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2005 Archived Messages


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MONTHDATEDATEDATEDATEMONTHDATEDATEDATEDATE
January 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 February 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-28
March 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 April 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
May 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 June 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
July 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 August 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
September 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 October 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
November 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 December 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31

September 1—7

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CITES
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:45


I think you are not quite up to speed Dennis ( or maybe I misunderstood you
) - the CITES meeting some months ago agreed to allow Taiwanese Phalaenopsis
to be exported/imported anywhere - without CITES. The Dutch were furious -
they grow them too , and the rule does not apply to them - and what did the
British Representatives at the meeting do ? You guess...
lap-dogs of the USA is the description applied by some ( the USA supported
the proposal)....

Geoff.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: coffee
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:05


Thank you Geoff for a very kind thought! Make it tea and I'll be there like a shot!lol

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From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CITES
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:05


Before too many tangents get defined to the point that this discussion
becomes circular, as it is quickly about to, please note that CITES is
an international trade law. It is not a conservation law, per se. It
is not a law to protect endangered species, at least not in a direct
sense. It is a law to restrict the TRADE in endangered species and it
only applies INTERNATIONALLY. It does not have to apply between
countries or states of unions if it so agreed upon. And it has
absolutely no impact on the conservation or trade of any species within
the borders of any country.

As to the Phalaenopsis situation, note that these species were declared
as not endangered, when artificially reproduced, thus trade is
permissible. The way CITES is enforced has developed a policy that
since all orchids were originally listed as endangered and covered by
CITES [an act which I understand may be due to the efforts of an
infamous British orchid taxonomist], to be removed someone must
essentially petition to have something treated otherwise. As a
business deal, the Taiwanese wisely approached the subject from that
angle and won their case.

I will not argue with the assertion that the U.S. federal government is
a "lapdog" to some interest [and I'm biting my tongue to remain civil
about that imbecilic deserter from Crawford who never earned an honest
dollar in his life. . ., and his handlers], but you should be aware
that the State of Hawaii is about to legally challenge the incompetence
of the USDA quarantine regulations and enforcement as a followup to the
roughing-up that the Hawaii Orchid Growers Association received from a
callous and bureaucratic federal judge in Washington, D.C.
Historically, the States have not won many legal challenges on issues
regarding any right to have quarantine regulation stricter than those
of the federal government. One of the not-well-publicized aspects of
the Phalaenopsis story is the intensive bedding the Taiwanese did with
the USDA to get preferential treatment, all on the track of "free
trade." Unfortunately, getting substantive facts from federal
bureaucrats under the current administration is next to impossible.
The State of Hawaii is taking the tack that the failures of federal
quarantine inspections have been some of the primary causes for the
introduction of numerous invasive species (something the horticultural
industry is a leader) and that specifically the Hawaiian environment is
seriously debilitated by numerous invasive pests introduced under lax
quarantine rules. Essentially, the argument being that the health and
welfare of Hawaii residents and the State's economy is threatened by
lax quarantine rules. Florida and California has still pussy-footed
around the issue; but then, look at who are their governors - political
incest runs rampant.

Also, the main reason the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service comes into
play in so many cases is because it is the agency responsible for
enforcing CITES whenever there is a U.S. connection and there is an
ongoing policy presumption that the U.S. will enforce CITES anywhere,
anytime. But, again, Phalaenopsis hybrids and species are not legally
considered endangered when artificially produced. As to how much shit
will hit the fan when a custom officer opens a carton and finds some
wild collected plants included in a shipment. . ., well, we will see.
But a Philippine exporter was nabbed by USFWS when he shipped wild
Phalaenopsis, and other orchids, through the U.S. to France for the
Dijon orchid congress. As a side note, less than 1% of goods shipped
through the U.S. ever get inspected.


Paul

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From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CITES
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:50


Geoffrey Hands wrote:

> But the whole point of our argument Jan, is that the kind of collecting =
> you talk about - in China - and in Thailand too from my own knowledge
> goes = on , and is utterly legal , and has nothing to do with CITES .

Really? I had naively thought that the whole point of CITES was to stop
this; perhaps I made the mistake of thinking in terms of what I am used
to in the West: that orchids are protected by law (and that laws are
generally upheld by the authorities. But of course many countries simply
don't have the resources).

I think a significant improvement to the situation would be if the UN or
similar would work to ensure that every orchid species (as well as other
plants) is not only known but actively propagated. I imagine the
botanical gardens do something like this, but perhaps it isn't quite
comprehensive?

The idea of involving amateur and commercial growers is nice up to a
point, but there are many species that are not all that attractive or
simply very difficult to grow, and I don't think many growers would put
up with spending great amounts of resources on those. Out of the - how
many? - 20000? 40000? - orchid species known to us now, how many would
actually be considered attractive and easy enough? Let face it, what we
see in sale is merely a minute percentage of the total, and by far the
most of the volume is dubious phalaenopsis hybrids and the like. Pretty
and easy, yes, but worth preserving? Not if you ask me.

As for replanting the habitats, I think climate change will mean that we
have to find suitable new places in many cases. Further north or south.
We're in for some interesting times.

/jan

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From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cites
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:15


Thankyou Geoff and Paul for correcting the facts. It still does not change my proposition that major western hybrid orchid producers support their government/administration interpretation of Cites as it protects their industry.
Taiwan had the added assistance of being politically sensetive and therefore had the full weight of government to support their application.
Ron, the best of luck, but until you either set up a multimillion dollar hybrid orchid importation business or become a political desireable I doubt you will suceed.
Regards

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From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: The answer ??
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 15:50


Just a thought.
If the governing bodies are adamant in the future that Cities is the answer then surely the solution is for the organisations in each country to grow from seed themselves sell flasks to "us" and use the money to re-establish plant colonies in their native habitat. Yes the poor of each country will dig some of them up for sale but from the millions grown from seed does it matter as they have to survive somehow. I see this as the answer to many of our world problems if it wasn't for the "pigheadedness" of beaurocrocy.
Gordon.

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From: roy white
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: EOC Padua
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 19:10


Are any of you going to the EOC at Padua february 2006

OSGB are organising a coach trip, if anyone is interested please contact me

Roy

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From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] The answer ??
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:00


Why not take it a step further and teach the poor people how to do this?
Yes, I know, they won't have the resources etc, but these problems can
be overcome. I seem to remember that there is even a way to get funding
for this kind of 'help poor people to help themselves' projects.

/jan

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From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CITES
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 09:30


Geoff ... Geoff


Trained as a botanist I have to disagree with your stereotyping of
botanists. Some taxonomists might just conceivably fall into this category
but even then you will find them involved in conservation work - take the
involvement of members of the herbarium at Kew in seed exchange and the seed
bank for example. Governments, I suspect, are advised by beaurocrats (and
also ...).


Other than that I agree although corruption is well known in many of the
exporting countries.


:-)


Jonathon

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From: "Schoonjans, Peter-Dieter \(IT\)"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fungus or pest?
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 09:50


All,

Yesterday I started repotting the orchids which I had bought at ASDA a
few weeks ago. On one of the Dendrobiums, I found some weired stuff in
the pot (see photograph).
Is this some kind of fungus, or is it a pest? Is there anything I can
do about it?

On the topic of pests. The containers with my seedlings seem to full of
fruitflies. What can I spray on them which isn't harmful?

Regards,

Peter

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From: "Schoonjans, Peter-Dieter \(IT\)"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: name the Miltassia
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:00


Two weekends ago, I bought the Miltassia (see picture). Does anyone
know the name? The plant has outgrown the pot. Should I break it up in
two or three pieces, or simply put it in a bigger pot once it has
finished flowering?

Thanks,

Peter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] name the Miltassia
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:20


I bought this plant also from a garden centre "no name". Mine is in flower
at the moment is quite fragrant. I think it has Miltonia spectabilis in it
but I'm not sure about Brassia.


Peter Fowler, Alton, U.K.

Birthplace of William Curtis.

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From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Pests.
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:10


Hi Peter,

Have had a good look at your excellent shot of the 'Fungus'/Eggs or whatever.

I do not know what the 'white thing' is, but it does look as though it could be a batch of eggs??!!

Why I answer your E-mail is because I just wonder if you may one day pot one of your orchids in stone chippings..........then you would not get these problems.

Kindest of regards, Rocky.

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From: Alan Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fungus or pest?
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:20


Hi!
If the material has a bluish tinge it is probably slug pellets which have
been wetted. Plenty of it in my greenhouse!

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From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: CITES
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:50


When I was in Thailand, I visited a street market which consisted solely of
orchid plants taken from the forest and I was told that they were sought by
Japanese collectors who would pay high prices for rare orchid plants.
And, in case you are curious, I have to say that I bought none because Peter
Williams, the organiser of our orchid tour would not let me near them (joke)
- also because I am interested in Beauty, not rarity, and would not
cooperate in the destruction of wild habitats.
Ron

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From: James H
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] name the Miltassia
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:55


that is your choice, i would keep it together in a bigger pot, but if you
want 2 or 3 of them then split them, i prefer to have 1 lage plant myself.

On 9/5/05, Schoonjans, Peter-Dieter (IT) wrote:
>
> Two weekends ago, I bought the Miltassia (see picture). Does anyone know
> the name? The plant has outgrown the pot. Should I break it up in two or
> three pieces, or simply put it in a bigger pot once it has finished
> flowering?
> Thanks,
> Peter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James H
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fungus or pest?
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 22:00


it looks like fungus to me, i would treat with a fungicide asap, try to find
a low strength one or use it at 1/4 dilution

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jan
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fungus or pest?
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:10


Schoonjans, Peter-Dieter (IT) wrote:
...
>
> On the topic of pests. The containers with my seedlings seem to full of
> fruitflies. What can I spray on them which isn't harmful?
>
Water? Sorry couldn't resist. I mean, when you think about it, you want
to spray them with something that is harmful to THEM at least. I suspect
fruitflies are always a symptom that the compost isn't good - the flies
themselves aren't directly harming the plants, but when they are able to
breed in your compost, I think it must be too compact - or perhaps too
wet? Don't their maggots live on soft, rotting stuff (like fruit; or
roots!)?

/jan

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From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: name the Miltassia
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 08:25


It looks very similar to the one I bought also from a
garden centre and after some research I decided it
looks a lot like Milt. Honolulu. It is a hybrid with
Milt. spectabilis var. Moreliana on it. So that's what
I called mine... But then, it could really be
anything!

The point is that is a beautiful plant, isn't it?

Francis.

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From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fungus or pest?
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:20


Peter,
I had something similar , about 2 years ago, in a Phal pot. It was in good bark which was still good and in a clear plastic pot and easy to see. At the time I thought they were eggs of some sort of spider mite. The eggs were not as large as yours, but perhaps yours are enlarged somewhat by the excellent photography. Being curious, I isolated the plant so as to see what happened. Well, nothing happened and if they were eggs of some thing they did not hatch and I eventually disposed of the compost.
I did as Rocky suggests and put the plant into river type stones.I still have the plant and it is growing normally. I think you should clean up the roots, perhaps in a mild disincentive then repot in whatever media you use.
Trust this is of help to you.
Ronbow.

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From: "Schoonjans, Peter-Dieter \(IT\)"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: name the Miltassia
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:45


When I asked, I was a bit surprised when the grower told me it was a
crossing of a Miltonia and a Brassia.
The flowers are barely fragrant though.

Peter

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Schoonjans, Peter-Dieter \(IT\)"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Fungus or pest?
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:55


The containers are indeed filled with this orchid mix from Homebase. I
am now shunning away from it.
My phaleanopsis seedlings for example seem to do much better potted in
bark with a plastic bag over it.
However, while they are still very small, like with a leaflengh of
1.5cm, my bark is too coarse to put them in.

Peter

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From: "Schoonjans, Peter-Dieter \(IT\)"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Pests.
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 13:05


Roger,

I'll treat it with some fungicide in case. Maybe I may take up on the
suggestion for this one to put it in stone chippings. The other thing I
need to try is the horse manure. My wife didn't really approve the idea
of then having that in the house. Based in London, we don't have the
luxury of being able to build a greenhouse :-(

Kind regards,

Peter.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Newbury
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:35


I've just had it confirmed that the last Newbury Orchid show was the last. The Garden and Leisure Show has been cancelled and so there is no back up for the Orchid Show.
A great pity that the largest amateur run orchid show in Europe is no more. Regards

---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fruit flies
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:10


A couple of squirts of fly killer in the green house / room will be very harmful to the fruit flies. Thats what I use. Regards

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John W Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fruit flies
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 00:15


On the other hand, those little woolly ball-like things in the original photo (as I recall all this started from) might be spider's eggs and given half a chance might see off fruit flies for you!
John Stanley

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nic van den Bosch
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Digest 2005 Volume 90
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 00:35


To Jean,

Back in July you mentioned that horse manure killed your strawberries.
I dont know how you applied the manure to them but you can look up my
web site to see photos of orchids grown in only fresh horse manure.
Some of the photos are from people who have seen my web site and
planted orchids in horse manure, following the instructions from the
web site, with wonderful results and no regrets.
www.vision.net.au/~nicvdb

regards Nic
www.vision.net.au/~nicvdb

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nic van den Bosch
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Digest 2005 Volume 91
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 01:05


Dear Nancy,

I am so glad to hear you are safe. In July you mentioned to Jean that
you use half horse manure and half gravel/charcoal in some of your
orchids, but 100% in your cymbidiums with spectacular flowering
results. Why do you use 50/50 in the other species? Did you have a
bad experience with an orchid plant in 100% HM?

Regards Nic
www.vision.net.au/~nicvdb

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: horse manure, unwelcome guests
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:20


Hi Nic, your site is most impressive - I shall be back for a further read. I can't argue with how wonderful your plants are growing in horse manure. I live in a seaside town, not many horses here so it is hard to come by. A horse came past our house some years ago and I rushed out with pan and brush and gathered up manure. I had alpine strawberries growing in the garden and put the manure around the top of each plant, digging it in a little. As I said all the plants died. I have no idea why. Perhaps I have been blaming the wrong thing. Who knows? We get alot of slug damage if we are not extremely vigilant so I suppose it's possible something else caused the damage. I decided against growing any more as the year before my alpine strawberries had a poor showing of tiny little strawberries. Thanks for the info. I wouldn't mind trying one or two in manure if I can get it and see what happens. Jean
I thought those little egg like things looked as though they were left my spiders. I have had them in the past as well. Not absolutely sure but there always seem spiders lurking around nearby if I spot any of those egg like things. It doesn't happen often thank goodness as I've enough problems with slugs and snails! Jean

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From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Fruit flies
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:20


I may as well add my two penny-worth and add to the confusion:

My interpretation of the photo would be saprophytic fungi living on the
decaying compost with the white balls being fruiting bodies - in this case
they would be unlikely to cause any harm.

Jon

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re Horse Manure.
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:45


Hello Nic,
I would dearly like to try horse manure in which to grow some orchids. The
results from your pictures are really spectacular.My problem is were do I
get it, the only horses around these parts are under the hoods of the cars.
Much more pollutant to the atmosphere of course and no use to orchids.
Ronbow

"Nic van den Bosch" wrote:

> To Jean,
>
> Back in July you mentioned that horse manure killed your strawberries.
> I dont know how you applied the manure to them but you can look up my
> web site to see photos of orchids grown in only fresh horse manure.
> Some of the photos are from people who have seen my web site and
> planted orchids in horse manure, following the instructions from the
> web site, with wonderful results and no regrets.
> www.vision.net.au/~nicvdb

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Fruit flies
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:55


From the entomological perspective, they look all the world like fungal
fruiting bodies. All organic potting mixes, especially bark-based, are
degraded by many fungi; it is natural and normal. Generally
decomposition fungi pose no direct harm to orchids or other vascular
plants, but they do suck up the nutrients and dry-rot fungi can make it
difficult to keep the media wetted for the plants. The best cure is
repotting, which by the way, is the best cure for fungus gnats, which I
suspect is the likely nuisance mentioned in other messages.

Paul


On 06 Sep 2005, at 06:15 PM, John W Stanley wrote:

> On the other hand, those little woolly ball-like things in the
> original photo (as I recall all this started from) might be spider's
> eggs and given half a chance might see off fruit flies for you!
> John Stanley

------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: memory
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:25


Ron you jogged my memory! I'm pretty sure that was the problem with my alpine strawberries. They were burned by the manure. Jean

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John W Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Fruit flies-spiders eggs and fungal mycelium
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:40


Hi Paul,
yet again, I stand corrected! Just a suggestion!
But they have an uncanny resemblance to the eggs laid by friends of mine that populate the recesses around my front door and eventually spread their tribes of minature spiders onto the pot plant nearby! Come to think of though, they are smooth balls within a woolly ?protective wrapping whereas the pictured ones are individually woolly with ?mycelium. Can't recall if there was a scale mentioned. Anyway, happy to be a catalyst for your words of wisdom. Hope a few others benefit too!
Cheers
John

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