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2006 Archived Messages


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MONTHDATEDATEDATEDATEMONTHDATEDATEDATEDATE
January 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 February 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-28
March 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 April 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
May 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 June 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
July 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 August 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
September 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 October 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
November 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 December 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31

December 22—31

From: Max Redman
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newcomers to orchids.
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 02:00

Hi Rocky,
Easy orchids are situated in NSW Australia along the northern part of the East coast.
Murray Shergold who is the owner is really quite knowledgable as regards orchid growing and out here it is a belief that there are really three different types of orchid roots.
The first is the normal roots that grow in various composts, the second is the type that grow in water or hydroponics and the third are aerial roots. I have found that potting aerial roots in compost invariably leads to their demise and the same with potting them in water. Ditto the other types of roots.
Any facts that you or other members may be able to produce to show that this is incorrect would be greatly welcomed. After all, we are all on a learning curve and often it is because someone, somewhere is able to give us the correct scientific facts that we are able to increase our knowledge.
To all members of the group I would like to wish everyone a very happy Xmas and a prosperoous New Year. May your orchids grow bigger,brighter and more floriferous than ever.
Max.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tina Stagg
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newcomers to orchids.
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:00

Welcome, Tim

When I started growing orchids I spent far more on books than I did on
plants.

I now have an excellent reference library and frequently pop into the house
on a Sunday morning (my greenhouse time) to look up something.

So, although it is good, and sometimes essential, to exchange cultural
information with other growers, if you choose your plants from good
nurseries and your books with care, you will not have many real problems.

Tina

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Aerial roots and all the rest.
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:30

Hi all, especially Ron and Max,

First to answer Ron's question.

It is not the compost that I am actually up in arms about Ron, but, if we all have a look at their website we will all read what is said about the putting of the so called aerial roots into the compost, which as they say leads to their destruction.

My answer would be..........What a load of cobblers.

Take a well growing Phalaenopsis plant. It does not matter if it is clinging on to a tree or if it is growing in a pot. Both plants have many roots. All of the roots are the same. There is no difference in the ones at the bottom, centre or top of the rhizome. If a Phalaenopsis is actually growing attached to a tree, then most of the roots will be clinging to the surface. However, some of the roots, especially those that face away from the tree when they first emerge will of course grow out into fresh air. But ALL of the roots that the plant grows will be the same. The plant does not tell itself to grow different roots.

Another thought. Take a good Phalaenopsis out of its pot. Remove all the compost. Wash it so that it is perfectly clean. Ask someone to point out the roots..........then ask them to show which are so called aerial roots and then to show which are not.

That's what I am on about.

And now on to Max.

Hi Max. I was very surprised indeed to read that Easy Orchids are an Australian based Orchid Nursery when I looked at the website and found that they are an English crowd from up in West Yorkshire. Is it the same people??? Then a week or so ago after seeing the advert for the Easy Orchid fertiliser I thought that I would give them a phone call as there was no details about N.P.K. on the bottle. The man on the other end of the phone said that he did not know..........it just comes in on a palette or whatever. I guessed that he did not know much about anything.

To put my point of view truly in place about the so called aerial roots on the Phallys, I will ask this question in regard of the very wrong/misleading information. The so called 'aerial roots' that they speak about are those that are growing from the topmost point of the rhizome, so of course they may stick out into fresh air. Common b****y sense. The lower roots [which are the same] do not flap about in the air because of course they are growing in/through the compost from the start.

Max.....I have just had a look at Murray's web page.....different set up entirely. Do me a favour and have a look at the English so called 'Easy Orchids'. Cheers mate.

That's enough for now folks. Anyone else like to comment.

Regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Aerial roots.
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 19:25

Evenin' all,

To carry on the good chat among our members regarding the so called 'Aerial roots', I saw this description explained in an Orchid Society's chat page.

aerial root
Any root produced above the growing medium.

O.K. So what if the plant is mounted and there is no growing medium. This of course just goes to prove that all the roots are the same.

And before I conclude this piece about so called 'Aerial Roots', I would ask this question to anybody who thinks that Aerial roots are different from the other roots on the same plant:-

I will take a Phalaenopsis and take it out of its pot. Then I will remove all of the medium, wash and clean the roots. Wait a couple of days, then, holding the plant up with one hand so that all of the roots are there before ones eyes, and then ask any sceptics to show me by touching which are the aerial roots, and which are not.

Kind regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rudolf Günnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] catasetums in hydroculture
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 19:45

Hi Tony,

The growing of algae's doesn't really cause problems. Perhaps with
regard to this fact I didn't use the right term / word.
But I think you know hydroculture is a culture method on inorganic
basis. Potting medium should be inert and usually the fertilizer is an
inorganic one. Algae's growing is − let me say it in this way − an
organic pollution of this system.
Further more algae smell a bit strange and that's another reason for an
indoor grower like me to avoid its appearing.

@Esther

You don't need an EC meter for hydroculture. I tried just to give you a
rule of thumb see that Catasetums need a much higher dose of fertilizer
than other orchids. Some growers are joking when the say they grew them
in pure fertilizer. :-) :-)
I wouldn't try this!!!!!!!

Best regards from Germany, Rudolf.

-----UrsprFCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: WAOS [mailto:waos@iinet.net.au]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Dezember 2006 23:38
An: orchid-talk.
Betreff: [OrchidTalk] catasetums in hydroculture

Hi Rudolf

Would you like to tell us what the problem is with algae please?

Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newcomers to orchids.
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:20

Hi Tim, I'm fairly new on the scene also, but I have learned one thing...
It is ALL WHEAT on this list. You can learn a tremendous amount from these
erudite and generous teachers here.

How many and what types of the mesmerizing plants do you own?

Barbara

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sylvain VAN DER WALDE
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newcomers to orchids.
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:55

timwalker+tim wrote on Thursday, December 21, 2006 :

> Hello

> I am new to this list − read the archives and it is all very interesting.
> I am also new to Orchids − how is someone who knows nothing (me) meant to
> sort the wheat from the chaff?

> Or perhaps I can rely on all your expertise
> and wisdom in the challenging times ahead?

Hello Tim.
In the first instance, you should get a few basic books on Orchids, and also
get some basic info on the Internet. _You should have a lot of enthusiasm;
that's important_. I'm afraid that my own enthusiasm is not as high as it
used to be.
Start with some easier ones to grow: Phalaenopsis are OK, and easily
available. If your tap water is hard, _don't_ add any fertiliser.
To start with, water weekly with tepid water. Don't get any potting mix
(compost) from gardening centres, but only from an orchid specialist (look
up Ratcliffe Orchids, and Burnham Nurseries for Orchids and supplies, on the
Internet). See-through plastic pots help prevent over-watering. Keep your
plants in good light, but away from direct sunlight.
There are generally three temperatures that Orchids prefer: warm,
intermediate, and cool. Phalaenoepsis (Phals. for short) are warm growing
plants. The night temperature should not drop below 15 C.
That's enough to start with. Get at least one good basic book on Orchids.

P.S. There's a short note for Rocky, below.

Sylvain.

Tim

________________________________

Roger Grier wrote on 21 December 2006 18:59:

> Hi all,

> I always try to give as much help to newcomers as I possibly can, but when I
> see and read some of the information on the website of 'Easy Orchids'
> [whoever they are] I am appalled.

> I was looking at the illustrations and advise on re-potting a Phalaenopsis.

> It tells of: You should remove any dead roots right up to the base of the
> plant and shorten any broken ones. Yes, quite true. Any overly long aerial
> roots should also be trimmed back as they will not function in the potting
> medium and may rot and kill the plant. This is because they have formed an
> outer skin which is designed to take water from the atmosphere rather than
> in compost. A complete load of rubbish.

Hello Rocky.
I can't find anything _really_ wrong with the above statement. After all,
very few people grow their orchids in gravel (I don't write nowadays, but I
still read this mail list.).

Sylvain

> I could pull my hair out, but I won't as I am a bit thin on top, but when
> are these sort of people going to stop all of this nonsense that they
> obviously know nothing about.

> Without going into the natural common sense answer, can anyone tell me with
> all honesty what these people are on about?????

> It's bad enough having Garden centres sell the rubbish that is labelled
> 'Orchid Compost'.

> I rest my case.

> Kind regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newcomers to orchids.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:20

Hi Rocky,
On the warpath again? This time you went too far.
Aerial roots do not grow in ordinary orchid compost. Max is quite right in saying
that there are 3 types of roots. The only way to keep the aerial roots is, to place
them on top of the mix. There might be a possibility that aerial roots grow in a pot
with your stone-culture, but, besides you, who is doing this?
I know Murray Shergold for over 10 years and he is well respected and known in the
Orchid growing comunity. We have met at 3 WOC's and a number of other international
shows and conferences. He is mainly a species grower. With other words, he knows what
he is saying.
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas.
Peter from Bloubergstrand

Roger Grier wrote on Thursday, December 21, 2006:

Hi all,

> I always try to give as much help to newcomers as I possibly can, but
> when I see and read some of the information on the website of 'Easy
> Orchids' [whoever they are] I am appalled.

> I was looking at the illustrations and advise on re-potting a
> Phalaenopsis.

> It tells of: You should remove any dead roots right up to the base of
> the plant and shorten any broken ones. Yes, quite true. Any overly long
> aerial roots should also be trimmed back as they will not function in
> the potting medium and may rot and kill the plant. This is because they
> have formed an outer skin which is designed to take water from the
> atmosphere rather than in compost. A complete load of rubbish.

>

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newcomers to orchids.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:25

Read as much as you can. Listen to as many orchid growers you meet.
Learn by trial and error and ask as many questions as possible.
Merry Christmas
Peter from Bloubergstrand

"timwalker+tim" wrote on Friday, December 22, 2006:

> Hello
>
> I am new to this list − read the archives and it is all very interesting.
> I am also new to Orchids − how is someone who knows nothing (me) meant to
> sort the wheat from the chaff? Or perhaps I can rely on all your expertise
> and wisdom in the challenging times ahead?

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Dennis's orchid.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:30

Mornin' Dennis,

Thanks for the information regarding the [Cyrtochilum] Oncidium macranthum..........sorry mate but I can't get away from the old established names.

I sure envy you when you tell of your trip to Ecuador.

Now then Dennis, down to brass tacks. I looked at both photos and it immediately reminded me of a book that I have called 'Orchids of Brazil' written by Jim and Barbara McQueen of Tasmania. Sadly Jim died at the age of sixty four [I think] a few years ago, but in this excellent book, the authors tell of the same species of plant collected from different areas and that the way perform in ones greenhouse or wherever they are kept.

So Dennis, don't expect too much from your plant, but no doubt it will get better with some feed and tender loving care. I look forward to seeing photos next Xmas time. They especially remarked on Bifrenaria Harrisoniae. I had a piece given to me a couple of years ago..........it did nothing but gradually die and they remarked that this species did in fact do this if an inferior plant was purchased, but other people had tremendous success with it. The different locations etc were to blame.

This of course happens to us gardeners with all types of plants.

Some we win, some we loose !!!

Kind regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [SPAM][OrchidTalk] How I will greet you.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 11:15

And the same to you, Jordan, and to all our friends at Orchid Talk

Ron

jns tropic wrote on 12 December 2006 01:03:

> When I greet someone during the holidays, I greet them
> according to my background. I do not try to figure
> out the other persons background. If they are
> offended.so be it. I would hope that the person
> greeting me would do so according to their own
> beliefs. If I offend someone with my greeting, please
> don't tell me I am wrong and they have the correct
> answers. So I now wish you all a Merry Christmas and
> a healthy New Year. May everyone have orchids grow
> and be fruitful, well maybe just flower.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [OrchidTalk] orchids
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 11:15

I cannot understand all the excitement about climate change. The earth's
climate has always been changing.

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sylvain VAN DER WALDE
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 11:30

Roger Grier wrote:

> Evenin' all,

> To carry on the good chat among our members regarding the so called 'Aerial
> roots', I saw this description explained in an Orchid Society's chat page.

> aerial root
> Any root produced above the growing medium.

> O.K. So what if the plant is mounted and there is no growing medium. This
> of course just goes to prove that all the roots are the same.

> And before I conclude this piece about so called 'Aerial Roots', I would ask
> this question to anybody who thinks that Aerial roots are different from the
> other roots on the same plant:-

> I will take a Phalaenopsis and take it out of its pot. Then I will remove
> all of the medium, wash and clean the roots. Wait a couple of days, then,
> holding the plant up with one hand so that all of the roots are there before
> ones eyes, and then ask any sceptics to show me by touching which are the
> aerial roots, and which are not.

Hello Rocky.
My Phals. have always had aerial roots (I haven't any Phals.at the moment).
The ones growing in the compost go down, and the aerial rooots grow
_sideways_.

Sylvain.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Temperature for Phalaenopsis.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 14:20

Hi all,

I have been searching through my lever arch file holder [old fashioned type] for a certain piece of information but I cannot find it. So I thought that I might ask, as one of you may have the answer.

Some years ago I read a piece by an Australian orchid grower who stated that as long as the atmosphere was not that damp, then Phalaenopsis would live quite happily at fifty degrees Fahrenheit.

Mine do, so it is correct.

Thing is..........who wrote that article????

Help!

Regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.- to be or not to be − that . . . .
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:05

Rocky,
To carry on the good chat even further and possibly more controversially; what gives me a little anxiety about your sweeping generalisation is that the 'aerial' roots usually (always?) have green tips. In other words, they are presumably functioning as photosynthesising organs whatever else they 'ought' to be doing. Now, of course, that might simply be a response to their being exposed to light (like buried roots in translucent pots) but most plants don't 'deliberately' grow roots above their substrate unless for a purpose and, as far as I am aware, few 'normal' roots of other plants have chlorophyll in their growing tips.

Clearly, where orchids are confined to a pot and produce roots apparently seeking a substrate by growing downwards (geotropism) the green tips may well have a temporary advantageous photosynthesising function. However, not all 'aerial' roots seem to be geotropic and, therefore, might be 'deliberately intended' to have an exposed photosynthesising function.

What about plants whose roots 'choose' to run on top of a substrate rather than bury themselves in it? Are you saying that such plants are 'mistaken' or 'unaware' of the way they should grow?

Are there any plant physiologists out there who could clarify the situation from a deeper knowledge rather than my naive conclusions from limited observation? I can believe that roots might be capable of adapting either to burial or aerial suspension if forced to but I find it difficult to believe that the plants are so 'stupid' as not to know what's best for them!

Of course, there is the issue of kikis which are apparently 'intended' to drop off as complete root-shoot and leaf proto plants who's roots may have preliminary aerial and subsequently buried functions.

As a last thought; I guess we have all grown Monstera (the Cheese plant) at sometime. We once had one that had metres of roots running along skirting boards and behind furniture in search of a drink. Never did it bother to have chlorophyll to give the tips a secondary function as it searched!

I think there might be a bit more to this issue!

John

Roger Grier wrote on Friday, December 22, 2006

> Evenin' all,

> To carry on the good chat among our members regarding the so called
> 'Aerial roots', I saw this description explained in an Orchid Society's
> chat page.

> aerial root Any root produced above the growing medium.

> O.K. So what if the plant is mounted and there is no growing medium.
> This of course just goes to prove that all the roots are the same.

> And before I conclude this piece about so called 'Aerial Roots', I
> would ask this question to anybody who thinks that Aerial roots are
> different from the other roots on the same plant:-

> I will take a Phalaenopsis and take it out of its pot. Then I will
> remove all of the medium, wash and clean the roots. Wait a couple of
> days, then, holding the plant up with one hand so that all of the roots
> are there before ones eyes, and then ask any sceptics to show me by
> touching which are the aerial roots, and which are not.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: jeff
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:05

Well Rocky .. all roots certainly are not the same and your understanding may be further enhanced in simple terms by the following article
http://www.rv-orchidworks.com/nletter/n050105/newsletter/article050105.html
Roots can however modify their structure over time
There are more complex scientific research papers but the above link should be sufficient to encourage you to investigate further if you are sufficiently concerned.
Your " touch " test is certainly rather .... shall we say not the most appropriate way to differentiate between the thickness , density and structure of different epithelial velamen.
Jeff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Aerial roots.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:50

Hi Peter and John,

Let me clarify what makes me mad. 'They' talk about aerial roots, but let me ask you both and for that fact all of us, this question.

If as I have said we depot a Phalaenopsis and then clean the roots so that we are just left with a few leaves, the rhizome, and roots.

Can you tell me which are aerial rots and which are not???

That's what I am on about. Think of what the beginners have to battle with,especially when they are told not to bury the roots as they will not function in the compost..........what the hell are the others doing then???

It is so good and beneficial to have a good discussion, thanks chaps.
Regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 23:55

Hi Rocky,
Surely (surely?) the term aerial roots refers to the growth habit of some roots which arise, often, from locations not near the substrate and show no obvious tropism towards the substrate. Withouit human assistance, such roots would be 'suspended' in the air rather than buried, onchored or otherwise in intimate contact with a compost or substrate.

Other roots, sometimes on the same plant, may show a tropism towards the compost (usually downward and therefore a gravity-tropism or towards the Earth, hence geo-tropism). In those respects, at least, they differ.

Those differences are in growth habit or style and require a distinguishing name just as a terminal bud is distinguished from a lateral one or a terminal leaf from a lateral one.

When it comes to handling an assortment of aerial and other roots, it would be a remarkably clever botanist who could distinguish them without prior experience of how they look in , say, thin section or, perhaps more importantly, how they function physiologically.

Far be it from me to assert that you are wrong but I am prepared to suggest that just because you can't, by sight, distinguish them on the evidence you offer, that doesn't prove that they are the same. The fact that the plant seems to 'insist' on different habits for different roots makes me wonder just why they do that?

In my humble experience, just because things look the same doesn't prove or even necessarily indicate that they are the same. There are many distinguishing features of biological phenomena than simply 'looking alike'

John

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots − oops − a redundant offering.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:25

Hi again Rocky,
Sorry to launch off at you a second time , especially since more or less my comments have been more eloquently offered by others since my first fusilade. (Moral; hold fire until the dust has settled a bit!)

I still think you are mistaken but, what is so valuable is that a topic has been aired that attracts expertise (not mine!!!!). Food for thought and being involved in controversies about the (apparently) obvious is what the forum is really about. My thoughts have been much crystallised as a result of this discussion so thanks for that. I, for one, will have a look at the papers Peter recommends.
Best wishes, peace and goodwill etc!!!!
John

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newcomers to orchids.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 01:15

Hi Tim,

First; welcome to the group.

Secondly; I don't think the problem you have is distinguishing wheat from
chaff. There are very few folks here who know nothing about orchids. Even if
you have grown (and killed off) but one plant, then you have some experience
in common with most of us and that could be valuable to another!

I might be starting another controversy when I say that I think we would ALL
agree that our experience and wisdom differs in quality and quantity. I for
one can't claim much expertise in actually growing orchids (but my wife
could!) as for engineering the heating and humidity system, bending wire
hooks and creating a Tardis out of 16X8 then I may be on safer ground! I'm
also interested in aspects of orchid evolution, the way they relate to each
other, taxonomy, the global distribution and what's new in orchid science.
Others have all sorts of peripheral expertise that will emerge for you.

Some of us are scientists (or in the case of we retirees, once were!) this
helps us to evaluate the logical/illogical procedures that others express
even if we may not be expert in the subject of the argument. Even so,
practical experience of growing (any) plants in artificial conditions may
conflict with pure scientific expectation just as, sometimes, scientific
approaches can solve a grower's problems.

You happened to join us at a useful time to witness your first of such
clashes; Rocky knows more about growing orchids from a practical standpoint
than I'll ever know. We argue now and again, but never 'row', and that's an
important distinction.

The value of differences expressed in the forum is that it prompts the
protagonistss, as well as the observers, to check their views, information,
prejudices and pre-conceived ideas.

Even better, if we drag arguments on beyond their useful life then
someone'll put us back on track. It's all symbiosis on a grand scale!

The bottom line is; if you find our mumblings interesting or even better,
useful, then keep with us. If you think we're all nutters (and growing
tropical plants in winter in the UK may be a qualification for that) and you
wish to have more regulated hobby based on a rules rather than controversy,
well . . . . . we'd be sorry to lose you but we'd respect your view of us!

In short, were all almost human!
Happy Christmas
John Stanley

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots (was Newcomers to orchids.)
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:10

On 23 Dec, in article ,
P G Hieke wrote:
> Hi Rocky,
> On the warpath again? This time you went too far.
> Aerial roots do not grow in ordinary orchid compost. Max is quite right
> in saying that there are 3 types of roots. The only way to keep the
> aerial roots is, to place them on top of the mix. There might be a
> possibility that aerial roots grow in a pot with your stone-culture, but,
> besides you, who is doing this?

Peter, when I re-pot any of my phalaenopsis plants I put any aerial roots
*which are sufficiently flexible* into the pot. The only ones I leave out
are any which would break if forced. The 'newly potted' ones survive very
well.

Incidentally, I note that I don't get so many aerial roots where I use
clear pots.

> I know Murray Shergold for over 10 years and he is well respected and
> known in the Orchid growing comunity. We have met at 3 WOC's and a number
> of other international shows and conferences. He is mainly a species
> grower. With other words, he knows what he is saying.

I'm sure he does, but it wasn't him who Rocky was quoting. There are two
'EasyOrchid' sites; www.easyorchids.co.uk is the one which has annoyed
Rocky and www.easyorchids.com which is your friend Murray Shergold's site.

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,

--

Tricia

A day without sunshine is like... night.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: suzanne sadler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: aerial roots
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:05

To add my bit to the aerial root debate. I enjoy orchids but my knowledge and skill is very limited but when I repot my plants, any roots which have grown upwards I leave out of the compost. I just figure that if the plant wants its roots like that, then who am I to argue? I actually have a phal which climbs out of its pot and tries to make a run for it. Is that normal? Its a bit spooky! I do get rewarded with flowers, although I don't think i feed them enough so I probably could get more.

I love orchid talk. Everyone is so passionate.

Merry Christmas

Regards

Suzy

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Aerial roots/discussions and whatever else.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:35

Thanks to all who have added their comments about 'Aerial roots', and special thanks to Tricia [girls first] John and 'Pete from Bloubergstrand'.

Yes as John said, it's all about discussion and never ever nasty comments as for sure that is what this Club is all about. Long may we continue to chew over what we all say.

I can just see us all sat outside one of my locals in the New Forest on a warm summer evening, hell we would all end up having a whale of a time and very 'relaxed'.

One of you asked if I was the only person using a stone or inert compost. No sir! Definitely not. There are many people Orchid nurseries from all over the globe who are doing similar things.

Just to give you some information have a look at the attachments.

I use these photos when I give talks to people. I did on purpose water the Phally in the pot with tap water to show the deposits on the leaves. Notice the green tips on the roots that have decided to go right to the bottom of the pot and wander out into the outside world.

The poor old Vanda..........I purchased it and then wondered why it did not grow..........then it fell off the bench. You can see why.

Regards for now, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] receipts apology
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:35

I have finally mined deep into Outlook Express's tools and discovered how to
switch off the receipts request. How it was ever turned on in the first
place (last week?) I'll never know,

My apologies to all of you who have been lumbered with the irritating chore
of needing to respond every time my mail has been read − or received!
Needless to say, emailing a group to which I subscribe has meant that I've
needed to respond or react to my own mail !!! − so I know just how annoying
it was.

Oh yes; and Tricia will have noted that I now seem to know what year, month,
date and time it is (I also know who the Prime Minister is and I can boil an
egg. All answers to questions that test one's fitness for survival in
advancing years I understand!)

All the best eveyone

John

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Touch test.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 11:05

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your comments, which I took note of, as I do with all of the Clubs correspondence.

I think I got my wires twisted, or what I said came over as not intended.

What I meant to say was what I tell newcomers.

Good roots feel firm.

Dead roots have only the 'outside skin' and the tough central core.

Hopefully the photo that I posted of the Vanda shows this.

Regards, Rocky.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Inert non rotting mediums.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 11:15

Hi all,

I have decided to open up my 'Files' to you all. These items have been collected over many years, so to start with here is a letter from Tom Fennell.

Regards, Rocky.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: My fles.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 11:40

Hi all,

Here is an early Xmas present for you,

The two attachments are from 'The Orchid Review' 1967.

I did manage to track down Fred's right hand man when the Bird Gardens were ongoing and had a nice chat with him.

Then, some weeks later I managed to track down and have a very nice chat with Fred's wife.

My only regret is that Fred and I never had the chance to have a chat as he died many years ago, BUT, I do sincerely hope that I have 'Put him on the map' so to speak.

I do hope that you enjoy it and that it may help you to keep your orchids for many, many years. After all that's what it's all about.

Regards, Rocky.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Xmas present for you all.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:20

Here is an Xmas present for you all to read and to chew over after you have just sat down in your favourite armchair, or maybe relaxing on the beach.

So, wherever you are, do have a truly wonderful Xmas.

Talk to you all after the festive season.

All the very best, Rocky.

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From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots and all the rest.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:05

Actually, I think the issue is that orchid roots develop different amounts of velamen depending if they are in water, compost or hanging in the air. Thusly a root which begins in compost and then goes into the air will exhibit different water carrying ability-the one in the air won't 'wet' as well as one in the compost -the one in the compost will turn totally green while the one in air requires quite a bit more moisture to make it do so. Roots growing straight into water are different again as they never go through that white to green stage -mine are always white, but a deep creamy colour compared to the very white of an aerial root. This shows that orchids can adapt their velamen to the amount of water available, ensuring their ability to grow in a variety of environments. That is part of the reason they are such remarkable plants.
This is only my experience and the way that I have reasoned it to be.
Cheers and I hope you all have a wonderfully magical Christmas!
Sharon in Calgary

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From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [OrchidTalk] orchids
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:10

See if you can rent "An Inconvenient Truth" at your local video store. That
will answer your questions!
Sharon

"Ron Newstead" wrote on Saturday, December 23, 2006

>I cannot understand all the excitement about climate change. The earth's
> climate has always been changing.

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From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [OrchidTalk] orchids
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 01:05

Sharon, We own the book as well as the DVD. I think both are worthwhile.
What really took me aback were the pictures − Mt. Fujiama 10 years ago vs
today and similar comparisons. Nothing to do with politics. Very
compelling information therein, and plenty of science behind it.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Sharon's descritive words.
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:10

Mornin' Sharon, and a very happy Xmas to you,

I could not agree with you more, well said. You sure know how to put it into words, unlike us New Forest 'ampshire 'ogs as we are known. Never pronounce our 'H's' nor the 'G' at the end of a sentence.

So, I raise my glass to you [and no doubt a few more] on this 'appy mornin'.

Best wishes, Rocky.

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From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [OrchidTalk] orchids
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:15

Ron,
Well yes, but not always back to the way it was. Compliments for the coming
year,
Ronbow.

"Ron Newstead" wrote on Saturday, December 23, 2006:

>I cannot understand all the excitement about climate change. The earth's
> climate has always been changing.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Roots.
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 11:30

Mornin' all,

I hope that you had a very nice Xmas day and I hope that today is equally well enjoyed.

To carry on our excellent discussion on aerial and other roots, I would first like to point out that I am trying to speak in such a way as to help and encourage newcomers, and also other growers who have been killing their orchids.

Max interested me with the item from Murray: it is a belief that there are really three different types of orchid roots.

I observed the words 'it is a belief', so I will say that as far as the naked eye can see, and also looking through a home microscope, the roots that shall we say for a trial plant of a Phalaenopsis are all the same.

And then are very good friend 'Pete from Bloubergstrand' says: Aerial roots do not grow in ordinary orchid compost. First question Peter is, why do they not grow in 'Ordinary Orchid Compost'? I have been thinking very deeply as to how I should reply, thinking of newcomers and us old stagers. At the moment in my greenhouse I have a Phalaenopsis that has produced ['ang on a minute while I dash down to the greenhouse to check up] dash back again to take a photo.

So Peter and Max, and maybe Murray in the future. As you can see my Phally has produced four babies this year. The one on the right hand side is just dangling in mid air. It has a flower spike and plenty of roots which are at the moment just dangling in the air. They are the roots made by the plant. I guess that most people would say that the roots are 'Aerial' in their present LOCATION. However, if I cut the little plant from the Mother plant and pot it into my stone medium, I would put all of the roots inside the medium. Are they now to called non aerial roots?????

One of the baby plants on the left hand side has some of its roots in mid air and some have started to worm their way down into the pot of the Mother plant.

That will do for now. I hope that it will bring further discussion so that any newcomers will be able to rest their troubled brains.

Kind regards, Rocky.

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:50

Hi Rocky,
Yes I can. The roots with green or reddish/bronce coloured root tips are the
aerial roots. The roots which grow in the pot are whitish and have whitish
root tips.
All roots on plants growing on trees or rocks are aerial roots. Each root tip
is either green or bronce coloured and the velamen has a different structure
to that of roots growing inside a pot or in the ground. The orchids are so
"clever or intelligent" to change the velamen according its sourroundings.
A root can start out as aerial, then as it grows into some medium, it changes
the velamen to normal root, and when it comes out of it and hangs free in the
air, it changes the velamen again to aerial. Also, the length of the root tip
is an indicator to the happiness of the plant, the longer the root tip the
happier the plant. If the temperature or humidity is not right then the tip
will be very short or not at all. It is amazing to see how quick the length
of the root tip changes from long to short or the other way around.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots and all the rest.
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:55

Hi Sharon,
Yes you are absolutely right about the ability of the roots to change the velamen
according to the environment.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Temperature for Phalaenopsis.
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 15:05

Hi Rocky,
I would not say that they live happily at 50ºF (10ºC) but, they can survive.
They will never grow into a showstopper.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

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From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] You do what you gotta do.
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:45

I have been following the thread about three types of
roots. Well I have three types of skin. In late
summer after cutting the lawn in shorts and short
sleeve shirt plus swimming every day I indeed have
three types of skin. First my arms and legs are
tanned a very dark hue, my torso is well tanned but my
back side is as light as a baby. The skin still
functions the same way. But if I went to the beach
and exposed my entire body to the sun I would find
that my skin responded in three different ways. My
legs and arms would would have no change, but my torso
would be red and my posterior would be blistered.
Same skin − different reaction.

In the same way a single root may appear in different
forms according to the plants needs. I don't think
that we can make rules about roots without bending the
rule according to the environment. I believe that I
can brake many 'rules' in my tropical conditions. I
would recommend looking for help at your closest
orchid club. When I started in the 1940's I got on my
bike and looked for greenhouses and talked with the
owners. At that point there was only one book
available (White's book on How to Grow Orchids) and it
was information for the north east of the USA.

In Key Largo we have mangroves at the water front.
They have roots the start out as aerial roots then
grow into the salt water and finally into the the
sand. You can see some mangroves at:
http://togofcoralgables.com/KeyLargo.aspx

In my neighborhood you can see trees that have aerial
roots that turn in to additional trunks, and some
trees that have terrestrial roots that become
buttresses. For an example go to: http://togofcoralgables.com/aboutus.aspx

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From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots (was Newcomers to orchids.)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:25

Hello,
I did not intend to get involved in this discussion but you put the question
who else, apart from Rocky grows their plants in stones. Well I do, and I
did so on Rockies advice and I must say that my plants in stone grow very
well. The only down side is the weight, with each standard orchid pot
weighing in at some 2 pounds,1000 grams or so, and because of that I am
experimenting with Perlite and a little pea gravel which up to now seems OK.
As I have only been growing orchids for some 7 years. (Someone, a lady, gave
me a Phal, and I sometimes wish she hadn't.) I do not consider myself to be
an orchid expert, only knowledgeable. However some of the longer list
members will know that I am, or was a horticulturist, and grew up on my
fathers Market Garden, the term use in those days for someone that grew and
sold plants ect to the public, and that I have spent all my life growing all
sorts of plants.

The current subject matter is Arial roots on Phals. I think that most plant
growers are aware that plants grow roots, and that they do so to take up the
required amount of moister to satisfy the requirements of the plant to grow
foliage, as well as to grow and produce flowers so as to carry on the
species. Generally, and I cannot at the moment think of an exception, roots
go down and out, or out and then down in the case of Phals, and foliage in
general goes up and out.
As well as getting the required moister ect for the plant, the roots anchor
the plant and prevent it from falling or blowing over. Mostly, and I don't
want to write a treatise on the matter, once past the seedling stage roots
start from the stem base and have to go side ways before they can go down.
My phals like those of members, as the plant gets older produce roots higher
up the stem and seem to find it not easy to go down into the pot usually
because there is not room because of the tangle of other roots beneath them
that got there first. I find that they will soon turn down if there is water
or moister below the pot. My young phals do not put up Arial roots. Put a
phal keiki into a sealed bag of moss and see which way the roots go!
Whether in the case of phals a Arial root can become a none Arial root is a
moot point. Mine appear to do so and I do as some of you do when repotting,
stuff as many of the good roots, Arial or not as I can into the new media
and as far as I can tell most survive.That phal roots do, when they can, go
down is evident when one looks at those phals in the trees in their native
environment.Only perverse or profit wishing humans would wish to restrict
them to a 5 inch pot.
From some of the comments it seems to me that some members credit the
plants, Orchids that is, with having a brain and able to weigh things up
then decide what it wants to do. Try planting a out a pot bound tree, bush
or shrub without teasing the roots away from the circular and often inward
direction and you will usually find out that the subject does not florish
and becomes stunted and often dies. No brain! Geoff was right to buy his,
bare rooted. I think if you were to put a younge Phal into a 12 or 15 inch
diameter container of sphagnum moss or some fineish free draining medium,
few if any roots would be ariel. I notice some of my Dems spout a circle of
roots from the canes, out then down, looking for some where to penetrate for
the stated reasons, but soon give up as they are too far away from it
The orchid compost that Rockie complanes about would likely grow our plants
if we knew how and and took the nessessary care to let it dry out between
watering, the problem is that most growers who buy it are inexsperianced
beginners,who would equaly kill their plants even if in Newzeyland Sprag
Moss, and I speak from exsperiance, and Rocky not long ago complained of the
soggy ball of moss around a plant he had bought Geoff once observed that
indigenous growers, Taiwan and such usually successfully used indigenous
compost for their plants because it was there, cheap or free. It sems that,
to a degree, orchids will grow in anything.
I wish you all a successful growing 2006. May your efforts bear abundant
flowers and much leaf and roots, Ariel or otherwise.
Ronbow.

Rockie, I have read your posts and and agree to much of your comments.I
could not load the first of your two pictures.RB.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Roots and temperature.
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:05

Mornin' all, from yet another dull day without any offer of sunshine for the foreseeable future.

My remarks about the Phalaenopsis temperature were to show how low I will enable them to go in our cloudless damp dreary days of winter here in the U.K. I always believe that temperature and light go hand in hand, like team work. Therefore in our cold dreary days the lowest that my heated greenhouse ever goes is at the very lowest 50F, and that of course is only for a few hours. Normally the lowest temperature on such days, at night will be about 53/54 degrees Fahrenheit. Of course during the day, again on the very dull days, the temperature may 'climb' ha, ha, some hopes in our winter, to a staggering 60 degrees, give or take a couple.

I would like to ask our Club members from all parts of the globe if they have shall we say two weeks or more without any sunshine???

And now on to the root debate.

The words: it is a belief that there are really three different types of orchid roots.

So it is only a 'belief'. I would like to ask Murray what actually is the difference. Is it something to do with the cell structure or thickness of the velamen or what?

Why I ask this question is because if I cut a small cross section of a root that just hangs out in the air, and then I take a similar cross section of a root which is growing and living in my type of medium, then, when looked at under a home microscope I see no difference.

I look forward to the replies as this is very interesting.

Regards, Rocky.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Roots and mediums.
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:55

Hi all,

Yes I am a most inquisitive person, simply because I love knowledge..........whether it's any damned good or not I don't know, but it is very good to have a head full of this and that.

Question is:

The remark about putting aerial roots into the medium and the statement that they will not function, presumably die.

I will of course ask WHY? Why will they not function?

Normally it is because the medium is of the type that when watered, small particles block the cell structure of the velamen. It does not happen in my medium.

Rocky.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Dendrobium speciosum.
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:50

Hi to Max and other 'Oz' friends,

My very nice large plant of Dendrobium speciosum has three or four nice flower spikes emerging. About one inch long so far.

Over the many years that I have had this plant, twenty four in all, I have noticed that not all of the bulbs produce a flowering spike. If I look at the top of the bulbs where the leafs end I can see a 'bud', but never do mall of the made up bulbs carry on and produce a flower spike.

Is this a known item for this orchid?

Regards, Rocky.

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Roots.
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:55

Ok, here we go,
Are they now to called non aerial roots????? no, they stay aerial roots,
because the plant cannot change existing roots but, as the roots starts
growing this becomes an ordinary root. why do they not grow in 'Ordinary
Orchid Compost'? because there is more moisture and less oxygen.
However, if I cut the little plant from the Mother plant and pot it into my
stone medium, I would put all of the roots inside the medium. In your stone
medium you are probably successfull, because the roots are not fully buried
under the stones and there is more oxygen for them to survive.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

Roger Grier wrote on Tuesday, December 26, 2006:

...Max interested me with the item from Murray: it is a belief that there are really three different types of orchid roots.

I observed the words 'it is a belief', so I will say that as far as the naked eye can see, and also looking through a home microscope, the roots that shall we say for a trial plant of a Phalaenopsis are all the same.

And then are very good friend 'Pete from Bloubergstrand' says: Aerial roots do not grow in ordinary orchid compost. First question Peter is, why do they not grow in 'Ordinary Orchid Compost'?...
Kind regards, Rocky.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: London Spring Orchid Show March 17/18.
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 19:45

Hi all,

Does anyone have a link or know of the list of nurseries who will be attending please.

Thanks, Rocky.

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From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Roots and temperature.
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:15

Rocky,
I must say that I agree, in general, with your comments about roots. I don't see a great difference on Phals, between Arial or non Arial roots, certainly a difference in colour, I think due to the Arial kind being dryer on the "skin" as such. Frankly I am happy to have any sort of roots on my plants.
Ronbow.

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From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 22:40

Hi Jeff: Interesting article, thank you. I am wondering how one explains a root that begins inside a compost and then sticks out the side of the pot or basket? There must be an ability to change the type or quantity of velamen as the root progresses to take account of this. As roots appear to grow from the tip rather than from the base, it would be a natural adaptation. It is interesting that when you water a plant with a lot of aerial roots, so do and some do not turn that lovely reassuring green colour. Any ideas why not?
Thanks again
Sharon

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From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots/discussions and whatever else.
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 22:50

Hi Rocky: Thanks for sending the pics. I loved the one of the phals growing on the tree -but surely not in New Forrest?? I thought they grew upside down in the wild!?!
happy holiday (which I hope you are taking!)
Sharon

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From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Den Speciosum
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:40

Hi Rocky

Over the many years that I have had this plant, twenty four in all, I have noticed that not all of the bulbs produce a flowering spike.

Your Den speciosum sounds 'normal' to me. I find this happens with mine too. I just read your bit about the temps in your 'heated greenhouse' and must admit that I am surprised that the Den speciosum bothers to flower at all.

I lived in England for the first 14 years of my life and it was much too cold for me to flower.

Tony
In 38C Perth
Where the Ashes were won

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From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Den Speciosum
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:25

Hello Tony,
Indeed we are a friendly group, or we were until you mentioned the word ASHES. Maybe Trish should intervene and make the word taboo before we become not so friendly.
However congratulations, enjoy them whilst you have them cos we will be sure to get them back when you next compete in the UK. Look after your Orchids for you will need them to cheer you up when you again lose the Ashes.
All the best for 2007 (Through Gritted Teeth!)
Ronbow

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Roots and temperature.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 16:35

Hi Rocky,
here in Bloubergstrand ( Cape Town) we have N E V E R even one week without
any sunshine. The total number of days without sunshine is 11 per annum.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

Roger Grier wrote on Wednesday, December 27, 2006:

Mornin' all, from yet another dull day without any offer of sunshine for the foreseeable future.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Hybrids.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 17:00

Evenin' all,

I have nearly always liked what I have seen regarding the hybrids that have been made, but I for one do not like the Phalaenopsis with the large spots/blotches.

Do any of you agree with me.

Regards, Rocky.

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From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hybrids.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 17:50

I like the small dots that the French produced 15 or
20 years ago. All of the flowers on a stem looked
alike. Now we have big blotches that appear any ware
on the flower spike. Each flower on a stem looks like
it came from a different gene pool. The new picotee
can be beautiful and rather poor on the same stem.
The hybridizers are looking for something new to make
us buy more. But new does not mean good.

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From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hybrids.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 23:05

Well, Roger, if you want to get rid of it........... New Year is almost upon
us.

Ron

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From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hybrids.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 11:10

Rocky,
Can't say I agree with you but if I could only have one, I would go for a big white, Sues Redlip type, four and a half inch flowers.
Ronbow.

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From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Disappointed
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:00
Source: mail.Orchid Talk List

This is my first flowering of this plant and I must say I am a little disappointed that it has no perfume nor to my mind anything to commend it. Hopefully it will improve with age.
Any comments from the members?
Happy and prosperous New Year to all.
Gordon.

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From: jeff
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:30

Hello Sharon
Yes growing roots do adapt to their environment and as you suggest the structure can change. Under exposure to light the chloroplasts may have a range of different photosynthetic pigments such as chlophyll a , b, c or xanthophyl or others and these give a range of colours . Depending on the growth history roots may have different amounts and types of pigment.Roots can be have quite a wide variety of colour .. just think of carrots ! The ones to avoid are the brown or black dead ones!!!!..
Hope that helps
Jeff

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From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Dennis's orchid.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:40

Thanks for the replyand I apologise for the late response but II've beenaway for a while. The object of my little experiment was to see how the orchid grew in my greenhouse with just water and then next year I will use fertiliser and see the difference.
Hopefully there will be a difference.
Regards from a damp but mild (12C) Devon

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Hybrids.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:40

Hi all,

The two Phalaenopsis flower photos were taken from the Botanical Gardens in Erfurt, Germany. I just wanted to illustrate that some of the hybrids were not that pretty. The one with the large spots was perhaps the best that I have seen, but the flowers with larger spots are quite ugly.

Another hybrid Phalaenopsis that I do not think should even be on the shelf is the one that is trying to grow three lips, and the two petals that are like this do not open fully. It really is a bit of an abortion.

It would be nice if the hybridisers binned these types and kept to the nice looking ones.

But then it is a business, say no more.

Regards, Rocky.

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From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Roots
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:50

Having been away for a holiday ( to exotic Newark on Trent ) I have returned to a full storybook of roots.
There was no mention of the true aerial roots that grow vertically upwards from many Genera but notably Bulbophyllums. These roots grow upwards from a mature plant and do not attempt to anchor on to branches or trunks. They gather old leaves etc. and form a sort of nest of detritus that holds moisture.They are normally a cream colour with a pale green tip and I suppose they are good at photosynthesis.
Take this as another hat thrown in the ring
Regards

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cycnoches Cooperi.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:45

Hi Gordon,

I bought a Cycnoches last year but the flower spike damped off or words to that effect. I look forward very much to its growth pattern in 2007 and if I remember I will tell how it gets on.

Like my Catasetums, and my one Cycnoches..........they are all being tied on to pieces of cork bark.

I am sticking my neck out now, but you know it is always meant in the best way, but I do not like the look of what is in your pot. Do you like it? Are you thinking of repotting it into a type of medium that does not decompose as yours looks at the moment.

I would like to here what you have to say.

Kind regards, Rocky.

P.S. As far as I know all of the Cycnoches are supposed to be scented??!!

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From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:20

I have so far only read through this topic and not
answered at all, but in this instance, I would like to
bring in my tow pence worth... Whilst not an expert on
orchids or any other matter, I would like to say that
the so called "aerial roots" on phals. growing on
clear plastic pots, have the same green coloured tip
as those growing inside the media. I think the reason
is because most orchid's roots have the ability to
photosynthesize...

Well, that´s all I wanted to say.

Francis.

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hybrids.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:45

Hi Rocky,
No, I do not. The so called Harlequins are actually my favourites.
See the pictures attached.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand
PS. Again, we had some lovely rain during the night and early morning.
By lunchtime the clouds were gone and it was bright sunshine for the
rest of the day.

Roger Grier wrote on Thursday, December 28:

Evenin' all,

> I have nearly always liked what I have seen regarding the hybrids that
> have been made, but I for one do not like the Phalaenopsis with the
> large spots/blotches.

> Do any of you agree with me.

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From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Disappointed/Cycnoches cooperii
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 18:55

Hi Gordon -
It looks like a good enough flower − is there just the
one? My (limited to 3 years of flowering) experience
with Cyc. cooperii is that the flowers are quite
fragrant − male flowers (which I believe yours is)
less so than female, but much more plentiful. Male
flowers are also much smaller than the female flowers.
I would describe the scent as a combination of
bananas, nail polish remover, and maybe a hint of cat
spray. But pleasant nonetheless.
Cycnoches are so weirdly attractive, I would certainly
let it go through a couple more bloomings before
getting disillusioned with it.
Regards − Nancy
In bud, lucky me: Clo. warczswiczii x Ctsm. expansum
and Cycnoches warczswiczii

~~~~~~~~~~~
"You can only be young once.
But you can always be immature."
----Dave Barry

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From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Den Speciosum
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:05

Hi Tony!

I know the feeling.

I have just come back to the UK after 56 years abroad and the only
temperatures that are pleasant are those in my orchid house!

Ron

Tony Watkinson wrote on 27 December 2006:

> Hi Rocky
>
> Over the many years that I have had this plant, twenty four in all, I
> have noticed that not all of the bulbs produce a flowering spike.
>
> Your Den speciosum sounds 'normal' to me. I find this happens with mine
> too. I just read your bit about the temps in your 'heated greenhouse' and
> must admit that I am surprised that the Den speciosum bothers to flower
> at all.
>
> I lived in England for the first 14 years of my life and it was much too
> cold for me to flower.
>
> Tony
> In 38C Perth
> Where the Ashes were won

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From: ema.orquideas Perú
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Disappointed
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:50

Hola Gordon: perhaps the flower is hermaphrodita.

In this cases the plant will give you only one or two flowers (like the female).

Regards

Erica

Gordon Walker wrote:

> This is my first flowering of this plant and I must say I am a little
> disappointed that it has no perfume nor to my mind anything to commend
> it. Hopefully it will improve with age. Any comments from the members?
> Happy and prosperous New Year to all. Gordon.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hybrids.
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 02:05

Roger wrote....

> Hi all,

> Another hybrid Phalaenopsis that I do not think should even be on the
> shelf is the one that is trying to grow three lips, and the two petals
> that are like this do not open fully. It really is a bit of an
> abortion.

> It would be nice if the hybridisers binned these types and kept to the
> nice looking ones.

> But then it is a business, say no more.

Who said beauty was in the eye of the beholder? This Dendrobium Thongchai Gold was bought in Bangkok as I felt it was quite attractive. Nice contrast between the colours too.

Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hybrids.
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:40

Hi Rocky,
Shure it is a business to sell plants. I bought this one as an
unflowered seedling, so, nobody knew what would come out of it.
It's difficult to tell whether it's ugly/beautiful or beautiful/ugly.
I took it to a show and it got a ribbon for being the most
outstanding plant on show.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

Roger Grier wrote on Friday, December 29:

Hi all,

> The two Phalaenopsis flower photos were taken from the Botanical
> Gardens in Erfurt, Germany. I just wanted to illustrate that some of
> the hybrids were not that pretty. The one with the large spots was
> perhaps the best that I have seen, but the flowers with larger spots
> are quite ugly.

>
> Regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Hybrids and strange 'reception'.
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 15:30

Hi Tony,

Quite correct, for sure, 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. What looks very nice to one person may not look so go to another.

Your photos came through like on of mine recently. Strange happening !!!

Maybe it is something to do with the weather ???

Hi Peter,

I would not mind the types with larger markings if they were more symmetrical, but then like some of the Odontoglossums, we can't hope for perfect markings. BY the way, your photos came through perfect.

Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Help with a contact.
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:00

Hi to all you 'Oz' pals,

Can any of you please find out and send me some information on Barney Greer.

1. I do like Stanhopeas.

2. My surname could have been misread as early back as my Grandfathers Birth certificate. The ie in Grier could have been ee.

Regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Disappointed/Cycnoches cooperii
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:50

Hi Gordon and other orchid enthusiasts -
Photos of my flowers, male last year and female this
year, are attached. Same plant.
The male flowers were smaller and more fragile in
appearance, about a dozen per inflorescence. The
female flowers I would describe as 'meaty' looking,
quite large, more fragrant, and only 3 per
inflorescence.
There are color differences as well: male flowers deep
mahogany brown, female flowers more maroon.
Your flowers are yellow, mine brown; I think this is
the normal color range. I like both.
The other photo, Cyc. warczswiczii, may be spelled
wrong, but is just 'lagniappe' (or showing off).
Enjoy − Nancy

~~~~~~~~~~~
"Woman was God's second mistake."
---Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
"Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal."
---Leo Tolstoy (1828 − 1910)

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Aerial roots.
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 19:45

Hi again Jeff: I guess my question was more around why some aerial roots seem to take the water while others don't. I have always read the greening of an aerial root when wet to be an indication of water uptake, as they return to white when they dry. Some aerial roots do not exhibit this behaviour and I assume they are not taking in the water. I also assume that this type of velemen is for water vapour only and that they pick up the humidity from the room. Do you know if this is so?
Also, another question about roots that I have is about using the size of the green root tip to gauge the overall condition of the plant. Plants that are resting seem to loose their green tips, while those in active growth have large green tips. Question is: Can you use this to determine when a plant wants to go dormant, or is it more of a response to what we as growers do to change conditions to force a rest? I hope this is clear!!
Cheers
Sharon

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Disappointed
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 20:00

Hi Erica: I have a Cyc peruvianum (photo attached -at the end of its bloom, but I didn't catch it on digital earlier!) that produced only l flower this summer (the other blasted). It did not have a scent and was rather ugly in my opinion, but did last several months. How can you tell if a flower is hermaphrodita or not, and if so, does that meant that all subsequent flowers will be also? Does anyone know if this is a female or male flower?
Thanks for the help
Sharon

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Watkinson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Missing Den
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:05

Hi all

I have no idea what happened to the pic, so here it is again.

This is Den Thongchai Gold 'Montion'. It is a mutated variety of Den Thongchai Gold which usually has a normal flower which is yellow with maroon petals and lip.(I think you will find that this is either a mutation in itself, or a doubling of the ploidy)

The mutation on this flower is called peloric, which causes the flower to try to have three lips. Sharon asked what size the plant was. I guess it's about a foot high.

Enjoy

Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Normal chat.
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:45

Hi Tony,
Your peloric Dendrobe, this is one of the very ones where the two sepals just have a nice alternative colour and do not have lip pieces.....very nice indeed.

Mornin' Nancy,
Male flowers one year and the next year female flowers, and you have done so well, but why 'Mother Nature' does this is anyone's guess, sure is strange.

Hi Peter,
That plant got a ribbon for the most outstanding plant on show???!!! My reaction is that it should have been binned the first time that it flowered, but then as you and I both agree.........the people that made the cross look at it as a money earner. It is a mutation and an ugly one at that. Let's face it, it's a cross that did not work, but enjoy your ribbon my good friend.

Regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: New Year's greetings.
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:10

Another year has flown by, and much information has been exchanged.

Thanks to Tricia, and all members.

Kind regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tina Stagg
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hybrids.
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:25

Hello Peter,

I think that your deformed phalaenopsis is ugly/ugly.

Congratulations on your ribbon but if I had been judging that show you would not have got one!

Regards,
Tina

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: That 'ugly' Phalaenopsis.
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 19:40

Hi all,

Nice to read what you said Tina. I absolutely agree, but what concerns me is the fact that as Peter it got a ribbon for being the most 'outstanding' plant in the show.

It beggars belief. Did the people that give the ribbon have any knowledge of what they were actually looking at???

Sorry Peter, but it was staring them in the face.

I am baffled???

Regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: ema.orquideas Perú
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Disappointed
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:40

Sharon:
This is a female flower of Cycnoches pentadactylon.
Regards

Erica
www.biorquidtropic.com

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: ema.orquideas Perú
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Disappointed
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:45

Hola Sharon:
Your flower is female.
When the Cycnoches or Catasetum feel much stress:
when the plant feels much stress (little water, much light, poor men nutrients, etc) she needs to preserve its species, so it produces feminine flowers to be able to make seeds. I am sending to a photo of my Catasetum tenebrosum, in where there are hermafroditas flowers, feminine and in the end they opened the masculine ones.
The masculine flowers are those that have much perfume to attract the polinizador and thus to command to the polineas to the feminine flowers.
In some cases single they leave hermafroditas flowers, that can be polinizar and be obtained seeds.
The masculine flowers can leave in the next flowering.
Sorry for my english , I used a traductor.RegardsErica

www.biorquidtropic.com

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