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2006 Archived Messages


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MONTHDATEDATEDATEDATEMONTHDATEDATEDATEDATE
January 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 February 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-28
March 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 April 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
May 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 June 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
July 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 August 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
September 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 October 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
November 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 December 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31

August 22—31

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] problems and maybe some answers
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 00:05

When I started using a computer my first email address
was the one that the server gave me 'free'. When I
changed servers I lost the address book. I then
started Yahoo and Hotmail for my email and my servers
email lies dormant. I have had three servers in the
last six years and only the first one posed a problem.
And as for free web sites, I never use my servers
'free' sites. I don't want to be married to my
server. My first web site is a free MSN product
(http://groups.msn.com/tropicalgardenpics/_whatsnew.msnw)
that has one template. All of the sites in this group
look the same. A few months ago Office Live, another
Gates product, offered a Beta web site that was free
to all while it was in the Beta form. The weakest of
the three levels well remain free after the Beta time
stops. My site is:
http://togofcoralgables.com/default.aspx and it will
remain free. Even my domain name is free. I know how
to use Front Page and Dream Weaver but I prefer my new
site that uses a template from Office Live. My two
sites are linked so I just doubled my file limit.

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From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: 3 orchids to view and one to name...
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:45

1 is Christensoniana vietnamica − a pretty little thing − vandaceous I
suppose ( are there any monopodials which are not ? Can't think of any ,
off-hand.

2 is a nice Asco'da now in flower − which I call Orangeade "Hotlips"

3 is an unusually coloured Vanda − a well-known one in Thailand, although
most growers other than specialists here have only ever seen the usual
blue-p[urple V.Rothschildina or other coerulea crosses. This one is V.
Kultana Gold "Green" − a top cutting of the original .

No 4 is a lost label , which I think I have shown before, and I wonder if
anyone can put a name to it for me. Presumably a Miltassia, although rather
small for this ; maybe an odontocidium then ? Suggestions ?

geoff

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From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Ron's dilema !!!!!
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:55

Thanks, Rocky, for your ’help’ or should I say, incitement!

Talking of ’naughty humorous’ comments, I had a Stanhopea some years ago
but, when it produced 2 flowers, hanging down, as they do, she ’urged’ me to
get rid of it because they looked too much like, er.. shall we say, part of
the male fertilisation equipment!

Ron

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From: Bill Haldane
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: OrchidTalk
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:25

Hello Ron!
Earlier this year Dennis Read and I visited Ecuagenera in Ecuador as part of the OSGB Travel group and there we saw the composts being used in the nursery.All were made from local materials including local pumice for many of the mixes.Although we have yet to use pumice I expect to use it in conjunction with sphagnum and perhaps small/medium bark for some subjects.Perhaps we can compare notes when we have some growing experience.
Regards Bill Haldane

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From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: OrchidTalk
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:55

The point I think, is that orchid nurseries using compost by the lorry load
ALWAYS use locally available material . Nothing else is economic, That’s why
nurseries near volcanoes „ past or present use pumice. That’s why those NZ
guys use sphagnum. Thats why the Dutch use that funny black cotton wool
stuff ( they dig it out of drained polders I believe ) That’s why we use
fir bark..

Of course we don’t have to „ as amateurs we need compost in much smaller
quantities and are prepared to pay far more „ so we have the luxury of using
whatever we please ; but remember if it has to be imported from the other
side of the world , you ain’t saving the world when you use it ( half
joking , but only half ) „ but then I suppose a lot of our orchids actually
come from the other side of the world too „ I mean the actual plants, not
the parents „ so I’ll shut up about that , lest I expose myself as a bigger
idiot than I really am.

geoff.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 3 orchids to view and one to name...
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:45

Geoff, I also have a Christensoniana vietnamica but it has not flowered yet. I looked for a picture of it on the internetand in a very convoluted way was informed that its true name is Ascocendra christensonia which comes fro Vietnam. I'll go back on the hunt.
Regards from Devon

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From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Fw: [OrchidTalk] 3 orchids to view and one to name...
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:55

Sorry, got it wrong. Dennis

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From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: fantastic cirrhopetalum
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:55

I have been doing work on my web-site which I intend to relaunch
(eventually) and just completed adding this Cirrho − and just had to show
you the picture of the upper part of the flower..

They really are amazing .

geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: OrchidTalk
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:15

Hello Bill and thanks

My new orchid house has had to be slightly remodelled to correct a design
mistake of my own making „ well, it is only the 3rd that I have built! „ and
once that is finished I intend to do a big re-potting job, hopefully
starting in about 10 days time. I’ll let you know how I get on.

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: John W Stanley
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Ron's dilema !!!!!
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:45

Well Ron,
this is more than a dilemma, it's almost a crisis,
Without getting into the mind boggling visual association between stanhopeas and whatever your lady had in mind. .
I wonder if she is aware of the reason orchids are actually called orchids?
I suggest you put all dictionaries away or you'll end up growing fuschias!
Orchid gets its name from the Greek orchis, meaning "testicle" so she isn't a million miles off course.
Bear me in mind when you have to dispose of the entire lot!
John

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:10

Geoff.
Have you got the full name for the plant?
Gordon.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 3 orchids to view and one to name...
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:10

This business about ‘ is really called’ makes me laugh. As I am sure you
know Dennis, but some members of the group may not , the correct name of any
plant is often a matter of opinion.

An example from another genus is Paph liemanianum „ so named by Fowlie ;
which is the same plant as P.chamberlainianum by Sander and also as
P.victoria-reginae by Sander ( looking at another specimen − but Fowlie says
both specimens are of the same genus − Sander thought differently) . But
Braem says that these are all P. chamberlainianum var liemanianum .

Every time there is a name change, the botanist will cite his reasons and
authorities and frequently the original botanists giving the earlier names
are no longer alive to argue „ so they lose the argument. When they are
alive „ they often disagree . Thus „ another Paph „ P.markii (Braem) is
still so-called in Germany , except by dealers who find it sells better
under the name P.tigrinum (Cribb) . I have had the pleasure (?) of hearing
both Cribb and Braem's arguments on this question , but I believe they
would not agree to meet to argue against one another at a Paph. Soc. Meeting
( quite wisely , I think − Braem is the guy who is said to have punched a
German Customs Official who was being over-officious about importing a
dried, pressed, 100 year old herbarium specimen, on the ground that it
needed CITES ). What a exciting world we do live in !

Going back to Christensonia vietnamica ( corrected name ), this was
discovered by the Czech botanist Jiri Haager. The genus was created in 1993
and named after Eric Christenson ( author of the monograph on Phalaenopsis
species) in recognition of his work on vandaceous orchids of the sub-tribe
Aeridiniae especially perhaps, in Vietnam. "The species shares
characteristics with both Aerides" ( as those who know Aerides will see from
the side view of the flowers) "and also Rynchostylis and is thought to be
most closely related to Vanda flabellata ( often sold as Aer. Flabellata)" .

The picture at http://www.orchidworks.com/orchids/sept00/cool008.htm looks
very like my plant , although there is room for some doubt , when one
picture I found on the web shows a solid pink flower ( maybe there is a
concolor variant I have ? ) , another shows what looks more like
Brasso.nodosa , and a third site − offering plants for sale says "like an
Ascocenda but smaller leaves with large green and white flowers . My plant
has leaves up to 2 inches long , and the flowers are 3cm span at the most !
Not large , in my book − but very charming.

Geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Ron's dilema !!!!!
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:10

On the other hand, if ‘fuchsia’ was pronounced the way it ought to be „
bearing in mind it is named after someone called fuchs .

geoff

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From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:15

Sorry I didn't say , although the link gave it − Cirrhopetalum collettii .
Maybe it ought to be a Bulbophyllum nowadays − some botanists want to make
all Citrrho's into Bulbos − others are busy cutting up Bulbophyllum into a
dozen genera. I have ordered B. virescens ( I think it is this one) and
learn that it is now Mastostigion virescens, or something like that − if it
comes , it will be a Bulbophyllum in my collection. Another of the dozen
bulbos I have ordered to be collected at Weston is now ( per Jay Pfahl ) in
yet another genus which I can't even find in Wildcatt !

In my greenhouse , plants have labels ( if at all) bearing the name which I
recognise, and so that I will know what the plant is. If this means that I
grow Odontoglossum grande − and you want to call it Rossioglossum grande -
that's fine by me . Its my plant , and I'll label it how I please.. That is
my solution to the "shall we change all orchid names or not " dilemma.

Geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: OrchidTalk
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:20

So what did you do wrong Ron ?

Geoff

Ron Newstead wrote:

Hello Bill and thanks

My new orchid house has had to be slightly remodelled to correct a design
mistake of my own making „ well, it is only the 3rd that I have built! „ and
once that is finished I intend to do a big re-potting job, hopefully
starting in about 10 days time. I’ll let you know how I get on.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:10

A fantastic flower and a great photo too.

I did not get the posting titled 3 orchids to view and one to name .. can someone resend it to me please?

Andy

Geoffrey Hands wrote:

I have been doing work on my web-site which I intend to relaunch (eventually) and just completed adding this Cirrho − and just had to show you the picture of the upper part of the flower..

They really are amazing .

geoff

Note from Tricia − re-sent as requested

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From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] photos
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:40

Thanks for the warning James − I see what you mean about it's ease of flowering. I notice this morning that, not only is the current spike still looking perfect after 5 weeks, but it has a new one coming as well.

As for the temperatures − I don't keep the orchid house warm enough for vandas − winter night minimum of 13 degrees and in the past I have only grown V Rothschildiana. This was because I thought that was the best for cattleyas − my main interest. However from the discussion some time back about this I realise that my catts might do even better at a higher temperature, so I am going to increase the MNW to 15.

I shall be at BOGA on Saturday and on the look out for a few more Ascocendas to try. I love the colour range and the fact that they stand so well.

Andy

James H wrote:

i bought a Ascocenda Princess Mikasa Blue off ebay last year and it bloomed 3 times in one year then up and died, was growing like mad had 4 new leaves that year and roots down to the floor then suddenly started drying out even tho i was watering the same and same hummidity, this happened in winter when my house temps were a bit low so i think that this plant is sensitive to low temps, just a warning its a beautiful plant and i wish i still had mine, it was the easiest ascocenda that i have ever bloomed.

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From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 3 orchids to view and one to name...
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:15

Geoff, As I said − sorry. Just put it down to a senior moment or two glasses
of a good red wine after a good dinner. Christensonianum vietmanica has been
crossed with Ascocendra and that is where my old brain got confused. As an
aside Mr. Christenson has a great sense of hunour as well as helping with
plant identification after my trip to Ecuador.
Regards from Devon

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:05

Geoff says:

Someone told me once that Rhyncholaelia digbyana
smells just a wonderful as the Brassavola digbyana -
and she's right...and I've just learned that all of my
Laelias purpurata are now something else (for now).
A really arresting flower, by any name.
Regards − Nancy

~~~~~~~~~~~~
"They [orchids] are hot and moist in operation,
under the dominion of Venus,
and provoke lust exceedingly."
--Susan Orlean

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From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Ron's dilema !!!!!
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:15

By Jove,
you are quick Geoff , but you stole my fire!
(However, with my mis-type I deserved it 'cos the point was lost!)

John

"Geoffrey Hands" wrote:

On the other hand, if "fuchsia" was pronounced the way it ought to be -
bearing in mind it is named after someone called fuchs ..

geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: What's in a name (was: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:45

Just so Geoff's opinion about orchid names doesn't stand all alone -
it's clear from many of of your postings that you have little regard for
the scientific names, and of course we are all entitled to call our
plants whatever catches our fancy; Peter, Paul and Mary, why not?

However, as I suspect most of us know, the purpose with scientific plant
names is not to please the public or even the orchid enthusiast, but to
represent the scientific knowledge about how the plants are related.
With the advent of better tools for analysing DNA, our knowledge of
these things is growing rapidly, and the orchids are being revised and
rearranged as a result.

This may cause distress and anxiety unless you are of a strong and
ruthless disposition, but fortunately you can always just ignore it all
- just like the professional gardeners, who don't give a toss about that
sort of things anyway as long as it has bright colours and can be
massproduced.

/jan

Geoffrey Hands wrote:
> Sorry I didn't say , although the link gave it − Cirrhopetalum collettii .
> Maybe it ought to be a Bulbophyllum nowadays − some botanists want to make
> all Citrrho's into Bulbos − others are busy cutting up Bulbophyllum into a
> dozen genera. I have ordered B. virescens ( I think it is this one) and
> learn that it is now Mastostigion virescens, or something like that − if it
> comes , it will be a Bulbophyllum in my collection. Another of the dozen
> bulbos I have ordered to be collected at Weston is now ( per Jay Pfahl ) in
> yet another genus which I can't even find in Wildcatt !

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Ron's dilema !!!!!
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:45

Sorry, John, after spending a lot of 'time' building a new orchid house, I
shall not be disposing of my orchids, neither shall I mention about the
Greek origin..........

Ron

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From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: OrchidTalk
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 00:05

Basically, the problem arose from the fact that my previous orchid houses
had earth floors covered with loose stones and this one had a base of bath
stone filled in with concrete.

The others had natural drainage and this one did not!

Oops!

Ron

Geoffrey Hands wrote:

So what did you do wrong Ron ?

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What's in a name (was: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:20

Since /jan's message sounded − intentionally or not − a little critical ,
let me say a little more...

I have been growing orchids long enough to see names changed on many species
, in some cases., changed several times. And what does "changed" mean ?
Some taxonomic botanist proposes a change ? That's what it often means !
A proposal, which may or may not be accepted by the scientific community .

However, there are two groups of people interested in orchids ; there are
scientists, usually botanists, and there are horticulturalists . Growers are
primarily in the second group , and the interests of the two groups are
often/usually quite distinct. Why should I conform to scientists ideas ?
They don't want to conform to horticulturalists ideas !

The name is important to identify the plant . Who to ? Fellow orchid
growers and maybe orchid judges , and also orchid nurseries ( who are of
course also horticulturalists, not scientists ). If I show any of these
folk a plant and say it is Sophronitis purpurata , they will do a double
take and say " oh, yes, what we call Laelia purpurata "- assuming they have
had time to read journals over the last few months. Otherwise they will say
, nonsense, it's a Laelia... So which is the "right" name ? For my purposes
- and this is me − Geoff Hands , orchid enthusiast speaking, not someone at
Kew , Laelia purpurata is the right name .

And I am prepared to bet that if I circulate a dozen cattleya nurseries in
USA ( there are not a dozen in Europe to go to ) and ask if they have any
Sophro. purpurata in stock, at least 6 would say, we don't list it , and if
were to ask for L. purpurata they would all have it. So which is the right
name ? For my purposes − no contest.

Even if I put the plant up for an award to the esteemed RHS Orchid
Committee, with several high powered botanists on it , they will say , yes (
or no) we will ( or won't) give you an award , " and by the way, we shall
award it as S. purpurata , not L. purpurata" ( providing Dr Cribb or whoever
happens to be there that day, agrees with that particular proposal of name
changing....)

And then we come to the fascinating problem of what to do with all the
150,000 registered names − of hybrids. Are SophroLaelias all to be
re-registered as Sophros ? What do we do if ( this is a hypothetical
example) there already is a SL Psyche and also − distinct − an L . Psyche .
Both will then be S. Psyche , but the two are quite different . ...
Potinaras would almost if not quite cease to exist , and become
sophro-brasso-catts ( there may be a one word name for that, but I can't
think of it ) This problem is so difficult that the "great and the good"
have no idea how to solve it , and have called a major conference to discuss
it − and it's a fair bet it will break up with no decision regarding
existing registrations. So why should we be in a rush to change names at
all on the plants we grow and enjoy .

I won't bore you quoting Shakespeare , but he did get it right all those
years ago when he got to Romeo and Juliet, Act 2 , Scene 2 , Juliet
speaking..."What's in a name ?....( hint − she was talking about roses )

Geoff

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From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: OrchidTalk
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:50

There are pros and cons Ron „ I have found that some of my benches have sunk
a little , into the gravel on top of the earth , which is a minor problem
with my hydroponic tanks „ full at one end, empty at the other !

But I had concrete at the Barn , and they tended to get slimy with algae.
Maybe a few inches of gravel on top of concrete is the best of both worlds,
since water on the gravel drains to the bottom and slowly evaporates, whilst
being safe to walk on.

Geoff

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From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: mainly for Geoff
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:55

Hi Geoff

Thanks for sending these again − no problem this time! I don't know what my spam filter could have objected to.
I can't help with the Miltassia (?) − I guess the problem with these multigenerics is it is difficult to know where to start.
I do like the Asco and the Vanda − fantastic colours. Are they some ot the consignment you bought from Thailand and wrote about some time back? I go to Thailand most years and I am very tempted to bring some back next time. Do you know if the Mokaras and Arandas are as easy to grow?

I am sending this via Orchid-Talk as perhaps others may be interested/ can answer this latter question.

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] mainly for Geoff
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:20

Yes „ the way to get plants which you like is to buy them in flower ! Then
you know what they really can do , not what the breeder optimistically hopes
for , or what the dealer thinks is a good description to sell the plants (
cynic that I am)

I bought from Kultana . Near the airport (Bangkok) − unlike T Orchids or
Kasems place(s), one of which was a 2 hour taxi ride. I got CITES from them,
for so many Vanda hybrids, and sent them a bankers draft for the basic sum
„ assuming I would be buying the cheapest, with my CITES UK import forms
Then I visited them a couple of days before I would be leaving Bangkok ,
walked around, picked the plants I wanted, and hung them all up on a pole
for them to look at and price ( I think standard plants in flower were $5 ,
meristems, top cuttings, and specially good ones were $6 „ each Paid them
the balance, and left them to prepare and pack, clear CITES, obtain phyto,
clear customs, and hand them over to me when I was ready to check-in for my
flight. Of course the details vary from time-to-time. Once I collected the
boxes from the nursery and took them to the airport and left them in the
left luggage, and so on. Also, I now worry less about paying them before I
have my hands on the plants, after several entirely satisfactory
experiences, and seeing the scale of their business and how long they have
been running, etc.

The only disadvantage with my procedure is that if there is something
fantastic I would actually have liked, but its not in flower when I get
there, I miss it ; but I think my system is better than just working from
the catalogue. But it's up to you.

By the way, they „ and maybe most if not all of the other big nurseries say
‘wholesale only’ but that means that they don’t want to bother with someone
buying one or two plants and taking up half a day of their time. They were
happy to sell me a standard box load „ which may be 40 or 50 plants .

I'd love to do it again , but don't have the space for more than the odd one
or two extra hanging plants.

Mokaras − they are very easy to flower. I have one which has produced one
spike after another successively ever since I bought it 5 years ago -
currently it is starting to produce a spike whist the previous one is still
good. I think all the ones I have, flower regularly.
Arandas − I used to think they were impossible − I recently just junked
two plants ( same cross) which I had raised_from flask -they were almost
six feet high − some 15 years (?) with leaves over their entire height ,
and had never flowered , never looked like trying to flower, whatever I did
; but I have just one or two which I have bought in flower, and which seem
to be able to repeat ; I guess it depends on how much influence the
respective parents have on the hybrid,

Geoff

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From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: FW: FW: Horticultural Exposition in Thailand
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:10

Andy and maybe others will perhaps be interested in the following.

Ron N

From: PETER WILLIAMS
Sent: 23 August 2006 13:50
To: Ron Newstead
Subject: RE: FW: Horticultural Exposition in Thailand

Hello Ron,

We have two days arranged to visit the expo for members of our January tour.
They are having two weekly shows highlighting different plants and in mid
January its the orchid promotion week. I have all the details re the orchid
displays etc: and they are promoting it as the biggest display of orchids in
south east Asia! Should be quite a spectacle.

Regards,

Peter.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: OrchidTalk
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:10

Well, Geof, I have now put waterproofed stone slabs on top of the concrete
so I’ll just have to wait and see. Since they are on a very gentle slope, I
am hoping that the water will make its way to the gulley and thence outside.
We’ll see.

But I’ll remember your suggestion.

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] mainly for Geoff
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:10

1. Where can I get my hands on a Mokara?

2. Andy, My Norton software has provided my computer with an Anti-Spam file
into which it puts all the things which it suspects − which was how I
discovered that it had started to treat messages from the 'List' as Spam.
But all was well because I was able to rescue the messages and teach the
software that the List was OK.

Ron N

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What's in a name (was: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:10

Here. Here!

As one who has never felt that the name of a beautiful orchid is its most
important feature, I feel that it is profoundly irritating to have new names
thrust upon my unwilling memory!

Ron N

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From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What's in a name (was: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:10

...and Thus Spake Zarathustra. Geoff, you rock!

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What's in a name (was: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:15

Well, Barbara, what has Nietsche got to do with orchids?

Ron N

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] mainly for Geoff
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 19:40

People selling ‘vandas’ at shows, usually have a mix of Asco’das.Vandas ,
Mokaras etc „ all of which are strap leaved and similar in appearance, even
in flower sometimes !. The real large flowered Vandas are the only ones with
very large ( over say 8 or 9cm) completely circular flowers and the
Mokaras tend to be much more 5-bladed propeller shape „ see two pics
attached − which I have just taken for the purpose.

Geoff

Ps Went to the Boga Fayre today. Smaller than in previous years, but bought
a few interesting species from a couple of different German nurseries.

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From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] FW: FW: Horticultural Exposition in Thailand
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 19:50

If this is The Doi Tung project in Thailand, there is an interesting piece
on it in the AOS journal Orchids for August 2006.

I only paid mild interest , as Joyce is rather anti-flights at present .
She has been saying ‘no-more long haul ‘ ever since her 75th birthday , and
I’ve been wheedling her for years and persuading her that it really is
worthwhile to make just one more flight, but recent developments have rather
reinforced her ideas, so for the next best part of a year „ as far as our
holiday plans go , it’s a case of Dover would do for a port of departure ,
but Southampton’s better , ‘Cornwall is a lovely place’ , ‘I’ve always
wanted to drive to Venice taking a week on the journey’ etc,

Geoff

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From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What's in a name (was: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 20:05

Well, Ron, at some point in my youth, I probably would have said "What
hasn't to do with Nietzsche?" At this juncture, I would retort, "What hasn't
to do with orchids?" Eternal recurrence; Friedrich would no doubt have
approved. However, in this instance, I was merely paying homage to Geoff's
response to the naming conundrum by likening him to Zarathustra, whose
wisdom spanned the ages. Simply put, I enjoyed Geoff's rebuttal on the
naming issue.

Or Ron, had you any thoughts on Nietzsche and orchids? We could play the 6
Degrees of Separation game with Nietzsche and orchids and see what the crowd
comes up with.

Barbara

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From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] mainly for Geoff
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:20

Thanks Ron

I have now sorted out my spam filters and hope no more problem with OT messages

Andy

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From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] FW: FW: Horticultural Exposition in Thailand
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:25

Thanks Ron. I agree this should be spectacular and if I was there in Jan I would certainly go. However I tend to go in Feb/March. I can usually only get 3 or 4 weeks and going in January would mean being here for Feb − something I avoid as much as possible.

Andy

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From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:25

Hi Geoff,
Could you send a picture of the whole flower?
Thank you
Peter from Bloubergstrand

Geoffrey Hands wrote:

I have been doing work on my web-site which I intend to relaunch (eventually) and just completed adding this Cirrho − and just had to show you the picture of the upper part of the flower..

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From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Miltonia moreliana 'Lizzie' AM/AOS
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:45

There are three pots in this picture. I have 25 more
pots of this clone. They multply very quickly. This
clone pays for almost all of my pots and potting
media plus half of all my new plants.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] FW: FW: Horticultural Exposition in Thailand
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:15

I know the feeling, Andy. I expect to be in Florida in February, 2007, also
2008, when they put on the International Orchid Show.

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Miltonia moreliana 'Lizzie' AM/AOS
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:15

Jordan, what a beautiful little earner!

Ron

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From: jan
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What's in a name (was: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:30

Just back from a short trip away; nothing to do with orchids, I'm afraid.

Geoff − yes, I did intend to sound critical; not about you as a person,
but about the attitude I sometimes feel I can read in laypeople's (of
which I am one when it comes to orchids) opinions about scientists,
science and scientific results. I actually find it offending when people
simply brush aside science, often with a slightly contemptuous 'who
cares about eggheads' style of remark.

This aside − I can easily sympathise with the viewpoint, that orchid
names and name changes are too frustrating to deal with. This
frustration is actually one of the reasons why I stay away from hybrids
- I simply can't be bothered with the tangle of gardener names that
aren't even governed by the few rules used by botanists, or so it seems
to me.

But as you say, you don't have to; people can choose to stick with
whichever was the first name they came across. After all, what most
people enjoy is not the scientific knowledge about how they are related,
but their beauty as flowers.

Geoffrey Hands wrote:
[...]
> Some taxonomic botanist proposes a change ? That's what it often means !
> A proposal, which may or may not be accepted by the scientific community .
>
I think you are mixing things a bit − true, scientific names change, and
before each change is accepted there was a proposal, but to say that all
these scientific name changes are 'only proposals' is simply not
correct. Once a name has been accepted it is intended to be THE name -
unfortunately the nature of scientific research is such that what was
intended to be rock-solid will often later turn out to be built on sand,
especially in an area as orchids, where the traditional concepts of
species and genus may not even be all that well suited.

> However, there are two groups of people interested in orchids ; there are
> scientists, usually botanists, and there are horticulturalists . Growers are
> primarily in the second group , and the interests of the two groups are
> often/usually quite distinct. Why should I conform to scientists ideas ?
> They don't want to conform to horticulturalists ideas !
>
Why horticulturalists conform to scientific ideas? Well, they try to,
don't they? Possibly because they think it is after all better to
something that will potentially 'hold up in court', so to speak. As for
why scientists don't listen to horticulturalists, that is simple, I
think. The interest and expertise of the scientist are the science of
orchids, just like the interest of the horticulturalist is in making
gardens etc that are beautiful/functional or whatever. And just like you
wouldn't have much reason to listen to the scientific explanation about
what is a beautiful garden or how best to arrange flowers, the botanist
has no reason to ask a gardener about the intricacies of how orchids are
related.

> And then we come to the fascinating problem of what to do with all the
> 150,000 registered names − of hybrids. Are SophroLaelias all to be
> re-registered as Sophros ? What do we do if ( this is a hypothetical
> example) there already is a SL Psyche and also − distinct − an L . Psyche .
> Both will then be S. Psyche , but the two are quite different . ...
> Potinaras would almost if not quite cease to exist , and become
> sophro-brasso-catts ( there may be a one word name for that, but I can't
> think of it ) This problem is so difficult that the "great and the good"
> have no idea how to solve it , and have called a major conference to discuss
> it − and it's a fair bet it will break up with no decision regarding
> existing registrations. So why should we be in a rush to change names at
> all on the plants we grow and enjoy .
>
What to do about hybrid names is not a scientific problem at all, that
one belongs squarely with whoever lives from producing them. Hybrids are
simply not botanically interesting, especially since what nature has
already provided us with in the case orchids, is so bountiful. Botany is
after all one of the natural sciences. And hybrid names are only the tip
of the iceberg, really, when you consider the other tricks that are
employed, such as creating cultivars with deviating chromosome numbers
(triploids, tetraploids etc).

Your jibe about 'the great and the good' who don't even have an idea of
how to solve the problem of hybrid naming is misplaced. Whatever
problems there are with hybrids, they have nothing to do with botany or
taxonomy; they are purely of commercial and logistical impotance. Apart
from that, I don't think having to sort out a mere 150000 names would
daunt the botanical community. The millions to tens of millions of
species of life − mostly unknown − that are in existence in nature
haven't put any scientist off yet.

So what if you bought a Laelia purpurata and I bought a Sophronitis
purpurata? To you it will always be a Laelia and to me a Sophronitis,
and we would never be able to agree that we had the same species, thus
making it impossible to exchange views about how to grow it etc. No, the
scientific names aren't always the easiest to follow, and you may not
like them much, but they are all we have, when you get right down to it,
and they do enable us to talk about things, once we've sorted out the
confusion about what to call them.

/jan

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Miltonia moreliana
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:20

Last year I bought a couple of divisions of M. moreliana from Geoff. Just to let you know the first to flower has one open and three to come and the second has four to come. The one in flower is at least twice the size of my aged original species. Thanks for dividing your plant Geoff.
Regards from Devon

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] mainly for Geoff
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:40

I got several very nice vandaceous types at the BOGA Fayre including this
one Vascostylis Thai Sky.

I see what you mean Geoff about buying them in flower so you know what you
are getting. Apart from the colour they vary greatly in flower size and
that is not at all obvoius from photos. I have a Rhynchocentrum which in
photos looks similar to ascocendas but the flowers are about 1/2 cm (1/4 in)
across − dainty and I like it but not what I expected when I bought it.

I also don't really care for the vandas with really huge flowers.

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: cattleya group
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:50

My cattleyas have been really enjoying the summer weather. This is a group I took yesterday. It was very warm where I took the photo and the perfume was intoxicating − even ones like Hazel Boyd − the big bronze one- that don't usually smell were perfumed.

It is not easy to take group photos − some not lit well and impossible to adjust colours but it gives an indication of the range of sizes

Andy

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Questions.
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:00

First question is for Andy.

Andy, can you please describe the medium that you have your Cattleyas growing in. It looks like Seramis plus some other ingredient...............not that I would ever change, but I am interested. And how is what I call 'Lipstick Lady' doing? My two plants are in sheath and the buds are visible.

Second question is for those of you that have Vandas and the many crosses on that Genus.

Do you honestly say that you flower them year after year. I ask this question because my few do NOT flower regularly. Rod Malcomber, good friend of mine, used to grow many Vandas and he found that sometimes they could be as stubborn as a mule. I would be glad to hear what other growers of these type of orchids have to say, especially paying interest to where on this planet of ours that you live.

Kind regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] FW: FW: Horticultural Exposition in Thailand
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:05

Ron, Not to put too fine a point on it, but I just put this blurb into our
society newsletter:
19th World Orchid Congress location is Miami, Florida. The dates are January
23-27, 2008. Location: Exhibition Center of the Sheraton Miami Mart Hotel.
The theme is "Orchids „ Nature's Masterpiece"
http://www.19woc.com/home.htmfor all the details.

Pittsburgh in January vs. Miami in January. Decisions, decisions.

On 8/27/06, Ron Newstead wrote:
>
> I know the feeling, Andy. I expect to be in Florida in February, 2007,
> also 2008, when they put on the International Orchid Show.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Larimer
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cattleya group
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:10

Andy, Kudos! They are simply beautiful.

Barbara

On 8/28/06, Andy Mckeown wrote:
>
> My cattleyas have been really enjoying the summer weather. This is a
> group I took yesterday. It was very warm where I took the photo and the
> perfume was intoxicating − even ones like Hazel Boyd − the big bronze one-
> that don't usually smell were perfumed.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cattleya group
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:30

You say, Andy, that your cattleyas have been enjoying the summer weather. Do
you mean that they like more sun or that the air surrounding them is warmer?

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] FW: FW: Florida − Orchid conference
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:15

By the way, I heard that the next World Orchid Conference, which WAS due to
be held in Miami in February 2008 is in some difficulty/doubt. One
possibility is that it will be held in January of that year, and another
possibility has it moving out of Miami , but still in Florida . there is
probably a web-site giving details if anyone needs to know the latest state
of play , but maybe nothing will be posted until it is more definite.

Geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cattleya group
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:20

Congratulations − it's a great group.

Geoff

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Questions.
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:30

The Mokara I mentioned the other day ( M.Pralor) has the remains of 15
successive flower spikes..

Geoff

Roger Grier wrote:

...question is for those of you that have Vandas and the many crosses on
that Genus.

Do you honestly say that you flower them year after year. I ask this
question because my few do NOT flower regularly. Rod Malcomber, good friend
of mine, used to grow many Vandas and he found that sometimes they could be
as stubborn as a mule. I would be glad to hear what other growers of these
type of orchids have to say, especially paying interest to where on this
planet of ours that you live.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] fantastic cirrhopetalum
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:35

I have a picture of the whole plant in its pot − from which you can see the
number of flowers − not many − and the size − it's a small plant , 3 bulbs
, maybe in a 9cm pan. I guess/hope that it will do better when it grows
larger. But it ( the attachment) may suffice for your interest .

Geoff

P G Hieke wrote:

Hi Geoff,

Could you send a picture of the whole flower?

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Questions.
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:20

Hi Rocky,
Yes and No, some do, some don't. Vandas are a bit trickier than Ascocendas.
Some flower twice a year and some even 3 times. I think it depends on the
parentage. The background is most important for the functioning of the plant.
I even have plants that have not flowered yet after 5 years.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Questions.
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:25

Hi Rocky

I have not changed my culture. They are all in pure perlite and stand in 2cms of nutrient mix. What you can see is the top dressing of 1cm of mendip grit − a top-dressing to prevent algal growth, for stability and to keep the "necks" drier.

My Lipstick Lady has produced two huge leads both in sheath at present − I'll let you know what happens when the come into flower.

Thanks Barbara and Geoff for your kind comments.

Andy

Roger Grier wrote:

Andy, can you please describe the medium that you have your Cattleyas growing in. It looks like Seramis plus some other ingredient...............not that I would ever change, but I am interested. And how is what I call 'Lipstick Lady' doing? My two plants are in sheath and the buds are visible.

Kind regards, Rocky.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cattleya group
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:30

Good Question Ron. All I know is they are doing well. Maybe it's me that's enjoying both the heat and the light.

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] What's in a name
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:40

I used to grow Epidendrum cochleatum, then Encyclia cochleata, Prosthechea
cochleata ( for a short while) and now I grow Anacheilum cochleatum. If my
neighbour asks, " what's that called?", I am most likely to say the
cockleshell orchid.

I don't think it matters at all what label is used if it serves it's
function − the name after all is not the thing named. What does matter, I
think, is what the label is used for. At best labels can lead to
increasing knowledge − we can pool information if we know we are talking
about the same thing. They can also be used as a sort of stick − mine's
better than yours. We know BEST rather than we know DIFFERENT. I dont
think this is helpful or respectful or that it has much to do with the
plants. I don't subscribe to the idea that botanists and growers are at
loggerheads either.

Calling the plant the cockleshell orchid helps me and my neighbour talk
about the plant whereas calling it Anacheilum cochleatum in this case would
probably detract from the conversation. I would expect any botanist or
serious grower to be able to use any of the scientific names − they, ( and
this plants other names) are widely cross referenced in the literature. If
I were publishing a paper in a scientific journal I would use the most
up-to-date name that accorded with my theories − unless of course it was my
paper on it's reclassification!

On a practical level I use rather large labels in my pots and print the
different names on either side − it's how I remembered the spelling of
Anacheilum or what such-and-such used to be called. As for Laelia
purpurata − I know for now some people know it as Sophronitis purpurata but
I am keeping the other side of the label blank for the day it becomes
Cattleya purpurata!

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] WOC, Miami
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:35

Barbara, I shall be there!

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] FW: FW: Florida − Orchid conference
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:35

What does our Coral Gables delegate say about this?

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: book
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:25

I have a copy of J.N.Rentoul, Growing Orchids Book 2 The Cattleyas and Other Epiphytes for sale. ( Bought 2 by mistake) Very good condition UKP17.50 + postage.

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] WOC, Miami
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:20

Me too.
Peter from Bloubergstrand

Barbara, I shall be there!

Ron

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Non flowering Vandas.
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:05

Mornin' Peter,

Thanks for your kind words of support as it does stop one from wondering what has happened. I did realise this fact many years ago, but I did want to share other members experience of this fact with Vandas.

My plant of Ascocenda Summer delight 'Susan' used to bloom and bloom, but for the past few years it has not bloomed at all. The plant has even changed its appearance in that it seems to have 'elongated' if that's the word to describe it !!!

I guess that the one thing that annoys, frustrates, bothers us all is the very fact that nothing much has changed in the way that we grow them. Same greenhouse, same culture.

The weather ?????

We had are mutual friend from Coburg stay for a couple of days a few weeks ago.

Kind regards, Roger.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Questions.
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:20

Has anyone had any experience with Ascocenda John De Baise? I have had it now for almost 3 years and it hasn't bloomed once. It was a large plant when I got it at our OS share table, and I think it was there for this reason, as there is no evidence that it has ever bloomed. It is over foot tall now, is very healthy and large and keeps getting new fat roots and leaves, but alas no flowers. Any advice or suggestions? I am in Calgary Alberta, and grow in a seasonal greenhouse and under HPS 400 watt plus south natural light in the winter.
Cheers
Sharon

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