Orchid Talk 2006 mailing list messages

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From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: root theroy?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:35

Can we talk about roots? Do we want them (ONC. Sherry baby, Wild cats, brassia and Cats Intermedia, skineri, dowina) to grow as long as they want? I have Some cats growing in a pot and the same ones growing on rough sawn board ( and branches with very coarse bark wititi, and on clay rough tiles a custom her in Costa Rica). And I the ones in pots seem to have the leaves and psudeo bulbs grow larger quicker, but ther roots are more restricted in there growth. The ones on the "rafts" have there unrestricted and they roots grow large, they plants are very healthy put smaller than there brothers of equal age. My green house is in a Cloud forrest plenty of humidity. Are the unrestricted root growths putting thereenergy in growing roots and not leaves and psuedo bulbs? What is the optimium situation?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Jim's roots.
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:15

Having seen plants growing wild on trees and then looking at plants growing in pots I can only suggest this.

Maybe the plants that are growing in pots have a moist compost which may contain feed for a lot longer than an orchid attached to a tree or a clay slab.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] root theroy?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:30

Hi Jim,
Here's my penn'th for what it's worth;
If you had a plant other than an orchid, growing in compost in a pot, or in the garden, would you pull it up to see if it had small roots, big roots or whatever? Of course you wouldn't. You'd simply assume that, so long as it was growing, its roots were doing the job they grew for.

Why, then, should you assume an orchid has too large a root system? So long as the roots look healthy, with appropriately greenish and turgid tips I would prefer to assume that the plant is simply growing what it needs. The fact that roots vary in size according to their substrate could be because the plant has a more efficient root system when on one substrate than on another . . . or it could simply be random variation that you would expect in any species.

I know that orchids (or other plants) can be encouraged to develop (say) more flowers or more foliage by pruning and or clipping but I imagine the result is simply a strategy by the plant in reaction to what is really damage.

If you were to consider the extremes of what you seem to postulate, if you were to chop off all the roots I guess the plant would be disadvantaged. Similarly, cutting off all the leaves would give it an injury to recover from!
I reckon the plant knows best. The only valid reasons for clipping off roots would (I imagine) be to remove fungal or other infection or, maybe, to deliberately stunt a plant.

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] root theroy?
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:30

I'd say it's a matter of taste, mostly. Your plants are clearly enjoying
themselves either way, so if you prefer more flowers, you should of
course pursue whatever makes them produce those. Personally I like the
'wild' look of plants that grow whichever way they can in the
circumstances they have been given.

But I think you observations make sense: when the root are confined to a
pot, they will probably have access to more nutrients, because the
compost in a pot will tend to accumulate nutrients, since the water
doesn't run through quite as freely as on a piece bark.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Sobralias
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:15

A while ago a question was asked of Sobralias so here is another couple on cultivation.
In Ecuador we saw hillsides covered in this orchid and I have since bought a couple. As they were growing in stony, mossy/peat earth I have potted mine in moss/perlite/pumice/bark which looks like the growing medium in Ecuador. Is this correct?
Also are the roots/rhyzomes on the surface or buried?
Thanks from a windy and wet but not too cold Devon.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sobralias
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:30

It sounds as though you had an interesting time in Ecuador, Dennis. Did
you go with an OSGB group or a local travel agent ?
We( spouse and self) have talked of "doing" Ecuador and the Galapagos some
time − although it may never happen as the rather long journey is now more
of a concern than it was when we were younger !
But I will be interested to hear any comments you can make on this.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Specie names
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:55

As it seems very quiet perhaps one of our botanists can explain the endings of specie names. They end in a , um, ae, i, ii, . There must be some logic but it eludes me at the moment.
Regards from Devon in a howling storm.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Specie names
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:05

I am fairly sure that there should be consistency between genus and species
in termination where the plant is named after a person, but with changes
according to sex. So (Mr) Dorman's cattleya becomes Cattleya dormaniana .
(Baroness) Lady Schroder's cattleya becomes C. schroderae .

The neuter ( neutral; ? can't think of the non-sex word here ) yellow
cattleya is C.aurea

Where the specific comes from a characteristic feature − e.g. radicans -
meaning rooting (prolifically) − then consistency is not required. Thus
chinensis − from China , does not have to chime with Barkeria − and you can
ignore the fact that Barkerias don't grow in China − plant collectors used
to tell real whoppers !

Laelia anceps by the way is "ancipitous" − the canes/bulbs have two edges (
I had to look that one up ! )and consequently does not have to be L.ancepae
or L.ancepianana..

I've just noticed that many ( not all) LAELINIAE genera end in A , whereas
ONCIDIUM genera tend to end in UM. So maybe the larger grouping ( would this
be tribe? Or is there a sub-group within tribe which becomes e.g. laeliniae
? ) . also dictates the generic termination − but not always , since
Epidendrum − to quote an obvious example − are Laeliniae

In most cases ( all cases ? ) the termination of the specific matches that
of the generic.

If anyone can be more specific , show me wrong, or explain further, I too
would like to hear .

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Names.
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:05

I always understood Dennis that it went in some sort of pattern. This is a nice way to describe it and not frighten people off.

If its a Dendrob iUM that we are talking about, then the explanatory word would end in UM, such as:

AcinitA superbA
BifrenariA tetragonA
CattleyA maximA
HimantoglossUM longibracteUM

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Specie names
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:40

Hi Dennis,
Part of the secret is that it depends whether or not the name derives from a person's name (Clowesia russelliana Papilionanthe hookerianum, Cyrtopodium andersonii), a location name (Oncidium carthagenense, Encyclia belizensis) or a descriptive characteristic (Oncidium bifolium, Encyclia citrina). I'm not too sure about botanical rules (as opposed to the slightly different zoological ones) but there may also be a category where a random sequence of letters that are pronouncable can also be used. (In zoology, that gets authors off the hook if their latin/greek knowledge is poor! A name then can't be invalidated on grammatical grounds! Not sure if that category exists in botany. Cited properly, a name should provide its date of origin, its original author and any subsequent author of its reassignment to another genus. Whether you want to get deep into nomenclature is another matter but it is reassuring to know that a wealth of info is encapsulated in a name properly given.

No doubt someone will amplify on all this (and the grammatical niceties) but, at least, you can sleep tonight in the knowledge that there is a degree of logic hidden in there! Taxonomists are there to help you rather than confuse you (nottalotta people know that!) If there are no other contributions I suggest you consult The Manual of Cultivated Orchis by Bechtel, Cribb & Launert or any other tome where the history of the name is given with each plant. From memory I think Jay Pfahl's online encyclopaedia of orchids also gives the derivation of the name of each species.

Because so many orchids are artificial hybrids there arises further complication and another set of rules for the derivation of hybrid names and commercial names; again, I suggest you consult Bechtel Cribb and Launert p.33 (in my edition) for the secret of these names or a text dedicated to nomenclature. (Maybe also buy a bedside reading lamp and some new specs!!!!!)
John

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sobralias
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 20:00

Geoff, I went with a group from the OSGB on a tour organised with
Ecuagenera. We, all 9 of us, had a fabulous experience. Ecuagenera's
organisation could not befaulted. The guides knowledge was extensive and a
very safe driver. The accomodation was clean and, like the food, was plain.
We covered 1800 kms. coverig Ecuador from Lita in thenorth to South of Loja
in the south.We must have seen 200/300 orchid plants in situ.
At 73 with a duff leg missed out on about 4 climbs − thats all.
I would not advise it if there was no real interest in the country ( my wife
did not come)
OSGB are thinking of a tour in 2008 but Ecuagenera do tours for 2 or 3
people. their web site gives more info.
I'll dig out the picture of ''sobralia hill'' and post it over the w/e.
Regards from a dark Devon(its 8.00pm)

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Sobralia
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 13:55

As promised here is a picture of the hillside covered in Sobralia rosea and a pic. of S. rosea.The plant stems were about a metre high'
Regards from Devon in brilliant sunshine

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sobralias
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 17:50

That's very helpful Dennis − thanks. I have printed out this message and put
it in my "holiday ideas " box .
I know we are going to China for my 75th − next year ,but superstitiously we
don't plan more than a year ahead although we do allow pipe dreams − which
include a world cruise ( if we can find a really exciting itinerary going to
lots of places we have never visited -difficult ) for a significant wedding
anniversary the following year , and Galapagos was very faintly pencilled in
for my wife's 80th the year after.... we'll see whether I really do live for
ever as my personal trainer tells me I will, and since spouses survive
husbands by 3 years , she should be OK if I am......

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sobralia
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 17:50

Quite an amazing sight − what was it Darwin said about rare but
occasionally locally prolific to the exclusion of all else ?
I have seen something like it up in Cameron Highlands ( Malaysia) with , I
think, Arundina bambusaefolia, or certainly something looking much like it
-( in case anyone floors me with Arundina being a meso-american genus -
since there is something similar growing in most wet ditches in say Costa
Rica − maybe they are sobralias)

From: Rudolf Günnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Specie names
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:25

Geoff is on the right trace I think , the key is the Latin language.
Linné developed a system for botanical names , the ’Binominal
Nomenclature'. Every species is described by two terms and every
combination is allowed only once.
First term describes the genus and the second term (Epitheton) the
species. The language is Latin and names / terms that don't come from
the Latin language will be changed to Latin language with Latin
suffixes.
The suffixes are different due to sex and other features. But please
don't ask me more I never had Latin lessons in my lifetime.
There is one important difference between botany and zoology (among
others) − in botany the terms for genus and species must be different.
In zoology the can be the same (i.e. eagle owl − Bubo bubo)

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Pleiones are astored for the winter.
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:35

I'd like to tahnk you for your advice regarding the
winter storage of my pleiones.

As you adviced me, I have now taken them all off their
plastic take-away containers and have been wrapped in
newspaper, labelled, and are now waiting for spring in
the bottom of my fridge, where we never put any
vegetables, anyway!

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Laelia lobata
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:55

This is just to brighten-up your grey November days.
It opened this morning and the temperature is about 30 deg. C.
Enjoy it.
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sobralia
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 15:45

I think the name you are looking for is Arundina graminifolia, otherwise
known as the bamboo orchid.

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sobralia
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:20

Dennis,
Your photo's are similar in aspect to roadcuts and anthropogenic
meadows [one-time pastures and coca fields] just below cloud forest
that I studied in the Nor Yungas, Bolivia. Sobralia spp. seem to
commonly co-dominate such steep sites with several species of pink
and lilac colored reedstem Epidendrum. I am curious if the slopes
that you observed also had the Epidendrum growing mixed with species
of Pleurothallis, Oncidium, Zygopetalum, Elleanthus, and Encyclia, as
observed in Bolivia.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Laelia lobata
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:05

From: roy white
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Pictures
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:40

I always read the 'E's and know some of the contributors, but can not find any pictures, Help.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sobralia
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:25

Paul, I didn't look that closely but from what I remember this particular hillside was so dense with sobralias that not even grass or ferns were growing between the stems of sobralai.
Regards from a wet and windy Devon

Dennis,
Your photo's are similar in aspect to roadcuts and anthropogenic meadows [one-time pastures and coca fields] just below cloud forest that I studied in the Nor Yungas, Bolivia. Sobralia spp. seem to commonly co-dominate such steep sites with several species of pink and lilac colored reedstem Epidendrum. I am curious if the slopes that you observed also had the Epidendrum growing mixed with species of Pleurothallis, Oncidium, Zygopetalum, Elleanthus, and Encyclia, as observed in Bolivia.

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sobralias
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:10

From my own experience Sobralias grow in anything. Your mix, as described above, sounds good. They grow in any ordinary
Cymbidium mix, in plain riversand with some compost in it and also in sphagnum moss with polystyrene beads.
The roots/rhyzomes are just under the surface, and they like it wet, humid and warm. My S. macrantha grows to about
1.5 mtrs. tall, and each flower lasts just one day.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: ema.orquideas Perú
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Laelia lobata
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:20

Hi Peter:
I have one Laelia lobata "Perfecta", and I made a cross with my Cattleya maxima Las Lulus.The seedlings  are growing very fast.
Regards
Erica
Lima-Perú

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Vandofinetia Pat Arcari nuit bleue / Neost. Lou Sneary 'Lea'
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:05

This picture of Neost. Lou Sneary 'Lea' (Neof. falcata
x Ryn. coelestis) is a nice dark pink, but some clones
are blue and sometimes white. It's nice to have a
member of the Vanda tribe that is small. Mine has
three spikes and is just starting to open up.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Vandofinetia Pat Arcari nuit bleue / Neost. Lou Sneary 'Lea'
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:05

Hello,
Your Vandofineta is indeed lovely, but the effect of the picture is I think
spoilt by your trade mark which may I suggest is too big, too close and too
obvious. I do enjoy the pictures you post of your flowers and plants but
have for some time thought that your little man very often spoilt the
effect.
May I respectfully suggest that you place a much smaller image of him in or
on a lower corner, rather in the way a artist would sign his work, but what
ever you do, please keep showing them to us.
kindest regards,
Ronbow.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Pictures
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:40

I don't know why you are missing the images, Roy − but you should be able to
see them on the web-site if nowhere else. Go to
www.orchid-talk.co.uk/archives/2006/images − you have to search by date (
year/month) but all except the most recent are there.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Vandofinetia Pat Arcari nuit bleue / Neost. Lou Sneary 'Lea'
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:55

There are several named clones of Lou Snearly which have been meristemmed -
I have "Hong Kong" , "Kultana" and somebody's yellow − but alas mostl
labels have faded , and they are easily confusable with most of the other
primary Neofinetia crosses ( "Twinkle" etc − even the size seems to vary
between the Neo' size and much larger according to how badly I have grown
them .
I must say I am amused by your copyright (?) man pointing to the top flower.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2006 Archived Messages

15—21 November