2006 mailing list messages

2006 Archived Messages

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From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Suzanne and Roger
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:55

Suzanne I do agree with Roger. The Italian firm is excellent to deal with
that is if you are in Europe as we are allowed to import 5 each at a time.
Our local society ordered 21 about 2 months ago and I'm in touch with them
again as on Friday I'm sending an order for another 25 assorted orchids for
our society members. The only drawback is the bank charges £18 for us and
the delivery charges of 45 euros but dived among the members and with the
amount divided and added to each plant they are still quite a bit cheaper
than they would be if bought in U.K. and the quality is first class. − Jean

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Buying orchids.
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:55

Rocky,
Italy, for cites purposes is the same country as ours − we are in the EC. Plants cabe moved between EC countries without CITES. No doubt Suzanne is more concerned about countries foreign to ours like (say) S.America, Asia etc. Haven't we been down this road before?
John Stanley

I thought that my advice to Suzy was straightforward, so I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick John.

I am sure that you and I would just love to hear what explanations the Euro MP's would give us about this utter 'shambles', [to give it a polite name, ha, ha] as to why EU Countries can do business without the paperwork that non EU Countries cannot.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Bank charges.
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:45

While we are on the subject of buying orchids from E. U. Countries, I thought that my Bank charge was just 'A tenner'.

To give us all an example of why we must keep on our toes and try to be one jump ahead all the time, let me tell you of this little story.

I am a avid traditional Jazz and Blues fan, and when I was recently in New Orleans I bought a bag full of CD's.

One was a box of five CD's. Cost in our money £14.22 The CD's were made by a company in England and imported into the USA. Price here in the U.K. ...................................................£20.49.

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: bank
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:55

Hi Roger, my bank is the Royal Bank of Scotland and the charge was
definitely £18 but I'm sure these charges vary from bank to bank. As I said
not bad when split between 5 or 6 members but a bit steep for one. Jean

From: "SKELLAM, Richard"
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Fertiliser
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:35

I am interested in views on fertiliser, having attended an interesting
talk by Mike Armstrong of Mikandra Orchids, who I notice also
contributed to orchid talk. He makes a case for phosphate free
fertiliser − are there any views on this ?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Bank charges for International Money Transactions.
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:40

Well, would you believe it !!!! My Bank, Barclays are now offering just two options, and they are 'Priority' and 'Standard'. I always go for the Standard, which costs me £20.

The so called 'Priority' option means that the transaction only gets Priority in the Country. Not necessarily in the other Country.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Phosphate free fertiliser.
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 16:10

It comes as a surprise to hear what Mike Armstrong is saying !!!!! I wonder why he is saying it, and what are his reasons. I don't think I have ever met the guy, so I can't comment on what he is up to.

I always say that when I used a 30-30-30 fertiliser that I got very good results.

1. Phosphates help the plant to ripen and also, in the early stages of growth, assist in the formation of roots and top shoots.

2. Phosphorus aids root activity, ripening and maturing of plants. If deficient, plant growth is stunted and foliage becomes dully tinted.

3. Phosphorus is intimately associated with all the life processes and is a constituent of every living cell. Plants need it for early root formation, for speeding up flowering, fruiting and ripening.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: Phosphate free fertiliser.
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 16:45

> It comes as a surprise to hear what Mike Armstrong is saying !!!!! I
> wonder why he is saying it, and what are his reasons. I don't think I
> have ever met the guy, so I can't comment on what he is up to.

Check out page http://www.orchid-talk.co.uk/docs/feed.html − it's been
there so long you've probably forgotten it :-)

It comes via a talk which Mike gives/gave to various Societies. I've heard
it at both North Hampshire and Wessex meetings and he gave me permission to
put it on the website. Having tried out his suggestions I can report they
work *in my greenhouse* − you may find differently in yours.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: No Phosphate.
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:25

Your very recent E-mail has been received and I have noted what you have said, so I clicked on the link and started to read..........I say started to read, because I soon turned off.

As soon as micro whatevers are mentioned and reverse whatever, and the delicate measuring..........that's me finished.

I'm not going to say anything detrimental about it, because I do not know of anyone who has tried it for a long period, and what the results were.

However, whenever I try to give help and encouragement to people who are new to orchids or, to those who have been growing for some time, the last thing I want to do is to baffle them with science. Especially when it is not required.

Going back to the suggested formulas for this no Phosphate, I expect it is for those in business who have a very large crop of plants, but for the ordinary hobbyist with a greenhouse and a few plants, no I don't think so.

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: bank
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:50

Peter as far as I can remember it was more or less immediate. It didn't take
long as I had the plants the following week. − Jean

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] EU-CITES-etc
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:40

Hi Rocky,
It's because the EU member states are all one 'country' under a common administration designed precisely to minimise paperwork in trade. There are still conserved elements of members' flora and fauna that are preserved and for which it is an offence (within a member state) to dig up or capture and sell, but these aren't the concern of CITES which (tries) to function between political administrations (countries) who have signed up to it. Whether CITES does what it is designed to do is another issue quite separate from the Europe issue. Europe doesn't have trade boundaries. That's why Switzerland, which is, geographically but not politically, in Europe. requires CITES documents. You use the appropriate words 'EU' the European Union. You don't need CITES between Germany, France, Spain, Italy etc. and England just like you don't between Scotland, Wales and England.

I agree that there are shambolic aspects to CITES but the way it works in Europe seems, to me, quite logical and simply doesn't require explanation. Whether or not it is a good idea to let CITES have the same remit as Europe takes on more and more member states (who knows; China, USA, India, Australia and the S.American countries might all join as well) is another matter.

I thought that my advice to Suzy was straightforward, so I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick John.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: Phosphate free fertilizer.
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:40

I'm on your side Rocky. In the 40's we potted
all of our orchids in osmunda (Osmunda cinnamomea).
Lucky for us, as the osmunda broke down it released
the elements that the orchid needed. There were no
soluble fertilizers on the market at this time.
About 1953 some growers started using bark and used a
soluble fertilizer that was just coming on to the
market. A major orchid firm (Clint McDade) put all of
there orchids in bark. The first year or two it
really looked like they had the answer. While
attending university in Atlanta I visited the McDade
firm in Tennessee (1956). Their culture was a
disaster. With in 5 years the company was bankrupt.
This was the company that received many plants from
England in the early 40's including C. Bow Bells.
I digress, the subject is fertilizers. Before
soluble fertilizers we only had manure which was put
into a barrel of water and the resulting 'tea' was put
on the plants. The wealthy had some one to do this
sort of thing. But I didn't know anyone who used it.
I would use almost any soluble fertilizer When
properly administered, they all work. The small
amount that we orchid growers use will not hurt the
environment. I would rather be an old time dirt
gardener then becoming an absolute scientist that
needed every element to be administered at the perfect
amount and time. It really comes down to being just
so much manure.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: five at a time..
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:35

There is NO limitation on the number five. You can "import" 50 , 500, or
5000 from Italy into UK -it does not count as impoortation , any more than
it does when I go to London and then return "importing" orchids from London
into Dorset.

There was such a limitation − at one time − going back several years, at a
time when Customs tried to impose limitations on anything ibrought into UK
from other EC coiuntries, and they had their knuckles rapped by the Court
and Brussels too − Limits only apply ( and even then rather dubiously in my
view ) to anything where there is DUTY paid ( tobacco, wines and spirits,
perfumes ) There is no duty on orchids . And in fact if I import from Italy
or Germany or France or wherever in Europe, , I find that the cost of the
packing is rather excessive if the order is as few as 5 plants, so I ALWAYS
import more than that.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Phosphate free fertiliser ?
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40

What makes the gentleman think that orchids can do without phosphorus ? If
they can ( which they can't) they would be unique amongst green plants -
unique in life too ! Living things certainly don't need a lot , but if the
odd atom or two which is needful ain't there, then whatever it is needed for
does not happen. Phosphorus I believe is used in making roots........

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: No Phosphate.
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:35

| As soon as micro whatevers are mentioned and reverse whatever, and the
| delicate measuring..........that's me finished.

| I'm not going to say anything detrimental about it, because I do not know
| of anyone who has tried it for a long period, and what the results were.

| However, whenever I try to give help and encouragement to people who are
| new to orchids or, to those who have been growing for some time, the last
| thing I want to do is to baffle them with science. Especially when it is
| not required.

| Going back to the suggested formulas for this no Phosphate, I expect it
| is for those in business who have a very large crop of plants, but for
| the ordinary hobbyist with a greenhouse and a few plants, no I don't
| think so.

If you had read the article all the way through you would see that the no
Phosphate formula is alternated with low Phosphate formula. The theory is
that orchids don't need a *lot* of phosphates although they do need some.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk]Re: Phosphate free fertiliser ?
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:45

On 10 Mar, in article ,
Geoffrey Hands wrote:
> What makes the gentleman think that orchids can do without phosphorus ?

Don't panic, what he actually says in the article is that orchids don't
need a *lot* of phosphate! The phosphate free formula is only part of the
whole equation...

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: all the world in the EU ?
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:40

Your comments John , raise the idea in my subject line !
But it wouldn't be so bad , would it ?
That really would be free trade !
If only...
(No CITES, no customs , )
Ah, but think of all those bureaucrats out of work...
On second thouhjts, yes , I still think its a great idea !

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: E.U. and Cites.
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:10

How does being a member country of the so called 'European Union' allow us to IMPORT orchids from any country within this group without the need for any paperwork whatsoever, including CITES, and to just sail through CUSTOMS without any problem at all.

If I was in the Orchid business, and not a member of the E.U., and relied on the profit that I made from selling orchids, and I heard about this SCAM, I would kick up hell.

Maybe it would result in a change of 'Direction' and that we would no longer be able to buy from the E.U. as we do now, but it would put all countries in the same pot.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: E.U. and Cites.
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:45

> How does being a member country of the so called 'European Union' allow
> us to IMPORT orchids from any country within this group without the need
> for any paperwork whatsoever, including CITES, and to just sail through
> CUSTOMS without any problem at all.

Because the paperwork had already been done when the orchids were imported
into the other EU country (the one from which you are buying)!

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Loss of some orchids.
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:30

Since the onset of winter last year up until a few weeks ago, I have lost a few orchids. Of course this happens in nature all the time, but on this occasion I am lost in trying to guess what has happened.

One plant was a very nice Miltonia/opsis. A few Cattleyas and just a couple more that I can't remember at the moment.

Thing is, has anyone else in 'Our area of the globe' noticed anything out of the ordinary ?

From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] E.U. and Cites.
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:35

>How does being a member country of the so called 'European Union' allow us to IMPORT orchids from any country within this group without the need for any paperwork whatsoever, including CITES, and to just sail through CUSTOMS without any problem at all.

The countries of the European Union have signed up to the Treaty of Rome, which establishes between them a "common market". Surely, you have heard of this?

It means what it says − a single market enabling goods and (to some extent) services) to move freely between Member States. In the words of Article 3(c) of the Treaty: "an internal market characterised by the abolition, as between Member States, of obstacles to the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital"

Articles 28 and 29 provide that quantitative restrictions on imports and exports and all measures having equivalent effect shall be prohibited between Member States.

Given this, it would be illegal to restrict the movement of an orchid between Member States.

The only prohibitions and restrictions that may be allowed are set out in Article 30, viz: "justified on grounds of public morality, public policy or public security; the protection of health and life of humans, animals or plants; the protection of national treasures possessing artistic, historic or archaeological value; or the protection of industrial and commercial property".

A prime (pardon the pun) example of this is the the ban on exports of British beef, recently lifted.

So, unless there is a risk to public health or security, etc, goods are free to move between Member States.

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: A cymbidium, but no name
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:55

Does somebody recognize this plant? The height is 42cm (61cm incl
inflorescense), the leaves are 40cm by 2cm, psbs 2.5cm wide, 3.5cm high.
Flowers 7cm wide, 6cm high. The colors on the photos are fairly close to
reality (at least on my monitor) − an almost uniform greenish yellow.
The tape measure in the background is in cm.

This plant is yet another one I have inherited from a friend who, sadly,
is now contributing to the enrichment of the environment in his own
little way. It was one of the first plants I had any success with after
I moved to UK, and it grows and flowers faithfully on a diet of bark and
water with a little fertiliser once a week. I don't have a greenhouse,
so it is fully housetrained, like all my plants.

I will be selling it some time soon, since I am moving to China; if you
are interested, please let me know.

From: Ronald Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Change of address
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:15

I shall be transferring myself and my orchids to Bath in the UK (where I am
preparing to build a new orchid house) later on this year.

I can receive messages sent to this address also in Portugal as long as I
continue to be here.

From: mike wise
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Loss of some orchids.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:10

Funny that you should mention that Roger
I too have had an awful few months whereby several once sturdy
specimens have bitten the dust, most particularly Cattleyas of which I had
some lovely plants.
I am in hertfordshire, England and the weather has been very cold
for a few nights even though we are getting well into march.
The only consolation is the Orchid show at the RHS halls next week
where I will try and regain some of my losses !

From: jeff
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] A cymbidium, but no name
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:25

Hello Jan
Does your green yellow cymbidium have any fragrance?
If it does it looks like ensifolium,
What £ would you want for it please
Regards
Jeff

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: losing plants
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:00

Good Morning Roger − Yes I've lost a few and I had a phone call from an
orchid member living about 20 miles away and we had a long chat about it
yesterday as she is one of our best growers and has lost a few as well this
winter. We came to the conclusion that it has been a long and dark winter.
Outside plants are taking much longer than last year to start their growth.
We had camelias in flower in December last year but this year although all
of them have fat buds we had one or two flowers open in late
January/beginning Feb this year. Jean

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:30

Thanks for the reply and the 'official' wording. Your last word asks me..........'O.K.?'

Maybe I think on a higher plain than most people, and I bet that gets many of you jumping, but what I cannot ever seem to get across is the fact that I am thinking 'Orchid'.

It of course seems silly, but imagine an orchid is imported from France to England..........smooth and no problem.

Exactly the same species/hybrid of orchid is purchased by a person in England from a nursery in Jersey, or Canada.

When the owner explains to someone that he or she had to pay for permits etc to import from Jersey/Canada, but did not require these items from any E.U. country they would be very puzzled.

Whoever made these rules for the E.U. member countries? Did they ever consult 'Orchid people', and do they know what a mess this is?

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: RHS
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:50

How many of you are planning to attend the show and
what days where you thinking off?

I was thinking of going very early on Saturday, as I
really enjoyed lasts year's show and, even though I
went both Saturday and Sunday, it was already too late
to get hold of some plants that I have been searching
for for some time now. Hopefully this year I won't be
beaten to them!

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Loss of orchids.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:35

Sweet music to my ears, and I suspect also to other members who live this far north of the equator and experience winters with a very noticeable lack of sunshine.

It does make me feel that much better, as I guess I speak for many of you when I say that I have been racking my brain trying to work out exactly what has gone wrong. Especially when a choice plant suddenly 'Commits suicide', and yet the plant next to it on the bench carries on as if nothing has happened !!!!!

Jean's mention of the lack of sunshine is one that I have been talking about for many years. I think it is the one single factor that we have to contend with. After all, when many of us go on holidays to warmer parts of the globe during January and February we sure do see a difference. And what a difference !!!

So, my fellow orchid growers, I guess we shall just have to put up with it, and give ourselves a pat on the back for managing to grow and flower our plants in such trying conditions.

From:
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:15

> When the owner explains to someone that he or she had to pay for
> permits etc to import from Jersey/Canada, but did not require these
> items from any E.U. country they would be very puzzled.
>
> Whoever made these rules for the E.U. member countries? Did they
> ever consult 'Orchid people', and do they know what a mess this is?

The answer is quite easy: our respective governments made up these rules
together...
So, what would be the solution ?
Have Jersey, Switzerland etc join the EU ;-)

Look at the US situation, it is just another grouping of states, ok, so they
already have a president and "1 central government", that's what the EU has
almost as well...

Be happy that you get the chance to buy plants within the EU without any
problems ! Do you really want to go back to the "I need a CITES if I want to
buy a plant from France, Germany, Belgium, Holland, ..." situation before ?

PS: yes, everybody bitches about decisions made in "Brussels" but don't forget
that most of them actually reside in Strassbourg as well half of the time...

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] A cymbidium, but no name
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:30

jeff wrote:
> Hello Jan
> Does your green yellow cymbidium have any fragrance?
> If it does it looks like ensifolium,
> What Â£ would you want for it please
> Regards
> Jeff

It does smell faintly − vaguely like lemon, but with a hint of something
else, perhaps lavender (?). My sense of smell isn't all that finetuned
after a lifetime of being manhandled by Danish cookery (think 'pickled
herring', and that's just the start of it).

I have now cumbersomely spelled my way through the key (in Chinese) to
Cymbidium in Flora Reipublicae Sinicae, Tomus 18 − after which I found
out that it is available in English online:
http://flora.huh.harvard.edu/china/mss/treatments.htm − vol 25 is
Orchidaceae. To my mind it keys out as Cymbidium dayanum, though it
isn't typical, among other things the 'chestnut longitudinal stripe' is
missing:

Cymbidium dayanum var. albiflorum S. S. Ying; C. dayanum var.
austrojaponicum Tuyama; C. dayanum subsp. leachianum (Reichenbach f.) S.
S. Ying; C. dayanum var. leachianum (Reichenbach f.) S. S. Ying; C.
eburneum Lindley var. austrojaponicum (Tuyama) Hiroe; C. leachianum
Reichenbach f.; C. poilanei Gagnepain; C. simonsianum King & Pantling;
C. sutepense Rolfe ex Downie.

Plants epiphytic; pseudobulbs nearly spindle-shaped, somewhat
compressed, 2--5 X 1.5--2.5 cm, enclosed in leaf base. Leaves 4--9, deep
green, lorate, 32--60(--110) X 7--13 cm or wider, rigidly papery,
midvein and lateral veins raised abaxially (usually lateral veins convex
more than midveins, especially on lower part), not lobed, apex
acuminate, article 7--12 cm to spur base. Flower scape arising through
sheaths at pseudobulb base, bent downward or pendulous, 18--35 cm;
raceme 5--9-flowered; floral bracts subtriangular, 4--5 mm. Pedicel and
ovary 1--2 cm, anaphase continuously elongated. Flowers 4--5 cm in
diam., usually not fragrant; sepals and petals white or creamy yellow,
central part with 1 chestnut longitudinal stripe extending from base to
3/4 upper part or occasionally with whole petals pale purplish red
throughout, labellum white only at base and midlobe center, others
chestnut, lateral lobes with dense chestnut veins, lamella white or
creamy yellow. Sepals narrowly oblong-elliptic, 2.2--2.7 X 5--7 cm or
wider. Petals narrowly ovate-oblong, 1.7--2.3 X 4--6 cm or wider;
labellum subovate, 1.5--1.9 cm, 3-lobed; lateral lobes nearly as long as
column; midlobe recurved; labellum disc with 2 longitudinal lamella
elongated from base to midlobe base, densely glandular hairy, lamella
with 2 glandular hair-lines from apex to midlobe; column slightly bent
forward, 9--10 mm, 1/2--3/5 as long as sepal; pollinia 2, subtriangular.
Capsule elliptic, 4--5 X 2--2.8 cm. 2n = 40.

Trees in open forests, cliffs at streamsides; 300--1600 m. S Fujian,
Guangdong, Guangxi, Hainan, Taiwan, S to SE Yunnan [Cambodia, India,
Indonesia, Japan, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Sikkim,
Thailand, Vietnam].

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Winter ? what winter ?
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:40

No , I'm only joking . But seriously , the outside temperature should not
matter − its the inside temperature which is important. Mine has been no
lower than usual − I have a heating system big enough to cope. In fact , its
not actually been that cold.

Here, near the sea, on the south coast , I have seen minus 5 degrees C.,
once, since November , and that's nothing to an old cotswolder, and before
that a west-midlander.
Temperatures of minus 8 or 10 were not unusual in Glos., and one year in
Warwickshire I saw minus 25 − that was 1983 − and my orchid house went down
to 10 ( plus ! ) − but everything was kept pretty dry − I restricted myself
to spraying , not watering ,done in the daytime when the thermomemter had
risen to 15 or more.

So all you folk who are causing the trade to rub their hands with glee ,
what does your maxi-mini say ?

And as to a dark winter , Jean − aren't they always, here in England ? Some
more than most , but I wouldn't say this has been a bad one in that respect
.

And yes, the garden is late, and I wonder what has been the fate of my
Oleanders, Plumbago, Musa ( bananas to you − no, I'm not being rude [
although I am capable of that too , as I expect you know ] − for Musa is
the latin name of the genus for banana trees ) not to mention Jacaranda.
It's just my luck to plant things most probably hardy down here when
establisehd, in the year when the temperature has been low enough to kill
them if not established.

But my orchids have not suffered any more than the usually do from my not
-always perfect-culture.

PS and I hope to buy some cattleyas next week-end too − I hope we don't
fight over them !

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES − and the EU
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:45

Dear Roger, we all love you very dearly − what would List be without your
contributions ? Rather poorer I think.

But to all other members − let's face it, we never shall teach Roger that
the EU is a single state and that crossing the channel is no longer "going
foreign" .

Why don't we stop talking about CITES − that shall be my April 1st
Resolution....

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: CITES.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:40

> Thanks for the reply and the 'official' wording. Your last word asks
> me..........'O.K.?'

Roger, I'm baffled by your response to Chong-Yee. He has explained it all
very clearly but still you don't seem to get it.

I am left with the inescapable conclusion that you are wilfully
mis-understanding all the explanations offered. Several subscribers have
left the list in sheer frustration so I hereby give formal notice that any
more communications from you on the subject will not be broadcast to the
list.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] A cymbidium, but no name
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:50

Jan, your cymbidium looks and sounds very similar to 'Golden Elf'. It is of
course very difficult to be sure without seeing the flowers in the flesh,
so to speak.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Difficult plants.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:35

Following on from the very welcome words from Jean and Mike, I thought that it would be very nice indeed to share our knowledge and misfortunes.

How about telling of plants that have never done well in their respective owners conditions.

I have purchased two, or is it now three plants of Eriopsis biloba. It took a long time to kill them.......... stop laughing, but I have failed with all of them..........but why?

Perhaps our club can start a new section, telling of the plants that we individuals have great problems with, because, I am sure that, as within gardening members, we will all be too aware of the fact that what does not do any good whatsoever with one person, flourishes with another.

From: mike wise
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Winter ? what winter ?
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:05

Dear Geoff
my excuse although a rather feeble one is that I do not have
the many years of experience of growing orchids that you have.
Although this is probably not a major factor I think that
you are more likely to spot potential problems early on and also have the
knowledge to prevent them becoming tragedies.
However, I don't think orchid growers are easily beaten or we
would never have taken on the challenge in the first place so onwards we go,
and as to pleasing the trade with further purchases,
if it leads to better plants then I'm happy to fork out.
Should we happen to clap eyes on the same cattleya (although I
tend to go for the very gaudy , fragrant types) then I will happily concede
to such an esteemed member of the board.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Cites.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:55

Me get on your nerves with my constant moaning about CITES..........surely you don't think that I am stretching a point..........you do !!!

O.K. I guess that I will keep my thoughts to myself. If any of you that do not know me, and ever meet me, you will know of my immense sense of humour. I just love a good joke, especially if it sheer class.

One last item. Please send in any items about orchids that do not do well for you.

And if Tricia will allow me..........have a look at my attachment. That's what friend, orchids, enthusiasts, are all about.

From: jeff
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] A cymbidium, but no name
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:00

Golden Elf is an ensifolium cross ( Ensifolium x Enid Haupt ) and looks
very similar but the petals and sepals are usually slightly fuller and
rounder than the species and with a more distinctive yellow colour .
Ensifolium is a very variable species and I have quite a few variations
white/greenish to brown-red
If you are moving to China you will get some wonderful cymb species out
there some with tiny grass like leaves and a powerful fragrance. There have
been a few good articles in the AOS Journal over the years, I could look
them up if you are keen.
Email me when you are ready to sell
Jeff

> Jan, your cymbidium looks and sounds very similar to 'Golden Elf'. It is
> of course very difficult to be sure without seeing the flowers in the
> flesh, so to speak.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Phosphate.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:40

I cannot get my head around this talk of growing orchids without Phosphate ( Phosphoric Acid). I could not understand the first post and so deleted it and so now cannot recall who first posted it. Geoff is correct, the orchid or any other plant for that matter cannot survive without it, and as it is in some cases easily washed out of the soil/compost, as in pot plants, it is then necessary to give regular replacement supplies. Natural manures/dung/ composts ect contain Phosphate mostly in very small amounts. Horse manure is considered to be quite rich with it but it apparently varies with the type or breed of horse and what it eats. Perhaps this is the reason why some orchid growers have great success with massive root growth, according to the pictures I have seen.

In my young days Bone meal was the main source, but the problem was that it was very slow to release and the speed of release was dependent on how fine the bone was ground. Basic slag and superphosphate of lime are other sources and there are natural deposits of mineral phosphate, ( Phosphate of Lime, Phosphates of potash) in certain areas of the world. I did not and do not intend to write a treatise on the subject for it was many moons ago that I acquired what knowledge I have, but I repeat, Geoff is right, plants including the orchids we grow, in one degree or another, cannot do without it.
Balanced fertilisers succeed because by and large plants take up or use only the amount that they require.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Orchid Losses
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:40

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Plant Loss
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:00

I am some what puzzled to read of members loosing plants because this winter has been somewhat cooler than those of the last few years.For myself I grow under lights and the temperature stays as set by the thermostats rather as Geoff states. I do not personally know or am friendly with any orchid grower, but I assume that all UK growers must have heat but that not all use lights. There must be some one that grows orchids in these parts, but I do not know of any.Outside it has not been lower than 20 decrees F but has been that on many more occasions than previous recent winters. In Northumberland at present there is 1inch of snow with a biting cold north easterly and some 5 degrees fahrenheit of frost but the winter in this year has been dominated by north easterly winds, and every one, even if they do not grow orchids are fed up with it.
I do wonder what the increase in fuel cost will do the price of UK grown nursery plants. I also wonder whether the increased fuel costs will cause some members to cease growing. Last year my fuel cost for my house, conservatory and greenhouse was £2500. I do not know what proportion between domestic and plants to apply but 50% increase would make me consider the situation.
Since I started keeping orchids I have only grown with lights and of course heat and have Phals in flower all the year. I under stand that this would not apply without artificial light and heat, and in which case I would not want to grow Orchids, although I have always had my growing areas heated but to a much lesser degree. However I most say that a couple of hours in the warmth amongst all the flowers, on a cold miserable bleak day makes it all worth while. Better than any Sauner session that's for sure.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Phosphate.
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:45

On 12 Mar, in article ,
Ron Bower wrote:
> I cannot get my head around this talk of growing orchids without
> Phosphate ( Phosphoric Acid).

I think the original posting may have confused some people because it
didn't mention that some phosphate (the 'P' in NPK) is given, but not at
every feeding. In fact it is a plan over four waterings starting with two
using feed without phosphate, followed by one with and then a dose of plain
water. This has been found to alleviate root burn due to excessive salts -
the salts in question being phosphate.

From: Esther Koh
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: CITES.
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:50

> Roger, I'm baffled by your response to Chong-Yee. He has explained it
> all very clearly but still you don't seem to get it.

> I am left with the inescapable conclusion that you are wilfully
> mis-understanding all the explanations offered. Several subscribers have
> left the list in sheer frustration so I hereby give formal notice that
> any more communications from you on the subject will not be broadcast to
> the list.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: [OrchidTalk] Rocky's file
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10

Sorry Rocky, I had to remove the file − it was way to large for this list.
For those who would like to know, it was a movie, and I'm sure it could be
sent to anyone who requests it :-)

It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end to end, someone would be stupid enough to try and pass them.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Some notes about hydroculture and hydroponics.
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:25

As many members know and indeed a few have seen for themselves, I had
extremely good results growing oncidium related hybrids ( especially these,
but by no means exclusively these ) in hydroculture . By which I mean using
washed Perlite as the "compost" and with the plants stood permanently in
trays with a water/nutrient depth of about 2 or 3 cm. I say "had" because
that was in my pit house , in the Cotswolds from the mid '90s onwards.

The only snag with hydroculture is that in summer, and in good light, algae
grows in the water , which personally I find unsightly, and it cetainly
shifted the balance of nutrients in the water . So emptying the trays,
flushing them clean, washing the pots and returning to fresh water was often
necessary , or so I thought.

It is obvious that with hydroponics, using total flooding , and then total
draining , the water can be stored below the bench in a lidded container,
and the algae problem never arises. So when I moved to Dorset in September
2004 I installed many plants in the flood and drain system ( having invented
a no-valve system for the purpose ) . Some plants which had been in
hydroponics were changed to a different system , not because of difficulties
with the hydroponics , but to exploit a new set of possibilities in a new
and different design greenhouse . So recently I have had none in
hydroculture.

I set the flood and drain interval as 1 flood per month by December, rising
to fortnightly in February , weekly in May, twice a week in July... the
flowering at first was terrific , but this was the old old story − plants
exploiting the massive reserves built uip in days when they had been grown
very well ( even if I do say so myself) and calling on them in a desperate
attempt to perpetuate themselves, when becoming highly stressed. And by
August last year I could see that they were not happy plants. New growths
were thin on the ground, and poor in quality. Examination showed horrible
roots.

My conclusion is that flood and drain may be very good indeed for fine
rooted orchids ( my great successes with it in the past had been for thick
leaved ,thick rooted orchids ) but to get there needs a lot of work on
watering intervals, and maybe root temperatures, and maybe pot design
etc..and I cannot face this, and don't need to.

At first , in the course of the autumn and because I thought the plants
needed to be drier , I repotted most into a conventional mix , which I made
up ( having the benefit of a complete pallet load of 50 or 100 litre bags of
several different grades of bark, bark plus moss, chopped coconut fibre
chips , diatomite , cocoa fibre etc, which I was asked to evaluate for a
firm who will be entering the orchid compost trade in the near future) .
Most have started to root, and produce new growths, but with a great deal of
loss of older bulbs , and frequently a plant coming out of a 10 inch pan
with say six or eight leads, if now knocked out, falls into half a dozen
pieces, each with a few back bulbs, and the centre older bulbs are rotten.

So I decided to go back to hydrtoculture, and then devised a very simple
tank/tray structure which makes life very easy − and which I thought I'd
share with you. I'll add a picture in the next mail , but basically I lay
the pond line directly on the bench slats, without providing any plywood etc
base, turn uip the edges and staple to a frame on 3 sides ( I use the back
of the bench as one frame side, and the plank which I have along the front
of the bench to prevent plants falling off, as the 2nd , and the third and
fourth sides are just loose pieces of wood placed on the bench. When I pour
the water in, the weight of it shapes the pond liner to the available space.

This is the brilliant bit − I think − to empty the tank I just take away one
of the loose pieces of wood, and allow the pond liner to flatten out, and
the weater pours onto the floor . As and when, I can flush it through with a
hose, replace the loose piece , and fill up.

Much quicker, cheaper and easier than anything I have ever done before in
this direction.

Incidentally I bought a dozen new cattleyas and put them straight into
hydroculture as an experiment, and I have also put a dozen paphs in, and a
few Vandas. I have not grown many of these ghenera this way previously and
I'll see how they do.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: the promised pic of my new hydroponic tank method
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:15

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Some notes about hydroculture and hydroponics.
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:00

Geoffrey, Your system as you describe it is similar to that I use, but mine differs in that I use plastic trays. Members and yourself may have gathered that I have for some time been growing my plants, Phals that is, in stones or pebbles and standing in water in plastic trays and like you, had the messy business of cleaning off the Algae which like you I find unsightly, from the trays and pots, and as each tray held some 20 pots and as each standard orchid pot when filled with stones weighs in at 3 pounds plus I had some problems in as much as I could not easily pick up the trays. I solved that by putting the pots in plastic Bakers type trays and lined them with a bin liner. Like your self I pour in water to about 3 cm, then empty them by pushing down the liner at some convenient place letting the water drain out. I started this in July and at that time I left the water in for 2 days, not exactly 48 hours, but over the 2 days then like yourself lessening the period and frequency according to the time of year at present 10 or 12 days and drain the same day. When I have enough of my plants in stones I may very well adopt your bench method. This method be it, Hydroponics or Hydroculture works well for me.
Ronbow.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2006 Archived Messages

March 8—14