya was sold to me as C. Chongkolnee, but turned out to be
something else. If anyone has any idea what it is, I'd love to know.

Bepi. Kan Yuet Him was hybridised by Woon Leng Nurseries in Singapore and
that is where I got my plant.

I can't take any credit for C. Grace Dunn's blooms because I just bought the
plant last month. It was 4 bare bulbs and the flower spike developed soon
after I brought it home. This plant came from Jumbo Orchids in Taiwan.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Coel. mossiae
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:20

Elizabeth.Perhaps you can tell Geoff where he ca get a true representation of C. mossiae. I believe Leiden university holds a lot of info. on Coelogynes. That french Web site you gave has amazing photos on it but it is never picked up by Google − I guess becaus it is not in Amerglish. I do not speak French but I have bought a few french orchid books as photos and latin names are universal.
Regards

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Coel. mossiae
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:40

> This is the great thing about this list. It would be wonderful to know
> how many people read this list.

From: Jean-Claude GEORGE
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fwd: FW: Coel. mossiae
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:40

Thanks you all for your welcome messages !
Apart from a few plants that require a rest, I never let my plants dry more than a fortnight in winter and they are sprayed almost every other day when it is sunny (which seems to happen more often here, north-east of France, than in England!)
As for C.mossiae, I've just received "Orchids of Nilgiris" from India, with a drawing of the plant, I enclose it that you can make your mind.

Dennis, you flowered a C.oblongata ? I got a C.oblongatum from a french grower some years ago, but it didn't flower and I lost it last year. Do you have a photo of the flower? I have a drawing of Pholidota leveillieana from "Orchids Monographs" by De Vogel, I enclose it too.
Elisabeth

> This is the great thing about this list. It would be wonderful to know
> how many people read this list. I bought this plant from L&R orchids
> New Zealand as a seedling and it gave me a lot of pleasure but it got
> too large so I gave it to Malcolm to find a new home, and I see you
> have a piece. The piece i kept has the begining of two spikes. For
> Geoff − is this like yours? At the moment Malcoilm is trying to
> identify a plant he sold to me as Coelogyne oblongata − it is now a
> specimum plant which we think is Pholidota levielleana. Malcolm is
> trying to get it identified with Lieden Univ.Have you heard of this
> plant that comes from Vietnam and I believe the translation into
> english from french is 'nightwatchman'

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Heating
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:30

I have Chongkolnee , and yes it does look a lot like your flower, but mine
is much darker , and slightly glossy − Chocolate Drop is one parent . My
Chongkolnee is a named variety ; maybe yours is true to name ? I think it
likely.

> The Cattleya was sold to me as C. Chongkolnee, but turned out to be
> something else. If anyone has any idea what it is, I'd love to know.

> Bepi. Kan Yuet Him was hybridised by Woon Leng Nurseries in Singapore and
> that is where I got my plant.

> plant last month. It was 4 bare bulbs and the flower spike developed soon
> after I brought it home. This plant came from Jumbo Orchids in Taiwan.

From: Silvio a Beccara
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Heating
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:35

can I ask you how you manage to bring orchids from far East into Europe? It
looks like a nearly impossible task to me, and I believe people on this list
have been discussing for weeks about CITES and importing orchids...
cheers

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2007 Archived Messages

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