2005 mailing list messages

2005 Archived Messages

Click on the week you require.
To return to the main Archive index, click the button at the bottom of the page.
Links to all the Photos and other images accompanying the list messages can be found on the Images page.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Lycaste's and humidity.
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:15

Looking through my Met Office booklet on Central and South America, and noting the humidity tables, they read something like this.

And let us not forget that Lycastes come from such a vastly different range, so, what don't suit one, will suit another. Answer is to read up carefully and see where your plant comes from.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: Off subject: hurricanes
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:25

The Bro. sanguiniana picture was taken yesterday. It
is growing on a mango tree and can't be taken in. But
I have 6 that are on fern or wood racks that can be
moved and the spikes protected. The yard picture
shows the shutters in place. This is the third time
this year that I have put up the shutters, a 40 year
record. But life goes on. We have people coming for
a dinner party tonight and Sunday afternoon a Linux
users group board will meet in our house. Our
shutters are solid and the house feels like a cave.
At this point we are expecting the storm on Monday.
Then we will likely be without electricity for 5 to 7
days. Don't hope that we miss the storm - for that
just gives it to someone else. We are prepared.

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Den. Formosum
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:50

Hope everyone is having a nice day! Question for you please. I just acquired a Den. Formosum that blasted it's bud when I got it home. I had been in a basket with no medium brought to the Canadian Orchid Congress show here in Calgary at the beginning of the month. I guess it didn't like the move right at that time. I have read that it needs a 3 week rest (I assume that means water and fert) after blooming. The newest growth (not the one that was in bud) has its two newest leaves turning brown and drying up. Should I give it this rest, and then resume watering, or should I just water as usual for a while? I don't want the entire plant to die! Also, should it be in a clay pot with bark rather than wired down in an empty plastic basket? I am also assuming it needs bright light in the winter with cooler nights.
Thanks for your knowledgeable help as always.
Sharon in Calgary

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Query
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:40

Has anyone noticed whether or not there might be an affiliation especially in growing paphs between pumice and mealybugs?
Gordon.

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: hurrican
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:10

Good luck jns. I hope damage is minimal. The Bro. sanguiniana is a beauty. I hope it survives. I have been watching every News program to see the progress of the hurricane. Good luck again and best wishes - Jean

From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES again!
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:20

I thought this might be of interest to those pursuing action „ the subject
is not new!

I have four pots of Bletilla striata which have spent the whole year in my cool house. I am thinking of taking them out of their pots without any disturbance and planting them in my garden.

Either that, or I may keep them outside in a protected area behind the greenhouse.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:35

Thanks very much for the copy of Steve's letter. A truly first class letter, especially the information that it throws up.

It is so nice to read that Steve thinks about us all, Professional Growers and Hobbyists.

I just wonder if, in the future, we could all get together and have a collective letter sent to Mrs. E. Kendall, somehow 'signing' the letter so that she is blatantly aware of just who we are and how dissatisfied we are.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: Bletilla striata.
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:20

Roger, a few years ago there used to be a nursery that came to The Newbury show that specialised in bletillias. His advice was always transplant ''in the green'' ie when they are growing. He always did his divisions this way. Regards

I have four pots of Bletilla striata which have spent the whole year in my cool house. I am thinking of taking them out of their pots without any disturbance and planting them in my garden.

Either that, or I may keep them outside in a protected area behind the greenhouse.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: humidiification again and again with a 'chimney'
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:10

I have to send a message to Jaybird tomorrow when I've done some checking in
the greenhouse - I'll see what they think !

So can I take it that the fogging should be done preferably at a high level
and not lower down as the pro' told me?

From: MARK GRIFFITHS
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: Bletilla striata.
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:00

Roger, I've heard that Bletilla's don't like disturbance and are best moved when in leaf and just about to flower (the last time I would have thought of)..however B. striata may well be tougher as I think I got my first one from Woolies in a plastic bag.

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: Bletilla striata.
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:25

Hi Roger -
Local wisdom says to plant them under an oak tree -
the combination of acidity and dappled sunlight is
perfect.
I've planted them at various times of the year, with
no problems in survival or blooming.
Of course, our winters are mild with only a frost
occasionally and never freezing earth.
Regards - Nancy

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Cites
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:05

I wonder if the Wollemi Pine - the rarest tree in the world - is covered by Cites and did Kew break the rules by importing one. Maybe it was imported then put on Cites. Regards

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Bletilla
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:45

Roger I have Bletilla striata in our rockery and they have done very well for years. They have increased in number and flower every year. They are sheltered by other plants and only once when whether was unduly cold did I need to protect them with an extra layer of compost/bark mix. If I have them outside in pots I tend to forget all about them. Jean

From: "WOOD, Michael $WG$"
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Cites
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:30

I thought the Wollemi Pine was subject to mass propagation techniques now ?? cuttings, seeds etc ..... please correct me if i'm wrong !

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Pumice and Mealy bugs.
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:20

I must say that I would not have expected any relationship between the two, and I have no trouble with Paphs and stone chippings.

Mealy bugs are a pest, but I still think they easy to get rid of when using 'Provado'.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Rocky's Bletillas.
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:25

I will definitely plant them in my garden. My friend down the road has done this and his are no trouble.

Oh Jean, your 'whether'did make me smile, and that's what the world is about. Also it goes to prove that I may not be alone when I say that I am the worst speller in the Country, but then, the English language!!!!!!!!!!

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Query
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:50

Gordon,
There is no particular affinity for pumice by mealybugs, or the
reverse. However, this is an excellent example of an annoying
tendency of mealybugs that many people seem to overlook, possibly due
to the abject failure of orchid cultivation books to truly discuss
the biologies of the pests involved. In this matter, mealybugs move,
walk, ambulate, and (for a mealybug) run to any hole, crevice, crack,
fissure, overhang, niche, etc. that will provide them it a hiding
place. Simply, coarse pumice is good for hiding mealybugs. If you
have mealies, also check pot rims, tray edges, bench rims,
neighboring plants, etc. They will leave the plants and move long
distances between plants.

> Has anyone noticed whether or not there might be an affiliation
> especially in growing paphs between pumice and mealybugs?
> Gordon.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Cites
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:55

I thought the Wollemi Pine was subject to mass propagation techniques now ?? cuttings, seeds etc ..... please correct me if i'm wrong !

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Flasks and CITES.
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:50

No, have heard absolutely nothing..........and from the E-mails and information that have been circulating in the Club, I guess we could not expect anything to happen!!!

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Light Meter Readings for Phals.
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:15

Hello Pete, Silvio or any one else who can help.
I am with Rocky except that I am not in the New Forrest but in the north East which is maybe some what cooler and darker than Rockies patch. I have acquired a light meter but am somewhat uncertain as to how to use it. It indicates Lux at 200, 2000, 20,000 and 200,000 ranges respectively as well as X10. X100. which appears to divide the reading by that amount and I am uncertain, well maybe more so than that, totally at a loss to know which range to use so as to ascertain if I have enough light for my phals. With 2 400 watt lamps I have some 1250 Lux at 4.5 to 5ft from the lamp using the X 10. setting, which should I think be enough.

However, on some of my plants I can detect that the leaves are tending to narrowing and a tendency to show a point, rather as though the center vain is trying to grow on. The plants are spiking and flowering well and I am still on the high nitrogen fertiliser.
I use the lights for 14 hours at this time, which should be enough, I think at this time of year, but am I using the correct meter range? I would welcome and be grateful for any comments.
Ronbow.

From: MARK GRIFFITHS
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Bletilla striata.
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:20

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Sharon's D. Formosum.
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:50

I don't own a D. Formosum, nor do I know much about them, but as no one else from the 'Club' has answered you yet, [ this will spur the buggers on ] ha, ha, I can at least give you my five penneth worth.

Nice plant, so as you say stick it in a clay pot..........nice and solid and sturdy, And it will do the plant for a good many years, so why use that awful bark which will eventually disintegrate and rot away. Why don't you just look around and find some pieces of a broken clay pot. Smash then up until they are about the same size as the bark. Then wash your plants bottom part, and remove anything that is old, dead, dying or whatever. If there are plenty of good roots then just hold the plant in the pot and pour the broken clay pot pieces around it. Tamp down so that it is firm. Most probably no need to put in a stake.

I've just punched in 'Dendrobium Formosum' on the web and there is much to read.

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: oops
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:00

You'll find this hard to accept Rocky but everyone in the family asks me how to spell words! Honestly! My son phones from Staffordshire rather than get out a dictionary - hard to believe but absolutely true! It's hard to catch me out when it comes to language but the old brain gets tired these days and I need to concentrate which wasn't happening when I wrote that particular email! Anno domini! Jean

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: Sharon's D. Formosum -HELP!
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:15

Thanks for answering Rocky! The problem I have is that comment I read about 3 weeks rest after blooming. I read all I could find on the net and I haven't found an answer for this. I have been keeping it very dry (misting the exposed ie: all the roots) only once a week. The leaves are all turning brown. Is Den Formosum supposed to loose its leaves? Please help before it tanks further!
Sharon

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Sharon's D. Formosum -HELP!
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:30

D.formosum is the "typical" plant of one complete section of the Dendrobes -
which used to be clled "nigro-hirsute" because they have dark hairs on the
canes. The others - larger more spectacular flowers, include D.infundibulum
, and some modern hybrids .
The needed treatment is hardly any winter rest , merely reduced watering
when there is no new cane being developed. I have seen this species - or
more probably a close relative - growing terrestrially high on the road up
the highest hill in Thailand- maybe at 5000 feet altitude , in light shade.
Theoretically there is a several month dry winter there, but in practice
there often seems to be mist by dawn , which can make everything very wet
for a short time until the sun comes up.

Dry browning leaves suggest dry dead roots. But soaking with water is not
the answer.

Me, I'd knock it out of its pot, wash off all the compost, and if I'm right
and it has no live roots, then gently spray the whole plant quite frequently
( but letting it get bone dry betwen succesive sprayings), and watch out for
new roots appearing. Leave until a couple of inches long , then tie the
plant to several stakes so as to suspend it in a pot , and gently pour some
compost in taking care not to bruise the roots - the root tips are very
delicate - just like your fingers would be if they had no skin on them !
Then keep it lightly watered , but so as to dry out each time before given
any more.

Roger ( Rocky) will of course tell you to pot in broken pot sherds (shards ?
) but he says that to all the girls, whatever they ask him....

I find that coarse Perlite - well washed ( put it in a tea strainer under
the tap) makes a good compost , and you could , if using a plastic pot ,
then place the pot in a saucer of water and just keep the saucer topped up.
I have grown specimen pantsof this kind of Dendrobe, which flowered several
times a year, with this technique.

From: Sharon Williams
Sent: 26 October 2005 07:19
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: [OrchidTalk] Sharon's D. Formosum -HELP!

Thanks for answering Rocky! The problem I have is that comment I read about
3 weeks rest after blooming. I read all I could find on the net and I
haven't found an answer for this. I have been keeping it very dry (misting
the exposed ie: all the roots) only once a week. The leaves are all turning
brown. Is Den Formosum supposed to loose its leaves? Please help before it
tanks further!
Sharon

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Sharon's Formosum.
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:35

Have just spoken to Janet Plested and she says that Dendrobium Formosum SHOULD NOT LOOSE ITS LEAVES. Yes, of course the older canes always will, like many others, but NO, there must be something wrong with it.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:50

No doubt our 'Clubs' world wide audience will read this item and make the necessary conclusions.

I expect that later today, or tomorrow, I will E-mail this to the 'Higher Authorities' who are also bashing the people in Bristol and other places.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES and Gordon's piece
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:30

I have re-typed Gordon's wonderful piece, and I have coloured in red some of the wording that needs much attention. My thoughts are in green.

The Convention for International in Endangered Species was originally and commendably set up to prevent the illegal trade in endangered species of animals.

Plants and especially ORCHIDS, were included hurriedly, and possibly without to much rational thinking, the result is that it is now illegal to import orchids without the proper CITES documentation. Time for a re-think is here.

Whilst this may stop plants from being collected from their habitat in the wild, it is doubtful that it protects then satisfactorily, and certainly makes it illegal for nurseries to mass produce them. Which is the opposite to what we and CITES want to happen. Who and how did this come about?.........complete and utter madness! This is surely the information that we have been all waiting for. If an ORCHID is in danger, then mass produce it. Let's here what you all have to say.

Which would probably reduce the illegal demand for wild collected plants, thus securing their continuance in two different ways, especially in areas of deforestation.

The CITES rule precludes the movement of any orchid from one Country to another without a permit, even nursery grown hybrids.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Rocky's e-mail
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:55

From: Ronald Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES and Gordon's piece
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:15

And DEFRA are not doing a very good job at looking after animals - well, at
least birds, according to a programme on the BBC this afternoon where DEFRA
were heavily criticized for mixing up birds from different countries in
Quarantine!

From: suzanne sadler
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: mail
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:40

My friend Ann has a Phalenopsis that is ailing. It was growing and flowering fine and is alongside other healthy phals but it has developed a sudden droop. Its leaves are thin and limp, and its flowers (pink and white mottled) have all wilted. It is grown in bark and Ann has checked for rotting roots. It is not in a draft and Ann can see no obvious signs of an infestation. It is watered once a week and was doing ok. It had flowered for a long time previous and I wondered if the plant maybe simply exhausted. What do the experts think?

From: Mark Macklam
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Unknown cymbidium
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:15

Last February, as a 'door prize' at a volunteers party, I received this
plant. It was thought at the time that it was probably a species plant.
I know next to nothing about Cymbidiums and so am wondering if anyone
here could please take a stab at offering an idea of what this plant
is.
It has a second spike coming, too, which is great to see.
Thanks in advance

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CITES and Gordon's piece
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:40

Was that the parrot which died after coming in contact with birds from the far east?
Gordon.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Unknown cymbidium
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:35

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Suzy's friend's Phally.
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:10

Never forget, it's not the compost that is being watered, it's supplying the roots with the moisture that they need, when they need it.

Don't just look at the roots, give them a 'severe' observation and if they are plump, even feel between finger and thumb [ those that are above the compost ] then all is well, they will keep good for a long time, at least until the compost dries out. They will most probably look greyish white.....all is O.K. When they take on an apple green colour then the whole root is full of moisture. When they gradually turn greyish white then it is only the outer 'skin' that is dry, the inner portion is still full of moisture and food.

Of course I am just assuming this as I do not see the compost, but what say you???

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: overzealous cattleya question
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:05

I have an Lc. 'Shooting Star' x Catt Hawaiian Wedding Son 'Virgin' that put out 14 new growths this spring and summer. (It was a largish plant when I acquired it- or so I thought!). I was just watering and inspecting it and the young new growths, some of which the psbulbs are only 1.5" tall (not including leaves) are now putting out new growths! Of the 14 growths, their psbulbs range from 4" to 1". The old growths on the plant are much larger with 6" psbulbs, which of course are now all shrivelled. This is a unifolate and I have never owned one of these before. None of the new growths have sheaths, and I am assuming that it needs to grow a sheath to bloom from -or is this one that doesn't sheath before blooming? Or (oh my gosh I hope not)is this just a very young plant which will get enormous in size before it is able to bloom? What is with all the growths? My potinaras all get sheaths as the psbulb matures and begins to bud before putting out new growths. It has been outside all spring through early fall in the greenhouse (50% shade cloth, good air, OK humidity-hard to keep up with that air flow!). Now it is in my grow room cantered under a 400watt HPS and light from a south facing window. It is in lecca in s/h. Any help with this plant would be much appreciated!
Thanks
Sharon in Calgary

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Unknown cymbidium
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:15

Hi Mark -
Probably a hybrid...for some nice photos (or if you
want to 'pick' a name'), check out the 'orchid of the
day' archives at http://www.sborchid.com/
I'd also recommend getting on the OOTD mailing list;
no, they won't ship to me, either, but the photos of
many hybrids (mostly cymbidiums) and assorted species
are quite nice. You can add to your 'need' list.
Regards - Nancy

~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You can lead a horticulture
but you can't make her think."
- Dorothy Parker

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES and hybrids.
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:25

Have just been speaking to a lady from Wisley, Janet Cubey, who informs me that she thinks that there are moves afoot to exempt certain hybrids from CITES.

She herself is not that involved, but tells me that the person to contact is Noel McGough at Kew.

I did try to contact him a few days ago but it appears that he may be on holiday.

Let's hope that the list of hybrids that are hopefully to be exempted is drawn up with common sense,

AND WITH INPUT FROM AS MANY INTERESTED ORCHID PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. FROM THE TOP TO THE BOTTOM. We don't want to end up in a situation where Cattleya alliance hybrids are not on the list. The list must apply to all such hybrids that us orchid growers know are in no way to be regarded as 'Endangered species'.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Letter to Brian Rittershausen.
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:45

I have this afternoon just been talking to Janet Cuby, who tells me that she sits at the same meetings as you do.

She has told me that she thinks that CITES will hopefully soon exempt some orchid hybrids from their list. She also told me to contact Noel McGough at Kew. I did try E-mailing him a few days ago, but as no reply came I guess he is away for a few days or whatever.

Thing is Brian, if what I hear is true, then do you know what type of hybrids are to be de-classified.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and include all hybrids that are in no way 'Endangered species' and are the sort of hybrids that you, I, and thousands of orchid buffs know about.

Before any list is finalised I would dearly love to think that as many orchid people are contacted on this subject as possible.

It's no good having a list which allows hybrids of shall we say of Phalaenopsis, Cymbidiums, Paphiopedilums, and not the Cattleya alliance.

After all let us not forget that CITES and us orchid buffs are all for the protection of ENDANGERED SPECIES, but that CITES does not seem to want to know about the fact that with modern laboratory work, just one seed pod in the correct hands would produce thousands of plants in the space of a few years.

From: Ronald Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CITES and Gordon's piece
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:05

From: John W Stanley
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CITES- Gordon's piece-DEFRA-and dead parrots-slightly OT
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:30

Probably the most famous dead parrot ever was the Norwegian Blue wasn't it? ('E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!! )
(http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~ebarnes/python/dead-parrot.htm) just in case any non-UK members of our group imagine dead parrots to be a new phenomenon! Some orchids have the same problem as Geoff's help for Sharon might anticipate!
John

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES and hybrids.
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:35

Hi Rocky,
Maybe, I'm a bit daft, but how can certain HYBRIDS (MAN MADE PLANTS) be
on any list and others not? CITES is for endangered SPECIES not hybrids!!!!!!!!!!
All hybrids should not be on any list. I think they just went overboard
and put all orchids into CITES, which shows how stupid those bureauocrats
are.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: Mark Macklam
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Unknown cymbidium
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:25

Thanks Geoff and Nancy for your assistance. I will certainly have a
look at the website, too.

From:
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: Inexpensive seedlings (flask)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 01:30

I don't belong to your group, however I thought you might like to share this with everyone.
There is a place in the US that will produce from your seeds or you can purchase flasks of other varieties. They are low cost $29.99 per flask of 10 to 25 seedlings.
their website is Meyers Conservatory
www.troymeyers.com

there is information on international sales. I'm sure not all of your members are international though.
I have found it very interesting and like the idea of not taking from the wild.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:10

I have just had this reply from Simon James at DEFRA.................................make your own mind up about what to call him!!!

Dear Mr Grier,
Our policy section will be writing to you in due course concerning the questions you raise concerning why CITES lists all orchids and hybrids.

I am off course prepared to answer any specific questions concerning the actual issuing of permits. However I have emailed you many times concerning your general enquiries and I am just saying the same thing over and over again. Unless you have a specific query related to an application or proposed application then I think that any further correspondence between us would be fruitless.

Simon James
Global Wildlife Division
Department for the Environment,
Food & Rural Affairs
Eagle Wing - Zone 1/17/J
Temple Quay House
2 The Square
Temple Quay
Bristol
BS1 6EB
Direct Line: (0117) 3728502
Fax: (0117) 372 8206
e-mail - simon.james@defra.gsi.gov.uk
website: www.ukcites.gov.uk

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Inexpensive seedlings (flask)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:40

That is interesting Debbie. Unfortunately UK insist on a phyto-sanitary cert
- which was originally ntroduced as a certificate that the plants had been
grown in ground not infested with certain species of nematodes - and since
the plants in question have never been grown in the ground at all - that
just goes to show how daft it is. And the $40 for the Cert rather kills
things,apart from the CITES nonsense.

These rules stand in the way of trade. If the bureaucrats have their way
with all their rules and regulations, there will be no trade at all .
Sometimes I think they'd like that.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:00

Rocky Hi,
I would have thought that the question you put to DEFRA on my behalf would have been specific enough for Mr James. I presume you still have not had the courtesy of a reply from anyone relating to the matter.
Gordon.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Beaurocrats and regulations
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:15

Why don't we all send a letter to our MP who is supposed to represent us and ask for the matter to be raised in the appropriate Parliamentary department?
The letter to be written by one person with full knowledge of the problems and agreed first by all who contribute to the forum before being sent to the MP.
This way the same question/s should be in front of the department from all over the UK. This can be followed up by a further letter to the MP representing us at the European Parliament bringing in people from all the orchid growers in the EU.
Ok I know it will take time but we may get some action before our grandchildren become pensioners.(only joking!!! I hope).
Gordon.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES and hybrids.
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:40

Thanks for your comments on the orchid hybrids, and yes mate, the bureaucrats are a load of plonkers. I guess it's the same the whole world..........people get themselves into high positions, and I dammed if I know how they got there.

By the way, careful how you go in the next three or four days, our very good friends, husband and wife are in Cape Town until they fly off to Australia.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: CITES and hybrids.
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:45

Peter - the UK has to follow the European Union Directive on this . It
starts off by saying that " for the purposes of these Regulations, the word
species is to be interpreted as including hybrids" . I know its daft, and
illogical too - they say that "well, a customs officer can't tell a hybrid
from a species, can he ? " But very probably ( quite certainly) the customs
officer can't tell an orchid from say a garden plant which does not require
CITES . So if they can trust us to agree that we are importing an orchid,
why not trust us to tell thjem whether it is a species or a hybrid ? No
answer to that one......

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:50

Frankly I think he has been very patient with you Roger - you have been
asking questions which I have answered - never mind him - on more than one
occasion - and goodness knows I am not an apologist for CITES.
But whatever objections one has, you can't get past certain things like
Italy and UK both being bothe EU countries -and Malaya not being an EU
country , to quote just one example.

I have just had this reply from Simon James at
DEFRA.................................make your own mind up about what to
call him!!!

From: Ronald Newstead
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:15

Surely the answer is to get a load of foreign catalogues and ask him to
confirm that the specific orchids referred to in the catalogue are not
prohibited imports.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Beaurocrats and regulations
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:05

1. As long as we are a member of the EU , and have agreed by ratification of
the appropriate treaty ( Maastricht , in this case) to hand over certain
powers to Brussels, we have to do what they say.
2. If you suggest to your MP that we should disregard them,and go our own
way , you are asking the Secretary of State ( I think John Prescott , here)
to break the law. Of course he won't do that over a matter which 99.99% of
the population would regard as trivial.
3. If you suggest that UK should leave the EU solely because you don't like
their rules about orchids, what are the chances that Parliament will agree
with you ?
4. If you ask your MP to complain to DEFRA that their interpretation of the
EU Directive on CITES for plants, specifically orchids, is unreasonable ,
over-complex, and unnecessary , there is a faint chance that your MP will
feel that you have a case , and will pass your letter on to DEFRA. Enough
letters , and there is a faint chance that they will have some effect - as
to what they will then do , see below....
5. If you ask your Euro MP to complain that the Directive issued by Brussels
in relation to CITES for orchids, is over-complex, and unneccessary , what
is they chance that they will pass the letter on to the appropriate
department ? Even if good , I can tell you what they will do about it if it
is passed on - and that is the same thing as DEFRA would do if they felt
anything was necessary .
6. Because they do not understand anything about the technicalities -
hybrid/species/genus/grex/cladistic analysis - they are all greek to them -
they advisors for such matters. In UK RBG - Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew ( or
their staff) are the advisors. I do not know who EU use, perhaps the sam,
or the German equivalent. They will pass it to them - the botanists - the
very people who suggested all this in the first place - for the reasons I
have so cynically explained before. Namely, they think that orchids should
stay where they are in the wild and not be collected, and if their rules to
ensure that mean that there is no trade , well, hard lines, that's not their
job is it....
Bingo - you have completed the circle.....

From: Gordon Walker
Sent: 29 October 2005 18:16
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: [OrchidTalk] Beaurocrats and regulations

Why don't we all send a letter to our MP who is supposed to represent us and
ask for the matter to be raised in the appropriate Parliamentary department?
The letter to be written by one person with full knowledge of the problems
and agreed first by all who contribute to the forum before being sent to the
MP.
This way the same question/s should be in front of the department from all
over the UK. This can be followed up by a further letter to the MP
representing us at the European Parliament bringing in people from all the
orchid growers in the EU.
Ok I know it will take time but we may get some action before our
grandchildren become pensioners.(only joking!!! I hope).
Gordon.

From: TIGER
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Unknown cymbidium
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:20

F.A.O nina chandler
how are the shoots doing that sprouted in 1993?
hope all is well with you

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Beaurocrats and regulations
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:20

Whilst appreciating all that you say Geoff if no one tries then there is no point in us complaining. I am thinking about Robert the Bruce is credited with saying..!!!
Gordon.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Semi Hydro and Phals.
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:15

Hello all, my question is :- Can Phals be grown in semi hydro culture? (SHC) The reason I ask is because I seem to recall reading that SHC was good for most orchids but not Phals. I can't recall where this was, I rather think it was some thing that Geoff wrote.
Last December I obtained some young phal plants, just past the seedling stage. There was quite a lot (for me) of them, 47in fact, and as on the last occasion I tried growing this size of plant, I had a lot of failures through root loss, I decided put some of them into gravel and Perlite mix. During the summer, which was hot and sunny in these parts, and because of enforced absence I was concerned that the humidity would get too low, so I left some water in the bottom of the propagator, and to cut a long story short, those plants have grown like the clappers, far out growing the similar plants in the conventional bark. Massive roots that went strait down the pot to the water and excellent leaf growth. The question is, now that I have to pot them on, shall I leave them in SHC, or put them in bark and continue with conventional growing method.
I know that Rocky (hello) grows adult phals in stones, as indeed I do,and they are doing OK. but not in SHC. I would be most grateful to hear from the List members if any one has grown phals, especially young plants this way. I confess that I put a couple of the cheap ASDA phals in to stones and SHC and the root growth is tremendous, big thick and dark green with white speckles, whilst the leaf is neither better or worse.

Further, has anyone used or has in use a moving light system. I mean the kind that traverses back and forth along the bench. If so what please are the pros and cons of such a system.I believe it used successfully by growers of plants other than Orchids.
Ronbow.

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Beaurocrats and regulations
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 05:45

I think what you say makes a lot of sense - we are never going to be
able to change to rules, but perhaps we can, over time, persuade 'them'
to be a little bit more cooperative. They ARE people, and they just want
to do what they think is right, basically, and in that situation a
friendly and respectful approach can work wonders.

Geoffrey Hands wrote:
[...]
> 6. Because they do not understand anything about the technicalities -
> hybrid/species/genus/grex/cladistic analysis - they are all greek to them -
> they advisors for such matters. In UK RBG - Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew ( or
> their staff) are the advisors.

I don't think the problem is Kew's experts - I have talked to some of
them and they seem to feel that CITES is as much a pain as we do. Kew
also has an interest in being able to transport orchids and other plants
around the world, and CITES is quite clearly hampering them. They know
quite well that in order to preserve endangered species is to start
growing them in as many collections as possible; most of the natural
habitats are going to be destroyed due to climate change and the general
destructiveness of mankind, so this is the only way.

My interpretation of CITES is that it is the result of good intentions
of conservationists being manhandled by political and business interests
and twisted around to work exclusively in favour of big money - isn't
this always the way things work?

What we can do, though, is try to find a better way to live with this,
eg. by working together, the small orchid growers asd a group and with
the experts at Kew and other botanical gardens and universities. We have
interests in common when it comes to orchids.

From: Silvio a Beccara
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Semi Hydro and Phals.
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:55

I think they can definitely be grown in SHC. I am myself trying, with a small
P. schilleriana. I use LECA as a substrate and an ion exchange resin as a
fertiliser. It's been there some 4 months now, and I think it's healthy and
grows reasonably well. More information can be gathered on the following
website (includes a forum):

I am trying the flood and drain techinque on other phals of mine, though,
since I think it provides better oxygenation of roots, is less prone to
errors (aka too much watering), doesn't require employing expensive SHC pots,
and new plants can be easily added to the culture tray without the need for
new ad-hoc hardware.

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] overzealous cattleya question
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:30

Something is certainly not right if previous bulbs are considerably bigger than those current. My temptation would be to knock it out of it's pot and see what's up with the roots. Small bulbs suggest it is not getting much nutrition if it is growing in the same conditions as your potinaras. I would clean up the roots and repot into fresh medium and if it is very big I might even split it - certainly remove the dead backbulbs.

From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Vitamin B1
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:40

At the Devon show in the UK this weekend I noticed that a number of
expensive preparations for orchids contain vitamin B1: Thiamine. Wondering
what it is supposed to do I looked on the web and found this interesting
little snippet (among many others). I thought those of you who don't already
know it might find it interesting:

Thiamine (Vitamin B1):
B1 is produced in the foliage of plants and transported down to the root
system where it has an effect on root growth and development. In tissue
culture and rooting preparations, B1 helps to stimulate the growth of roots
on new plants but this is best used in combination with rooting hormones. B1
can assist at any time in a plant's life with root regeneration where the
root system has been damaged or stressed through high salinity, pathogens
such as pythium, nutrient deficiencies and toxicities loading etc but only
if the foliage of the plant is unable to produce sufficient supplies for
this purpose. Use of B1 is seen as a 'back up' or 'insurance policy' as it
is difficult to determine if a plant which has come under stress is capable
of producing sufficient B1 to send down to the root system to assist in cell
development. Use of Vitamin B1 in plants is the same as in humans - it is
most useful where a deficiency exists for some reason. B1 is best applied as
a seed soak to speed up germination (root growth), or as a foliar spray.

B1 is an organic compound and as such is rapidly broken down by microbes in
the nutrient solution (they love to eat carbon based compounds), adding high
amounts of B1 may ensure sufficient thiamine stays in the nutrient for a few
hours for some plant uptake, but generally microbes will break this down
rapidly as well. FHD

From: lynne edwards
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Digest 2005 Volume 105
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:40

It is flowering well, but am a bit concerned about very small glass container it was supplied in. Do I put it in a bigger container, also what fertiliser do I use. Do they have to outgrow their pot.

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Phals
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:45

Ron - I grow most of my Phals by the conventional bark method but I do have one in semi-hydroculture. It was small and ailing a bit so I transferred it about a year ago. It has put up two new leaves since then and is growing steadily so it seems to be successful. I have it in Seramis granules with an indicator and I use Seramis feed for it. I expect it would do as well in other inert material. Jean

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: CITES
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:15

Frankly I think he has been very patient with you Roger - you have been asking questions which I have answered - never mind him - on more than one occasion - and goodness knows I am not an apologist for CITES.
But whatever objections one has, you can't get past certain things like Italy and UK both being both EU countries -and Malaya not being an EU country , to quote just one example.

I can't buy the same Cattleya hybrid from South Carolina U.S.A. same as I can from Italy. What do you think the nursery in the States would say to this? This is what I am on about..........fair trade, and there 'aint none! And ask those responsible for this so called E.U. state of affairs, why can't I buy from America without the need of CITES, when I can from Europe. Bloody hell everyone can't those idiots at the top see the difference??????

I am soon going to E-mail Joyce Stewart and Henry Oakley about our collective attempt to get CITES altered..........watch this space.

Gordon mentioned Robert the Bruce, well, my great, great, great Grandfather was Rob Roy McGregor, and if anyone thinks that I will tire or maybe get fed up with getting CITES changed..........think again.

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: overzealous cattleya question
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:10

Hi Andy: Thanks for responding, no one else has! Here a few shots of the plant. You can clearly see psbulbs at all stages of development. Notice new growths growing from the base of the tiny psbulbs. I removed 2 of these small stalled psbulbs at the suggestion of a friend, but don't know how far to take it. It is in s/h and is under 400watt HPS and full south exposure window. Lights are on for 14 hours/day. New top roots get misted every other day, the reservoir is allowed to go dry before topping up. New roots have 1/4" green tips on them and look very healthy. What do you think?
Thanks, I really appreciate your help.
Sharon in Calgary

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Digest 2005 Volume 105
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:10

It is very difficult to keep an orchid alive in a glass container - stores
put them in them because they look pretty - but they spell death to the
plant.
You must give the plant water , but roots need air about them too . Move it
into a similar size plant pot with drainageholes - and when you water (
like, holding the pot under the kitchen cold tap, say once a week) the water
should pour out of the drain holes. If it doesn't pour out like that, then
its days are numbered.
Of course, once the pot has drained, you can put the whole thing into an
ornamental container - a glass vase or whatever - just as long as it allows
air to get to the roots .
Geoff.

It is flowering well, but am a bit concerned about very small glass
container it was supplied in.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: Cites---Action
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:25

Hi All,
We have now been huffing and puffing for long enough in my opinion and now is the time for action or to drop it once and for all.
I am therefore suggesting that we all e-mail "the list" confirming if we are to go ahead or not.
I still say that the first step is through our MP but I stand to be corrected. By the way my comment on Robert the Bruce concerned a spider he was watching whilst hiding in a cave, The spider tried eight times before closing a gap in the making of its web.
The saying "if at first you don't succeed try , try and try again" is supposed to originate from there and surely this is what we must do to get a fair and sensible set of rules from our "concerned" bodies who look after conservation of orchids. Once we have the results we can decide who will be willing to do the donkey work if we are to proceed..
Gordon.

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk list
Subject: new orchid
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:35

Hi there Lynne and welcome to our group. It depends on several things the most important I would say is what orchid it is - could you let us know what type of orchid it is and what size it is. You probably have a label with it so if you could let us all know then I'm sure one of us can help you. The general rule is leave well alone unless really pot bound but there are a few exceptions I have found. Jean

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2005 Archived Messages

October 22—31