June 2005 mailing list messages

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From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Slightly OT - Digital Cameras
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:00

I don't know what the A's are but you can get the Coolpix 7900 here
http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/86480/art/nikon/coolpix-nikon-coolpix-790.html?srcid=3D513

I have just acquired the 7 megapixel Nikon Coolpix 7900 which focuses to =3D
4cm for =3DA3225. It is excellent on the close-ups, possibly a bit weak on =3D
long distance flash but will also do movie clips - could be handy for those
momentous occasions. Flash can be used down to 1 foot. The weight is =3D 150g
(under 6 ounces). I bought it for general use as well as close-ups. The
other one I looked at was the Fuji F10 which also looks very good.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Purbeck stone, phossils and filosophy!
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:00

Peter, Rocky, Rudolph et al,
Geologically, Purbeck Marble isn't a marble, it is a limestone. Neither
does
it have a high gloss, unless highly polished (which it often is/was). Some
monuments, allegedly of Purbeck Marble were in fact made from a cement of
the debris from more expensive sculpturing (recycling ruled, OK?) and, in
medieval times it was cheaper to transport than lumps of virgin rock.The
naming problem comes from the habit of monumental masons to be rather more
liberal in their use of rock-names than are geologists (which, of course,
they have every right to be since their nomenclature implies fitness for a
purpose) Also, a lot of old geological terms were taken from quarrymen and
masons and adopted - evntually with modification.. However, this can create
confusion because, to a modern geologist, 'marble' is an altered
re-crystallised (metamorphosed) limestone as distinct to a non-metamorphic
sedimentary limestone. Similar conflicts occur with rock names like
'granite' and 'slate' which, in the monumental business cover rocks well
outside the scientific definitions.

If we want to use rocks as a substrate for growing orchids in/on then I
would suggest that the geological definitions are usually better since they
carry implications of chemical composition and sometimes texture. Purbeck
'marble' may well be distinct from Purbeck 'Stone' but both are limestones.
However, for porosity,water retention and potential release of carbonate
I'd put my money on Purbeck Stone. P-marble is less absorbent and would
offer smaller surface area for ion exchang if that is deemed relevant.

Whether or not it would help an orchid used to living up a (gum?) tree is
another matter but certainly, some orchids do make their home on limestone.

These problems also impinge on interpretations of fossils orchids; it would
be useful to know when Rudoph's illustration was made. A photo would be
more
objective. Even so, it is nice to see a pretty convincing drawing. However,
a late Tertiary orchid shouldn't surprise us. Current orchid diversity
didn't occur overnight! For phylogenetic interpretation it would be
wonderful to have a few examples of orchids nand their near relatives from
the Cretaceous during which recent gene-sequencing work suggests that some
pretty exciting orchidaceous events took place. As with many other 'soft'
plants there seems to be an acknowledged paucity of fossil evidence but
that
doesn't mean there were no orchids. The fossil record is a chancy business
and it is remarkable that there are as many fossils as there are. The
presence of fossils proves a former existence of whatever is fossilised,
absence of fossils proves absolutely nothing.

From: MARK GRIFFITHS
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Do the firedance?
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:15

Hi, it seems appropriate that my only flowering of an orchid since my move
last October, is 17 flowers on Lc Patricia "Firedance" or is it Firedance
"Patricia"? While I have lost a number of my plants in moving from a
Newbury windowsill to an Oxford one, and so far no sign of flowers from my
usually predictable Phals, this one plant has erupted into bloom (of course
it's on a different windowsill from the Phals). It's thus making up for it
never flowering since I bought it several years ago and you can see it's
flowering from sheaths 2-3 years old.

From: len.handley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Miltonia identification?
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:40

Very nice Francis, but the file sizes are unnecessarily large so take a long
time to download. Both pictures could have been "cropped" to avoid
transmitting quite so much background image.

can anyone explain my e/ms appear like this only from orchid talk?
being an old codger the eyes are going

It is hard to accept but the names of many orchids will change seemingly
in the near future.
So far morphological characters were the basis for describing and
distinguishing of plants and of course orchids, too. For example, the
genera Oncidium was distinguished from Odontoglossum by the angle
between the lip and column.
These marks are often very uncertain and subjective perceptible by the
author of the plant description (see Jonsplitters).
Although visible features are necessary for purposes of identification,
now scientists and botanists are sure that DNA sequence data have
several advantages over
them.

From: Rudolf G=FCnnel
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Purbeck stone, phossils and filosophy!
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:50

Unfortunately there is no further clue to the date of the find, the date
of the drawing or the painter himself in my book.
I think it's logical because the book acts about orchids living
nowadays, their morphology, their living conditions, care and not about
died out orchids.
The chapter with the drawing was only for the explanation of the
phylogeny (history of evolution).
I tried a search in the internet to find out more but so far without any
result.
Best regards from Germany, Rudolf

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Tolumnias/Equitants
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:10

Peter: what is the plant growing on? Also, it looks very light green
compared to mine which is quite a bit darker green/red. Comments?
Sharon in Calgary (under the floods!)

From: Gary Hawkins
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] corupt e/m
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:30

I take it you are seeing (like me) sections of the mail with a strikethrough
effect. This problem is caused by the email program you are using not
correctly interpreting the US English character set that the email was sent
in. The strikethrough effect can be removed if your email program allows
text formatting - I use MS Word as my email editor (you can set the option
to use an external wordprocessing program as the text editor from within
most email packages). If you select the 'deviant' text you can then remove
the strikethrough effect, as I have done below.

can anyone explain my e/ms appear like this only from orchid talk?
being an old codger the eyes are going

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Summertime
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:50

I have just bought an air-conditioning unit and installed it in my
greenhouse . Its a 12000 BTU unit . I can work out what that is in calories,
but have no idea of how much practical cooling I shall get " has been
running since yesterday lunch time ( daylight hours),

It was a lucky impulse buy at B& Q " the last one of last year
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: fossil orchids
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:05

Hi Rudolph,
Thanks for trying to find more info on the picture. I have a photo on the
CD
produced by "Orchids and More" (I haven't time to chase up their website
just now but if you're interested . . .(delayed sending this but couldn't
find their site - will send a copy of the pic asap)
The only other I've seen is from a Chinese location but, although it might
well have been an orchid (I couldn't have disproved the assertion!) I
certainly wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion.
I suspect that the reason you couldn't find examples on the internet is
simply because there really aren't any! However, no doubt someone, somehow,
somewhere, sometime, will find one or two. It is just a matter of living
long enough to see a picture!!!
Best wishes from Cheshire UK (what part of Germany are you? - My son is in
Kutenholz near Stade)
John Stanley

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Tolumnias/Equitants
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:40

Polystyrene slabs coated with ordinary cement. Make a paste with water
and cement and 'paint' it over the slabs.
They should flower well, judging by the roots. This particular plant is on
the
slab for about 9 months and is growing a spike which is about 20cms long.
I hope to see some flowers soon.

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Laelia
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:50

This is the first flowering for me of Laelia purpurata rosada. I got it
from Bela Vista Orchids at Newbury two years ago and well worth the wait.
Three flowers each just over 7 inches across and with a very delicate
perfume

From: Ronald Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Summertime
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:05

Is it a reversible Air conditioning unit, Geoff? Now that would be really
useful. We have them in our place here in Cascais and they are very
effective and cheap to run.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: =3DA
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:10

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: another lime-rich substrate- cement!
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:30

Interesting Peter,
Yet another example of a lime-rich substrate.
I wonder if there is something in the chemistry or in the physical
properties
Maybe we ought to involve everyone in a survey of what they use for a given
group of plants
John Stanley

From: Peter Fowler
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Laelia
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:45

From: Dave Blowers/UK/Tesco
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Summertime
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:20

Is it an evaporative cooling or mechanical cooling type? I thought the DIY
models worked on evaporative cooling which wouldn't work so well in a
greenhouse?
I have also been thinking along these lines, as I grow Nepenthes pitcher
plants which need a sharp temperature drop at night, but I tought I needed
a unit with a temperature exhaust to outside, which are all rather
expensive. .
Very interested to know how you get on.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Summertime
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:30

You have lost me Ron " air-con to me, is usually a switch in my car which is
there for parsimonious individuals to turn off so as to get an extra mile
per gallon , but which I leave on always, with the stat set to my preferred
21 deg. C.

I suspect that these household devices are a bit more primitive " there is a
timer for exam-le, but I have to reset it every day when I turn on ( maybe
I
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Laelia
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:40

I too am pleased to say that my cattleyas are growing better than ever
before - maybe they are getting what they really like for the first time !
A few buds at the moment, but no flowers out at present . However I have
some good Vandas and Oncidiniae for my Soc's stand at Newbury, and a few
paphs still just about worth putting on display although now in their third
month.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: another lime-rich substrate- cement!
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:55

Everyone (?) knows that some paphs grow on limestone ; they are even called
the limestone paphs as an alternative to calling them the brachys , the
chinese paphs, etc..
When I went to Thailand to find some of these growing in the wild I was
surprised that I never saw limestone as I understand it ( being a Cotswold
lover, and now a Dorset ,e.g. Purbeck or Portland ) lover - and all of these
have sedimentary limestone . In other words, calcareous solutions , or
sometimes actual marine animal shells or skeletons deposited on the seabed
and slowly solidifi3ed by pressure to form shales and rocks which are soft
enough to cut with a saw when first quarried, and which erode wityh the
weather..

What I saw in Thailand was a possibly calcareous mud in which P,concolor was
growing , and another different rock more like glass than anything else ,
and in crevices in that rock the P.bellatulum was growing.
Only recently have I come to realise that the glass-like substance is Karst
, which may be a metamorphic limestone rock (?) i.e. sedimentary limestone
modified by the action of great heat and pressure when near the earth's
magma ( my speculation , not from any text-book) But it was impossible to
break this using one large lump to thump another ( I had left my "proper"
geologists hammer at home because of weight considerations on the aeroplane)
, and there was never a sign of erosion at all ; some kinds of lichen (?) or
mould made a living where the surface was wet , so presumably they could
dissolve something out of it, but it is difficult for me to imagine that the
mineral content is a reason why these plants grow where they do - I think it
more likely that the required microrhizae ( bet (I've spelled that wrong)
found it good. As for growing these paphs in our limestone - forget it ,
the "soil" pH would be quite wrong - what I found in the crevices - and in
the mud, was below pH7 not above it.

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cork
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:20

Some time ago I seem to remember someone put a note on the forum about a
cork tree plantation.
Could the person contact me direct to save excess mails on the forum which
thankfully is getting more interesting each time I open it.
Gordon.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Laelia.
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:45

Lovely orchid Andy, and I bet you are very pleased with it, but trust you
to beat me at the post. I almost thought of asking if one of our father's
had a bicycle????

It is my plant of Laelia purpurata astro rosada. Purchased I think, last
year at Newbury from Bela Vista Orchids [Peru].

I am very pleased with it and the flower measures six inches across. Mine
also have a delicate perfume. Two flowers, and I can also see three new
eyes just emerging.

From: P G Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Tolumnias/Equitants
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:50

Sharon,
what the plant is growing on you probably have read in my mail of yesterday.
The colour of the leaves can be anything from light green to dark
green/bronze.
There a probably a number of factors which do affect the colour of the
leaves.
Most likely it is genetic and comes from the 'parents' of the cross. Also
the
amount of ligyht and or sun plays a big part in colouring the leaves.
Some of my Tolumnias are also very dark in colour.
Kind regards
Peter from Bloubergstrand

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: another lime-rich substrate- cement!
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:45

Hi Geoff and other limeophiles,
Yes, I agree with all you say except that karst limestone is merely a
weathering phenomenon where solution affects the limestone along joints
(cracks) that are often in a grid pattern. Your observations on the pH of
the soils on some limestones is also interesting and probably not
disconnected with the fact that farmers on limestone bedrock seem to find
the need to lime their soils! However, I understand that liming is
important
for improving the soil texture as well as (or instead of) necessarily
providing more carbonate. The soil in question, of course, may be the
insoluble (often clayey) residue from limestone solution.

Re the toughness' of the Thai limestone. You've sampled the Mesozoic, now
cum'n'move up North and sample our Carboniferous Limestone! You need a
pretty good 'ammer to knock lumps off that and it's not metamorphic, just
indurated more than the feeble stuff you live on!

However, my point remains; do we know whether or not there are orchids that
really 'want' the lime or do they just enjoy the solution residue that may
well be more acidic than you'd expect over limestone bedrock?
Incidentally,
limestones metamorphose to marble which, although 're-textured' by
crystallisation, aren't usually much tougher than the original sedimentary
rock from which they were derived.

Several people in this and other orchid forums seem to swear by lime for
some plants (orchids) but dare I say (without being too politically
incorrect) that there may be a few old wives around? (Perhaps I might cover
myself by saying that I have every respect for old wives but I sometimes
wonder about their tales!)
Cheers
John S

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cochlioda
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:40

I am trying to locate Cochlioda chasei and densiflora. Does anyone know the
whereabouts of these species or any Cochlioda straight hybrids. (preferably
within europe) Regards

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Laelia.
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:15

Since two of you showed me there purpurata I thought
that I would show you mine.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: another lime-rich substrate- cement!
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:55

Interesting stuff John - I am learning !
By the way , gardeners say calcophile, not limeophile don't they ?

As to orchid growers using lime, at one time I used to add Dolomitic lime (
which is a magnesium-calcium compound I believe) to my Paph mixture ; a 2
inch pot to every bucket of bark mix. And then , every six months, if I
remembered, I'd sprinkle a teaspoon of it on the top of each pot.

It washed through of course, and also it accumulated as a sludge in the
bottom of the pots. I don't do it now, and my culture seems no different in
results and quality of plants.

I suspect that its main advantage was in "curing" i.e. raising the ultra-low
pH in pots where repotting was overdue ; a better method in my opinion is
regular re-potting. I do my paphs every 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 years , i.e. I aim
for a 2 year cycle, but if the plant is growing above compost level or the
pot is getting crowded I do it ahead of time, and conversely so if all looks
very well and the compost looks sound.

But IMO the potting frequency for all orchids in organic composts should
depend on the watering frequency ; water twice a week ? repot twice a year.
Water every 2 weeks ? repot every two years. This is something I find I have
got into over my years of growing and it seems right.

From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: another lime-rich substrate- cement!
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:45

I'm talking real gardeners here not orchidophiles pretending to be
gardeners! _grin_

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: another lime-rich substrate- cement!
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:35

Ok! Calcophile. But what if the carbonate is Mg instead of Ca? Magnephile?
Anyway, who says I'm pretending to be a gardener? It's my wife who grows 'em . . . I just build the staging!
Cheers
John

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: limestone - Interesting stuff John - I am learning !
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:20

Hi Geoff,
Aren't we all! (learnin')
(I've just spent today wild orchiding on Anglesey. Bee, pyramidal, marsh
etc.. I guess the Management got the calcu;ations wrong 'cos it was a lovely
day without the usual rain on one of my outings).
Re; your sludge, pH, and washing through . . . so what's the use of
limestone then? Be it cement, Purbeck or Carb? Is it just pH or do some
orchids need a special dose of Ca Mg or what.? There must be someone out
there whose conducted proper experiments with controls. So far Geoff, your
experience is the nearest anyone's given and the results seem pretty
neautral if not negative. Thanks (biut limestone looks nicer than old soggy
rockwool).Wouldn't it be nice to know what's in the soup that dribbles down
trees after rain? Incidentally, I have seen photos of orchids growing on
bare wet limestone in Thailand.
Cheers
John

From: Gary Hawkins
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: limestone - Interesting stuff John - I am learning !
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:40

I'm a relative newcomer to growing orchids, but I am a chemist by training
so I guess I can shed some light on this.

1. Cement contains some things which are good or potentially good for some
orchids - i.e. calcium and magnesium.
2. Calcium appears to be definitely good - I assume this because most books
warn you against watering exclusively with rainwater precisely because it
does not contain calcium.
3. Some growers claim that magnesium is good, and have 'proved' this in
controlled experiments - see
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/orchids/2003071433027630.html.
4. Cement also contains things that might definitely not be classed as
good - e.g. small but significant amounts of calcium cyanide.
5. To understand how watering with solutions of differing pHs changes the
acidity of a medium you do need to know a little bit about what chemists
call 'pH buffers'. These are chemicals that maintain pH at a constant
level. Bark chips would be an acidic buffer at around pH 5 - 6 by virtue of
the plant acids they contain. Limestone, cement or anything like it would
be an alkaline buffer, how alkaline depending on the composition. Tap water
is in general an alkaline buffer due to the presence of dissolved limestone.

It does not follow that if you add a bit of alkaline buffer material to a
lot of acid buffer material you make the pot slowly less acid - buffers
react together, and which ever one there is the most of 'wins' (if there are
any other chemists out there this is a slight simplification, but
essentially accurate). So if you have an acidic pot, as is typically the
case with most orchids with peat / bark mixtures predominating, and water it
with tap water it does not become slowly more alkaline. The pH is
maintained acidic by the buffer effect of the plant acids in the bark and
peat UNTIL these run out, at which point the pot will SUDDENLY become
alkaline to whatever pH the tap water is. Probably not good as the last
thing any plant seems to like is a sudden change in conditions.

By contrast a plant that was potted in a substrate largely consisting of
limestone or cement would therefore be exposed to alkaline conditions
WHATEVER it was watered with, until the limestone dissolved.

6. The nature of most orchids seems to be to like mildly acidic media, and
therefore there will tend to be a continual battle against the eventual
tendency of hard tap water (if that is what you water with), with alkaline
pHs to send the medium alkaline. There is however one exception to this
that people need to be aware of - that's if you are collecting rainwater in
areas with significant pollution - at which point it can be really VERY
acidic. I read that rainwater gathered in central New York can have a pH of
1 - 2, and would thus be equivalent to watering plants with Coca Cola in
terms of applied acidity! Definitely to be avoided.

This is all at the end of the day I guess more a question of art and
experience rather than science, unless you are a professional grower. This
is however I guess a key part of the observation that potting media need to
be replaced depending on watering frequency (that and simple rotting).

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: limestone - Interesting stuff John - I am learning !
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55

Well , I know just a little bit about this - or think I do ( dangerous ,
that...).
The real acid lovers (calcifuges)like rhodedendrons won't - correction -
can't , grow in limey soils ( anything over pH neutral , because they are
unable to take up iron at higher pH levels. There are things one can do ,
compounds one can buy and water on , which solve the difficulty but only
temporarily , and then you have to do it again ( The fallibility of memory ,
I can't quite bring out the word for those compounds, but I'd recognise it
at the garden centre).
The significance of iron is that it is , for example, used in the precursor
which forms the enzyme used to make chlorophyll which is used to make sugars
, and so on and so on... This cascade thing is quite fascinating even when
it's not ( but it is here) the required protein and merely the catalyst or
whatever .
If I knew then what I know now ( and if I were given the opportunity then -
which I wasn't anyway ) that is what I would spend my working life on -
protein cascades - the real secret of life - DNA and genome maps are only
the beginning - this will be the century of the protein chain as last
century was the one of the genome.

But calciphiles can take up iron at high pH numbers. That's the difference.
Orchids in general seem to be calcifuges, with some notable exceptions ,
indeed more British natives ( orchids not peasants )are found on the chalk
than anywhere else . But again , life is not necessarily quite as simple as
that , and whilst the assumption is that the soil is high in pH if on a high
pH substrate ,I have heard anecdotal evidence of local soil pockets showing
lower pHs in such situations.

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Laelia.
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:55

Well isn't it wonderful that our Laelia purpuratas are all doing their stuff at the same time? All different and all beautiful. I wouldn't mind some other clones.

I don't know about the bicycle Rocky but I have a nice Laelia crispa which should be worth a pic in a few weeks! On your marks....

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: limestone - Interesting stuff John - I am learning !
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:45

Geoff,
Is Sulphate of Iron, or Iron Sulphate the compound words you could not
recall?
Ronbow

From: suzy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: limestone - Interesting stuff John - I am learning !
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:10

Reckon bird poo figures in that soup that dribbles down trees, a good
fertilizer and isn't it limey?

From: GEORGE GARTHWAITE
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: limestone - Interesting stuff John - I am learning !
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:10

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: limestone - Interesting stuff John - I amlearning !
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:35

I reckon that is a common fallacy . As a frequent twitcher ( well, I've
never got quite that bad) but at any rate interested bird-watcher , I am
naturally conscious of bird-life wherever I go. I can tell you that I see
perhaps a hundred times as many birds in my ordinary village garden as I
ever saw in any rain forest . Of course , they may be all above the canopy,
but on the rarer occasions I have been in the top of the canopy , e.g. on
the "aerial tram" in Costa Rica, I don't actually recall seeing any birds at
all. No , the answer is quite different. The plants rooted in the ground
take up nutrients in the sap , and some of this is passed out through the
leaf stomata , and get washed down in the rain water . It is the nutrients
in the soil which ar5e in the rain water !
If in doubt about this, see if you can find the proceedings of the European
Congress in London on the web , ( or elsewhere) and look for Prof.Bruno's
paper - he also writes a lot of stuff on this general subject.

Reckon bird poo figures in that soup that dribbles down trees, a good
fertilizer and isn't it limey?

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: limestone - Interesting stuff John - I am learning !
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:35

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Newbury
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:20

Another super Newbury Show this year - maybe best ever I thought. I spent
most of the day there, and I don't think I saw everything I wanted to - one
"problem " is that everyone goes, so I can't walk 20 yards without meeting
an old friend and either stopping to chat , or pressing on because I really
must get to somewhere or other , and then, when I get home , regretting that
I did not bump into that person again and so missed the chance of a chat.
And I'll bet that several familiar names from this group were there, and I
don't know their faces and so walked past them. Maybe we should have a
web-site page for our mug-shots ?

And I never did get round to a second look at all the Society stands, with
the aim of standing back and looking at the design and arrangement - on the
first look I am just seeking unusual and/or especially well grown plants -
and there were in both categories.The exception of course was my own Soc.
Stand, which ( boast) took the prize for best Society stand ; I can't claim
any credit as I had no part in its arrangement or design or even build-up .
Bournemouth is a large Soc. With a lot of members, and no shortage of
workers, so when I joined after my move last year , they are glad to have my
plants for shows, but don't need, ask for, or even want, my effort - (which
to be honest , is double-edged) . Bournemouth also took best hybrid ( a big
white Laelia, and best species - Paph stoneii - and again neither is mine -
although some of my plants did collect rosettes - P. Hayward Booth and
P.Houghtoniae in particular.

The trade get better every year too - much less of what some members of this
group complain about at London shows - all the dealers selling the same
plants they all went and fetched from Amsterdam last week.

I bought some interesting stuff from Japan via a German dealer ( Darwinaras
- which I suppose used to be called Vandofinetias ? or maybe they are
Neofinetia crossed with something which is now not a Vanda ?) also a very
interesting Sediria hybrid from the same source.

At previous shows I have been collecting some of the newer Cattleya and
Phal hybrids from the Taiwan people "Orchis" - they seem to have the latest
and brightest in these genera, and although I bought some more this time I
was rather disappointed with the plants when I got them home and unwrapped
them - all of the roots seem dead, and I get the impression they have been
wrapped up in moss and stuffed into a pot ( as they always do - but have
been like this for rather too long . If they do it one day, and the plants
are on sale within a week or so , and then unwrapped, the roots are still
alive ; but if left for maybe several weeks, they will have died , which is
what I think happened here. However the cattleyas will grow a new set of
roots on the new growth , and none of them has started yet , i.e. all the
canes/bulbs are mature , and phals will produce new roots at any time if
properly treated, so all these plants have now been put together,
repotted, watered once, and will now only be sprayed until new roots are
seen.

Chris Channon ( Deva Orchids) with a couple of the lads from Writhlington
School on his stand to help him , had some superb Odont hybrids - I ought to
say Oncidiniae only some folk get confused if I do ; I bought a nice
Colmanara Wildcat "Ruby" with two very good branched spikes, a Dergomora - I
have forgotten the grex name but the cv is Stars and Stripes - a yellow and
brown job - with about three or 4 flowering leads, and a couple of other
multi-spike, multi-lead plants , all of which are now repotted into Perlite
and are in the hydroponic system . If anyone else buys any of these
excellent plants DO REPOT immediately, one of these had a 2inch pot
containing the original moss plug the seedling had been grown in ( yes the
plastic pot was still there) ; around this was a solid root ball from a 4
inch pot of peat/fine bark,( pot removed) and all had been put in a 1 litre
pot and filled up with good looking coarse bark , sufficiently firmly so
that it was not obvious that this was a recent potting operation. I washed
all this stuff away, and used coarse washed perlite, with some stakes and
ties to hold the plant firm ; but if I had not repotted ,and just stood it
on the bench and watered it, I don't think it would too well.

From: Jean-Paul Pichardie
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newbury
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:55

Dear Geoff
I THINK my wife and I saw you early on Saturday morning with your wife but our eyesight is far from good. I called after you but you did not answer and I remained in doubt. My deepest apologies. I did not see you later during the early afternoon. The show was remarkable--particularly because of the outstanding Society stands. I noticed the stonei with three spikes and the Houghtoniae in the Bournemouth stand--though I didn't know the latter was yours. I had ordered in advance so I wasn't disappointed in the choice of plants. We shall certainly go back since it is an easy crossing and drive from Rouen (by the way the Transmanche ferries Dieppe-Newhaven are convenient, uncrowded, and dirt-cheap).
Yours
Jean-Paul

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newbury - class of 2005
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:55

Hi Geoff,
Talking of Newbury, on two or three occasions we passed within inches of each other but you were in deep conversation and so I didn't interrupt to say "Hello".
Like the mugshot idea . . . but it'd surprise a few members to reveal that we aren't all schoolboys but more advanced youths! I suppose we also ought to wear identifying badges at events like Newbury but I, for one, feel such an idiot walking around with my name around my neck. Reminiscent of when we were infants with gloves tied with a lace that went up one sleeve and down the other. Maybe that habit'll will return eh? In any case, sucking yoghurt through one of two holes in the foil lid is a skill I wouldn't wish to be recognised by (forgot the spoons didn't we! ?
Agree; the show was excellent. It was my first time there but certainly not the last. It is so useful to have met dealers from mainland Europe; inspires confidence should weI wish to buy from the by mail order in the future.
See you next year there (what do you mean, you'll be sitting your GCSEs?)
Start the ball rolling with your mugshot.
Best wishes
John

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newbury
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:20

Geoff,
Your report of the Newbury show is most interesting although I am not familiar with many, infact most of the plants you mention. Newbury is a bit too far for me now and in these times. However, what did interest me was your suggestion of a mug shot site for I have for some time thought that it would be nice to be able to put a face to the names and often thought of mentioning this. I suppose we all have a mental picture of how we imagine a name looks and we all know, or should know you if we saw you. Any way, I'm game if any one else is.
Ronbow.

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Newbury Show
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:20

I was also there and, as well as Geoff and a couple of other friends
from our first Thailand trip, I also met Betty Garton, an old friend
from Madeira - you should definitely not miss visiting her when you're
there. I agree with Geoff that we should have an agreed meeting point -
if not in the Orchid tent, than how about for morning coffee say,
between 11 & 11.30 am in the food marquee by the Bandstand?
It was a great show, the best that I have seen for some time and will be
on my calendar permanently.
Geoff, was that stand (with the pictures of Writhlington School) not the
school stand then?
Ron

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Newbury Show
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:30

> I agree with Geoff that we should have an agreed meeting point -
> if not in the Orchid tent, than how about for morning coffee say,
> between 11 & 11.30 am in the food marquee by the Bandstand?

That's a great idea - I think we might cause a traffic jam if we all meet
in the Orchid tent! I managed to speak to Norma, but no one else although I
spotted some in the distance - Geoff, Dennis, Chris and Callum to name but
a few.

Mug shots are OK, but we did have some in the early days with a view to
meeting up at the RHS London Show and to be honest I didn't recognise
anyone... Mind you, I spent the entire morning wandering around that show
sporting a large badge reading "Orchid-Talk" and Dave Blowers was the only
one of the group who spotted me! A number of us finally managed to meet up
in the tea room, which was most agreeable.

From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newbury
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:30

Geoff, I couldn't agree more. The suppliers had a wonderful selection this
year and I spent at least twice what I usually do and acquired some good
plants. Also I heard the name Chong-Yee mentioned but didn't see the face. I
met up with plenty of other people though.

Many thanks to Don Smallman as he was very active in bringing in new
nurserymen especially from the continent. They in turn brought in a wider
selection of species (and hybrids by the sound of it). I also, as usual,
found some good plants on Malcom Perry's stall.

My particular favourite plant (though there were many) was Oncidium
phymatochilum (the spelling of which was bizarrely changed to phaematochilum
by the end). It had a massive froth of individually attractive and jointly
sensational flowers.

From: Dave Blowers/UK/Tesco
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Newbury
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:45

I am glad someone else was taken with the Oncidum - it really caught my eye
as well. I have been looking for suppliers, in Europe but not found anyone
suitable - only in the states. Anyone spots one or a flask and I'd love to
know.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Vanda coerlea
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:30

Someone in the recent past was enquiring about Vanda coerlea. At Newbury there were many for sale but Lawrence Hobbs seemed to have the best. He will post. Tel. No. 01342 715142. regards

From: Sharon Williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: s/h plants
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:00

Hello Geoff: could you please tell me which plants you grow successfully in hydroponics? I have a new Vuyls. Melissa Brianne 'Shady Lady' and a Psychopsis Kalihi that I was wondering about switching out of large bark and styrofoam they were bought in, into s/'h.
thanks
Sharon in Calgary

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] s/h plants
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:40

Vuylstekearas will grow very well in hydroponics, as do most of the
thin-leaved South American plants having Oncidium , Odontoglossum etc in
their parentage . I have also grown Vandas , Dendrobiums , Zygos and a lot
of species of many genera and done well . Phals and cattleyas , I'm not
sure. Paphs did reasonably well, but not quite as well as in conventional
culture. Cymbids - I tried a few, and it took a long time - 2 or more years
-for them to get established but then they did very well too.

Psychopsis I have never tried in the system , in fact I don't have any at
present.

Hello Geoff: could you please tell me which plants you grow successfully in
hydroponics? I have a new Vuyls. Melissa Brianne 'Shady Lady' and a
Psychopsis Kalihi that I was wondering about switching out of large bark and
styrofoam they were bought in, into s/'h.

From: Andy Mckeown
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: s/h plants
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:00

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Newbury- the German vendor...
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:40

Sorry Dennis, can't remember - it was not a familiar one ( and I think I
know most of them). The plant labels are not informative either ; the
Vandirea ( Sedirea japonica x Vanda amesiana) has no suppliers name . The
Darwinara Blue Moon ( neofinetia x ???) has a very helpful label all in
Japanese, plus a "New Wold Orchids.com" label.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: help please ?
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:45

Can anyone suggest a source for a 50 metre roll of 1.5m wide 50% shade
cloth ( yes I know Simply Control and a thousand others will sell it to me
at the same price per metre as if they were selling me 1 metre - and charge
postage too , and I can get it at my local gartden centre that way too - but
I expect it a bit cheaper than that taking the whole roll.

And has anyone used the narrow aluminium strip type externally ? I have used
it internally, but not so far outside, and additionally I'm not sure how to
anchor it against wind without risk of ripping.

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] help please ?
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:50

Geoff, try PLANTS PLUS, tel 01278 786938. He has given me some good deals. Regards

From: aeranthes
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: aluminium strip
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:50

Yes Geoff, I have it on the roof and sunnyside of my greenhouse and I am delighted with it. I bought it from Malcolm Moody who also stocks Dynarok. His email address is: LaeliaM@aol.com He goes under the name of MAM Horticulture ( I think that's right). It is surprisingly easy to fix as it is heavier than the green netting and clings to the glass. Malcolm told me to use bulldog clips to fix it and they actually do work and the shading hasn't moved at all from the outside even through two winters. It doesn't lift in the wind either like other netting. Jean

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] help please ?
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:50

Geoff,
LBS have it at £72. per 50 metre roll. Tel Sales 01282 873333. Sales @ lbs-group.co.uk or custserv@lbs-group.co.uk.
Ronbow.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] help please ?
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:10

Geoff, I am not familiar with the aluminium strip type shading that you mention, not seen it in adverts or shops ect. I would be grateful if you, or any one else could gen me up. Ronbow.

From: John W Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RE: Newbury- the German vendor...
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:20

Hi Geoff/Dennis,
The orchid dealer you are trying to recall might be http://www.orchideen-kopf.de/deutsch.html
They are from Bavaria.
Of course, there may be other German dealers whose name(s) I didn't notice but they list Sedirea japonica in their price list (but not in their image album). Experience with the plants we bought are that their plants are superbe but the labelling may include misprints/spelling errors
This particular firm were on the carpark-side of the marquee, just before the emergency side exit towards the top end (ie, the opposite end from the unglazed greenhouses).
Hope this is of use
John Stanley

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] aluminium strip
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:15

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] help please ?
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:55

In Portugal, I use thick, black fish netting. It seems to be quite
effective.
Ron

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
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September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2005 Archived Messages

June 22-30