January 8-14 2005 mailing list messages

2005 Archived Messages

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From:
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Digest 2005 Volume 2
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 00:10

Hi Rocky,
I never really noticed any frost on the leaves. I have seen frost on the
grass growing near these plants, so I know it is well be low 32 F. When I
lived in Wisconsin many years ago. I used to leave my Cymbidiums out until the
night temperatures got down to about 26 F. I used to have pictures of them
sitting on an open deck with snow on them, not sure where they are now. I can't
remember ever seeing a frost bitten leaf on these plants. They grew and bloomed
super.

From: Max Redman
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Zygo's
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 04:50

Ron,
The flower you showed is most certainly a Zygo. It appears to be a hybrid
and out here there are literally dozens of different hybrids. I have a
number of them and they grow in the same conditions as do the cymbidiums.
A good open compost and they like being kept moist. Not wet! They will take
quite cold temperatures as where mine grow they are outside and the
temperature during the winter can get down to zero and even lower at times.
Someone asked whether they get frost on them and the answer is yes.
I do not have an actual photo of where they grow but in the enclosed
picture, they are growing on the bench on the left hand side of the photo.
They are gross feeders and very easy to grow. You obviosly are doing the
right thing with yours as it is looking good.

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Geoff Hands
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 05:15

I'm delighted to report that Geoff and Joyce are fine. I emailed Geoff's
son who tells me they are in Sri Lanka but luckily missed the tsunami
completely. They have had to change their itinerary and are now in the
capital Columbo - they will be home in a few days.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Map search.
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 10:10

Those of you that know me will know that I am always telling jokes and enjoy a good laugh, and pulling peoples legs.

Because my mind is on other more serious matters of late I did not read Dennis's rjr@bobscomp.com: that closely.

So, Dennis, there was I keying in 'Midsommer Malham' on my 'Autoroute' and wondering why the message told me that it could not be found!!!! Then I said to Mary I wonder where it is as the show is tomorrow!!!!!

Now of course we will watch the TV PROGRAMME to see if there are any glaring mistakes.

From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Tsunami, Geoff Hands
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:40

I did not mean to alarm members of the list (the message was meant to go straight to Tricia, but got wrongly addressed...)

If you haven't done so already, please consider making a donation to the relief effort at www.dec.org.uk. I know many orchid lovers will have travelled to the region, and will know that the people of the areas affected do not deserve what has happened to them.

From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Last Night's Winds
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 12:00

I hope the gale force winds which were raging across much of the UK have left everyone's greenhouses intact.

I happened to be admiring our newly decorated nursery at 3am (first baby expected on Tuesday), and noticed that a polycarbonate pane had been blown off one of the windward facing vents of the greenhouse. I was concerned that rain would get in and short the electrics. I was also worried that the wind would take advantage of the weakness in the greenhouse to rip off more panels. But there was no way I was going to try to replace the pane in those hazardous conditions.

So I had to do some emergency repair work to at least try to keep out the bulk of the rain. This was done in the dark and wet with a black plastic bag and some garden wire. After I came back in, of course, I realised that I should have taken some of the more precious plants with me. But I wasn't about to go back outside!

The bag is still there this morning, and so are the rest of the panels, so everything looks okay at least from the outside. Hopefully much of the rain (which was effectively horizontal anyway) was also prevented from entering the greenhouse. I will venture outside later in the day to assess the damage properly, and will have have to spend some of the day cutting a spare pane to size and refitting it.

The other fear was that the gas heater might have been blown out by the wind (it didn't, again thankfully). Luckily it was a mild night, and as I maintain an intermediate greenhouse, it would have been okay even if the heating had gone.

So I think we got off lightly this time. I have no idea where the wind took the loose panel. Probably to somebody's garden in the next street?

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Midsommer Show
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 13:50

Hello Dennis,
I can't see any thing about a midsummer orchid show in my TV times schedule. ITV 1 for Jan 8 th is Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. 8.00-9.00.I wonder why a midsummer orchid show would be held in January. Perhaps you meant June. Ronbow.

> Who in the UK will be going to the Midsommer Malham Orchid Show? It's on > Sunday 9 Jan at 8.30 pm on ITV 1.
> How many errors will there be?
> Regards

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Zygo
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 14:05

So glad Geoff and his wife are safe and well. I didn't know that's where
they were going. How lucky to be safe!
Yes Ronbow your wonderful plant is a Zygopetalum. We have had quite a bit of
mail about Zygos in recent days as two of us have been asking for help and
it came through loud and clear - Keep it cool! Good luck with it.
Chong-Yee - many congratulations on the baby - hope all goes well. Let us
know when it happens. Yes we had hight winds - still have but so far no
damage but my son who is in Newcastle has just phoned to say he has 14
damaged panes in his greenhouse and they are a strange moulded shape! I hope
he can get replacements but it won't be that quick. Fortunately the few
orchids he has are indoors. - Jean

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Stamp detectives.
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:25

Can any of you possibly give a Genus name, or even a specie name to the orchid displayed on the stamp.

I seem to recognise the shape of the two lower sepals and the short lip, but cannot put a name to it. As to the colour, well it is on a stamp!!!

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Zygos.
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:35

Well my friends from far flung places, collectively all of us that have added our 'five peneth worth' of information on Zygopetalums and have sure laid down a few home truths. In the future I would hope that Zygo owners will be able to keep their plants for many years.

The most interesting point for me was that both Max and Mike grow their Zygos out doors. It looks as if Max has his under a sort of net cover.

Both talk of temperatures down to zero, so I am quite sure that those of us who grow our Zygos in our COLD greenhouses can sleep soundly even if the temperature drops to shall we say the low forties, as mine does.

One point that I would like to make is this. It's not a frost that damages tender plants in the garden. It's the sun shining on the frozen water 'crystals'. They act like prisms/magnifying glasses and the suns rays through them burns the foliage. In the old days, if frost was seen on tender plants, the head gardener would get his staff to wash the frost off with a watering can or a hose before the suns rays hit the plants.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Dendrobium speciosum.
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 19:10

I have a nice plant of Dendrobium speciosum, the Rock Lily, as you Australians call it.

Any special culture for it regarding the winter temperatures, and any tips to help it flower well.

From: Lisa Thoerle
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Last Night's Winds
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 19:35

How strong were your winds? Nothing to rival the storms that did so
much damage at the arboreta a decade or so ago, I hope?

--Lisa, who remembers the damage at Kew (I think it was Kew) from a
visit soon after

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Last Night's Winds
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 00:55

Winds? What winds? We just had one!
Only four ridge tiles blown off
One car windscreen somewhat cracked and bent by three of 'em, one presumably
still airborne.
Bespoke modifications to bonnet and car-roof
No damage whatever to greenhouse or orchids inside
I put it all down to using my electronic weather station with its remote
sensor in the orchid house;
it's been warning me of tropical storms for weeks!
(Glad I don't live in Florida where I believe the air really moves).
John Stanley
Cheshire UK

From: Max Redman
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Dendrobium speciosum.
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 05:30

Hi Rocky.
Den speciosum grows wild here in Australia and is mostly found growing on sandstone cliffs and rocks.It grows in full sumshine and can grow very large.
Some years ago I saw a plant on my wife's uncles farm which was over 40feet in length and about 20 feet in height growing on a sandstone cliff face. Unfortunately I never bothered to take a photo as they were/are so common.It would have been impossible to count the number of flower spikes or flowers .
The people who specialise in growing them use a variety of mixes but all insist on maximum available light.
The temperatures vary from about 40C in the summer down to zero in the winter. Dependant on where they are growing. They are not particularly heavy feeders but do appreciate a good feed every month or so.
You are right when you say that I use some sort of net. It is actually shade cloth over the whole area and gives shade of about 40%. However there is no shade on the sides so the plant get early morning full sun.
Hope that this will help a little.
Max.

I have a nice plant of Dendrobium speciosum, the Rock Lily, as you Australians call it.

Any special culture for it regarding the winter temperatures, and any tips to help it flower well.

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: stamp
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 09:35

Rocky, Re the stamp it's difficult to tell which orchid it is from the photo
but I think it looks very much like a bulbophyllum. I have one without a
name which looks very much like it and I've looked in 'The Cultivated Orchid
Species' and a few blubophyllum look very similar in shape. Unfortunately I
have found quite a number of other species that it could be - so we're not
much wiser from my comments I'm afraid but I'm continuing my bulbophyllum
search. As my book tells me bulbophyllums are widespread in that region my
bet is on it being one. - Jean

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Bulbo
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 09:55

Roger could the stamp photo be of Bulbophyllum ambrosia? It comes from China but as they are widespread they could be in Guine Buisse too for all I know! Have a look here: http://orchidspecies.com/bulbambrosia.htm

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: seedlings update
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 10:10

Yesterday I decided to have a look at the seedlings
deflasked on Wednesday, and a horrible thing had
happened!

The mould had returned to the seedlings with a
vengeance! The agar had now turned black and the same
furry white mould was covering everything visible.

I decided to get them out of the plastic container
where they were. Wash them off with tepid tap water.
Wash all the agar off and put them back on a bigger
container with fresh sphagnum moss, then cover the
whole thing with cling film and tape it around.

I also decided to take about half of them to Laurence
Hobbs, as he had kindly offered to try and 'save' some
of them! When he saw them we both agree that they
didn't have much of a chance (damage was quite bad),
but the is going to try and see if in his greenhouse
they can do ok.

As I said to Laurence, I'm not holding my breath for
them, although it would be nice if at least a couple
of them are strong enough to make it through.

From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] stamp
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 10:50

My first thought on seeing the stamp was also Bulbophyllum - but I don't know any which have blue flowers!

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Stamp.
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:40

At least I am pleased that you all came up with the same answer, and it was one that I was thinking of.

In case any of you are interested, I used to collect Orchid Stamps and that is why I offer my assistance to a certain stamp dealer who needs the various orchid stamps to be given a name.

The reason why I stopped collecting some years ago reflects some of your comments about the modern stamps.

From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: [OrchidTalk] Re: Midsommer Show
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 22:35

It's an episode of Midsomer Murders, with a storyline based on an orchid collector. The synopsis follows:

"Life in the Midsomer villages appears to be a long round of fêtes and flower shows. With the occasional murder. This time, DCI Barnaby (John Nettles) and his sidekick Sergeant Scott (John Hopkins) investigate nasty goings-on in the genteel Midsomer Malham Orchid Society. They're passionate about orchids, but it seems one of them is taking their obsession too far. First to die is a retired teacher who used to find rare orchids and illegally sell them. But why was she killed? And why does local handyman Harry Rose (Matt Bardock) keep popping up at the crime scene? By the time corpse number three is found, you'll be convinced he's guilty of something."

Putting aside the orchid references, I found parts rather offensive, to be honest - particularly the reference to the orchid smuggler Jimmy Fong as a "Chinaman". It's a term which I consider derogratory and even racist. There is no reason the more accurate and modern term "Chinese person" should not be used in this day and age.

Note that as long ago as 1982, the Concise Oxford Dictionary defined "Chinaman" as an "archaic" or "derogratory" term for a Chinese person.

From: "WOOD, Michael (WG)"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Midsommer Show
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:05

I broke the habit of a lifetime and watched it ........ at least most of the
plants looked real .....

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Midsommer Show
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:25

I saw and enjoyed the programme, as an easy watching who-done-it and never
even noticed the terminology. To me, a Chinaman is the same as a Chinese
man, i.e. a man from China, or possibly a Chinese ship. The term for most of
us, has no derogatory significance. Like beauty, it ia all in the eye (or
mind) of the beholder.

Secondly, this is an orchid group and I don‹t think that we should be
introducing other subjects. There are other places for that.

Returning to the subject of the orchid aspect of the programme, isn‹t it a
pity that orchid houses are always presented on TV as always being full of
flowers? I wishŶŶŶŶŶ..

From: Jon Loose
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cymbidium seed - The Orchid Seedbank Project
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:20

With regard to the post we had a little while back about request for seed,
there is an interesting seed exchange project on the internet:

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Midsommer Murder.
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:35

I did enjoy the programme, as I normally do, but as usual I identified the wrong person for the murders.........but then I normally do!!! I tend to like those murder mysteries that have just two actors.....one gets murdered and you have to guess who done it!!!

I believe that Paphiopedilum Rothschildianum has long green leaves....... and is not one of the mottled leaved varieties.

If I am correct then it is a very bad mistake by the makers. But I still enjoyed the programme.

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: I survived....
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:05

I am just home from Sri Lanka where I did a 3 week tour - and missed
the tsunamis by a matter sheer luck.
Its just a matter of not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I was in the wrong place ( three of them at least ) or was booked to
be in them , but fortunately never at the wrong time. I was in
Trincomalee on Christmas Eve - and that was devastated on Boxing Day ,
by which time I was 100 miles away and 4000 ft up. Then I was booked to
go to Yala two days after the tragedy and stay at a lodge to go on
safari , and the lodge was totally destroyed - eyewitnesses amongst the
50% of the staff and guests who survived , said that waves were higher
than the new restaurant and watching tower , which was 65 feet high,
and after the waves there was nothing there. Both Trinco' and Yala are
on the East coast and got the full impact of the 7 waves. And a few
day later- about 2nd January - I was to go to a hotel at Galle near
the southern-most point of the island , but it had been so damaged that
it was closed for guests , in fact it was inaccessible to ordinary
vehicles for a time as the road bridges had washed away.
Elsewhere in the island, life carried on much as normal , although I
met many people who had lost friends or loved ones - our driver/guide
, the Director of the local Tours Agency who had arranged the trip ,
etc.
I am surprised to find that I am mildly traumatised - tend to wake up
frequently through the night thinking about it - perhaps due to the
endless exposure to it whilst there even though not in the actual
places. But I'll get over that now I'm home again and other interests
can take my mind off it.

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Smoke bombs/fumigators.
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:40

I may be late in joining this thread and perhaps its all been said -
but I have another 350 messages to plow through, and if I wait until
I've read them all I will have forgotten this one...
So at the risk of repeating what others have said, I think that smoke
bombs in general are banned ; and certain chemicals most useful for
this kind of thing are banned too - but all of this applies to
domestic/amateur use . Many of them are still available for
professional use. However I have always found that they are of maximum
use for showing just how leaky and badly sealed your greenhouse is -
the smoke stays in for such a short time its a wonder it does anything
useful. Maybe it doesnt.
Where smoke is useful (in theory anyway) is flying insects ; no use at
all for creepy crawlies , unless you can maintain a smoke so thick as
to risk killing your plants too..But nibbled roots does not say slugs
and snails - try slaters/woodlice. The torch at night trick is good
to discover what it is. But woodlice are hell to deal with , although
they too - like slugs and snails will not happily cross copper. Try a
spray with a copper sulphate fungicide - yes I know its not supposed to
work with insects but when it dries, it leaves a minute film of copper
salts which will be a deterrent - until it gets washed off.

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Cool house orchids.
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:55

> Roger, First of all the word cool means different temperatures to
> different growers.

> From: Roger Grier
> To: Orchid Club
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:48 PM
> Subject: [OrchidTalk] Cool house orchids.
>
> Can anyone please give me some information regarding Cool growing
> orchids.
>

And to masdevallia growers, cool means 5 degrees C - ones grown at
10-12 are intermediate.....

From: Ron Newstead
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Free Orchid plants
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:45

Sadly, I did not know him until I was informed of his death by a mutual
acquaintance, but there was an old gentleman who was an orchid enthusiast
living in the country near the town of Mafra, not far from Cascais,
Portugal.

Now his house (and greenhouse) contents are being cleaned out so that the
house can be put on the market. I was invited to go over and help myself
which I did on Sunday but there were far more plants than I could cope with
as my greenhouse is already rather full. His collection is varied but
consists mainly of Vandas. If anyone is interested, I can provide the
details.

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Digest 2005 Volume 2
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:20

By the way you canm get frost on the grass at temperatures well above
32 degrees F. This why the "ice warning" on my car starts to flash when
the temperature falls to 3 degrees C = 37 or 38 degrees F . In fact ,
listen to the weather forecast on TV and you will hear things like "we
expect temperatures to dip below 5 degrees C and there is a slight
risk of frost as a result..."

Do not confuse frost and ice . And remember that the freezing point of
plant sap is not the same as the freezing point of water
Geoff
On 7 Jan 2005, at 19:11, Mijo730@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Rocky,
> I never really noticed any frost on the leaves. I have seen frost
> on the grass growing near these plants, so I know it is well be low 32
> F. When I lived in Wisconsin many years ago. I used to leave my
> Cymbidiums out until the night temperatures got down to about 26 F. I
> used to have pictures of them sitting on an open deck with snow on
> them, not sure where they are now. I can't remember ever seeing a
> frost bitten leaf on these plants. They grew and bloomed super.
>
> Oregon Mike

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Dendrobium speciosum.
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:35

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Chris Packham.
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:20

On Southern BBC TV last evening at 7:30pm, Chris Packham showed a few of our native orchids, in the company of Rosemary Webb.

And did I hear correctly when the warden of Chappets Copse said that the Sword leaved helleborine, or was it the Common White Helleborine, had no pollen!!??

Couldn't see much to ENCOURAGE anyone to take up any interest in our wild orchids. In a nutshell......bloody awful.

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] I survived....Phew!
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:00

Hi Geoff,
Glad to hear you're safe and missed the worst physical aspects of the disaster.
Can we take it that you're wife's OK too?
There was quite a bit of concern here at Orchid Talk.
I suppose that, in a perverse kind of way, it must be a privilege to actually have experienced the worst natural disaster on record at first hand although, of course, we'd have all preferred it not to have happened.
No doubt, eventually, we'll learn about the orchids you saw.
Best wishes
John Stanley

From: Antonio Ariza
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Dendrobium speciosum.
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:50

I really love Den. speciosum and would like to have all of the
subspecies, but that will have to wait until I get a bigger greenhouse.
There are, however, a couple of problems associated with this species I
think I should mention. As has already been pointed out, they really
need as much light as you can provide (it's nearly impossible to scorch
their leaves in Britain), which is a bit of a problem up here in
Scotland. Also, and I don't think this has been mentioned before, it's
difficult to find adult plants or at least divisions of adult plants. By
this I mean plants that are over 10 years old, since this species only
starts to bloom once it reaches this age. If you bought a relatively big
plant with several mature-looking canes you might still have to wait a
long time if it turns out to be a 4- or 5-year old plant grown from
seed. On the other hand, divisions from mature plants, even if they only
have 3 or 4 canes, will bloom reliably if the conditions are right. I
got this information from a good friend of mine who's very well know in
orchid circles up here in Scotland and who worked at an Australian
orchid nursery for many years (Alex Bartley). I think I also read the
same information in N. J. Rentoul's "Growing Orchids Book Three: Vandas,
Dendrobiums and Others" or in "Book Four: The Australasian Families".

From: "WOOD, Michael (WG)"
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: new species in UK ??
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:20

I was interested to read of an entirely "new" orchid which has been
discovered in the UK - on Holy Island ( Lindesfarne ?? ) ..... the story
appeared in the "famous" Scottish sunday paper the Sunday Post ......... it
isn't that impressive by all accounts - but they expect local tourism to
increase considerably due to the number of "tickers" ??? whom are allegedly
the orchid worlds version of "twitchers" ?? can't say i've heard of them
personally ....

From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: [OrchidTalk] Re: Last Night's Winds
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:35

Pretty strong - described in various news reports as the worst storm in 40 years. Flooding in Carlisle. 5500 homes still without electricity. More to come, apparently: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4164613.stm

>Chong-Yee,
>
> How strong were your winds? Nothing to rival the storms that did so much damage at the arboreta a decade or so ago, I hope?

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Jon, Geoff and Cymbid seeds
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:55

Thank you very much Jon for the url re the Cymbidium seeds. I've had a look and will send it on to the person in South America who contacted me about them.
So glad you and your wife are back and safe Geoff, what a narrow escape! Too close for comfort! - Jean

From: Dr Chong-Yee Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Midsommer Show
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:30

>My Dear Chong Yee,
>Firstly, I think that you are being over-sensitive.
>I saw and enjoyed the programme, as an easy watching who-done-it and never=
even noticed the terminology. To me, a Chinaman is the same as a Chinese=
man, i.e. a man from China, or possibly a Chinese ship. The term for most=
of us, has no derogatory significance. Like beauty, it ia all in the eye=
(or mind) of the beholder.
>Secondly, this is an orchid group and I don't think that we should be=
introducing other subjects. There are other places for that.
>Returning to the subject of the orchid aspect of the programme, isn't it a=
pity that orchid houses are always presented on TV as always being full of=
flowers? I wish=8A=8A=8A=8A=8A..
>
>Ron

I guess this was what people were saying about the word "nigger" a couple of=
hundred years ago? I would never dream of using this term to refer to a=
black person, but I suppose that a couple of hundred years ago, it had no=
derogatory significance to "most" people?

I cannot help the fact that most of my orchid-growing companions are of the=
older generation - and can hold old-fashioned ideas. Most of these I find=
charming and harmless, and are things I admire and indulge in myself. But I=
do feel a responsibility to highlight instances where the world has moved=
on (in relation to orchids, for example, conservation issues, the "right"=
to collect plants from the wild, the "good old days" when it was possible=
to import these, etc).

If you do not trust my judgement, or that of the editors of the OED, then=
please have a look at this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman):

Chinaman can mean:
* An archaic derogatory term for a male person from China
* A wrist spin ball bowled by a left handed bowler in cricket. See=
Left-arm unorthodox spin

The term is considered to be highly pejorative by Han Chinese and when=
addressed directly to one will be interpreted as an ethnic slur.

It arose during a difficult and painful period in Chinese history, when=
severe political and economic instability near the end of the Qing Dynasty=
forced many young men to seek their fortunes abroad; they usually intended=
to return home after earning some money. As a result, Chinatowns in the=
19th century had far more men than women."

As for the justification that (supposedly) most people would consider the=
term to have no derogatory significance, do you consider that it is proper=
for a term to be used to refer to a community - whether or not it is in=
widespread use - without any regard to the sensitivities or preferences of=
that community?

If so, I'd better start brushing up on the masses of archaic and derogatory=
terms that the wonderfully inventive Brits have coined over the years for=
their fellow inhabitants of this planet! (please nobody complain that=
"Brits" is derogatory!).

=46inally, although this in my opinion is not of importance to the issue at=
hand, the term "Chinaman" simply cannot serve its intended purpose as a=
description of someone of the Chinese race. I am a Singaporean, as I hold=
Singapore citizenship; I am also ethnically Chinese as my grandparents=
emigrated from the southern part of the Chinese mainland to Malaysia and=
Singapore to start new lives there. In turn, I have come to the UK to be=
educated and to make a living (it's also easier to grow orchids here - but=
I'll leave that contentious topic for another time). My connection to China=
is therefore an ethnic, cultural, and to a lesser extent linguistic, one -=
but I am in no sense "from China".

Would you therefore describe me as a Chinaman (even if you considered it=
polite to do so)?

P.S. I agree that the post was off-topic, but this is not the first time it=
has happened - and it will certainly not be the last. However, I do not=
propose to continue this thread further; if anyone wishes to correspond=
further, please email me directly.

From: Lisa Thoerle
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] new species in UK ??
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:20

http://www.berwick-advertiser.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=970&ArticleID=911785

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: New Orchid.
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:55

My few orchid friends and I have trudged around the countryside over the past thirty years or more looking quite intently at many 'different' types of Helleborines.

To say the least, there are many hybrid swarms and a very odd specimens even in my locality, so I can't get too excited over this new discovery.

I will say one thing though......some of the hybrids/varieties that my friends and I have seen are absolute beauties.

Maybe this year I will make a fresh start and visit some of my old haunts with my digital camera and show some of the beauties that I find.

It's a pity that I can't record 'fragrance' as the 'Marsh Fragrant' [Gymnadenia conopsea variety densiflora] which grows in the damp parts of the New Forest has a fantastic fragrance, something like cloves and carnations mixed together. Roll on the Summer!

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fragrant Orchid.
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:50

Sorry I made a silly mistake about the name of the type of Fragrant Orchid found in very rare numbers in the New Forest.

I called it Gymnadenia conopsea variety densiflora, when I should have keyed in, variety 'borealis'.

Only about 4 or 5 inches tall. Grows in with the heather tufts and also moss clumps. Can be very difficult to find.

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: Dendrobium speciosum.
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:10

> Hi Geoff,
>
> I don't think this has been mentioned before, it's
> difficult to find adult plants or at least divisions of adult plants.
> By
> this I mean plants that are over 10 years old, since this species only
> starts to bloom once it reaches this age.

It is of course difficult or impossible to buy seed-raised plants of
any species ( and a good many hybrids too ,) which are of flowering
size. It's a simple matter of economics. We will pay say £10 for a nice
seedling, maybe 2 years from flask, but will not pay say £30 for the
same thing at FS. But what does it cost to keep the plant in the
professional greenhouse ? 30 years ago David Stead told me ten
shillings a year (50 pence) which must be £2 or £3 now . So, 8 years at
£2.50 = £20 , plus the £10 it started off as. And how many plants will
be lost along the way ? Even pros do not flower every plant they
raise...if they lose even 5% in 8 years ( good going I would have
thought) that puts the price up accordingly.

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Re: the orchids of Sri Lanka! etc.....
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:45

> Hi Geoff,
> Glad to hear you're safe and missed the worst physical aspects of the
> disaster.
> Can we take it that you're wife's OK too?
Yes , we are both well, thank you

The orchids were a great diisappointment . The National Botanic Garden
is at Kandy, and the orchid plants on display amounted to one Phaius
tankervilliae - rather tatty , a few Thai dendrobium hybrids, even
fewer Vandas , and none of them in good condition.

At Hakgala , there is a collection of alleged endemic species (
orchids) and native orchids - endemic means native here and nowhere
else . I was most anxious to see it if only because I could not think
of any Sinhalese natives never mind endemics , and I dreamt of
discovering , or at least introducing to the western world, a new paph
- after all P.druryii grows only a couple of hundred miles away in
India, and there was once a land bridge. But they told me "no orchids
to see"

The Sinhalese are lovely people. Very friendly . Almost everyone under
the age of say 35 speaks English - it is taught to all as the first
"other " language, and schooling is now compulsory up to 16 years of
age . Villagers often stopped us to chat and perhaps exercise their
vocabulary, and I was twice asked to explain the meaning of words (
"dividend" and "compromise" ) which they found difficult.
But, the standard of technical expertise seemed lower than I expected
, and articles I read in the newspapers ( Sinhalese papers published in
English , quite serious ones including a financial paper ) whinged that
everything had slid back since the British left , e.g. one school which
used to produce a few pupils who went on to University each year now
had none, and their science labs were last refitted in 1933 !
What I saw of the diabolical roads , and absence of infrastructure
even in the capital , led me to suspect that in the botanical gardens
the ordinary gardeners knew how to grow the ordinary vegetables and
flowers ( all the ones we know , and a few more ; I went around
Victoria Park - 100 acres of grass, shrubs and flower beds - in "little
England"- otherwise Nuwarya Eliya at 6000ft up in the hills, with the
head gardener (Kew trained), and I was able to name 90% of what I saw ,
and had promises of seeds being sent to me, of the unfamiliar things ,
in return for sending him some modern varieties of things like
Petunias, which are outside his reach in terms of availability and
maybe also budget .).
But Kew trained turned out to mean that he had spent a term there , no
more : and this was the head man. I suspect that the ordinary gardeners
had no training at all. There is a Government research station
concerned with the economically important crops, but perhaps little or
no level. training at a lower level. Of course a lot of this is only my
guesswork.

But there is a lot to see away from the beaches .I did not know that
they had a written history dating from 2nd century BC , or that they
were building as high as 9 storey palaces at the same time ( remains
there to be seen....) but I digress.

The best way of helping all of the Asian peoples is to go there just as
soon as they have done some rebuilding. You will have a great holiday,
and an experience of a lifetime even without another tsunami which is
rather unlikely for the next 300 years anyway.

From: jeanmarian.lewis
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: varied
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 09:35

So many orchids around your area sounds wonderful Rocky. We have quite a lot
around this area as well. I found a photograph of the one you mentione here
if people would like to see what it looks like:
http://www.pharmanatur.com/Gymnadenia%20conopsea%20var.%20borealis.htm

Chong-Yee I do see you point and agree that it is sometimes used in a
derogatory fashion. I videoed the program and watched half of it last night
but it must be in the second half of the program which I shall view later
today. I think it depends on how it was said - rudely or ignorantly as some
people wouldn't know it was not the correct name to use. I have a feeling
that most people in the U.K. actually really like Chinese people and I'm
sorry you were hurt and angry about it but don't take it to heart as I'm
sure none of your orchid friends are like that. There were people who
thought I was a bit odd because I don't come from around here! When I was
little anyone living in a different tow was definiately suspect! I think we
have all improved since those old days and have T.V. and the Internet to
show that people are just people wherever they were born.

Lisa - thank you so much for the url - I have 'saved' the article, printed
it out, and sent the url on to my son who lives in that area. I asked him if
he saw it and he said he went to Lindisfarne to take photos but in his words
"I didn't see any tw*ts - sorry I mean twickers". You can see what he thinks
about us! Not really as he has two orchids of his own. - Jean

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: I can see a spike!!!
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:45

This will be the fourth time that one of my orchids
provides me with a 'home-grown' spike, rather than a
spike that was there when the plant was bought and
then blossoms.

I first noticed the spike on this oncidium Von Holm
(I'm not sure if it has been registered with that
name) on saturday, but it was so tiny it could be
either a spike or a new growth. Today, I confirmed
it's a spike. It is now about an inch long, and the
reason I'm so excited about it is because that
particular oncidium smells very strongly of chocolate
(yes, as well as an orchidaholic, I'm a chocaholic!).

The other orchids that have blossomed after the spike
they came with withered are a Phal. Brother Pico
Vallezar (I can't find this one in the RHS register
list either), an Encyclia Cochleata and a Den. Emma
White (with buds opening just right now).

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: cool growing orchids
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:30

Have justr been browsing Jay Pfahl"s wonderful orchid encyclopaedia (
on line`) which is absolutely the best there is for species and if you
think you know a better one, look at this first and then tell me abput
the better one ( I am not holding my breath whilst I wait ).URL below.

However, I am amused by his definition of cool growing orchids - night
temperature 58-60 F ......

From: Dr.C-Y Khoo
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: New Arrival!
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:15

We are proud to announce the arrival of our baby boy, born 13th January 2005 at 02:49 hours, at the Royal Hampshire County Hospital, Winchester. Baby weighed 7 lb 11 oz, and both baby and mum are doing well.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cool growing orchids
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:25

I did recently used this website to check on a couple
of new orchids I have adquired and wondered at his
definition for the temperature ranges too!!!

I wondered about the temperatures and the fact that
they are night averages (which are usually even lower
than day averages!).

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cool Man really cool!
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:35

I also like his excellent web-site, by the way, why haven't you got your spellchecker enabled??? Smack on the wrist from darkest Totton.

I have copied his temperatures so that our other members can see what we are on about.

Temperature Icons;
Cold = 2500 Meters and Up, 50`F to 55`F night average - - Cool =1800 to 2500 Meters, 58`F to 60`F night average

Warm = 1000 meters to 1800 meters, 68`F to 75`F night average - - Hot = Sea Level to 1000 Meters, 75`F to 85`F

They do seem to be rather strange to say the least, but then as Jay is an American I guess they must have four sections to our three, and that is just good old fashioned humour.

From: Mark Macklam
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Background information on Onontiode, please
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 18:55

I have a lovely plant now in bloom on my windowsill which I picked up a
year ago as a raffle prize. The tag describes it as an Ondontiode, Oda.
Paphoedoe x [Durham Castle x Ingmar]. My few books on orchids do not
list any Odontiode, so I am guessing that it must be some sort of
cross.
I would like to no more so any information from anyone will be much
appreciated. Had a quick web search this morning but the potential
information sites I found were all in German.
Thanks in advance

hello back after a long virus ,of the pc type.looking forward to lots of orchid chat...john winkworth

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: seedlings
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:15

I think I mentioned that I had bought some phal seedling flasks from a
German nursery. I thought you may be interested in seeing what I got
for my money. Two pictures, one of those from flask 1 , as planted out
in a prop tray , standard size - like about 14 inch x 8 inch , and the
other of the second flask similarly planted out but showing the lid
sealed on. This is the paphanatics technique I have previously
explained - they stay sealed up until they are growing . The damp
compost evaporates water which runs down the walls and recirculates.

I got about 30 seedlings in each flask, maximum leaf-span is almost 5
inches, and quite a lot of 3-4inch ones. I am well pleased
Geoff

From: John Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] New Arrival!
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:35

Congratulations!
An extra pair of hands to help with the watering of the orchids eh!
(Enrol him on the Orchid Talk panel quickly, before he loses interest!)
John Stanley

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] New Arrival!
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:05

PS Must be some sort of virus going around. My
sister-in-law had hers 7 weeks ago, and a very good
friend of mine only 6 weeks ago!

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: [OrchidTalk] Orchid photos
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:00

The recent posts about Jay Pfhal's brilliant site prompts me to point out
another excellent site for photos, all taken by Eric Hunt:

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: baby
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:05

Many congratulations to you and Irene, Chong-Yee! How wonderful - a baby boy. All the best to all three of you! Keep us posted on his progress and maybe a photo at sometime? - Jean

Mark if you can't find anything in English about the plant you have why not find it on the German site and run it through an online translator? I have done that several times in the past and while the translation isn't perfect it is good enough to understand what they are saying.

From: aeranthes2
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: species
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:10

Thank you for sending on the url for the species website Tricia! What a
wonderful start to the day sitting here eating toast and browsing through
such beautiful orchid photographs. Jean

From: dennis READ
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Cool Growing
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:00

Roger's original question was '' do we know any good dealers for cool growing orchids ''. I stand by my original advice -- specify your growing conditions when talking about orchids and do not rely on the many definitions doing the rounds.
It transpired that his mihimum night temperature was 45F, but you can find orchids that will withstand that temperature. Regards

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] New Arrival!
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:10

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Background information on Onontiode, please
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:20

Odontoglossum are mostly white - a few yellow, and some spotted. Often
large flowers , even 4 inches - although that would be exceptional. But
nice shape, habit, flower numbers etc.
But there are no red odonts.
Cochlioda is an allied genus, with very small flowers - 1 inch would be
big - although sometimes with a dozen or more flowers. but one of the
sp
ecies is a brilliant solid roed ( C.noezliana). So this was crossed
with O.crispum to give red , large flowered Odontiodas.
What you have is several generations later , with much further crossing
, which so dilutes the genes that only rarely are they red at all.

BTW Cochlioda likes it a bit cooler than Odontoglossum - itself a cool
orchid. Unlikely to flower well unless it goes down to at least 10
degrees in the winter.

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] seedlings
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:20

Hello Geoff, Very interesting pictures of seedlings.I am curious, how old are the plants and which method do you consider to be best. Ronbow.

I think I mentioned that I had bought some phal seedling flasks from a German nursery. I thought you may be interested in seeing what I got for my money. Two pictures, one of those from flask 1 , as planted out in a prop tray , standard size - like about 14 inch x 8 inch , and the other of the second flask similarly planted out but showing the lid sealed on. This is the paphanatics technique I have previously explained - they stay sealed up until they are growing . The damp compost evaporates water which runs down the walls and recirculates.

I got about 30 seedlings in each flask, maximum leaf-span is almost 5 inches, and quite a lot of 3-4inch ones. I am well pleased
Geoff

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Cool Man really cool!
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:45

He also lives in a rather warm place, right down the Florida Keys ;
when I travelled that route last year I thought of paying him a visit
and choosing some plants ( to be sent later when I had got home and
organised the CITES etc ) but decided against because anything he does
well with in his nursery is too hot for my conditions.

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Orchid photos
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:55

New to me this one Tricia . I have just had a look at it , and yes it
has excellent pictures - better than some of Jay P's. The lack of info
is something of a drawback. But I am sure it will be useful.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: British Wild Orchids.
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:15

Had a trip out into the New Forest this afternoon. Quite cold and overcast, but very rewarding.

From: E Sewards
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] New Arrival!
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:45

> We are proud to announce the arrival of our baby boy, born 13th January
> 2005 at 02:49 hours, at the Royal Hampshire County Hospital, Winchester.
> Baby weighed 7 lb 11 oz, and both baby and mum are doing well.

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Picture of Ascocenda Yellow Glory "Six Stars"
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:25

Quite a complex hybrid - no less than 8 parent species - its a 5th
generation hybrid. The asco bit ( curvifolium) accounts for only 1/8th
of the genetic background - V.sanderianum is 53% , and so on down to
V.tricolor 1.5%.

A first flowering - and its taken about 12 years from the flask to get
this far. Maybe my light etc here is better than I have had before , in
fact I'm sure it is. As you may see it is semi-terete ( quite a lot of
V.teres via V.Miss Joaquim in the cross , and that is a difficult one
to flower here. But I'll hope for a better spike later in the year.
probably in summer , it will come a good yellow - it is perhaps a bit
better colour than here appears , as I had to take the snap with my
compact where the flash etc .is not as easily controlled as it is on my
Nikon.
What makes it nice ( for me) now, is that lovely contrasting lip.
Geoff

From: Ron Bower
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Calender.
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:55

At the beginning of last year a member send a link that enabled the printing of a calendar. I did this and it was rather nice with orchid picture for each month. I would like to do it again but cannot find it. It may not be applicable to 2005.I would be grateful if who ever it was could do it again. Best regards to all.
Ronbow.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31