2005 mailing list messages

2005 Archived Messages

Click on the week you require.
To return to the main Archive index, click the button at the bottom of the page.
Links to all the Photos and other images accompanying the list messages can be found on the Images page.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Importing Orchids, the continuing saga.
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:15

It has of course been done from time to time ! When I started growing the
firm was Thames Trading , who organised imports from a very large list of
countries, and sent a list out , about once or twice a month . They simply
gave the name and the price, the deadline for the order, and the expected
arrival time. Post and packing was included, and there was a minimum order
value. One month it might be India , then the Phillipines, followed by say
Peru, then Madagascar , and so on. Prices in those far-gone days varied from
12 and a half pence ( Paph insigne) up to about three pounds sterling for
say a Cattleya species in a rarish variety „ say a coerulea variety . ( But
your postman earned about ten pounds a week, to put it in perspective ).
The minimum order varied from a pound or two from India up to five pounds
from one of the more expensive countries

These were, on the whole, wild , collected, plants, and were tatty , and it
needed some skill to flower the a second time „ they were easy to flower
once before they died Ŷ.

Since then I did one or two collective imports when I was an Orchid Soc.
Secretary .

But to do it now involves a lot of work with permits etc „ and remember that
it all has to be done in a short time „ the Permits are mostly good for 6
months from date of issue t o date of arrival of the plants .

And from my experience of dealing with individuals who change their minds,
forget to send the cheque, claim that the plants were not true to name etc
; apart from difficulties with overseas people and maybe changing values of
currency , not to mention problems with customs, plants which are dead on
arrival and so on „ who wants that hassle ? If anyone puts their hand up ,
I‹ll join in the ordersŶ.

It seems to me that there could be a place for someone/a company as an
import coordinator who could take their cut from the savings to be gained by
importing in greater bulk than the individual. Is this naïve? If they
concentrated on those suppliers who have a web site it could even be
possible to easily get more people to add to a planned order.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Import permits.
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:50

I believe we may be getting somewhere. Below is the latest E-mail that I have just received. I hope that you all will notice two things.

First. The remark about all species, regardless of where they are grown is ridiculous, as we all know that many species are now propagated in Orchid Nurseries.

Dear Mr Grier,
A separate permit is required for each species, although the fee is per Genus.

As far as the rest of your comments are concerned I can only say that CITES has decided that the best way to protect wild orchids is to list all species regardless of where they are grown.

Regards
Simon James
Global Wildlife Division
Department for the Environment,
Food & Rural Affairs
Eagle Wing - Zone 1/17/J
Temple Quay House
2 The Square
Temple Quay
Bristol
BS1 6EB
Direct Line: (0117) 3728502
Fax: (0117) 372 8206
e-mail - simon.james@defra.gsi.gov.uk
website: www.ukcites.gov.uk

From: Nic van den Bosch
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Drilling holes.
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 07:25

Hello,
Are you making the holes for extra drainage? If the growing medium is
open to allow free drainage there isn't a need for lots of holes. My
pots have always only had one hole and they never blocked. (using
horse manure of course).

If other materials are mixed with horsemanure the free drainage could
be spoiled, (and also the nutrients balance) but generally pure horse
manure is the best anyway. In Tasmania most people use plastic pots
with one hole and they are mostly growing in horse manure here too.
Terracotta pots should be the same with only one hole.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Import permits.
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:50

Regrettably, Roger , I can tell you the answer in advance ; I have read the
regulations - well the first twenty or thirty pages of them before I got too
bored and threw them away.

They start off, on the first page , saying that " for the purposes of this
treaty , the word species includes hybrid".. And that is typical of the
whole thing.

By the way , its taken you long enough to come to realise what a lot of
rubbish all this is , has it not ?

And it need not be - Bristol will blame it all on Brussels - but other Euro
states do not do all this , and are happy to grant a single permit for a
single fee, without spelling out what orchids are to be imported and filling
in a different form for each and every one of them !

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Oncidumnia
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:10

I attached 2 pictures, one mounted and one potted.
Yes, the plants come from one breeder, Wilferd Duckitt of Duckitt Nurseries
in Darling. They are the biggest Cymbidium grower and exporter in SA. They
export millions of flowers annually. The Oncidumnias is just a hobby. No they
do not sell these plants anywhere else, however there are other breeders
who have registered Oncidumnias:
Ocd. Felice Lee and Ocd. Sunshine Coast both by Multico.
Ocd. Orchidom Saintly by W. Savage
Ocd. Velvet Teenie by Kosaki Orch.
I'm sure there will be more in the near future as it appears that they may grow
like Oncidiums and have the delightfull flowers of the Tolumnias.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Import permits.
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 17:05

Like you I knew long ago what a complete load of rubbish it all is, but I thought that every so often it is worth having a go at 'THEM' to one day hopefully wake them all up to realise that Common Sense is best.

It would be nice to hear from Members of Our Club who have imported orchids successfully without any bother at all, and never bothering with all this unnecessary paperwork.

I have just looked it up in an old gardening book of mine, and it seems to be at the top of the list regarding animal manure, as it has almost equal quantities of Nitrogen, Phosphate, and Potash.

I am going to have a go with it........not using it as a potting compost, but collecting it, putting it in a sack and suspending it in a barrel of rain water.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Oncidumnia
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:40

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Horse manure.
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 08:50

I feel sure that your article about 'Horse manure' surprised many of our Club Members, but your article/website told us everything.

Can you possibly show us all a photo of a newly potted orchid, with the 'lumps' of horse manure, so that we can get an idea of how old the manure is, and the spaces between the lumps.

From: len.handley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Very large file
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:20

Last Friday morning, July 22, my Outlook Express spent an exceedingly long
time trying to download the first of my e-mail messages and eventually gave
up, preventing me receiving any of my messages. As phone time is more
expeensive on weekdays, I decided to leave my e-mails till Saturday. The
same thing happened. On advice , I then abandoned Outlook Express and went
to the BT website (I'm with BT internet) and accessed my message list.
The culprit was a message in a file of over 7Mb addressed to Orchid Talk. I
deleted this message, which I presume contained a lot of pictures, so I
could restore normal service through Outlook Express.
In view of recent discussion on file sizes I am surprised, and disappointed,
that such a large file was sent. Does our webmaster have any control over
these matters ?
Len Handley

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Import permits.
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 11:50

I believe that technically it is only organic ( in the food sense ) if the
horse has been fed on organic food -but of course it is certainly organic in
the animal/vegetable/mineral sense.

I remember being told that the old Sanders firm ( at St.Albans - before
David Sanders at East Grinstead - and I expect that very few will have the
faintest idea of whom I am talking ) used your technique - and come to
think of it I have faint memory of seeing a sack suspended in a tub at the
old Charlesworth nursery , asking, and being told it was horse manure, being
prepared for the calanthes.

Personally , I would want to add a good dash of Physan - horses can have
ailments such as intestinal worms - and the eggs can be in the manure.

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: horse manure
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:05

Just a word of warning! I used horse manure on my alpine strawberries years ago and it killed the lot! I've never used it since so it's a brave person who tried it on orchids. Jean

From: MARK GRIFFITHS
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Phal leaf problem..again
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:15

Hi, I've described this problem in the past, this time it's back in technicolour. I've attached two small photos (hopefully 50kb). The problem is mainly with Phals, it starts with pale patches, then yellow, then the leaves often become pitted. It usually starts with one of the adult (not mewest or oldest) leaves and spreads. I've lost several plants to this. The plants are in the house, watered once a week, feed 3 times a month using ChemPak or other Orchid fertilizers. The water is either rainwater (increasingly so) or tap water that's stood for 24 hours. I've tried various things and some seem to have worked, I thought it might be mites so I have been spraying with Polysect once a week (but that may be the wrong regieme). I thought when I looked with a lens I could see something, but I understand that some of these mites are slow moving and my eyesight is pretty blurred unfortunately.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Very large file
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:25

> Last Friday morning, July 22, my Outlook Express spent an exceedingly
> long time trying to download the first of my e-mail messages and
> eventually gave up, preventing me receiving any of my messages. As phone
> time is more expeensive on weekdays, I decided to leave my e-mails till
> Saturday. The same thing happened. On advice , I then abandoned Outlook
> Express and went to the BT website (I'm with BT internet) and accessed my
> message list. The culprit was a message in a file of over 7Mb addressed
> to Orchid Talk. I deleted this message, which I presume contained a lot
> of pictures, so I could restore normal service through Outlook Express.

I'm sorry to hear you had such trouble. Can you tell me a bit more about
the message? Do you know who the author was, did it have the special
[OrchidTalk] identifier in the subject line which tells you it is genuine,
was there any text? No message of that size has been received here for
re-sending.

> In view of recent discussion on file sizes I am surprised, and
> disappointed, that such a large file was sent.

I can't stop people sending large messages, but I wouldn't send anything of
that size out - the author would get a request to cut down the size and
re-send. Assuming, that is, that it was from a genuine Orchid-Talk
subscriber. If it wasn't a 'proper' list message it would go straight into
the bin :-)

From: Sylvain Van der Walde
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Very large file
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:15

Hello Len.
You can limit the size of email messages in Outlook Express (my limit is 200
Kb).
Go to "Tools", and then " Message rules", and then "Mail".

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phal leaf problem..again
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 19:20

I have a lot of trouble with Phal leaves recently , and I have no doubt at
all that the problem has been the high temperatures.

There are spoilage organisms - bacteria and fungi - which are always present
on our plants , and their reproduction rate goes up at an enormous rate at
high temperatures - someone once quoted the actual rates for ( I think)
Pthium , and I am not sure that I have even spelled that right . But if ,
say , it undergoes a cell division every 24 hours at 15 degrees C, and twice
at 20 , it gets up to once every minute if the temperature gets up to 30 ,
and it seems much worse with phals than almost anything else. Spraying with
Phtsan stops it , but only for a a few hours , as I recently pointed out .
Keeping the temperature down is the only thing .

From: suzy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: horse manure
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:25

I live in Newmarket (Yes a stones throw from the Racecourse) so if anyone
wants manure from a Derby or 2000 guineas winner let me know and i will get
my shovel out and send you a nice steamy packet for a reasonable price. It
will be the best fed and best bred dung around. I am of course being
mischievous.

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] horse manure
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:30

Hi Jean -
I was leery at first, but I use pure, fresh horse
manure in many of my orchids: cymbidiums in 100%
manure. Other species, including Cycnoches, Catasetum,
Zygos, Chysis, etc. in a mixture of about half HM and
half gravel/charcoal.
The growth is very gratifying. My cymbidiums bloom
spectacularly. Every spring, I pull the plant out of
the pot, add 4-6" of fresh HM, and put the plant back
in the same pot. The manure composts down a bit over a
year.
I think the only caveat is to run water through the
pots daily for the first 3 months or so.
My cymbidiums stay outside year-round, and have
tolerated temperatures in the mid-teens (F). Some of
the flower buds have frozen off, but I think the HM
keeps the pseudobulbs toasty. The roots look like
fingers, fat and healthy.
Regards - Nancy

~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Tu es responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as approvoise."
Le Renard en "Le Petit Prince" par Antoine de St. Exupery.

From: MARK GRIFFITHS
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: OT - pdf files on websites
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:50

Hi, for those that have websites, perhaps you can answer a "simple" question re pdf files. If I want people to be able to open and then save pdf files and I am using Frontpage I assume I;

1. upload my mark.pdf to a directory , say "files"
2. Create a hyperlink from a page to whatever/files/mark.pdf

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: OT - pdf files on websites
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:50

> Hi, for those that have websites, perhaps you can answer a "simple"
> question re pdf files. If I want people to be able to open and then save
> pdf files and I am using Frontpage I assume I;

> 1. upload my mark.pdf to a directory , say "files"
> 2. Create a hyperlink from a page to whatever/files/mark.pdf
>
> Is it simply that?
>
> all the best, Mark

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: manure and pdf files
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:10

Tricia I have sent quite a number of PDF files to my website. I just send them up in exactly the same way as any other file and as long as the link you give is correct people will be able to access it. Here is my own menu giving the PDF files on my site and if you take a peep and try you will see what I mean.
http://www.anzwers.org/free/aeranthes/orchidworld/factspdf.htm

Thanks for the information Nancy - sounds interesting but I find it difficult to obtain around here and think I'd prefer to stick with what I know:) - Jean

From: len.handley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Very large file
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:55

Hi Tricia,
As I deleted the file from the list and did not open it, I have no record of
it. However, from memory it said something like "you might like to see
these" and I'm pretty certain that it was from Orchid Talk; if so it seems
odd that no-one else had the same problem. Best forget it !
Len

From: MARK GRIFFITHS
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Phal leaf problem..again
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:55

Hi, I was assuming they were not too hot in the house except for the few days that will have hit 30C outside. Also I think this problem has been there through the spring also when they would be much cooler. Hmmm, still a puzzler!

From: len.handley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Very large file
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:10

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Very large file
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:20

Not everyone can afford it, but when it comes to large files (uploading,
downloading), then Broadband is what is required.
I belong to Tiscali,512Mb/s @ £15.99/ month. No time restrictions.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fungal attack
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:40

Last meeting of the Devon O. S. was Ray Creek talking on root rot. Very interesting. His suggestion was that when growing orchids in artificial conditions ie as we do in greenhouses we should allow them to dry out to kill the phytphthora that cause root rot in epiphytes as happens in the wild. I did not ask about hydroculture, but as the water is not stagnant I doubt it counts.
Now the question - has anyone used Bio Multirose a systemic fungicide on their orchids? If so did it harm them?
Regards

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Horse manure.
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:15

Nice to hear your good results from using Horse manure, do tell us what part of the Globe you live in.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:40

Today I received another E-mail from a Government Department, and what a nice letter it is.

In order to import orchid plants from any country outside of the EC the plants need to be accompanied by a Phytosanitary ('plant health') Certificate. This is basically a statement that the plants have been officially inspected, are free from plant pests and disease and meet EC import requirements. These documents can be obtained from the Plant Health Authority in the exporting country (sometimes nurseries will arrange this for you). This is the only Plant Health document required.

However, I believe that certain orchids are listed under endangered species legislation (CITES) and this may be the 'Import Permit' to which you refer. If this is the case then you will need to contact the Wildlife Licensing and Registration Service of Defra at wildlife.licensing@defra.gsi.gov.uk . Their website address is www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/index.htm.

Paul Kilby
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)
Plant Health Service Delivery Unit
Room 333, Foss House, Kings Pool,
1-2 Peasholme Green, York, YO10 7PX
Telephone: 01904-455188
Fax: 01904-455199
Email: paul.j.kilby@defra.gsi.gov.uk

I note that Paul has made, or should I say that he has given us some information [ I've got to be careful] that is very interesting and as I have said before there does seem to some light at the end of the tunnel.

My point is this, as Paul has stated, the Exporting Nursery should supply the 'Bill of Health', ALSO, I think they should be able to satisfy the 'CITES crowd of stick in the mud people' by stating if the orchids were hybrids, and/or if they were in no way 'Endangered species' by stating that they were laboratory, and/or nursery raised.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Very large file DANGER !!!
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:05

Hey - that‹s a real danger - the expression "You may want to see these" . BE
VERY CAUTIOUS if you see those words

Horror story ... I was expecting pictures of a suppose new paph species from
a known and genuine correspondent - this was a year or two ago - and I had a
message with that heading " you may want to see these.." . I opened the
file, and it was a porn site . But worse - just opening it installed it in
several places on my system without my knowledge. The first I knew a bout it
was a call from the exchange saying that did I know someone was making a lot
of premium rate calls from my line ? I did not even know what a premium rate
call was - but they told me the bill was £245 for the past 24 hours...and
mounting....
What was installed was an auto dialler , which automatically rang the
premium rate porn site in Germany every 10 minutes, night and day....it cut
out I suppose, when the link or whatever was not actuated because I was not
even in front of my computer or was doing something else on it , without me
ever being aware of it. And then rang again ten minutes later...
I had the number blocked, and spent a long time removing it from my system -
I had to go into Registry and delete some files - which is not a task for
the faint-hearted non-geek - one false slip and maybe you have lost
everything...
And spent months in correspondence with BT, my MP and my MEP. I never did
get my money back but maybe I contributed to the change in the rules which
may have stopped this kind of thing (?). BT - who of course take a slice of
the £245 said that they could not stop it , it was against EC law to
interfere with inter-state trade (!) - hence bringing in the MEP and
eventually getting a ruling from Brussels which changed things. Of course I
didn't do that myself , and I understand there were some tens of thousands
of others caught.

But I still shudder when I see those words " You may want to see..." and the
answer is, no I certainly don't.

Hi Tricia,
As I deleted the file from the list and did not open it, I have no record of
it. However, from memory it said something like "you might like to see
these"

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:20

You need a Phytosanitary permit as well as a CITES permit ( and will have to
pay for that to be issued too) - your overseas supplier will charge you for
it - he is the one who has to get it done.

Endangered species is not decided by a little chat over a cup of coffee -
there is an official list - an Appendix to the regulations. Someone (
probably Sandra or Ducha at Kew) will look at your application and check it
against the regulations .

But in practice you won't get that far , since your supplier abroad will
know there is no point in them putting ( say) Vanda coerulea on the export
permit , it will be refused in Thailand , so Kew will never get the chance
to cross it off - unless someone has slipped up.

And as to hybrids, there is no difficulty in getting a permit in most cases
, but import without a permit is illegal.

The ones you won't get a permit for are for example ,where one parent is
newly discovered - such as a Phrag kovachii hybrid. Since there are only 6
plants of Kovacchii legally in existence in cultivation, all at one nursery
, anyone else offering a kovachii hybrid must be breeding from an illegal
plant , and the seedlings are illegal. Under our mad system this probably
means that they have to be destroyed . And they say that CITES is to save
orchids !

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Fungal attack
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:25

I imagine you know the Benlate story Dennis ? I should be very slow to
use any systemic fungicide on any orchid after that !

For those who are too young - the story as I recall it is that the US
cattleya industry used to grow - maybe does again - orchid flowers by the
hundreds of millions for the cut-flower trade. They were de rigeur for the
school prom, mothers day etc. etc etc. They all sprayed their plants with
the Du Pont marvel ( Benlate) and they all produced deformed flowers or
died. Du Pont paid out an awful lot of dollars in compensation..

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Very large file
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:35

In article ,
len.handley wrote:
> Hi Tricia,
> As I deleted the file from the list and did not open it, I have no record
> of it. However, from memory it said something like "you might like to see
> these"

Unfortunately the orchid-talk name has been 'spoofed', which very likely
means that someone somewhere has or did have a virus which sent all the
email addresses on their computer to a spammer who is sending spurious mail
as if it came from orchid-talk.

That is why I add the [OrchidTalk] identifier to all the messages I
re-broadcast so that subscribers can tell the wheat from the chaff!

You can be sure that large messages which purport to come from orchid-talk
don't. Sylvain's advice on limiting the size of emails is excellent and I
would encourage anyone using Outlook Express to follow it.

If you can apply a limit and also look out for the [OrchidTalk] identifier
it should help to prevent the problem occurring again.

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:15

I admire your optimism in this process. I have been in this process for some time and there is no way round any of these rules - I have spoken to enough jobsworths in the last month to last a lifetime!

So far I have sorted out the export permit, the phytosanitary certificate and the import permit. Currently I am stuck on the Application for registration for importers of plant health controlled plants and plant products from outside the EU. The trouble is Q 2 asks for my HM Customs TURN number and the explanitary notes state that if I don't have it to contact my local Senior Plant Health and Seeds Inspector. I have and he's never heard of such a thing.....

From: John W Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Very large file and dangers of . . .
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:25

Like Geoff, I have also had diallers try to install themselves after those
magic words of mischief. Fortunately I managed to notice an oddity when I
was asked if I wished to re-connect a disconnected line. Thereby hangs
another tale; never allow the computer to auto-connect and then you can be
sure you are connecting direct to your provider.

I find that most smallish jpg files, even when purporting to have been sent
as attachments, auto-open beneath the text of an email. Has anyone else
experienced that? And are there any inherent dangers if I have missed a
setting somewhere that prevents it?

Maybe we ought to have more explicit descriptions of the what is in
attachments (this is not an encironemnt for surprises) and then we have
more evidence of plausibility or inplausibility - unless, of course, the
perpetrator is an orchidophile . . . then I give up!
John Stanley

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Horse manure.
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:10

>
Hi Rocky -
I'm in the deep south on the Gulf Coast in Louisiana;
so our outdoor growing season is very long and
stunningly hot. Edenesque, in other words.
Regards - Nancy

~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Tu es responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as approvoise."
Le Renard en "Le Petit Prince" par Antoine de St. Exupery.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: Low Cost Orchids
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:50

Here is a picture of a Zygopetalum purchased at Asda. The flower is much larger than the Zygo I have had for some 2 years. Wonderful value and well worth £4.96.I also got some dens which I think will be ok when they mature. Well done Rocky and thanks. Ronbow. The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
DSC00658.JPG

Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:35

Unless I missed a comment in another message, there is one small point
that might be worth making. According to recent updates to CITES,
plants in flask (automatically assumed artificially cultured) are
exempt from requiring a CITES permit whether they are Appendix I
species or not. This, of course, requires a few more years of growth
before flowers are seen. Does the UK or EU have more stringent
regulations on this matter than that of CITES?

[Question aside: Is the UK entirely submissive to (oops! regulated
by) the EU with regards to plant movement?]

I bring flasks back from Costa Rica frequently, including some of
Appendix I species on occasion, and the U.S. inspectors do not bat an
eye lash. Of course, the phytosanitary certificates are still
required. Never have I been asked for my import permit, though I carry
it when traveling.

Also, the U.S. Dept. of Ag inspectors have a 12 plant policy, which
means that in general, a traveler can bring into the U.S. upwards of 12
plants, bareroot, without having an import permit. For the most part
the plants that get confiscated at most U.S. ports are either potted,
obviously infested/infected, or exceed the 12 plant limit.

One of my interests is in obtaining plants during trips to the UK or
mainland Europe, but it seems difficult and extraordinarily expensive
to get the export permits. So much for free trade! :)

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:55

I wrote to DEFRA about flasks. Below is their response: I gather the restrictions here are more stringent than the rest of the EU - anyone know what it entails for any other EU countries?

> From: Helpline, Library (BCMS)
> Sent: 29 June 2005 08:43
> To: Kemp, Fran (PHD)
> Subject: FW: orchid flasks

> You would need to obtain a Phytosanitary certificate to import Orchid
> Flasks. You would need to contact the Plant Health Organisation in the
> country that you are getting them from. An Inspector would need to
> inspect them and would then issue you a 'plant health' document which you
> would need to show customs. You would also need to be register as an
> importer and there is a charge for a customs inspection when they arrive
> in the UK. Please see link
> http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/import/control.htm
> http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/newsitems/impnews.htm

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:15

This reminds me of the time - some 12 or 15 years ago when I started selling
a few Vandas , and had to be registered as a dealer, since I was importing
the Vandas. I had a visit from the Plant & Nurseries Inspector of MAFF (
Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Farming) who poked about a bit, and
then asked why I had all those moribund ( polite word for dead) plants on
one bench . I pointed out that this was January , and the plants concerned
were Pleiones, which naturally enough had no green leaves at this season,
since they are annually deciduous; I forget the exact words of his answer ,
but it was along the lines of suggesting that either I was an idiot who did
not know anything about orchids , or maybe I was a devious trickster trying
to pull the wool over his eyes , because orchids were green plants by
official definition ; ergo, if not green, they must be dead.

From: len.handley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Very large file DANGER !!!
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:20

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:50

There used to be a five plant rule in UK - to avoid CITES , but it was
scrapped as being unduly generous.

As to UK being submissive to EU , the real answer in my opinion is that the
EU issues a Directive, and then our Parliament passes a law to meet the
requirements, and then the Ministry draft the Rules , and when they do so ,
the over-enthusiastic "lets prove that we are good Europeans" get to work ,
and "Gold Plate" the regulations, making them far more restrictive than is
necessary , and interestingly , far more restrictive than the Rules enacted
in other countries for the same purpose. This is how you get a fee of 20
Euros for an unlimited number of orchids of an unlimited number of kinds in
one EU state, and a fee of 15 Euro ( equivalent0 for each individual genus
in UK.As I pointed out in a submission to Lord Hesketh when he looked into
it as part of some Quango investigating things, if I imported 1000 different
orchids into UK I could easily end up paying some thousands of pounds for
the permits, but to do the same thing in Belgium would cost me 15 Euros. He
thought my comments were unimportant and irrelevant .

Now I am not an EU fan , I voted to join a trade club , and have never been
given the opportunity to say whether I wanted to be a member of a single
European State where there is no parliament to govern us, just a lot of
unelected officials in Brussels on a wonderful gravy train .. OK - sorry
- I'm getting on a hobby horse. But I do have to say that a lot of our
discontent with the EU in UK is because of the way our Civil Service goes
OTT

Unless I missed a comment in another message, there is one small point that
might be worth making. According to recent updates to CITES, plants in flask
(automatically assumed artificially cultured) are exempt from requiring a
CITES permit whether they are Appendix I species or not. This, of course,
requires a few more years of growth before flowers are seen. Does the UK or
EU have more stringent regulations on this matter than that of CITES?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Bifrenaria.
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:55

Thanks very much for the information on Bifrenarias. I decided to take mine from its pot, wash and tidy it, and cut off all old and rotten roots back to the rhizome. This I have done, leaving me with three old good sized but shrivelled backbulbs, and as you can see two small newer growths. If I can just get this plant to start showing some new roots I will be very happy, as then I can save it.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Coelogyne flaccida???
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:00

Some weeks ago, I tore apart my large plant of Coelogyne flaccida, at least I think that is its name??? A couple of days ago I cleaned and tidied up the many portions.

Today I have potted them into mainly three inch/eighty millimetre pots. Some in clay pots with only a hole at there bottom, and some in slotted plastic pots.

Some in 100% Horse manure, a couple in stone chippings only, and some in Horse manure with a topping of stone chippings.

This is an experiment to see how they grow, after reading of Nic's article from far away Tasmania.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Importing orchids from..............
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:30

Thanks to Paul J and Andy for giving us the information that they have 'bumped up against'. Andy's point about the chap/inspector not even having heard of such a piece of paper only highlights the fact that we all do need a much simpler method of obtaining whatever documentation is required. And above all the barest of documentation.

By the way Andy, I will soon be ordering another consignment of orchids from the Italian people as there plants are doing so well in my greenhouse. And when I do order them I will be sticking up two fingers at the CITES system.

Paul, maybe you could ask your people how you would get on if you were to just arrive 'Stateside' with some orchids, then they may just say, if bare root then O.K. and damn the British paperwork.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Zygo.
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:20

Ron, a lovely plant. I think it is a hybrid called either Rein, Rhine or Rhein followesd by Gold, Beauty or other names.Mine is Rein Moonlight. As far as I can determine it is an unregistered cross made in Germany between Zygopetalum Artur Elle and Mendocella grandiflora. It was first sold extensively in the USA. Two years ago I bought mine for £15. I would say you got a bargain. Regards

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Name that plant.
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:35

Hello Rodger,
I have the very same plant,two of them in fact.One bought from a local Garden Centre by my dear Lady whom takes tea with her lady friends whilst touring the local establishments, some of which are quite swish. One has just opened, all 50,000 sqft of it. She has no idea what she is buying, and generally neither do I for there generally is nothing on the label other than orchidee, or misc foliage plants, ect. I wonder if maybe I missed it. Did anyone name it? I think it is an Oncidium, but I am not very clued up on orchids in general for as most list members may know for my first 5 years I only kept Phals. Now I have all sorts, a real dog's breakfast. Still she means well,bless her and most of them, infact all of them are very nice.
Ronbow

From: Beccy Holmes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] pdf files
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:10

I've not perused ALL of your PDF info files, but what I have seen looks
really good. Thank you very much for making this available. Could I possibly
suggest that using specific months in your cultivation / care instructions
when orchid-talk members come from all over the globe isn't appropriate?

>Tricia I have sent quite a number of PDF files to my website.
>http://www.anzwers.org/free/aeranthes/orchidworld/factspdf.htm

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:15

In my innocence, Andy, I thought that the whole purpose of growing
seedlings in Flasks was precisely to avoid disease.
Ron

Beccy thank you for your comments. I hadn't realized that I had done that so I'll go and check on those pages again. I remember that at the beginning I say something like 'it will depend on where you live and what time of year it is' . Thanks for pointing it out I'll go and have a look now - Jean

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:25

The funny story is that Phytosanitary Certificates were once accompanied by
a helpful explanatory note, saying that one of the main purposes was to
certify that the plants concerned had been grown in "soil free of nematodes"
. Since the plants concerned - in flasks - have never been grown in any soil
, this is yet another example of bureaucracy being a complete nonsense .

Oh dear , lets change the subject - its too depressing - try this picture of
my Dendrochilum cobbianum with about 30 spikes.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: neem oil
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:30

I have seen Neem Oil recommended for use in cleaning up plants for shows -
i.e. wiping down t he leaves so as to leave them looking clean and shiny ,
but also natural . I don't like highly gleaming and unnatural leaves.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] neem oil
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 17:00

Geoffrey,
I have cleaned Phal leaves with Neem Oil which I use neat on cotton wool. No ill effects that I Could see. Ronbow.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Importing orchids from non E.U. Countries.
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:05

I agree but it is very annoying to realise that it is a situation of 'jobsworth' or 'job creation' and orchids and orchidists are totally secondary. Regards

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Neem oil
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:10

Geof, I deleted your message as it had corrupted attachments. But to carry the thread I use milk to clean leaves as it is easily cleared after the showing. Regards

What a wonderful orchid Geoff! I wish all of mine looked like that! I was a great believer in Neem but I advise caution! It seems to keep crawlies at bay especially mealy bug but you have to be vigilant and spray at regular intervals - say a month. I lost several plants when I sprayed the leaves just before the sun hit the greenhouse and although it had shading the leaves scorched badly and several plants eventually died. Oil and sun - not advisable! I think most of our members diluted by using about 5 mls to a pint and we added about 3 drops of washing up liquid to help disperse the oily globules and used tepid water and then gave a good shake. Good luck! Jean

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: relief for Geoff's depression
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 00:30

Geoff,
Sorry about helping to ruin your day, yesterday. Maybe the following
will provide a little giggle or two. It seems to be making the
Internet rounds today. This years' roster seems a little weighted
toward Americans, though! Maybe it is those mongrel genes.

> Darwin Awards 2005
>
> Yes, it's that magical time of the year again when
> the Darwin Awards
> are bestowed, honoring the least evolved among us.
> Here then, are the
> glorious winners:
>
> The Winner...
> When his 38-caliber revolver failed to fire at his
> intended victim
> during a hold-up in Long Beach, California, would-be
> robber James
> Elliot did something that can only inspire wonder.
> He peered down the
> barrel and tried the trigger again. This time it
> worked.....
>
> The Runners-up...
>
> 1. The chef at a hotel in Switzerland lost a finger
> in a meat-cutting
> machine and, after a little hopping around,
> submitted a claim to his
> insurance company. The company expecting negligence
> sent out one of
> its men to have a look for himself. He tried the
> machine and lost a
> finger. The chef's claim was approved.
>
> 2. A man who shoveled snow for an hour to clear a
> space for his car
> during a blizzard in Chicago returned with his
> vehicle to find a woman
> had taken the space. Understandably, he shot her.
>
> 3. After stopping for drinks at an illegal bar, a
> Zimbabwean bus
> driver found that the 20 mental patients he was
> supposed to be
> transporting from Harare to Bulawayo had escaped.
> Not wanting to admit
> his incompetence, the driver went to a nearby bus
> stop and offered
> everyone waiting there a free ride. He then
> delivered the passengers
> to the mental hospital, telling the staff that the
> patients were very
> excitable and prone to bizarre fantasies. The
> deception wasn't
> discovered for three days.
>
> 4. An American teenager was in the hospital
> recovering from serious
> head wounds received from an oncoming train. When
> asked how he
> received the injuries, the lad told police that he
> was simply trying to
> see how close he could get his head to a moving
> train before he was
> hit.
>
> 5. A man walked into a Louisiana Circle-K, put a
> $20 bill on the
> counter, and asked for change. When the clerk
> opened the cash drawer,
> the man pulled a gun and asked for all the cash in
> the register, which
> the clerk promptly provided. The man took the cash
> from the clerk and
> fled, leaving the $20 bill on the counter. The
> total amount of cash he
> got from the drawer...$15. (If someone points a gun
> at you and gives
> you money, is a crime committed?)
>
> 6. Seems an Arkansas guy wanted some beer pretty
> badly. He decided
> that he'd just throw a cinderblock through a liquor
> store window, grab
> some booze, and run. So he lifted the cinderblock
> and heaved it over
> his head at the window. The cinderblock bounced
> back and hit the
> would-be thief on the head, knocking him
> unconscious. The liquor store
> window was made of Plexiglas. The whole event was
> caught on videotape.
>
> 7. As a female shopper exited a New York
> convenience store, a man
> grabbed her purse and ran. The clerk called 911
> immediately, and the
> woman was able to give them a detailed description
> of the snatcher.
> Within minutes, the police apprehended the
> snatcher. They put him in
> the car and drove back to the store. The thief was
> then taken out of
> the car and told to stand there for a positive ID.
> To which he
> replied, "Yes, officer, that's her. That's the lady
> I stole the purse
> from."
>
> 8. The Ann Arbor News crime column reported that a
> man walked into a
> Burger King in Ypsilanti, Michigan, at 5 a.m.,
> flashed a gun, and
> demanded cash. The clerk turned him down because he
> said he couldn't
> open the cash register without a food order. When
> the man ordered
> onion rings, the clerk said they weren't available
> for breakfast. The
> man, frustrated, walked away.
>
> And, the winner of the "really stupid" award...
>
> When a man attempted to siphon gasoline from a motor
> home parked on a
> Seattle street, he got much more than he bargained
> for. Police
> arrived at the scene to find a very sick man curled
> up next to a motor
> home near spilled sewage. A police spokesman said
> that the man
> admitted to trying to steal gasoline and plugged his
> siphon hose into
> the motorhome's sewage tank by mistake. The owner
> of the vehicle
> declined to press charges, saying that it was the
> best laugh he'd ever
> had.
>
> In the interest of bettering human kind please share
> these with your
> friends and family ... unless of course one of
> these 10 individuals by
> chance is a distant relative or long lost friend.
> In that case, be
> glad they are distant and hope they remain lost.

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Books for Sale.
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:00

It is the A. Asher & Co, Amsterdam, hardbound reprint, 1963. It is far
superior to the Indian one on offer.

The only drawback is that the maps are in black and white and are
difficult to read.

I will supply, to the purchaser, colour scans of the maps from my
original set, at no extra cost. This will be on normal quality paper.
If the purchaser requires copies of the maps on high quality, glossy
paper, an extra fee will be added. I will have to work this out, but it
will be only about 30p an A4 sheet.

A good buy, as normally double that is often asked for and you are
getting the maps in colour.

From: Beccy Holmes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] pdf
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:40

From: Marina et Jean Michel Dufermon
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] neem oil
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:00

I use "Bioneem" ( try google) which has insecticid effect on my
orchids and hibiscus. My bottle of bioneem is made in India. Before
to use it you have to shake the bottle. The oil has a dark brown
color. I use 4 or 5 tea spoon/10 liters.
After the leaves have a little shiny colors.
Have a good weekend.
--
Yours faithfully,
Jean-Michel Dufermon,
Mangroves help the reef life <

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Beccy
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:20

Hi Beccy - no problem at all, in fact very helpful as I went straight along to change it and then found my PDF software won't work on my new computer!! I have contacted the firm and am waiting for their reply. It wouldn't have come to light maybe for weeks if you hadn't mentioned the file:) - Jean

From: Rudolf Günnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] neem oil
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:45

All parts of the Neem tree are containing substances (more than 40
different compounds) with anti pest effects, too.
The highest concentration is in the olive shaped fruits they contain ca.
40-50% oil.
You can use the oil as following:
The temperature of the oil should be at least 23C otherwise it isn‹t
too viscous not liquid enough.
Use 5ml Neem oil and dilute it in 1l tepid water. If you mix the oil
with an emulsifier before diluting it in water the distribution of the
oil will be better and quicker.
Shake before you use it. You can spray it with a spray bottle or wipe it
over the leaves.
As I know orchids can stand that treatment. In general you can say the
softer the leaves are the more cautious you should be. If you are not
sure whether or not
your orchids can stand the Neem oil treatment start with a test at only
one or two leaves.
But the water/oil mixture smells a bit like garlic.

I have seen Neem Oil recommended for use in cleaning up plants for shows
„ i.e. wiping down t he leaves so as to leave them looking clean and
shiny , but also natural . I don‹t like highly gleaming and unnatural
leaves.
But at what dilution ?
Any ideas ?

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Repotting Lycaste
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:00

I have question about my Lycaste. It says in all the
books I have lloked at that Lyc. should be repotted
when new groth is seen in the spring. The thing is, my
Lycaste is growing a nes shoot right now. It is about
3 inches tall already, and the leaves from the older
bulb are still looking green and healthy, although
they are begining to show some spotting already.

I don't know what to do about it, as this is the first
Lycaste I have purchased, and it definetely needs
repotting, but should I do it now, or wait for the
spring?

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Repotting Lycaste
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:45

Francis, Lycastes are the orchids I mainly grow. I grow mine in a mixture of
moss and perlite and repot when the new growth is just begining to show a
new root, or when the new growth is over two inches tall. I repot every two
years or if the new growth will oversail the edge of the pot. I don't know
where this repotting in the spring came from as we all grow under different
conditions and so our rate of growth will be different. Regards

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Welcome surprise.
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:55

Yesterday I was cleaning up in my garden when, after pruning some overhanging branches from a small shrub, I discovered a nice plant of the Broad leaved helleborine. I did have such a plant a few years ago but it disappeared.

This orchid is not uncommon in peoples garden in the area, and does seem to be thriving.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Repotting Lycaste
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 14:05

Many orchids are best repotted when the new growth is a few inches high ;
and that often happens in Spring. So for your Lycaste - it s Spring...

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Lycaste re-potting.
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 16:50

Next, is the compost looking good enough that it will last for say another season.

And I do not grow any Lycaste plants........but surely this is common sense which will apply to most orchids.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing:Keikei DSC00663.JPG
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:20

Hello all.The picture is a dendrobium that I purchased in May. I think it is Dend Starclass but the label has gone AWOL so I am not sure until I find it and I am sure that no member can help with that. However as you can see it has grown some Kiekies which I want to remove and grow on but, do I remove them by carefully slicing them from the stem, Rather in the manner that one uses when removing a Rose eye for grafting, or do I have to cut the cane into pieces in be between the eyes and then pot them on? Which ever it is, when should I do it? My best to all and many thanks. Ronbow.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Lycaste re-potting.
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:55

I guess you are all right, and I should read less and
follow more my common sense about what plants would
need when they decide to not follow the 'rules'.

By the way Rocky, I must say you are right, I should
re-check my mails before sending them, ha ha! I guess
it was a bit early for me after getting up from bed
and I still was a bit sleepy.

You might slap my wrists at some time in August, as
Shane and I are planning to go to the New forest for a
weekend!

Thanks for all your responses and I guess I should try
and get to this plant at some point in the week.

From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing:Keikei DSC00663.JPG
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:25

Ron - either method will do (depends on whether you want to save the cane). If you want to remove the keikis, give them a twist or use a sharp knife. You can do it now (the roots are long enough)

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2005 Archived Messages

July 22—31