From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 04:35

Hello Gary and all -
A couple of years ago Dr. Martin Motes, who is pretty
legendary for breeding spectacular vandaceous plants
(also a winner of some 'plus grand' award at the WOC
in Dijon), addressed our society.
He said to water vandas until the roots were a
'uniform dark green'. This might involve hosing them
down for a few minutes, then hosing down again 10-15
minutes later. And perhaps a third time.
He said that 'misting' and 'spraying' generated tiny,
sissy roots. What we wanted to develop by heavy
watering was your brawny, thick, strong all-American
roots.
After following his advice for these past few years, I
think he was onto something. My plants are in wood or
plastic baskets with no medium. The roots are like
fingers, thick, wiry, and plentiful. Blooming is
downright inspirational.
Of course, I live in the hotter, sunnier corner of
Eden.
Regards - Nancy

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat.
(It's not the heat, it's the humidity.)

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 09:10

Yes , wooden baskets are a great basis for growing Vandas without any
compost medium, if you live in the right place/have the right weather, etc.
Thailand has given them up because of cost only.
I always found that young plants well established that way grew brilliantly
for me in UK - but only for a couple of years . Don't know what happened
after that , but they definitely went off . I assume something in the water
accumulated in the wood. They do not grow as well in bark compost in
plastic pots, but they do not go off after a year or two this way.
The best way - as far as the plants are concerned , that I have found, is
hydroponics, where the plants can just sit in an empty pot , ( same thing as
a basket) being held in place by wire, and then get flooded every few hours
( summertime) - this is of course exactly what Martin suggests - or the
exact equivalent.. The problem with the hydroponic route is that the things
grow so well that the roots of each plant become all intertwined with the
next plants and it almost needs a machete to cut a plant out in order to
scratch one's head and wonder how it is ever going to be put into a
condition where it can be taken to a show...

Geoff.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Cool house temperatures.
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:00

Roger, I tried to get a response on minimum temperatures a while back witha slight degree of success. As far as I can determine, in europe, the minimum temperature for the cool growing range of orchids is 10C or 50F. America and Australia I think at times use 12C. Many Cymbidiums can go down to 7C or 45F and, I amtold, need to for buds to initiate.(Mine are now begining to spike based at the bottom of a west facing wall). European terrestrials are happy down to -2C.
As far as I can see you set your thermostat at what you think and be prepared to loose a few as you learn. Remember light and humidity also have a great effect.
Regards

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Temperatures for Cool orchid growing.
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 20:35

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for your reply and the information. As you said, you did have a slight degree of success, emphasis on the 'degree' maybe........could not miss that one.

Touching on your slight degree of success, this is what I am after. Perhaps I had better explain.

I've been growing for about thirty eight years, and what I would like to see is a table of figures telling of how growth would be almost halted at a certain degree, while perhaps a couple of degrees higher would give excellent results. But as yet I have not seen such a table of figures.

Of course in the back of my mind is the 'drop' between daytime temperatures and night-time temperatures. For instance, this past week in the New Forest area we have had some delightful very warm days, and then the nights have been cooler than of late. Last night in my cool house the temperature dropped to 46 degrees Fahrenheit, but of course this was only for an hour or so, and in the morning the temps soon shot up. Ideal growing weather!!!

Maybe we will get some more information.

Regards, Rocky.

rom: Alan Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cool growing temperatures
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:10

Hi Roger!
In our orchid growing household I am responsible for cool growing
and Tricia for warm growing.Hence, I have been dabbling for more years than
I care to quantify, with varying success, in so called cool plants. If you
ask Janet Plested if a plant is cool growing she will usually answer 'I
grow it intermediate never going below 10C'! I have always kept my winter
minimum temperature to 10C with a mixed collection and understandably got
mixed results. However, it has struck me that if your minimum night
temperature is 10C your minimum day temperature should exceed 15C. Is that
cool? This year I am proposing to reduce my winter night temperature to 8C
and very carefully monitor what transpires.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Temperatures for Cool orchid growing.
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:45

Now I see what you are looking for. When we moved to North Devon the greenhouse erector let me down and so my orchids sat in a garage from mid-november to mid march. The temperature went down to 2C many times.All my mature coelogynes, lycastes, anguloas survived but have only just recovered after two and a half years. This I am sure was because they were kept just damp. I lost most of my seedlings and young plants as they either rotted due to too much water or shrivelled due to a lack of it.Some phals and emma type dendrobiums just survived and are still strugling.
I am sure most pseudo bulb type orchids will survive down to 2C if kept just damp. Regards

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Temperatures for Cool orchid growing.
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:45

I don't intentionally grow cool at present - 15 degrees is my winter night
setting - 17 degrees at present. But Dennis's anecdote reminds me to tell
you that in the winter of 1999/2000 I was growing about a hundred
phalaenopsis in a small hot-house, kept at 18 degrees winter night minimum
, and I decided to put half a dozen of my P.rothschildiana hybrids into
the same house - some folk think they need or at any rate appreciate the
extra heat.

One night the 'stat failed and the heat went off . The temp went down to
minus 2 or 3 ( C. ) - in fact it may have been for more than one night
before I discovered it ; in my innocence/stupidity I did not look at the
plants every day - I rotated my orchid days between the four different
greenhouses I had at that time. Not that it made any difference when I
discovered it - the damage was done.

The phals were actually being grown hydroponically , and the electric pump
in the tank kept the water above freezing , although I suppose it went down
near to it and that water was pumped around the roots about once a day..

When I discovered the situation, the phals were in a bad way - it took a
long time for some of them to recover, and maybe two thirds were binned then
or soon afterwards when they failed to show signs of life . (I doubt if I
kept any of them in the longer run )

But what concerned me more were the paphs . Some of the hybrids are very
expensive plants - one my wife had bought for me as a special wedding
anniversary present - paying much more than I wanted her to pay ( a three
figure sum in fact , for an awarded Transvaal division) and another was a
very good Susan Booth I was thinking of putting up for a possible AM .
They were all green, and maybe alive , and fortunately , were being kept
fairly dry ; they were nursed afterwards most of the existing growths never
grew any larger , but eventually - sometimes after as long as three years, a
new growth appeared . The best of them is now in flower - another Transvaal
, but this is the first time it has flowered since that frost, and the
others although near or up to flowering size, have not yet made it. One
serious check like that means that it takes so long for the plant to recover
that you might just as well throw them away ( very expensive plants being
the exception )

Lots of morals here - I will leave you to think of your own.

But a pic of the now flowering Transvaal "Box Lane Beauty" is attached.

Geoff.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: composts - what do you use ?
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:45

I am doing some consultancy work for a firm who sell fertilisers and some
compost materials and who think there is an untapped market for orchid
materials which are really aimed at what growers want and need . This is
interesting , and an opportunity to influence things which can help us all .

I have been supplied with some samples of materials - including some new to
me , although used in other countries , for evaluation , and have also had
samples of the whole range of nutrients and additives which I have been
testing out and commenting on.

The reason for telling you this at the present time is that I keep being
asked whether there is a market for various things and what size packages
will be wanted . I only know what I use and think . I would like to know
what you use, and what you think.

If you could take just a few minutes, please add some answers - just Y for
yes or N for No to each of these questions - or just leave unanswered if
not applicable and just copy this back to me , To avoid clogging up Orchid
Talk please send to me at orchids@waitrose.com ..

Composts

1.Do you buy and use ready-mixed orchid composts - meaning materials
ready to use whether composed of one material or a mixture ?
2.If so, do you buy quantities of 5 litres or less ?
3.Or quantities between 5 and 25 litres ?
4.Or larger quantities ?
5.Do you use the same basic compost but in different grades ,e.g.
seedling grade or standard grade ?
6.Do you ever mix up composts yourself?
7.If so do you use bark as an ingredient ?
8.Perlite as an ingredient ?
9.Sphagnum moss as an ingredient ?
10.Charcoal as an ingredient ?
11.Peat as an ingredient ?
12.Diatomite as an ingredient ?
13.Coco husk chunks as an ingredient
14.Coco fibre ( coir) as an ingredient ?
15.Rockwool in any form ?
16.If you use rockwool do you use it on its own ?
17.Or with Perlite ?
18.Or as part of a more complex mixture ?
19.Hydroleca/hydrotone/baked clay pebbles as an ingredient ?
20.Cork as an ingredient ?
21.Osmunda fibre as an ingredient ?
22.Tree fern chunks or fibre as an ingredient ?
23.Do you use anything else , but which is not usually included in
orchid composts - such as John Innes, Loam.leaf mould ?
24.If you could have a different mixture made up , in your normal
quantities- without you having to buy an undesirably large amount , what
would the formula be ? ( For example seedling bark3,charcoal1,Perlite1 -
where the figures mean parts by volume)
25.Have you ever used any of the materials which have to be
reconstituted such as the discs of compressed moss, or coco ?
26.If you have used such materials do you like this, and would welcome
an extension of the range available ?
27.And if so, what ?

Water

28.Do you normally use rain water for your orchids ?
29.Or Reverse Osmosis water ?
30.Or tap water ?
31.Or ground water - meaning water you draw from a stream, lake, well
etc ?
32.Do you use an EC meter to control how much fertiliser you use ?
33.Do you measure the pH by any method ?
34.Do you vary the nutrition summer and winter or grow and bloom or
whatever ?
35.Do you also or alternatively use foliar feed ?
36.Do you flush with plain water and if so how often ?

General

37.Do you use clay pots ?
38.Do you use plastic pots ?
39.Do you use mounting plaques of tree-fern or cork ?
40.Do you repot most of your orchids on a regular basis ?
41.In the Spring ?
42.Every 1 year ?
43.Every 18months ?
44.Every 2 years ?
45.Longer ?
46.Or do you just repot plants individually when you think they need it
?

Please add any comments you wish to make

If this is of interest , I'll summarise the answers

Geoff

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: temp
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:10

Geoff what a wonderful orchid and how sad that you lost others through a cold frosty night. I am always at the mercy of electricity I'm afraid but so far so good. I have a day/night system which is set not to fall below 52F (12C) - as long as there is no power cut I'm safe! I do always worry during the winter that perhaps it may go off for a while. In fact the opposite happened to me a couple of years ago. The thermostat went in my heater and I , like you, didn't go in every day. When I did I found the temp well over 100F and it looked as though it had been like that for at least 2 days! Amazingly nothing suffered that much. I think in the end I had to turf out one and some others took a while to recover. I feel I'm more at the mercy of slugs although this year it has been snails! Not many one of two small ones a one or two large ones but boy can't they cause damage! Jean

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:00

Geoff
Re. Habenarias
Are these the orchids that I took pictures of for you during my second
(and Summer) visit to Thailand?
They were growing on the ground in dappled shade in the rainforest, as I
remember.
Ron

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:00

Geoff
Isn't what you are describing more like Flood & Drain, rather than
Hydroponics?
Ron

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 09:55

Habenarias „ yes, the same genus, but I think a different species.

I would still like to get that orange flowered one , but have never seen it
on offer in this country. I think Peter tried to import some once, but it‹s
rather like sending strawberrys by Royal Mail „ they get here, but in the
form of strawberry jam. . Dormant tubers is the answer , probably.

I think that CITES would not be a problem , but the clumsy bureaucratic
system here „ where I have to get an export permit from a registered nursery
in Thailand, prevents, since the nurseries there do not bother to grow and
offer for sale such an easy plant which their local customers can buy in any
market , and the export demand is insufficient ( or they would think so ) to
justify it.

So it will just have to remain on my wish list , until I see someone growing
it and showing it , here „ and then make them an offerŶ

Geoff.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:30

Basically, yes - I am describing flood and drain - but that is what I call
hydroponics. Let me explain.

Hydroponics is defined in general dictionaries as "growing without soil" .
As a lawyer I can argue that this means growing bare root - which I am doing
with some Vandas hanging up in my greenhouse . The water they get is from my
Jaybird humidifier - only.

Alternatively I can argue that "soil" means precisely that , and if I grow
in pebbles, that is not soil. But then Bark, charcoal , perlite are not soil
, and sphagnum and osmunda are not soil - and who exactly does grow any
orchid in what is really soil ( a few people growing terrestrials do, of
course, but not epiphytes) ? So, either everyone using conventional orchid
culture is using hydroponics or the word "hydroponics" must mean something
different to that.

I have been using the word "hydroculture" to mean growing in water - the
derivation being obvious - and I really do mean "in" - all the time. So I
use the word (hydroponics) to mean flood and drain . In fact , most
commercial hydroponics as used very widely for tomatoes and peppers is
either soilless - meaning no "compost " or media of any kind around the
roots - the roots hanging in a polythene tube which is filled with water
from time-to-time, and when emptied it collapses flat , or grown in Perlite
or some kind of mineral aggregate - power station fly ash is used in UK for
example - but in all cases on the flood and drain principle - which in
effect is consistent with my usage.

Geoff.

Ron Newstead wrote:

Geoff

Isn't what you are describing more like Flood & Drain, rather than
Hydroponics?

Ron

From: suzy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Zygopetalum success
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:20

Hello all,

I thought I would share my first Zygopetalum success. I took the advice
offered by various members and kept it in a cool, well ventilated room and
hey presto. Does anyone have a name for it? I bought it several years ago
from Homebase. The flowers are much bigger and better this year, last year
it languished doing nothing.

I am newly inspired, as a beginner it is easy to become disheartened
especially as i have no greenhouse (or room for one).

Thanks guys

Regards

suzy

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Zygopetalum success
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:05

Hi Suzy

Well done

It looks to me to be Zygolum Louisendorf - it is very widely available
including at Homebase. Has a fantastic fragrance too.

Andy

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Zygo
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:25

Well done Suzy! That is one splendid Zygo. Mine have improved thanks to the help here but they don't have any flowers yet! I live in hope! Jean

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: 2nd posting.
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:20

Hello Peter,
I think this message with picture was not sent,well it was but it did not go out as I was having problem with my set-up at the time.I would not like you to think I was so rude as not to acknowledge or reply to your comment so I am sending it again. If you did get it, then my apologies to you and fellow list members for my errors and lack of Pc know-how.
Ronbow.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Zygopetalum success
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:40

Well done Suzy, It's a lovely plant and very much like one of mine all of
which had no name on the label. Maybe one of our very experienced members
will be able to identify it for you so you must not get disheartened, we all
have to start and hopefully this success will stir you on to more successes.
Ronbow.

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Zygopetalum success
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:55

Congtaulations! Were the flowers really as blue as they appear on my screen?

Ron

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] composts - what do you use ?
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:30

Could you please tell me how I can get rid of the [R A Newstead] which keeps
popping up in my email messages since I sent in my reply to your
questionnaire?

Ron

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: composts - what do you use ?
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 08:50

I have no idea Ron - I didn't use any fancy programme, just a
straightforward e-mail . Perhaps try deleting it from your inbox and sent
folder ? And/or Restore to a week ago ?

Sorry you are having this trouble , but really do not know what to suggest.

Geoff.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: composts etc survey
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:10

Thanks to the 12 people who answered ; I will delay a few days in case any
more replies come in , then summarise for your interest.

Geoffrey Hands

From: MARK GRIFFITHS
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: composts - what do you use ?
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:40

Ron, there is something in your e-mail settings, without knowing what programme it is I'm not sure where. But the setting is something like "insert name on comments", I've seen it in Outlook but they seem to keep moving it! Mark

Ron Newstead wrote:

Could you please tell me how I can get rid of the [R A Newstead] which keeps popping up in my email messages since I sent in my reply to your questionnaire?

Ron

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