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2005 Archived Messages


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MONTHDATEDATEDATEDATEMONTHDATEDATEDATEDATE
January 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 February 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-28
March 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 April 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
May 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 June 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30
July 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31 August 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
September 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 October 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31
November 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-30 December 1-7 8-14 15-21 22-31

August 1—7

From: "Schoonjans, Peter-Dieter \(IT\)"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing:Keikei DSC00663.JPG
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:05


Hello Ron,

I have what looks like a very similar dendrobium (mine had yellow
floweres) and keikies are also appearing. From looking at the picture,
I would say that it is too early to remove them from the main cane.
Leave them on for a while until the new little plants are about 10
centimeter long, and the roots are more developed. If you had more
canes on the dendrobium, I would the stem into pieces.

Peter



From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Keikis.
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 09:15


Hi Ron,

This is how I tackle any Keikis, especially on Dendrobiums.

Let the plant and especially the roots grow to a length that suits you for the potting on.

Then, just hold the part of the Keiki where it joins the main stem. Then waggle it, and gently twist it, and off she comes. It will leave just a little tear, but this is quite normal and soon heals.

Regards, Rocky.



From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: DSC00593.JPG
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:10


Hello Peter, My plant is the pink/purple plant on the right in this group, the pot outside of the tray.Yes I think it did have a perfume. The largest Keikei is almost the 4 cm as advised but I will wait until they are all a bit bigger then I am sure they will be OK.
Just one further thought, what should I plant them in, medium size bark or something inert if I try Hydro or semi-hydro culture?
Thanks to all who have give advice
Ronbow.




From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Importing Orchids.
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 19:25


Hi all,

Last Thursday, I E-mailed D.E.F.R.A. which is supposed to be the British Government Department that you contact to ask about Import Permits and the like.

This is just to 'Test the water' so to speak.

So far I have heard nothing.

A copy of my E-mail:

I wish to import some orchids into the United Kingdom.

Can you please tell me what paperwork I need and how much it will cost me.

Acineta chrysantha
Barkeria spectabilis
Angraecum eburneum
Catsetum atratum
Epidendrum ciliare
Miltonia spectabilis
Oncidium longipes
Phalaenopsis amboensis
Trichopilia tortilis

Many thanks.

Roger J. Grier.


From: Gary Hawkins
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 09:20


Dear All,

About three months ago I purchased a Vanda and an Ascocenda from an Ebay
seller. These were imported from a Thai grower. The roots looked
suspiciously thin, but healthy. Grown ’classically‹ in 2 inch baskets on a
trellis with direct sunlight, with just cork chips for support and twice
daily spraying the roots were still drying out, and going brittle. I had a
chat with a friend who is a plant scientist, and although he knows little
about orchids he told me that thinner roots than might be expected from a
plant specimen were characteristic of hydroponically grown plants „ or
perhaps plants which had been force grown in near 100% humidity at high
temperatures, with heavy feeding (which practically amounts to the same
thing). He thought the plants were unlikely to survive for long, unless
they could be kept alive and develop more healthy roots adapted to more
normal growing conditions.

His advice, which I followed, was to hang a shallow tray under the plants,
trail the roots into this (they were initially very thin and flexible) and
fill the tray with water. To avoid disturbing the roots, or the water going
stagnant, I changed the water every three days with a siphon.

It worked !! The old thin roots survived a couple of months, and both
plants are now growing thick (3-5mm) roots that look like the ’real deal‹.
I read that damaging Vanda‹s root systems usually means that the plants won‹
t flower for a year „ but its great that they survived.

I‹ve sent this to warn those less in the know (like I was!!) to beware of
such plants. From talking to growers it seems that lots of spidery roots
and nothing else means a hydroponically grown plant, and such plants rarely
survive British conditions (and mine are good „ a very bright sunny
well-insulated flat).

I hope this helps someone.

Gary

p.s. My Habenaria Radiata looks like it is going to flower... OOh



From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 18:30


Hi Gary,

Could you tell me how you grow your Hab. radiata?

I have a small tuber, planted in a mix for
terrestrials. It started off well, but then, it just
decided to dry up and now it's just gone. The tuber
looks still ok (I dug it up and potted it back again).

Francis.




From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 20:10


That is very interesting , but I have to say that I am rather sceptical that
the plants were grown hydroponically ; high humidity, yes ; sprayed ,
probably twice per day , yes . Fed frequently - of course - the grower is in
business - the quicker he gets a saleable plant, the better.


Part if the problem is the way you are growing them - direct sunlight !

Vandas - and I take this to mean strap-leaved not semi-terete - do not grow
in direct sunlight .They grow on the lower branches of trees in open
woodland , so that they get dappled shade. In the Thai nurseries, they grow
under 60% shade-cloth , and well set-in from the edges of the shade cloth ,
They grow banks of dendrobiums near the edges, which receive full sunlight,
but provide shade against sun rays coming in under the edges of the cloth
roof.


The thin roots are fairly characteristic of young plants , and also of ones
with ample if not proliferous roots systems. When they produce just a few
roots , especially after import, the roots are thicker , but those are much
less frequently seen in their native land.


But the next question is it growing leaves too ! And how many, how good,
how fast.


Geoff.



From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Importing of orchids.
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 20:15


Hi to all of our world wide members,

Continuing my 'battle' against the British Importing of Orchid Plants complete confusion, here is another nice letter from Paul Kilby.

I have 'highlighted in red' the parts that I think we all need to focus on.

Dear Mr Grier,

Plant Health restrictions relating to the import of orchids depends on the country from which they come from. I am assuming the orchid plants are coming from a country outside of the EC. If this is the case you will need to obtain a Phytosanitary ('plant health') Certificate from the Plant Health Authority in the exporting country. This will involve an inspection of the material and costs will be involved (I am afraid you will need to confirm costs with the authorities in the country involved). Before import you will also need to register with Defra as an importer of plants/plant material. The Defra website gives details of how to register (http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/import/control.htm) and the charges involved for import inspection (http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/import/stat0405.pdf). If, however, the plants are being moved between EC countries then there are no plant health restrictions provided the plants are for your personal use.

Certain orchids are also considered endangered species and listed under CITES legislation. I have, therefore, copied this email to the Defra CITES team who will contact you direct with any requirements under their legislation.

I hope this information is helpful, but if you need anything further please do not hesitate to get back in touch.

Regards.

Paul Kilby
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)
Plant Health Service Delivery Unit
Room 333, Foss House, Kings Pool,
1-2 Peasholme Green, York, YO10 7PX
Telephone: 01904-455188
Fax: 01904-455199
Email: paul.j.kilby@defra.gsi.gov.uk

Looking at the first red highlighted sentence..........why should it depend on which Country?????
As to the information telling that I would have to be registered as an importer..........what a load of rubbish.
Charges for import inspection.????? Just to throw a spanner in their works..........my orchids from Italy did not have any import inspection. So there!
So what makes an Orchid Nursery within the European Union any different than a nursery in other countries. They can all steal, cheat, swindle, or be excellent, truthful and a very good place to buy plants from.

I rest my case.........for now.

Did look at a web site of an American Orchid Nursery which stated that ALL of their plants were either grown from seed, were cloned, or were divisions. What say DEFRA to that??


Regards, Rocky.



From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Importing Orchids.
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 20:30


Hi all,

To add weight to the highlighted sentence:

Certain orchids are also considered endangered species and listed under CITES legislation

The 'endangered species' piece tickles me, because we all know about that just one seed pod given to the correct people would save the species thousands of times over. Hence the piece below which I copied from the Internet.

Who We Are:
Woodstream Orchids is the largest producer of seed grown orchid species and hybrids in the Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Washington D.C.

If Woodstream exported to the U.K. then I would sure be after some of their plants. Have a look at some of their hybrid Lycastes.


Regards, Rocky.



From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 20:40


> I had a chat with a friend who is a plant scientist, and although he knows little about orchids he told me that thinner roots than might be expected from a plant specimen were characteristic of hydroponically grown plants - or perhaps plants which had been force grown in near 100% humidity at high temperatures, with heavy feeding

If you don't mind me saying so, these sound precisely like the (non-hydroponic) conditions you would expect in Thailand! It's hot, humid, and the orchids are fed very well. So, not really a surprise.

They grow very well under shade cloth, and land and labour are cheap. So, I suspect there really is no reason to grow Vandas hydroponically in Thailand.

>His advice, which I followed, was to hang a shallow tray under the plants, trail the roots into this (they were initially very thin and flexible) and fill the tray with water. To avoid disturbing the roots, or the water going stagnant, I changed the water every three days with a siphon.

Glad that the treatment worked. From chats with growers in Singapore (very similar conditions to lowland Thailand), Vandas really needs lots and lots of humidity - they dislike their roots being dried out. Indeed, even though conditions are similarly humid, growers indicate that Vandas are difficult to grow in balconies of high-rise flats - because the wind dries out the roots. They prefer to be grown at ground level (!)

So it may be this, rather than any hydroponics, that caused the problem - i.e., that the conditions in Thailand are the "natural" ones, and the conditions you were imposing were not suitable.

Regards,

Chong-Yee



From: Gary Hawkins
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 08:30


His view was hydroponics or not - it amounts to the same thing. Outside a
greenhouse in the UK the conditions are not achievable. I think the key
point is that the plants I have seen grown from flask in the UK, or small
potted specimens, have very different root systems to the ones grown in
Thailand. I can see that now with the new roots that are growing - fewer
and much thicker than the initial roots. The plants are now growing new
leaves - a couple on each plant. The person I spoke to about this grows
various plants as part of his research work, and says that the root systems
of plants grown hydroponically are quite different - even for young plants.
He also said that many commercial growers of plants of all sorts use growth
hormones, which can produce similar effects. As for the direct sunlight -
there seem to be various opinions about this. If they need 60% shade cloth
in Thailand - then maybe direct sunlight (east window) is OK in the UK -
given far less intense light.

As for the Habenaria Radiata - it has been grown in a three inch pot, in a
1:1 mixture of bark and fince gravel. Temperature is 65-85F, humidity 70%
(I have a humidifier with a sensor which maintains this in the room). It is
watered daily with rain water, and fertilised weekly with ? strength
standard orchid fertiliser. It grew to 25cm tall from planting in late may
to last week, and has now produced a flowering spike with three currently
tiny buds in a few days. It is very thin and reed like with three currently
tiny buds.. I'll put a picture on hear when and if the buds develop

Regards

Geoffrey Hands wrote:

That is very interesting , but I have to say that I am rather sceptical that
the plants were grown hydroponically ; high humidity, yes ; sprayed ,
probably twice per day , yes . Fed frequently - of course - the grower is in
business - the quicker he gets a saleable plant, the better.

Part if the problem is the way you are growing them - direct sunlight !
Vandas - and I take this to mean strap-leaved not semi-terete - do not grow
in direct sunlight .They grow on the lower branches of trees in open
woodland , so that they get dappled shade. In the Thai nurseries, they grow
under 60% shade-cloth , and well set-in from the edges of the shade cloth ,
They grow banks of dendrobiums near the edges, which receive full sunlight,
but provide shade against sun rays coming in under the edges of the cloth
roof.

The thin roots are fairly characteristic of young plants , and also of ones
with ample if not proliferous roots systems. When they produce just a few
roots , especially after import, the roots are thicker , but those are much
less frequently seen in their native land.

But the next question is it growing leaves too ! And how many, how good,
how fast.

Geoff.



From: Gary Hawkins
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Habenaria Radiata
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 08:35


I forgot to mention. I found a few Japanese websites about these. They
grow on the edges of woodlands, verging upon bogs. They need watering DAILY
because of the very free draining potting mix. I have grown mine in bright,
but filtered light. There is little information about them, but they need a
cooler winter period (down to below 50F), with little water, and then a warm
wet summer to flower. I'd wrap the tuber you have in a little damp sphagnum
moss, put it in a plastic bag, and keep it in the fridge or in a porch)
until April. I'd check the bulb weekly to make sure it neither rots, nor
drys out. Given the tubers are so tiny this sounds like the tricky bit.
Then plant it in bark/gravel as I described.

I hope this helps.

Gary



From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Hydroponically Grown Vandas
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:25


Having been to Thailand ( on several occasions) and having taken a light
meter with me, I am able to confirm that the sun‹s rays in Thailand are just
the same as the sun‹s rays in England . My reading suggest that it is just
the same sun , and just the same atmosphere too !

.

More „ if you look at the matter scientifically , and not follow old wive‹s
tales from people who would not know the difference between a Vanda and a
Viburnum anyway , it is summer when the sun is highest in the northern
hemisphere „ and UK and Thailand are both in that half of the globe. BUT in
UK we tend to get more clear skies in summer, whereas the rainy season in
Thailand is in the months with the longest days ; so the difference in
latitude is not as important as it may seem.


And as for raised from the flask in UK „ for Vandas ? I don‹t believe it
. Tell them to pull the other one ! I tried to do it some 15 years ago ,
and after a year, the plants I had deflasked were reduced in number by 75%
and had increased in stature by nil. I did find out how to do it, by going
back to Thailand ,discovering where the nurseries are with the seedlings,
and visiting them to have a look „ and no, they are not in Bangkok - a
600mile journey as I recall it „ although you can see the best large plants
in flower in Bangkok .


But I doubt if anyone in UK is practising what I learnt ( which I have
described in talks at Orchid Soc‹s all over UK from time-to-time) „ or if
they are, they are keeping jolly quiet about it, and not offering their
plants at shows.


Incidentally I have a spike on one of those seedlings ( meristem plantlets)
I deflasked in 1992 „ Ascdm. Yellow Glory ›6 stars“ „ I hope its been
worthy waiting for „ will put a pic up if it is !


Geoff.



From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cool house temperatures.
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:00


Good morning to all of our World Wide Members,

'Cool Growing Orchids', a vast subject, but there is just one question that I would like some feedback on, and it is this:

What do those of you who grow the so called 'Cool Orchids' set your thermostat setting at for the Winter nights?

To give you an idea of the information that I am after, some people say that the temperature should go no lower than 47 degrees Fahrenheit, which is about 8 degrees Celsius.

But what do you all say, bearing in mind that the temperature that you suggest gives you good results.

Many thanks.

Regards, Rocky.

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