2005 mailing list messages

2005 Archived Messages

Click on the week you require.
To return to the main Archive index, click the button at the bottom of the page.
Links to all the Photos and other images accompanying the list messages can be found on the Images page.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: CITES.
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:45

Just imagine that you or I are on holiday in the U.S.A. We visit an Orchid Nursery and fall in love with a Phalaenopsis hybrid that is for sale.

We buy it and bring it home, bare root, with a Bill of Health, then the Customs Official tells us that a CITES document is needed. We ask why? And then the Customs Official, who are very often the 'Piggy in the Middle' tell us that CITES is required because the orchid that we are bringing into the Country is an ENDANGERED SPECIES.

I have recently received an E-mail from an old friend.....Brian Rittershausen, and Brian's letter will be added to our 'Ammunition'.

The only way to get CITES de-regulated is to keep hammering away at THEM, whoever they are and get the obviously outdated system sorted out..........but only where hybrids/cloned items etc are concerned.

Dear Roger
Thank you for your Email re Cites and hybrids. For over thirty years I have been fighting this, attending two or three meetings a year with DEFRA, RHS, Kew etc and also meetings with my MP all to no avail.
I wish you luck with your endeavours.
Kind regards
Brian
Brian Rittershausen
Chairman British Orchid Growers assc

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: CITES
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:20

I have just been looking at the WWW, and especially at the web sites of, the Royal Horticultural Society and Kew Gardens.

I have attached two articles for all of our world wide members to have a look at, and to form your own opinion.

Please note the words in the Kew attachment about saving CERTAIN plants. And in the RHS attachment the piece about encouraging nurseries to propagate plants.

Of course WE ALL want this to happen, BUT, if hybrids and cloned plants are taken out of the list, then much more time could go into trying to save ENDANGERED SPECIES.

Again, it actually says 'Certain plants', so for heavens sake you CITES people, get yourselves sorted out, do the job that CITES was intended for, and we all back you on this issue, but have a good look in the mirror and head the words of the wonderful Scottish poet.....Oh the gift to give us..........to see ourselves as others see us.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES.
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:45

Rocky. I do not know too much about it (CITES) as I have only had 5 years in orchids and probable will never use such a document. Never the less I do condone your efforts and hope success will be forthcoming. To that end may I suggest a united approach to each of our MP's. I have no idea how many UK residents there are on the "List" enough perhaps to get it through to the people that matter to get these sort of things brought about. I will do any thing I can but I cannot, like some of you speak from experience.
Success, Ronbow.

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: cold nights -now what?
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 05:55

Hi all: I have done as Geoff suggested and have had my Den kingianum and Den nobile var sanderianum outside in full sun since the beginning of August. Over the last 6 weeks we have had very low temps down to 2C (but ave 6-9C). So that should do it for the cool nights for 6 weeks part. We are about to get regular frost at night and I am bringing in those plants to the gh, where they will stay until it becomes uneconomical to keep them there, probably at the end of October (I hope). Then they will go under a metal hallide light or CFL's. Do you think that the now warmer nights will be ok for them ie: will that cold period be enough to get them to bloom? Should I water them when they get dry or withhold water? Please tell me what to do?? These are my first orchids of these types so I haven't a clue. I have read a lot but the advice seems to be so contradictory. PS: They are in clay pellets in plastic pots -not s/h.
Thanks in advance
Sharon in Calgary

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: CITES
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:40

Rocky, I agree the RHS article makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately the Kew
document is blank here - perhaps you could send it again (please ensure
there is text in it!).

As I see it the main problem is that CITES was originally - quite rightly -
intended to apply to animals, and certain aspects of it are unsuitable for
plants.

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] CITES - and a suggestion
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:15

Which format did you send these texts in? To me the Kew on appeared to
be a picture on which all the lines of the text had been squashed on
top of each other, and the RHS one only had 1 paragraph.

1. It is free of charge.
2. You can, if you must, save documents in Microsoft Word XP format.
3. It can do more or less everything that Word can, plus a few things
Word can't

- the thing is, documents produced with MS Word cannot always be read
with other versions of Word; Microsoft have been notorious for not
caring about these things, or even to see their advantage in breaking
compatibility, so the competition couldn't catch up. Openoffice, on the
other hand don't need to have a competitive edge, since there's no money
involved.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: CITES - and a suggestion
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:40

Actually, the only way to ensure everyone can read the text is to send just
that - plain text. I have a Word document reader (although it doesn't read
all flavours of Word) but not an OpenOffice one - I'm not sure there is one
for RISC OS.

From: Beccy Holmes
To: Orchid Talk Digest
Subject: Showing ethics
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 10:30

Following the thread about showing plants very recently purchased, I was
wondering what other members thoughts were about showing flowers and plants
cultivated at work? I am a single-handed, employed gardener and was thinking
about entering some blooms from work into the local flower show. But then I
thought it perhaps wasn't fair that I had more time and perhaps money than
some to spend on the plants. It would all be my own work, but would it be
right? I dare say some people who have gardeners enter the results of their
workers.

From: Beccy Holmes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Newbury & Jon's plants
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 10:35

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Photos.
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:25

Two of the three photos are of orchids that I IMPORTED from the Italian Orchid Nursery, and I am very pleased with the results.

The other one, Miltassia Dark Star 'Darth Vader' came from Ratcliffe's. I think that what makes this orchid look so good is the white/ivory anther cap and the purple coloured side wings just behind it.

Are Miltonia Dark Star 'Darth Vader', and Odontioda Margaret Holm 'Mary' in any way ENDANGERED SPECIES?
If not, then why are they [I guess] thought to be so by the CITES people. Are they actually NAMED on any list that the poor Customs Officials might have to help them in their work. I think not. So, I once again accuse CITES of working a fiddle, taking money under false pretences. Come on now, own up to it.

The Miltonia Schroderae has five spikes and although only two or three flowers are open at this time, the greenhouse has a lovely fragrance wafting through it, best described as slightly raspberry sort of perfume.....very nice.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] name the Miltassia
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:10

In case you have not had a reply by now, ( I thave been away, and am now
ploughing through 2 weeks of messages) I think your Miltassia (?) is
Miltonia Honolulu. Personally I pot on until too large to handle.

Two weekends ago, I bought the Miltassia (see picture). Does anyone know
the name? The plant has outgrown the pot. Should I break it up in two or
three pieces, or simply put it in a bigger pot once it has finished
flowering?

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fungus or pest?
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:15

It is a fungus and potentially a dangerous one. Clean it all off, and
discard the compost. Wash the ro0ots with Physan , fairly strong - like a
table spoon per gallon and repot in clean compost and a clean pot.
I recall a nursery in Thailand losing a lot of very good paphs with this.

Yesterday I started repotting the orchids which I had bought at ASDA a few
weeks ago. On one of the Dendrobiums, I found some weired stuff in the pot
(see photograph).
Is this some kind of fungus, or is it a pest? Is there anything I can do
about it?

On the topic of pests. The containers with my seedlings seem to full of
fruitflies. What can I spray on them which isn't harmful?

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newbury
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:20

Now that really is bad news . The BOGA show is not a replacement at all , as
only BOGA members have the right to be there ; they "have to" invite a few
foreigners, or people like me would not bother to go . But with Newbury ,
there was no question of BOGA member or not, and hence we had lots of
foreign nurseries attending who never came to any other show.

Is there no U.K Orchid Society willing to have a go and put on a Newbury
replacement ?

I've just had it confirmed that the last Newbury Orchid show was the last.
The Garden and Leisure Show has been cancelled and so there is no back up
for the Orchid Show.
A great pity that the largest amateur run orchid show in Europe is no more.
Regards

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newbury
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:40

Having spoken to Claudia Whales about this, it is our understanding that
Newbury District Council sponsored the marquee to the tune of UKP7,000. It
unlikely that BOGA or any one OS would be able to afford to do something
similar.

We asked about the possibility of the Orchid Show being included in the
Royal (?) Berkshire Show in September but Claudia pointed out that being a
colder time of year, overnight heating costs would also have to be factored
into the equation. The advice would seem to be don't give up hope entirely,
but don't hold your breath either.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Showing ethics
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 01:50

Most (all ?) Orchid Societies have some sort of rule about showing -
competitively - plants. Usually it is "in the possession of the exhibitor
for 6 months or more" , but some -e.g. Bournemouth - have a 12 month rule.
I do not think that it can make any difference that you grow it at the
office and can tend to it every day - there are some orchid growers who are
so old that they do not go to the office at all - and can tend to theoir
plants not only every office day , but week-end days too ! And we should
feel rather offended if we were banned from competing.
All of this is competitive showing ; if shown non-competitively, there is no
problem even for the plant you bought yesterday.

As for "all my own work" - the RHS does ( I think they still do ?) ask for
the name of the entrant, and the name of the gardener, but this seems a
relic of the past . But there is no suggestion that you cannot compete just
because you have it grown for you , as long as you own it.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cold nights -now what?
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:10

I do not think that the light is too important at this stage - and metal
halide lams can generate rather a lot of heat - so try to avoid giving them
a baking !.
Water is needed - not a lot - but certainly enough to prevent shrivelling of
the bulbs/canes.
A light spray is quite useful.
Some of these plants come from places where the rainfall is nil , or
virtually so , in the "rest" months, but that can be quite misleading , as
the condensation on cold nights can leave plants quite wet by dawn. Some of
the rivers falling from the mountains in Thailand ( e.g. the one running
down from the highest mountain - Doi Inthanon )- seems to be in full spate,
very few feet below the actual summit , in these "dry" months , entirely
from that condensation which first fell on the plants and then drained off.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Newbury
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:35

Of course , we have got BOC next year - at Weston-super-Mare ( October ) ,
so with the London Show presumably back to March and BOGA in August , there
are 3 major shows widely spaced through the year.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Newbury
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:35

Geoff, Thanks for your reply. I was beginning to think I was the only member of this group that was concerned. I did hear yesrerday that a commitee /group had been formed and was trying to arrange a show in Swindon so all is not lost - maybe. Regards
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: [OrchidTalk] RE: Newbury

Now that really is bad news . The BOGA show is not a replacement at all , as only BOGA members have the right to be there ; they "have to" invite a few foreigners, or people like me would not bother to go . But with Newbury , there was no question of BOGA member or not, and hence we had lots of foreign nurseries attending who never came to any other show.

Is there no U.K Orchid Society willing to have a go and put on a Newbury replacement ?

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Showing ethics
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:40

The same, or similar , can be said of many of us. I am a pensioner and can
spend more time than many on my orchids. If you enter them as grown by you
and owned by a.n. other I can see no problem. Regards

From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Photos.
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:25

From: len.handley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: London Orchid Show (RHS)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:30

I'm a bit surprised that none of our regular contributors has yet mentioned
this show. I went on Sunday and would make the following observations:
Easy journey by car from my home near High Wycombe.
Fairly easy free parking.
Only 2 society stands; Thames Valley and Orchid Society of Great Britain. I
took the opportunity of joining OSGB. Membership starts in January and costs
£16, by joining now I got the rest of this year free; I got a free book
called " Orchids" in the Aura Garden Guides series,which seems to be full
of good stuff and is very well produced. Meetings are held on Saturday
afternoons in London, so parking is no problem; I was also given current
issue of their journal and one back number.
The usual South of England trade stands plus David Stead and Dick Warren
from the North.
Several overseas trade stands, including Germany, Belgium and Taiwan (very
expensive).
Phaleanopsis predominated as usual.
My only purchases were a non-orchid (a carniverous plant called sarracenia)
and a glass paperweight ; unfortunately I've got no more room for orchids at
present.
There was a well-attended lecture as an introduction to orchids for
newcomers.
It was well worth a visit..
Len Handley

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Ray Mears Bushcraft.
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:00

I always try to watch Ray Mear's Bushcraft TV programmes, as he is a very clever man, and his knowledge of 'Bushcraft' is highly entertaining.

Last evening I watched him in an hour long programme showing the different seasons in our woodlands, most not far from my home.

But then there was a Springtime shot of an orchid..........just two to tree seconds, and he said something about the 'Early Purple orchid'..........wrong name matey!!! It was the 'Green-veined orchid'. Hope he sticks to what he knows best.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: CITES
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:35

I have just seen a Kew publications list which contains several books and teaching materials on the design and implementation of CITES. You might want to familiarize yourself with this stuff if you are serious about your campaign. Something else I read just recently said that Paphiopedilum vietnamense and the latest Phragmipedium to be discovered have already been almost wiped out by collection and habitat destruction. No matter how inconvenient CITES is for a grower, it is essential that we support its conservation aims.
Hi Jon, and thanks for the article. Yes, I am very serious. Your last paragraph about the Paph and the Phrag: I could not agree more, and I fell that I speak for all orchid enthusiasts, however, if the CITES board get their act together, and de-regulate so as NOT TO BLANKET COVER ALL ORCHIDS, especially the nursery raised ones, then it will leave more time, money, and resources to try to look after the very ENDANGERED SPECIES. I have just come off the phone after speaking to a Customs Official, and he could not agree more about the system as it stands. And he quite liked my description of them as 'Piggy in the Middle'. He at least knew something of the CITES mess.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Newbury
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:25

Thinking about this, I would be very surprised if there was no County Show (
already running) which would not be happy to put on an extra tent and have
an extra attraction to advertise. Like the New Forest Show, The Bath & West,
and so on. Its just a matter of finding someone. But if someone is already
on the case - fine - I have ten thousand other things to do before
bedtime....

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Photos.
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:30

But as I heard it from Leo Averyanov - who knows more about orchids in
Vietnam than anyone ( see his marvellous book , or hear him when the Paph
Society persuades him to come and lecture... he has been botanising , and
writing the flora of Vietnam for very many years... ) ... he says that
P.vietnamense was almost wiped out buy illegal collecting, plants being
smuggled out of the country... CITES did not stop it - it made it more
difficult for plants to end up with honest dealers It is CITES which
creates the black market and the high prices which make smuggling a
worthwhile venture for the people concerned. In shortr , CITES is the
problem, not the answer !

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: real orchids...plus pictures 1-4
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:05

I'm just back from a touring holiday in France , where I took the oportunity
of doing one leg of my journey via Paris so as to take up an invitation from
Vacherot and LeCoufle - who have been in the orchid business there for over
120 years , through 4 or is it 5 generations ?
The nursery has changed a lot since my last visit , some of the original
greenhouses have been demolished to make way for new expensive computer
controlled splendour , and more are to follow when they can find the rather
large amounts of money needful.

I saw some wonderful things - a "blue" miniature phalaenopsis , a
magnificent Vanda hybrid with almost dandelion yellow flowers with chestnut
spots and so much substance that I wondered for a few minutes if it actually
was real , and of course , those wonderful cattleyas . ( I ignore the
dendrobiums, phals, and other stuff which is widely seen ; but the cattleyas
are not ..)

I was allowed behind the scenes, through the usually locked doors, and
enjoyed the French National Collection of Cattleyas which they grow so well.
Needless to say I came home with a rather large box on the back seat , and
left my name on the label, for the next available division , of quite a few
more. There were so many that I fell in love with that I had to be
selective, and only picked ones with a strong perfume.

I'll add a dozen pictures ( spread over 3 messages - because of download
time - these flowers really deserve a big picture.., of some of the ones I
saw and drooled over , but unfortunately can't put names to them reliably,
as I made notes on my PDA ( which I also used for sat-nav on the journey ),
and regrettably a corruption in the programme meant that I had to reboot in
a way which seems to have wiped out my notes. But a rose by any other
name... and when I do get divisions ( Phillippe kept a note of what I asked
for) they will be named .

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: and here are pictures 4-6
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:05

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: and now 7-9
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:05

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Showing ethics
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:20

Hello,
In my younger days, many years ago, when I was actively attending and taking
part in flower and vegetable shows, it was quite common to see exhibits
entered by Lady or Lord or Sir XXXX and which quite clearly had not been
grown by the entrants but on their estate by their gardeners or other staff,
Equally I knew several professional gardeners, as I was, who entered
exhibits grown by them in the course of their work. It was quite the
excepted thing and to my knowledge was never questioned. My fathers staff,
( He owned a market garden.) would ask permission to have some produce to
put into a show, usually ahead of Celery or a few tomatoes.I also knew of
husband and wife who entered several classes and not much if any of the
growing had been done by the wife. She may have helped by closing the
greenhouse window or watered a plant ect, but little else.In those times not
many people were bothered about such things as there were not many cheats
about, and if it was a local show, most people knew who grew what and there
was not so much that could be bought. These days when every one is mobile
and so much is available, well who knows.
Ronbow.

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Vandirea
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:40

Hi Geoff,
the Vandirea (Sedirea japonica x Vanda amesiana), has it been registered under
a specific name with the RHS , or is it still nameless?
I bought my plant about 2 years ago and it produced the first flower. It is very
slow
growing and is still a small plant.
Attached is the picture.
Regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cites
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:40

Roger, try this web site to understand the multi million dollar companies that are against the ordinary Joe from importing his own orchids from smaller foreign growers. Have a look at http://au.news.yahoo.com/050919/3/vzwh.html and see what I mean.Iaccept I am a cynic but the almighty dollar will always win. Regards

From: Janet Fabricant
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] resend the last 3 pics...
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:30

Hi Geoff,
Your cats are absolutely beautiful. Can you put some names to the photos? Thanks.
Janet in Boynton Beach, Florida

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: CITES.
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:00

Thanks to Geoff for his contribution regarding the Vietnamese Paph and to Dennis for the very interesting article about the Taiwan and the Dutch growers.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Vandirea
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:00

I seem to remember that my plant does have a name somewhere on the label - I
will look for it.
Alternatively, I have just bought the latest Wildcatt database, which I have
not tried out yet - I'll see if it is on there - it is supposed to be all
hybrids up to tMarch this year.

I'm a bit behind at the moment after 2 weeks in France, and I'm off on a
photographic/wild-life trip for 4 days on Monday , so bear with me...

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Vandirea
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:30

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: resend the last 3 pics...
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:50

Another of the several e-mails I sent at the same time explains about the
names - the answer being that they were on my PDA and got lost - Windows PDA
seems a very unstable system ! But I am promised divisions in due coures (
they are all plants in the French National Collection ) and they will come
named, and then when I flower them, I can put two and two together... but of
course that is likely to be at least 12 months away , since even if they get
divided next Spring , it will this time next year to see the flowers .
Frustrating !

From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: resend the last 3 pics...
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:50

I would second that - they are some of the most attractive I have seen. One
looked rather too fluorescent for my liking but maybe that was just the way
the colour came out on the photo.

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: question on Sobralias
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:25

Hi. I have a question from a friend:
"I just acquired 4 new orchids last night at the OS meeting. Two are Sobralias and I have no cultural information for one of them and sketchy information on the other.
I know Sobralias are not popular with growers, but I'm hoping someone can give me a few tips. I have a Sobralia crocea which has bloomed before (the pistills are still on the plant) and a Sobralia dorbigyana which is still relatively small (apparently it grows over a metre).
I've potted both in a mix of organic soil, bark and perlite. If this is not what they want, please let me know. I think the S. crocea is predominantly terrestrial but am uncertain of the S. dorbigyana. I also don't know what the light requirements are for either. I assume bright shade and cool temperatures for both. I've searched the internet but only found information on S. crocea. Any information will be greatly appreciated. "
If anyone can provide answers, I know he would be most appreciative.
Cheers
Sharon

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Vandirea/Wildcatt
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:20

Glad to see you have Wildcatt. I find it easier and quicker than the RHS
site. Vandirea Newberry is shown. Regards

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2005 Archived Messages

September 15—21

Archive Index